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2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1261 » by Revived » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:55 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
TBH, I expect Shaq to be our most effective PG this year.


I definitely like him, but if he can't shoot at his age it might be hard to keep him on the floor too many minutes unless he somehow improves it.


Tenacious defensive PGs are an even rarer commodity than PGs shooting over 40% from 3. As long as he keeps turnovers low and keeps playing D the way he has, he'll earn his PT. Knight will take that PT as long as he's merely respectable on defense and not trying to do too much on the other end. Just based on what we've seen so far, Shaq's the best PG on the roster from a +/- perspective. God, I hope BK kills it this year, because he's our only chance of having an advantage over other teams at that position.

I don’t think this is true. There’s a lot of really good defensive PGs that dropped in the draft because they can’t shoot while PGs who can shoot but can’t defend went higher.

Even a guy like Tyrone Wallace who is a fantastic defender can’t find a roster spot in the NBA because of his inability to shoot.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1262 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:27 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
TBH, I expect Shaq to be our most effective PG this year.


I definitely like him, but if he can't shoot at his age it might be hard to keep him on the floor too many minutes unless he somehow improves it.


Tenacious defensive PGs are an even rarer commodity than PGs shooting over 40% from 3. As long as he keeps turnovers low and keeps playing D the way he has, he'll earn his PT. Knight will take that PT as long as he's merely respectable on defense and not trying to do too much on the other end. Just based on what we've seen so far, Shaq's the best PG on the roster from a +/- perspective. God, I hope BK kills it this year, because he's our only chance of having an advantage over other teams at that position.


But he shoots 23% from 3. If we were starting Booker/Bridges/Ariza at the wings or when they play together, I think Shaq would be perfect to play with them and we'd have solid defense 1-4 outside of Book. I think with our other 3s, especially Jackson, it's tough play Shaq with him if you don't want players to just double and triple Booker.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1263 » by MathiasPW » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:20 am

He shot 4/9 in Summer League.
Take that for data!
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1264 » by sunskerr » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:57 am

Revived wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:Anyone think it's safe to say we would have nabbed Capella if we offered him the max? (Had we drafted Doncic instead of Ayton)

Read on Twitter


I wouldn't want to spend max money on any center. That includes Ayton too.

Would you have drafted him first overall if it was your choice?


I wanted Doncic but Ayton was my #2 by a fair mile. But as of now I don't see any point in paying ANY big a max contract. I believe that it's pretty obvious nowadays that the best, most optimal offensive systems simply do not result in centers scoring 25 ppg. In other words if your center is scoring 25 ppg you're likely playing suboptimal basketball.

Let's take our Ayton for example: You want him to score off cuts, putbacks and alleyoops. He's not going to score 25 ppg doing that, but we want him to score in that manner. For him to score 25 ppg, we'd have to run the offense through him and he'd also have to do what we don't want him to do, which is isolating himself, or going back-to-the-basket, because that's doggy doo doo basketball and it hurts the team. So you take those bad shots he would have taken, and you give them to a cutting Warren, or you give them to Ariza or Booker for 3. The end result, if that center can pass, is something akin to Al Horford, who is still an amazing player.

There are also heavy salary cap implications for giving a center a max contract as well. Since centers are required to, again, score off cuts, dunks etc. then you simply don't want to spend a gigantic percentage of your cap on that because the skills required to play center in an offense aren't scarce at all.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1265 » by SwingMan1938 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:21 am

Revived wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:Durant has come a long way from the likable "you're the real MVP" to where he is now. The dude can't say anything positive. He's a dick through and through. Just stay quiet and be humble. You know what you did and fans don't like you because of it. Don't make people hate the person as much as the player though. That's what it feels like he's doing now.

Read on Twitter


A conscience can be a hellish taskmaster - especially after you pull a bitch move.....
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Re: RE: Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1266 » by jredsaz » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:42 am

MathiasPW wrote:An idle offseason is the trigger-happy RealGMers workshop
100%

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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1267 » by KLEON » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 am

SwingMan1938 wrote:
Revived wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:Durant has come a long way from the likable "you're the real MVP" to where he is now. The dude can't say anything positive. He's a dick through and through. Just stay quiet and be humble. You know what you did and fans don't like you because of it. Don't make people hate the person as much as the player though. That's what it feels like he's doing now.

Read on Twitter


A conscience can be a hellish taskmaster - especially after you pull a bitch move.....

KD just needs to keep quiet. He needs to understand that the media make their money through controversy and they're NBA owners,players and fans who hate him and the Warriors(not me and I'm a Suns fan). I said this time and time again I have no problem with KD going to GSW because its clear as day that he couldn't stand playing with Westbrook anymore because he simply cares about his numbers and he actually thinks that he's better than KD. In that same season Harrison Barnes was like a ghost in GSW starting 5 especially in the finals so KD going to GSW made perfect sense because they were weak at SF and they played in a system that he always wanted to play in. Again I say I'm a Suns fan and I have no problem with KD going to GSW because the fact is he was a free agent and its not like he forced a trade. Its up to the other 29 teams to figure out a way to beat them. BTW if Russell Westbrook was my teammate I would definitely do the same as KD and that's way I'm still shocked PG13 stayed which I'll think he will definitely regret in a season or 2. Just to add, I think the media, owners, players and fans are constantly getting at him in hopes of him finally leaving GSW so other teams may have a chance at a championship which I think is quite pathetic.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1268 » by MrMiyagi » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:30 am

Revived wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:Durant has come a long way from the likable "you're the real MVP" to where he is now. The dude can't say anything positive. He's a dick through and through. Just stay quiet and be humble. You know what you did and fans don't like you because of it. Don't make people hate the person as much as the player though. That's what it feels like he's doing now.

