Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[Ruzious]

You make a good point - If I phrased it as "struggles to make the top 50 argument due to health" would that make more sense? Can we agree he wasn't a top 30 player last year? I didn't have him as a top 30 player the year before either.

Two seasons ago, a healthy Wall averaged 23 pts. on 45% shooting, was third in the NBA in assists, led the NBA in total steals, shot 80% from the FT line AND was third team all-NBA. Kinda hard to argue that he wasn't a top 30 player that year.

(He did have far too many TOs though. )

At a minimum I have the following as better that year:
Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, Rudy Gobert, James Harden, Jimmy Butler, Stephen Curry, Nikola Jokic, Russell Westbrook, LeBron James, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Davis, Damian Lillard, Clint Capela, Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving, Andre Iguodala, DeMar DeRozan and Draymond Green. And I wouldn't supermax all of these players.

The others I have we could fight over - I don't have him breaking the top 30 that year.

And this year - I think we could agree - he didn't sniff top 50. Well, maybe we don't agree on that either. But maybe he will improve over the next couple of years.

Curious as to why you have Iggy instead of Thompson up there amongst the stars.

[dckingsfan]

Two seasons ago, a healthy Wall averaged 23 pts. on 45% shooting, was third in the NBA in assists, led the NBA in total steals, shot 80% from the FT line AND was third team all-NBA. Kinda hard to argue that he wasn't a top 30 player that year.

(He did have far too many TOs though. )

At a minimum I have the following as better that year:
Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, Rudy Gobert, James Harden, Jimmy Butler, Stephen Curry, Nikola Jokic, Russell Westbrook, LeBron James, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Davis, Damian Lillard, Clint Capela, Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving, Andre Iguodala, DeMar DeRozan and Draymond Green. And I wouldn't supermax all of these players.

The others I have we could fight over - I don't have him breaking the top 30 that year.

And this year - I think we could agree - he didn't sniff top 50. Well, maybe we don't agree on that either. But maybe he will improve over the next couple of years.

Curious as to why you have Iggy instead of Thompson up there amongst the stars.

No so much stars as those of equal value to John. But we have been over this - I clearly undervalue John from your perspective (at least this is my perspective). I see John as a player that isn't consistently a top 25 player (I was trying to make the point that I didn't think he was a top 20 player in his best season).

But we have him now - he has the supermax and I think it would be very difficult to trade him. So, now I have to hope that he starts playing like a top 20 player and not a top 50 player

[Ruzious]

At a minimum I have the following as better that year:
Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, Rudy Gobert, James Harden, Jimmy Butler, Stephen Curry, Nikola Jokic, Russell Westbrook, LeBron James, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Davis, Damian Lillard, Clint Capela, Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving, Andre Iguodala, DeMar DeRozan and Draymond Green. And I wouldn't supermax all of these players.

The others I have we could fight over - I don't have him breaking the top 30 that year.

And this year - I think we could agree - he didn't sniff top 50. Well, maybe we don't agree on that either. But maybe he will improve over the next couple of years.

Curious as to why you have Iggy instead of Thompson up there amongst the stars.

No so much stars as those of equal value to John. But we have been over this - I clearly undervalue John from your perspective (at least this is my perspective). I see John as a player that isn't consistently a top 25 player (I was trying to make the point that I didn't think he was a top 20 player in his best season).

But we have him now - he has the supermax and I think it would be very difficult to trade him. So, now I have to hope that he starts playing like a top 20 player and not a top 50 player

You probably have me mixed up wtih another poster, but that's ok. We'll agree to disagree on Iggy. Last season, I don't think Wall was even top 50, but the season before, I think he was probably towards the end of the top 20.

[NatP4]

What type of assets do we have to add to Morris and Rivers to send them to outer space?

[Baller1234a]

Would you guys consider a Wall/Lowry swap?

Due to salary.

[queridiculo]

Would you guys consider a Wall/Lowry swap?

Due to salary.

No.

[Wizardspride]

What type of assets do we have to add to Morris and Rivers to send them to outer space?

[nate33]

Curious as to why you have Iggy instead of Thompson up there amongst the stars.

No so much stars as those of equal value to John. But we have been over this - I clearly undervalue John from your perspective (at least this is my perspective). I see John as a player that isn't consistently a top 25 player (I was trying to make the point that I didn't think he was a top 20 player in his best season).

But we have him now - he has the supermax and I think it would be very difficult to trade him. So, now I have to hope that he starts playing like a top 20 player and not a top 50 player

You probably have me mixed up wtih another poster, but that's ok. We'll agree to disagree on Iggy. Last season, I don't think Wall was even top 50, but the season before, I think he was probably towards the end of the top 20.

Yeah. Wall has his best season in 2016/17. He averaged 23 points and 10.5 assists with a pretty efficient ORtg of 111. He posted a career low in percentage of shots taken between 10 and 22 feet and had the second best TOV% of his career. He ranked 1st in the league in assists and steals. He ranked 7th in MVP shares. He led his team to their best win total in 39 years and they got the furthest they've gotten in the playoffs in the modern era (Game 7 of the second round).

