Tobias Harris turns down 4 year, 80 million dollar extension from Clippers

[Manocad]

I’ll answer true to the thread title and OP.

Umm...ok. That’s his choice.


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[buzzkilloton]

Kevin Love 120m for 4 years. Can't wait for Tobias to get that contract too next offseason lol. I wanna hear some more hate on Blake's contract smh

+1

Love isn't exactly the picture of health either. He's missed 20+ games for 5 out the 10 seasons he's been in the league. He's also the same age as Blake.

Blake's contract is exactly where it should be. I think people forget just how good he is. He has 3rd place finish in the MVP vote in the ultra tough western conference, not a lot of people will remember that.

Kawhi, Kyrie, Oladipo, Giannis, Embiid are the only players in the eastern conference on Blake's level. Even Dipo/Embiid have only played at that level for one season.

Not sure why people are justifying Blakes huge contract that we traded assets for by bringing up the cavs resigning a player already on their roster. Its not the same thing at all. If the cavs shipped out Sexton and something else to grab Love right now it would be the same thing.

Whoa now lets see Blake lead a non CP3 team to some playoff wins before you start putting him on the level of those guys outside of Kyrie any of those guys can get you some playoff wins in the east and have already done so. Blakes record without CP3 has been awful over his career. The clippers record over the years with No Blake+CP3 was that of a 60 win team and with Blake no CP3(taking away his rookie year to be fair to Blake)that of a lotto team. Were going to be a projected 8 seed with Blake on the team add anyone of those guys and were not talking limping(literally in Blakes case)into a possible 8 seed

He came to the pistons last year and people around here were talking how we were going to be a threat in the playoffs to upset somebody(I imagine the same guys pumping him in this thread if i go back to the Blake thread) and outside of our home games vs tank teams we looked awful with him. Vegas doesnt seem to think adding him is doing much for us winning games next season either. If we added any of those other the title odds go up and our win total shoots up quite a bit from last season.

[thesack12]

Kevin Love 120m for 4 years. Can't wait for Tobias to get that contract too next offseason lol. I wanna hear some more hate on Blake's contract smh

+1

Love isn't exactly the picture of health either. He's missed 20+ games for 5 out the 10 seasons he's been in the league. He's also the same age as Blake.

Blake's contract is exactly where it should be. I think people forget just how good he is. He has 3rd place finish in the MVP vote in the ultra tough western conference, not a lot of people will remember that.

Kawhi, Kyrie, Oladipo, Giannis, Embiid are the only players in the eastern conference on Blake's level. Even Dipo/Embiid have only played at that level for one season.

Not sure why people are justifying Blakes huge contract that we traded assets for by bringing up the cavs resigning a player already on their roster. Its not the same thing at all. If the cavs shipped out Sexton and something else to grab Love right now it would be the same thing.

Whoa now lets see Blake lead a non CP3 team to some playoff wins before you start putting him on the level of those guys outside of Kyrie any of those guys can get you some playoff wins in the east and have already done so. Blakes record without CP3 has been awful over his career. The clippers record over the years with No Blake+CP3 was that of a 60 win team and with Blake no CP3(taking away his rookie year to be fair to Blake)that of a lotto team. Were going to be a projected 8 seed with Blake on the team add anyone of those guys and were not talking limping(literally in Blakes case)into a possible 8 seed

He came to the pistons last year and people around here were talking how we were going to be a threat in the playoffs to upset somebody(I imagine the same guys pumping him in this thread if i go back to the Blake thread) and outside of our home games vs tank teams we looked awful with him. Vegas doesnt seem to think adding him is doing much for us winning games next season either. If we added any of those other the title odds go up and our win total shoots up quite a bit from last season.

Well somehow Blake managed to have his best season of his career in 13-14. Which happened to be the same season Griffin finished 3rd in the MVP vote. Why am I bringing this up, because Paul missed 20 games that season, and miraculously the Clippers won 57 games, which is the most in franchise history.