Read on Twitter

To be fair, a lot of the basketball talk this summer is "Can any team beat the Warriors?" or "Did the Warriors ruin basketball?" and people don't talk about Steph, Klay, and Draymond as the reason for this, it's all Durant talk. KD took the Warriors from a champion to a dynasty, and there's a lot of talk about why he should not have gone from personal (he should be a competitor! be his own man!) to business (the salary cap should've been smoothed to prevent this from happening!). The fact is, the league (fans, media, other players) hasn't moved on from his decision two years ago. I mean, LeBron went through the same thing in Miami, but people have forgiven him because he went back to Cleveland and won a championship there. He's been absolved, which is why no one really gives him **** for going to the Lakers except Kobe fans.

I think part of it too is KD just wanted to be recognized but he ended up getting vilified, which he wasn't expecting. I think he believes he's the best player in the world, it's that no one was seeing that while he was in OKC. I mean, in terms of who is the NBA's best player, it felt like the conversations went from Kobe vs. LeBron, to LeBron outright, to "Is Steph the new face of the League? Is he better than LeBron?"

I think people think of Durant as a Tim Duncan type, low-maintenance superstar, but he's much more Kobe than people realized. Seeing dudes like Paul George and Kawhi get moments against LeBron in big games and then some buzz about being "answers" to LeBron probably pissed him off. Meanwhile, the talk about KD and OKC is James Harden is great, OKC **** up not re-signing him and Russell Westbrook and Durant can't figure it out on the court. No one was talking about KD vs. LeBron.

He goes to Golden State, gets his shot at LeBron and beats him twice, and still no one is having conversations about him vs. LeBron. In fact, he's probably helping build a case for LeBron not just being the best of his generation, but the GOAT, because LeBron just dragged an awful team all the way to the NBA finals and made it the slightest bit competitive (which it really only was in game 1, and I really doubt they win 2 games in that series if they steal that, but JR giving it away probably helped everyone realize how bad his team was, thus building our opinion of LeBron).

So, yes, he does have an ego, and he is being petty, but it's kind of impossible to move on from his decision when the media doesn't let him, especially when he probably thinks they should be talking about him being better than LeBron.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1269 » by LukasBMW » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:11 pm

Thread is dead. We've talked about ever trade possible. Nothing left to talk about until training camp.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1270 » by Jdiddy701 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:59 am

LukasBMW wrote:Thread is dead. We've talked about ever trade possible. Nothing left to talk about until training camp.


Have we talked about George King for Lebron James?


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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1271 » by Fo-Real » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:23 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Thread is dead. We've talked about ever trade possible. Nothing left to talk about until training camp.


Have we talked about George King for Lebron James?


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NOOOO, I really like George :D
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1272 » by bigfoot » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:49 am

LukasBMW wrote:Thread is dead. We've talked about ever trade possible. Nothing left to talk about until training camp.


Who's left to trade/move. It either Chandler or Daniels. Everybody else needs to stick around to see what we have. Unfortunately no one needs/wants Chandler. Daniels makes the most sense to move and the only thing we can get in return is a roster spot to pick up another PG.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1273 » by SwingMan1938 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:55 am

bigfoot wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Thread is dead. We've talked about ever trade possible. Nothing left to talk about until training camp.


Who's left to trade/move. It either Chandler or Daniels. Everybody else needs to stick around to see what we have. Unfortunately no one needs/wants Chandler. Daniels makes the most sense to move and the only thing we can get in return is a roster spot to pick up another PG.


Yep - Daniels ($3 mil) + 2nd round pick(s) to Philadelphia for T.J. McConnell ($1.6 mil) + whatever salary filler needed is what I've been advocating. Then, see how this team works with an actual distributor to set the table & feed 'em.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1274 » by SwingMan1938 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:57 am

Fo-Real wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Thread is dead. We've talked about ever trade possible. Nothing left to talk about until training camp.


Have we talked about George King for Lebron James?


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NOOOO, I really like George :D


I've actually got a real good feeling about George King - he strikes me as a more polished P.J. Tucker who's not afraid in the least to mix it up.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1275 » by cberry78 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:40 am

LukasBMW wrote:Thread is dead. We've talked about ever trade possible. Nothing left to talk about until training camp.

Maybe we can pick Papagiannis off the scrap heap and send him and (maybe) a second to the Kings for Bagley?
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1276 » by Revived » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:30 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Thread is dead. We've talked about ever trade possible. Nothing left to talk about until training camp.


