Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[DCZards]

But there are plenty of players with tremendous aggressiveness & confidence who are no good at all. Thinking you are as good as Michael Jordan is not the same as being as good as Michael Jordan -- & in fact it can make you worse.

Austin Rivers would be the textbook example of that. He has all that kind of "mental" stuff you point at, but he's a terrible player.

Moreover, there's also a natural tendency to under-estimate guys who aren't flashy; that too is part of what I think you are doing w/ Porter.

Yes, aggressiveness should not be mistaken for effectiveness. But a lack of aggressiveness can sometimes be counterproductive. People here rave about Otto's efficiency. And, yes, going 8 for 12 with 1.0 turnover is efficient.

But I think the Zards would be better off with the Otto who goes 12 for 18 with 1.5 turnovers and puts pressure on defenses by hunting for shots (maybe even forcing shots) from time to time. That Otto needs to improve his ability to put the ball on the floor and create for himself.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

But there are plenty of players with tremendous aggressiveness & confidence who are no good at all. Thinking you are as good as Michael Jordan is not the same as being as good as Michael Jordan -- & in fact it can make you worse.

Austin Rivers would be the textbook example of that. He has all that kind of "mental" stuff you point at, but he's a terrible player.

Moreover, there's also a natural tendency to under-estimate guys who aren't flashy; that too is part of what I think you are doing w/ Porter.

Yes, aggressiveness should not be mistaken for effectiveness. But a lack of aggressiveness can sometimes be counterproductive. People here rave about Otto's efficiency. And, yes, going 8 for 12 with 1.0 turnover is efficient.

But I think the Zards would be better off with the Otto who goes 12 for 18 with 1.5 turnovers and puts pressure on defenses by hunting for shots (maybe even forcing shots) from time to time. That Otto needs to improve his ability to put the ball on the floor and create for himself.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01/splits/2018

Otto Porter's highest usage was the month of February. He had a very good offensive rating and he averaged over 19 points.

Guess who did not play at all in the month of February?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2018/splits/

Wizards averaged 29 assist in the month of February. By percentage it was their winningest record month at 8 and 4. Different people generated more assists than one guy holding on to the ball. That's when the media kept insisting they were not better without John Wall.

[NatP4]

I would love to sign Yogi Ferrell. So much better than Austin Rivers. Great fit alongside Sato.

[Shanghai Kid]

But there are plenty of players with tremendous aggressiveness & confidence who are no good at all. Thinking you are as good as Michael Jordan is not the same as being as good as Michael Jordan -- & in fact it can make you worse.

Austin Rivers would be the textbook example of that. He has all that kind of "mental" stuff you point at, but he's a terrible player.

Moreover, there's also a natural tendency to under-estimate guys who aren't flashy; that too is part of what I think you are doing w/ Porter.

Yes, aggressiveness should not be mistaken for effectiveness. But a lack of aggressiveness can sometimes be counterproductive. People here rave about Otto's efficiency. And, yes, going 8 for 12 with 1.0 turnover is efficient.

But I think the Zards would be better off with the Otto who goes 12 for 18 with 1.5 turnovers and puts pressure on defenses by hunting for shots (maybe even forcing shots) from time to time. That Otto needs to improve his ability to put the ball on the floor and create for himself.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01/splits/2018

Otto Porter's highest usage was the month of February. He had a very good offensive rating and he averaged over 19 points.

Guess who did not play at all in the month of February?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2018/splits/

Wizards averaged 29 assist in the month of February. By percentage it was their winningest record month at 8 and 4. Different people generated more assists than one guy holding on to the ball. That's when the media kept insisting they were not better without John Wall.

8-4 is decent, but how do you reconcile 2017 when the Wizards had the 2nd best record in the league over a two and a half month period and were considered the hottest team in the league. Wall was player of the month and led the way.

[Dat2U]

Why even argue with CCJ? He's never getting off the bash Wall boat. To him, almost anyone is better. From Eric Maynor to MCW to whatever free agent off the street that has caught the glimmer of his eye. Theres no point in expecting any rational analysis out of it.

[DCZards]

Otto Porter's highest usage was the month of February. He had a very good offensive rating and he averaged over 19 points.

Guess who did not play at all in the month of February?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2018/splits/

Wizards averaged 29 assist in the month of February. By percentage it was their winningest record month at 8 and 4. Different people generated more assists than one guy holding on to the ball. That's when the media kept insisting they were not better without John Wall.