Besides, I'm not even sure what your point is. Paul was a top 10 player at the time, who was an elite playmaker and the engine that made that LAC go. Clippers also reside in the varsity level western conference. Of course missing Paul would have an impact.

Also how dare I put Griffin and his ROY award, 5 all star selections, one time all NBA 3rd team selection, 3 time All NBA 2nd team selection, and top 3 MVP finish in the same class of those other guys I mentioned? Dipo/Giannis/Embiid haven't won anything yet, and both Kyrie and Kawhi had a ton of help along the way.

BTW, Kyrie missed 22 games last season + the entire playoffs, yet Boston won 55 games and was 1 win away from the Finals. Does that mean he isn't any good?

[buzzkilloton]

Well somehow Blake managed to have his best season of his career in 13-14. Which happened to be the same season Griffin finished 3rd in the MVP vote. Why am I bringing this up, because Paul missed 20 games that season, and miraculously the Clippers won 57 games, which is the most in franchise history.

Besides, I'm not even sure what your point is. Paul was a top 10 player at the time, who was an elite playmaker and the engine that made that LAC go. Clippers also reside in the varsity level western conference. Of course missing Paul would have an impact.

Also how dare I put Griffin and his ROY award, 5 all star selections, one time all NBA 3rd team selection, 3 time All NBA 2nd team selection, and top 3 MVP finish in the same class of those other guys I mentioned? Dipo/Giannis/Embiid haven't won anything yet, and both Kyrie and Kawhi had a ton of help along the way.

BTW, Kyrie missed 22 games last season + the entire playoffs, yet Boston won 55 games and was 1 win away from the Finals. Does that mean he isn't any good?

I actually think Kyrie is a bit overrated which is why in my post I wrote "all of those guys outside of Kyrie".

"Since Rivers was hired in 2013, the Clippers have a 24-25 record in games that Paul sat out. In all situations when Griffin was on the floor without Paul, they had only a minus-3 net rating, per NBA Wowy. They were essentially average;"

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/9/28/16375262/doc-rivers-clippers-chris-paul

That article was written before last season where the clippers continued to be average at best with Blake. Hence why Blake was on the trade market and the only taker was us.

You're using past accolades of Blake to compare him to the the best players in the eastern conference today. Blakes had 3 healthy seasons in his career 3 of his first four. His last all star team was 2015. Its been 3 seasons since he was even an all star and your comparing him to elite players based on things he did years ago. As I've said many times he dominates the ball and gets P+R+A but those numbers dont lead you to wins like what true superstar players do.

[thesack12]

Well somehow Blake managed to have his best season of his career in 13-14. Which happened to be the same season Griffin finished 3rd in the MVP vote. Why am I bringing this up, because Paul missed 20 games that season, and miraculously the Clippers won 57 games, which is the most in franchise history.

Besides, I'm not even sure what your point is. Paul was a top 10 player at the time, who was an elite playmaker and the engine that made that LAC go. Clippers also reside in the varsity level western conference. Of course missing Paul would have an impact.

Also how dare I put Griffin and his ROY award, 5 all star selections, one time all NBA 3rd team selection, 3 time All NBA 2nd team selection, and top 3 MVP finish in the same class of those other guys I mentioned? Dipo/Giannis/Embiid haven't won anything yet, and both Kyrie and Kawhi had a ton of help along the way.

BTW, Kyrie missed 22 games last season + the entire playoffs, yet Boston won 55 games and was 1 win away from the Finals. Does that mean he isn't any good?

I actually think Kyrie is a bit overrated which is why in my post I wrote "all of those guys outside of Kyrie".

"Since Rivers was hired in 2013, the Clippers have a 24-25 record in games that Paul sat out. In all situations when Griffin was on the floor without Paul, they had only a minus-3 net rating, per NBA Wowy. They were essentially average;"

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/9/28/16375262/doc-rivers-clippers-chris-paul

That article was written before last season where the clippers continued to be average at best with Blake. Hence why Blake was on the trade market and the only taker was us.