I think Wall was pretty comfortably a top 20 player that year. He was by no means in that elite tier of top 8 players (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Davis, Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Curry) but he was in the mix with the next tier of really good guys (Giannis, Lowry, Derozan, Klay, Draymond, Gobert, Butler, Lillard, Thomas, Beal, Jokic). Even if you put him at the tail end of that group, he's still around 18th, and an argument could be made for something in the 10-12 range.

[nate33]

Would you guys consider a Wall/Lowry swap?

Due to salary.

Probably not.

I'm definitely willing to trade Wall, but we need more than just salary relief. There has to be one promising pick/prospect in the transaction. Indeed, rather than a guy like Lowry (very good, but on the wrong side of his career), I'd prefer a crappy filler contract plus a legit young asset. Something like Deng + Ball would make more sense for the Wizards.

Trading Wall would be a rebuilding move. You can't rebuild without assets. If we got no young assets, then we'd just end up as a treadmill team because Beal, Porter and co. are good enough to win 37 games.

[DCZards]

Yeah. Wall has his best season in 2016/17. He averaged 23 points and 10.5 assists with a pretty efficient ORtg of 111. He posted a career low in percentage of shots taken between 10 and 22 feet and had the second best TOV% of his career. He ranked 1st in the league in assists and steals. He ranked 7th in MVP shares. He led his team to their best win total in 39 years and they got the furthest they've gotten in the playoffs in the modern era (Game 7 of the second round).

I think Wall was pretty comfortably a top 20 player that year. He was by no means in that elite tier of top 8 players (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Davis, Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Curry) but he was in the mix with the next tier of really good guys (Giannis, Lowry, Derozan, Klay, Draymond, Gobert, Butler, Lillard, Thomas, Beal, Jokic). Even if you put him at the tail end of that group, he's still around 18th, and an argument could be made for something in the 10-12 range.

Don't tell dckings that. He doesn't think Wall was a top 30 player in 2016-17.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah. Wall has his best season in 2016/17. He averaged 23 points and 10.5 assists with a pretty efficient ORtg of 111. He posted a career low in percentage of shots taken between 10 and 22 feet and had the second best TOV% of his career. He ranked 1st in the league in assists and steals. He ranked 7th in MVP shares. He led his team to their best win total in 39 years and they got the furthest they've gotten in the playoffs in the modern era (Game 7 of the second round).

I think Wall was pretty comfortably a top 20 player that year. He was by no means in that elite tier of top 8 players (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Davis, Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Curry) but he was in the mix with the next tier of really good guys (Giannis, Lowry, Derozan, Klay, Draymond, Gobert, Butler, Lillard, Thomas, Beal, Jokic). Even if you put him at the tail end of that group, he's still around 18th, and an argument could be made for something in the 10-12 range.

Don't tell dckings that. He doesn't think Wall was a top 30 player in 2016-17.

Opinions

[NatP4]

Yeah. Wall has his best season in 2016/17. He averaged 23 points and 10.5 assists with a pretty efficient ORtg of 111. He posted a career low in percentage of shots taken between 10 and 22 feet and had the second best TOV% of his career. He ranked 1st in the league in assists and steals. He ranked 7th in MVP shares. He led his team to their best win total in 39 years and they got the furthest they've gotten in the playoffs in the modern era (Game 7 of the second round).

I think Wall was pretty comfortably a top 20 player that year. He was by no means in that elite tier of top 8 players (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Davis, Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Curry) but he was in the mix with the next tier of really good guys (Giannis, Lowry, Derozan, Klay, Draymond, Gobert, Butler, Lillard, Thomas, Beal, Jokic). Even if you put him at the tail end of that group, he's still around 18th, and an argument could be made for something in the 10-12 range.

Don't tell dckings that. He doesn't think Wall was a top 30 player in 2016-17.

RPM says he was the 48th best player in the NBA in 2016-2017.

Morris was 58th!!!! how do we get that guy back?

[prime1time]

Would you guys consider a Wall/Lowry swap?

Due to salary.

Maybe, but we kind of need to see how good this team is first.

[nuposse04]

Yeah. Wall has his best season in 2016/17. He averaged 23 points and 10.5 assists with a pretty efficient ORtg of 111. He posted a career low in percentage of shots taken between 10 and 22 feet and had the second best TOV% of his career. He ranked 1st in the league in assists and steals. He ranked 7th in MVP shares. He led his team to their best win total in 39 years and they got the furthest they've gotten in the playoffs in the modern era (Game 7 of the second round).

I think Wall was pretty comfortably a top 20 player that year. He was by no means in that elite tier of top 8 players (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Davis, Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Curry) but he was in the mix with the next tier of really good guys (Giannis, Lowry, Derozan, Klay, Draymond, Gobert, Butler, Lillard, Thomas, Beal, Jokic). Even if you put him at the tail end of that group, he's still around 18th, and an argument could be made for something in the 10-12 range.