Have we talked about George King for Lebron James?


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George King > King James
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1277 » by Revived » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:32 am

SwingMan1938 wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:
Have we talked about George King for Lebron James?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


NOOOO, I really like George :D


I've actually got a real good feeling about George King - he strikes me as a more polished P.J. Tucker who's not afraid in the least to mix it up.

Funny after watching his highlight clips after we drafted him, I got that same vibe. Then went to his draft.net page and Tucker is actually his comparison on there!

He may bounce around like Tucker before catching on with NBA teams though in the long run. He’s gonna have to bulk up and it took Tucker a while and those Euro stintst to do that.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1278 » by Revived » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:36 am

sunskerr wrote:
Revived wrote:
sunskerr wrote:
I wouldn't want to spend max money on any center. That includes Ayton too.

Would you have drafted him first overall if it was your choice?


I wanted Doncic but Ayton was my #2 by a fair mile. But as of now I don't see any point in paying ANY big a max contract. I believe that it's pretty obvious nowadays that the best, most optimal offensive systems simply do not result in centers scoring 25 ppg. In other words if your center is scoring 25 ppg you're likely playing suboptimal basketball.

Let's take our Ayton for example: You want him to score off cuts, putbacks and alleyoops. He's not going to score 25 ppg doing that, but we want him to score in that manner. For him to score 25 ppg, we'd have to run the offense through him and he'd also have to do what we don't want him to do, which is isolating himself, or going back-to-the-basket, because that's doggy doo doo basketball and it hurts the team. So you take those bad shots he would have taken, and you give them to a cutting Warren, or you give them to Ariza or Booker for 3. The end result, if that center can pass, is something akin to Al Horford, who is still an amazing player.

There are also heavy salary cap implications for giving a center a max contract as well. Since centers are required to, again, score off cuts, dunks etc. then you simply don't want to spend a gigantic percentage of your cap on that because the skills required to play center in an offense aren't scarce at all.

I agree and these are all reasons I wanted Doncic instead as well.

I just hope Ayton can become a very good defender in the long run because that will at least allow us to keep him on the court at all times.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1279 » by bigfoot » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:46 pm

When will we get that magic season again flipping from a major loser to a winner. The season after we traded Nance for KJ, Corbin, and West and then picked up Chambers as a FA and nabbed Majerle in the draft. The season we replaced Marbury and Hardway with Nash. Is replacing Ulis, Len, Payton, and Dudley with Ayton, Bridges, Ariza, and Kokoshkov gonna get it done?
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1280 » by SuperSunsFan » Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:48 pm

KLEON wrote:
SwingMan1938 wrote:
Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


A conscience can be a hellish taskmaster - especially after you pull a bitch move.....

KD just needs to keep quiet. He needs to understand that the media make their money through controversy and they're NBA owners,players and fans who hate him and the Warriors(not me and I'm a Suns fan). I said this time and time again I have no problem with KD going to GSW because its clear as day that he couldn't stand playing with Westbrook anymore because he simply cares about his numbers and he actually thinks that he's better than KD. In that same season Harrison Barnes was like a ghost in GSW starting 5 especially in the finals so KD going to GSW made perfect sense because they were weak at SF and they played in a system that he always wanted to play in. Again I say I'm a Suns fan and I have no problem with KD going to GSW because the fact is he was a free agent and its not like he forced a trade. Its up to the other 29 teams to figure out a way to beat them. BTW if Russell Westbrook was my teammate I would definitely do the same as KD and that's way I'm still shocked PG13 stayed which I'll think he will definitely regret in a season or 2. Just to add, I think the media, owners, players and fans are constantly getting at him in hopes of him finally leaving GSW so other teams may have a chance at a championship which I think is quite pathetic.

one thing the pundits and proponents of the theory that because teams don't show loyalty to players by trading them at will so players don't need to show loyalty back to their respective teams got it all wrong and against the nature of how the league was designed. The reason why fans are not upset with teams showing no loyalty to players but not the other way is most fans only have loyalty to their teams, and that is how the league was designed, it was a team league. Teams should and are encouraged to trade players or getting rid of useless players as much as they needed to to find the best combination to chase the championship. Most fans don't harbor any loyalty for players, I know I don't. When Kidd or Nash or Amare or Marion or Dragic was on the Suns I was their biggest fans when they left I didn't give a darn about them no more, that is the normal. Individual merits for most fans have zero importance. Truth be told no one really give a darn about if KD or lebron ever won a championship really but themselves and their bandwagon fans. players just have to accept that fans are mostly team oriented when they act in self interest and collude together to bypass teams to form superteams fans would not be happy about that because that is against the nature of team sports. If they feel they chasing a champion to validate their careers then go for it, this is a free country, do whatever, but don't expect fans to respect that, because by forming a superteam in one place you intentionally alienating fans everywhere except that particular city and breaking the balance of the league. Do the fans of the lucky city bestowed by these colluding players truly appreciate those championships, do you feel satiated beating a game in easy mode, I don't. I would imagine GS fans cherish the championship they won before KD and Miami fans embrace their championship with Shaq and wade more than the Lebron ones.

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