You're using past accolades of Blake to compare him to the the best players in the eastern conference today. Blakes had 3 healthy seasons in his career 3 of his first four. His last all star team was 2015. Its been 3 seasons since he was even an all star and your comparing him to elite players based on things he did years ago. As I've said many times he dominates the ball and gets P+R+A but those numbers dont lead you to wins like what true superstar players do.

Well you tried to claim that Clippers were a 60 win team w/o Blake, which is false. As I mentioned, their franchise best 57 wins came the year that Blake was 3rd in MVP and CP3 missed 25% of the season. Blake missed 2 games that season.

You also conveniently left out the next few sentences from the article you quoted...

It was harder for the Clippers to play without Paul because they were so reliant on him. Paul is one of the greatest point guards in the history of basketball

Hmm, imagine that...

And I'm actually comparing Blake to the level of competition in the eastern conference. Only Kawhi and Kyrie have the accolades that Blake does. Those other guys I initially mentioned are very stat laden comparisions. They don't have the awards/pedigree that Blake does yet.

[buzzkilloton]

Actually what i claimed was when Blake wasnt playing and CP3 was the clippers played like a 60 win team. Which if you look at their record and offensive +defensive rating without Blake but with CP3 and translated to a full season you would see it is that of a 60 win team. Their that much better without him.

Not sure why u insist on using Blakes past accolades to compare him to players still in their prime. Blake hasnt even made an all star team since 2015. You're comparing him to guys who are getting better every year and havent even peaked yet.

[thesack12]

Actually what i claimed was when Blake wasnt playing and CP3 was the clippers played like a 60 win team. Which if you look at their record and offensive +defensive rating without Blake but with CP3 and translated to a full season you would see it is that of a 60 win team. Their that much better without him.

Not sure why u insist on using Blakes past accolades to compare him to players still in their prime. Blake hasnt even made an all star team since 2015. You're comparing him to guys who are getting better every year and havent even peaked yet.

Again their all time best record came in a year Blake played 80 games, and CP3 played 62 games. You can try and manipulate numbers and projections all you want, but it didn't equate to the wins and losses you are trying to argue.

And Blake Griffin is 29 years old, lets stop acting like he is a 41 year old Vince Carter.

[buzzkilloton]

Actually what i claimed was when Blake wasnt playing and CP3 was the clippers played like a 60 win team. Which if you look at their record and offensive +defensive rating without Blake but with CP3 and translated to a full season you would see it is that of a 60 win team. Their that much better without him.

Not sure why u insist on using Blakes past accolades to compare him to players still in their prime. Blake hasnt even made an all star team since 2015. You're comparing him to guys who are getting better every year and havent even peaked yet.

Again their all time best record came in a year Blake played 80 games, and CP3 played 62 games. You can try and manipulate numbers and projections all you want, but it didn't equate to the wins and losses you are trying to argue.

And Blake Griffin is 29 years old, lets stop acting like he is a 41 year old Vince Carter.

I just posted their record was 24-25 with no CP3 since 2013 with their off def rating and u keep bringing up Blakes season he was in the mvp race. Not manipulating anything im posting proof while you hang onto a one time mvp race 5 years ago that Blake didnt win as to why Blake is still on a Giannis/Embiid/Oladipo/Kawhi level today.

29 for one player and 29 for another is completely diff things. 67/35/61/58 last 4 seasons game played last all star game 2015. Lebron James at 29 hes not.

[ByeByeDre]

Actually what i claimed was when Blake wasnt playing and CP3 was the clippers played like a 60 win team. Which if you look at their record and offensive +defensive rating without Blake but with CP3 and translated to a full season you would see it is that of a 60 win team. Their that much better without him.

Not sure why u insist on using Blakes past accolades to compare him to players still in their prime. Blake hasnt even made an all star team since 2015. You're comparing him to guys who are getting better every year and havent even peaked yet.

Again their all time best record came in a year Blake played 80 games, and CP3 played 62 games. You can try and manipulate numbers and projections all you want, but it didn't equate to the wins and losses you are trying to argue.