Don't tell dckings that. He doesn't think Wall was a top 30 player in 2016-17.

RPM says he was the 48th best player in the NBA in 2016-2017.

Morris was 58th!!!! how do we get that guy back?

Health is a big factor on his big drop in production. Should Wall stay health I think it is reasonable to expect '16'-17 level production out of him. If he can incrementally get better at the 3 pt shot that would help a lot. Furthermore, if he develops ANY semblance of an off ball game instead of being a statue he'd help the half court offense way more, and other guys could actually ISO without him having to pound the rock.

I have my doubts he'll significantly improve his shot selection from '16-'17 or actually consistently fight over screens. Just have to hope he shoots a little better and Howard isn't quite the travesty on the perimeter defending players that Gortat was. Cause John will probably leave him out to dry many times.

I think waiting till the trade deadline is fine before making an abandon-ship type move. But trading Wall would be Grunfeld and company admitting to their stupidity, so that ain't happening. More likely Beal or Porter, which is even stupider to move before Wall.

[NatP4]

Would you guys consider a Wall/Lowry swap?

Due to salary.

Maybe, but we kind of need to see how good this team is first.

makes us better now and gets us out of cap hell in the future.

[Dat2U]

Would you guys consider a Wall/Lowry swap?

Due to salary.

Maybe, but we kind of need to see how good this team is first.

makes us better now and gets us out of cap hell in the future.

Yeah makes perfect sense to trade for the guy already in his decline... goes well with our young core???

[DCZards]

Yeah. Wall has his best season in 2016/17. He averaged 23 points and 10.5 assists with a pretty efficient ORtg of 111. He posted a career low in percentage of shots taken between 10 and 22 feet and had the second best TOV% of his career. He ranked 1st in the league in assists and steals. He ranked 7th in MVP shares. He led his team to their best win total in 39 years and they got the furthest they've gotten in the playoffs in the modern era (Game 7 of the second round).

I think Wall was pretty comfortably a top 20 player that year. He was by no means in that elite tier of top 8 players (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Davis, Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Curry) but he was in the mix with the next tier of really good guys (Giannis, Lowry, Derozan, Klay, Draymond, Gobert, Butler, Lillard, Thomas, Beal, Jokic). Even if you put him at the tail end of that group, he's still around 18th, and an argument could be made for something in the 10-12 range.

Don't tell dckings that. He doesn't think Wall was a top 30 player in 2016-17.

RPM says he was the 48th best player in the NBA in 2016-2017.

Morris was 58th!!!! how do we get that guy back?

Not seeing that RPM ranking online. Can you post the link? Thanks.

[payitforward]

Yeah. Wall has his best season in 2016/17. He averaged 23 points and 10.5 assists with a pretty efficient ORtg of 111. He posted a career low in percentage of shots taken between 10 and 22 feet and had the second best TOV% of his career. He ranked 1st in the league in assists and steals. He ranked 7th in MVP shares. He led his team to their best win total in 39 years and they got the furthest they've gotten in the playoffs in the modern era (Game 7 of the second round).

I think Wall was pretty comfortably a top 20 player that year. He was by no means in that elite tier of top 8 players (Lebron, Durant, Kawhi, Davis, Paul, Westbrook, Harden, Curry) but he was in the mix with the next tier of really good guys (Giannis, Lowry, Derozan, Klay, Draymond, Gobert, Butler, Lillard, Thomas, Beal, Jokic). Even if you put him at the tail end of that group, he's still around 18th, and an argument could be made for something in the 10-12 range.

Don't tell dckings that. He doesn't think Wall was a top 30 player in 2016-17.

While I'm comfortable that John had a year in which his production was top 25, there is no way he was "in the 10-12 range." Like any other bell-shaped curve, the higher you go in it the more significant the differences.

DeAndre Jordan, Rudy Gobert, Giannis, Chris Paul, Jimmy Butler, Jokic, Harden, Leonard, Westbrook, Durant, LeBron, Steph, KAT, Anthony Davis, & a couple of others are all players who every single year, year in & year out, have a level of impact on the games they play that is beyond what Wall was capable of in his best year (& may do again, why not?).

Those are, as I say, always better than John has ever been. That year, 2016-17, there were several others who were better that year than John was that year.

John is a terrific basketball player. It doesn't make him better to pit him against guys whose equal he is not, & make claims that are obviously not real.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What type of assets do we have to add to Morris and Rivers to send them to outer space?

I know we're going to need a rocket booster and we better make sure that the O-rings are tight

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Would you guys consider a Wall/Lowry swap?

Due to salary.

I would consider mating with an elephant but not for long... banish that thought after a nanosecond.

I definitely would consider it & I BET you've got a good idea... cuz you're throwing a bunch else in with this

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