Yeah, we were 8-4 in February and feeling pretty good about ourselves. Some fans were climbing on the “We’re better without Wall” bandwagon. Then the rest of the regular season happened.

The Zards were 7-13 between March and the end of the season. (Wall played in 4 of those games. The team went 2-2 in them.)

So what happened after February? Well, teams began to better defend “everybody eats” and game plan for our new and different starting PG (Sato).

That stretch effectively ended the “We’re better without Wall” mantra...at least for most Zards fans.

[NatP4]

Yes, aggressiveness should not be mistaken for effectiveness. But a lack of aggressiveness can sometimes be counterproductive. People here rave about Otto's efficiency. And, yes, going 8 for 12 with 1.0 turnover is efficient.

But I think the Zards would be better off with the Otto who goes 12 for 18 with 1.5 turnovers and puts pressure on defenses by hunting for shots (maybe even forcing shots) from time to time. That Otto needs to improve his ability to put the ball on the floor and create for himself.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01/splits/2018

Otto Porter's highest usage was the month of February. He had a very good offensive rating and he averaged over 19 points.

Guess who did not play at all in the month of February?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2018/splits/

Wizards averaged 29 assist in the month of February. By percentage it was their winningest record month at 8 and 4. Different people generated more assists than one guy holding on to the ball. That's when the media kept insisting they were not better without John Wall.

8-4 is decent, but how do you reconcile 2017 when the Wizards had the 2nd best record in the league over a two and a half month period and were considered the hottest team in the league. Wall was player of the month and led the way.

Said it all along, that was when Wall was still playing defense. He quit after the trade deadline completely. That was as good a wizards team as we had seen in the John Wall era. Why? Because they were playing a shortened 9 man rotation, giving Kelly Oubre starters minutes, and subbing him in for Morris at the 6 minute mark and playing a heavy amount of Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter-Gortat. Morris also didn’t suck then. They were GS lite, absolutely running teams out of the gym.

Here’s a split on Oubre in 2016-2017, when he played 10- 20 minutes, he was -13.3, when he played less than 10 total minutes, he was -30.9. When he played more than 20 minutes, he was a positive net. In January of 2016-2017, he was playing 24 minutes a night with a +6.8 net rating shooting 37% from 3, in February, that dropped to 20 minutes a night and a -3.3 net rating only shooting 20% from 3. What happened with the team at that time? Well Brooks decided to play Jason F’ing Smith at PF and abandon small ball, they also traded for Bojan and Brandon Jennings.

I don’t know where I was going with this, but they were really good pre trade deadline and ruined it completely.

[nate33]

Otto Porter's highest usage was the month of February. He had a very good offensive rating and he averaged over 19 points.

Guess who did not play at all in the month of February?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2018/splits/

Wizards averaged 29 assist in the month of February. By percentage it was their winningest record month at 8 and 4. Different people generated more assists than one guy holding on to the ball. That's when the media kept insisting they were not better without John Wall.

Yeah, we were 8-4 in February and feeling pretty good about ourselves. Some fans were climbing on the “We’re better without Wall” bandwagon. Then the rest of the regular season happened.

The Zards were 7-13 between March and the end of the season. (Wall played in 4 of those games. The team went 2-2 in them.)

So what happened after February? Well, teams began to better defend “everybody eats” and game plan for our new and different starting PG (Sato).

That stretch effectively ended the “We’re better without Wall” mantra...at least for most Zards fans.

I agree with you that the "everybody eats" success faded over time as the Scouting Report came out, but it's worth noting that Otto Porter hurt himself in the March 10th Miami game and was a shadow of himself for the next month. Otto's poor play and limited minutes also contributed to that poor stretch in March/April.

[NatP4]

And tanking to avoid Cleveland, and not having a backup guard or any quality backups for that matter with Oubre fading and Sato obviously being a starter. A lot of fatigue.

They still played at a 47 win pace IIRC.

The topic shouldn’t be “are the wizards better without John Wall” it should be: “why the F*** is Satoransky on the bench while trey Burke Brandon Jennings ty Lawson Ramon sessions Marcus Thornton disgrace the game of basketball?”

Sato literally averaged 10-6-4 on 53/50/90 shooting splits with 173 assists to 56 turnovers as a starter with a 123 offensive rating, +5.1 net.