And Blake Griffin is 29 years old, lets stop acting like he is a 41 year old Vince Carter.

I just posted their record was 24-25 with no CP3 since 2013 with their off def rating and u keep bringing up Blakes season he was in the mvp race. Not manipulating anything im posting proof while you hang onto a one time mvp race 5 years ago that Blake didnt win as to why Blake is still on a Giannis/Embiid/Oladipo/Kawhi level today.

29 for one player and 29 for another is completely diff things. 67/35/61/58 last 4 seasons game played last all star game 2015. Lebron James at 29 hes not.

I can’t believe Jerry West gave him that contract. And I can’t believe we took it off his hands.

[thesack12]

Actually what i claimed was when Blake wasnt playing and CP3 was the clippers played like a 60 win team. Which if you look at their record and offensive +defensive rating without Blake but with CP3 and translated to a full season you would see it is that of a 60 win team. Their that much better without him.

Not sure why u insist on using Blakes past accolades to compare him to players still in their prime. Blake hasnt even made an all star team since 2015. You're comparing him to guys who are getting better every year and havent even peaked yet.

Again their all time best record came in a year Blake played 80 games, and CP3 played 62 games. You can try and manipulate numbers and projections all you want, but it didn't equate to the wins and losses you are trying to argue.

And Blake Griffin is 29 years old, lets stop acting like he is a 41 year old Vince Carter.

I just posted their record was 24-25 with no CP3 since 2013 with their off def rating and u keep bringing up Blakes season he was in the mvp race. Not manipulating anything im posting proof while you hang onto a one time mvp race 5 years ago that Blake didnt win as to why Blake is still on a Giannis/Embiid/Oladipo/Kawhi level today.

29 for one player and 29 for another is completely diff things. 67/35/61/58 last 4 seasons game played last all star game 2015. Lebron James at 29 hes not.

No, you've been trying to argue that LAC was a better team without Blake and that they would fall apart at the seams anytime Paul didn't play. The 13-14 season completely contradicts your argument.

A Lebron mention, really? I'm done with this. Enjoy your strawman.

[buzzkilloton]

A/quote]

No, you've been trying to argue that LAC was a better team without Blake and that they would fall apart at the seams anytime Paul didn't play. The 13-14 season completely contradicts your argument.

A Lebron mention, really? I'm done with this. Enjoy your strawman.

From 2014 to 2017:

With CP3 and no Griffin: 2143 minutes; 114 ORTG, 103 .2 DRTG, +10.8 NET

With Griffin and no Paul: 893 minutes: 107.5 ORTG, 111.2 DRTG, -3.7 NET

rockets last season -115.48 off rating 106.48 defensive rating +8.64 net rating

raptors last season-114.60 off 106.56 drating 7.54 net

Like i said 60 win team.

The clippers werent good without CP3. I just showed the 24-25 record. The clippers werent good last season when they had no CP3. We werent good when Blake was here last season. Hell the clippers had a better record with T.Harris added to the same team.

Maybe there was a time many years ago before Blake was injured all over he was a mvp level player but that time has passed. You cant put him on the elite level players in the east when he hasnt even been on the all star team in 3 seasons.

You're saying im the strawman when all you write is "he was a mvp candidate 5 years ago. I'm showing you numbers.

[King Bugs]

I don't think I'm willing to put Blake in the same tier as the top players in the conference. Not as long as he continues to be a 43% shooting power forward. That has to be one of the worst shooting percentages for a player at his position. We need our elite PF to be shooting closer to 50% than 40%, until then he's at best a tier below.

The popcorn numbers (pts/rebs/asts) should continue to be nice as long as he's a focal point in the offense, but that low efficiency is going to be a problem. He was really hurting us at times with how he was settling, jacking, and missing long jumpers. With the steep decline of his "jump out the gym" athleticism which made him special, I'm not sure if he can be high or moderately efficient scorer anymore.