And we benched him for the playoffs

[NatP4]

Imagine the national media saying “why the hell is Tomas Satoransky not playing 30+ minutes a night??? This dude shot over 40% from 3 in every single month of the season, that’s not a fluke. In February, he averaged 13 points 7 assists 3.5 rebounds on .713 TS% with a 133 offensive rating in only 29 minutes a game because Brooks STILL wanted to use a no point guard lineup!!! Can you believe that???”

“Imagine wall and Satoransky on the court together, the guy is a 6’7 and shoots 47% from 3, why is it one or the other?”

[DCZards]

I agree with you that the "everybody eats" success faded over time as the Scouting Report came out, but it's worth noting that Otto Porter hurt himself in the March 10th Miami game and was a shadow of himself for the next month. Otto's poor play and limited minutes also contributed to that poor stretch in March/April.

Good point Nate. It's also worth noting that Wall played hurt almost the entire season and that he played more minutes than he should have. These things certainly affected his play...on both ends of the court.

[dckingsfan]

Otto Porter's highest usage was the month of February. He had a very good offensive rating and he averaged over 19 points.

Guess who did not play at all in the month of February?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2018/splits/

Wizards averaged 29 assist in the month of February. By percentage it was their winningest record month at 8 and 4. Different people generated more assists than one guy holding on to the ball. That's when the media kept insisting they were not better without John Wall.

Yeah, we were 8-4 in February and feeling pretty good about ourselves. Some fans were climbing on the “We’re better without Wall” bandwagon. Then the rest of the regular season happened.

The Zards were 7-13 between March and the end of the season. (Wall played in 4 of those games. The team went 2-2 in them.)

So what happened after February? Well, teams began to better defend “everybody eats” and game plan for our new and different starting PG (Sato).

That stretch effectively ended the “We’re better without Wall” mantra...at least for most Zards fans.

I agree with you that the "everybody eats" success faded over time as the Scouting Report came out, but it's worth noting that Otto Porter hurt himself in the March 10th Miami game and was a shadow of himself for the next month. Otto's poor play and limited minutes also contributed to that poor stretch in March/April.

Porter hurt, Beal wearing down and deciding to do hero ball (and not succeeding) and Oubre's huge funk... saying that "everybody eats" success faded is just not the case. And then we didn't improve when Wall came back - so there is that...

Do we want to go back to the Wall pounds the ball offense?

[DCZards]

And we benched him for the playoffs

Sato benched himself for the playoffs...he was a deer in the headlights. Hopefully, the experience he gained as a starter last season will carry over into this season. Overall, he did play well in that role.

Sato has earned the right to play more...maybe not 30 mins a game though. More like around 25 mins.

[Dark Faze]

It's less about everybody eats and more about "do these rotations make sense?"

Because generally, if the rotations are smart, the outcome is good. The starting lineup I believe (tell me if I'm wrong) was generally a good unit. And then you'd get certain other lineups that just tanked.

So I'm of the mind of, "Brooks pls, for the love of god" rather than place the blame on any specific kind of play right now.

I feel more strongly about that now given our roster. I really think it's a 50+ win roster with the right rotations/coaching.

[NatP4]

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[NatP4]

It's less about everybody eats and more about "do these rotations make sense?"

Because generally, if the rotations are smart, the outcome is good. The starting lineup I believe (tell me if I'm wrong) was generally a good unit. And then you'd get certain other lineups that just tanked.

So I'm of the mind of, "Brooks pls, for the love of god" rather than place the blame on any specific kind of play right now.

I feel more strongly about that now given our roster. I really think it's a 50+ win roster with the right rotations/coaching.

100% agree. Put the right players on the floor. I could care less about the Xs and Os at this point. Good process=good outcome.

[Dat2U]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porteot01/splits/2018

Otto Porter's highest usage was the month of February. He had a very good offensive rating and he averaged over 19 points.

Guess who did not play at all in the month of February?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2018/splits/

Wizards averaged 29 assist in the month of February. By percentage it was their winningest record month at 8 and 4. Different people generated more assists than one guy holding on to the ball. That's when the media kept insisting they were not better without John Wall.

8-4 is decent, but how do you reconcile 2017 when the Wizards had the 2nd best record in the league over a two and a half month period and were considered the hottest team in the league. Wall was player of the month and led the way.

Said it all along, that was when Wall was still playing defense. He quit after the trade deadline completely. That was as good a wizards team as we had seen in the John Wall era. Why? Because they were playing a shortened 9 man rotation, giving Kelly Oubre starters minutes, and subbing him in for Morris at the 6 minute mark and playing a heavy amount of Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter-Gortat. Morris also didn’t suck then. They were GS lite, absolutely running teams out of the gym.

Here’s a split on Oubre in 2016-2017, when he played 10- 20 minutes, he was -13.3, when he played less than 10 total minutes, he was -30.9. When he played more than 20 minutes, he was a positive net. In January of 2016-2017, he was playing 24 minutes a night with a +6.8 net rating shooting 37% from 3, in February, that dropped to 20 minutes a night and a -3.3 net rating only shooting 20% from 3. What happened with the team at that time? Well Brooks decided to play Jason F’ing Smith at PF and abandon small ball, they also traded for Bojan and Brandon Jennings.

I don’t know where I was going with this, but they were really good pre trade deadline and ruined it completely.

You like CCJ have no idea what your talking about.

That run was mainly on the surge in play of Markieff over a 2 month span. Gortat played well too. But once Markieff went from playing like an all-star to being the regular Markieff once again our play fell off.

Imagine running a replacement level PF out there and suddenly getting all-star quality play for 25 games or so. That's basically what happened.

You put a PF that's willing to defend next to a rim protector at C and suddenly perimeter defenders can look competent.

[NatP4]

8-4 is decent, but how do you reconcile 2017 when the Wizards had the 2nd best record in the league over a two and a half month period and were considered the hottest team in the league. Wall was player of the month and led the way.

Said it all along, that was when Wall was still playing defense. He quit after the trade deadline completely. That was as good a wizards team as we had seen in the John Wall era. Why? Because they were playing a shortened 9 man rotation, giving Kelly Oubre starters minutes, and subbing him in for Morris at the 6 minute mark and playing a heavy amount of Wall-Beal-Oubre-Porter-Gortat. Morris also didn’t suck then. They were GS lite, absolutely running teams out of the gym.

Here’s a split on Oubre in 2016-2017, when he played 10- 20 minutes, he was -13.3, when he played less than 10 total minutes, he was -30.9. When he played more than 20 minutes, he was a positive net. In January of 2016-2017, he was playing 24 minutes a night with a +6.8 net rating shooting 37% from 3, in February, that dropped to 20 minutes a night and a -3.3 net rating only shooting 20% from 3. What happened with the team at that time? Well Brooks decided to play Jason F’ing Smith at PF and abandon small ball, they also traded for Bojan and Brandon Jennings.

I don’t know where I was going with this, but they were really good pre trade deadline and ruined it completely.

You like CCJ have no idea what your talking about.

That run was mainly on the surge in play of Markieff over a 2 month span. Gortat played well too. But once Markieff went from playing like an all-star to being the regular Markieff once again our play fell off.

Imagine running a replacement level PF out there and suddenly getting all-star quality play for 25 games or so. That's basically what happened.

You put a PF that's willing to defend next to a rim protector at C and suddenly perimeter defenders can look competent.

I literally said “Morris didn’t suck” in that stretch. I do know EXACTLY what I’m talking about. Wall was 18th in DRPM at the trade deadline, and dropped to 58th for point guards in the 20 some games after all star break. Brooks abandoned the small ball lineup that saved the season for us after the terrible start and replaced it with Jason Smith at PF, which was horrible. Bojan also cut into oubre’s minutes.

Just so you know, Wall had a sub 110 d rating in every month but March and April, where it skyrocketed to 114, he also had a negative net rating in both.

Why don’t you try this thing called “not throwing personal insults at anyone not slobbing on John Wall” and do some research. Oh yeah, that right, it’s actually everyone else’s fault that walls defense fell off.

Imagine actually thinking one players play is the lone reason for a team that won 18 of 21 turning into a sub .500 team after the trade deadline, and having the audacity to claim other people have no clue what they’re talking about.

[verbal8]

EG must be mad that Philly got his favorite "player'.

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[verbal8]

I hadn't realized that Philly got Muscala. Makes a lot of sense to move Holmes in that case.

The Sixers get some cash and build up a little goodwill with Holmes' agent.

EG must be mad that Philly got his favorite "player'.

Read on Twitter

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