2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[BobbieL]

When will we get that magic season again flipping from a major loser to a winner. The season after we traded Nance for KJ, Corbin, and West and then picked up Chambers as a FA and nabbed Majerle in the draft. The season we replaced Marbury and Hardway with Nash. Is replacing Ulis, Len, Payton, and Dudley with Ayton, Bridges, Ariza, and Kokoshkov gonna get it done?

In comparison to the Warriors and their build, the Suns are where they were six years ago. Curry going into 4th year, Klay second and Barnes, Green rookies. For the Suns, Booker going into 4th, Josh his second and Ayton Bridges rookies. Now, I know that is a very very high bar - but just comparing. In the middle if the 12/13 season, the Warriors got Bogut. Made the playoffs in 12/13. I don't think the Suns make the playoffs this year - but I think they push enough that next summer - they will get that one player that pushes them towardsa play off spot in 19/20.

As for deals, I think Daniels will be the one waived or traded in time

[bwgood77]

I might take a look at Lowry next year if we need that vet PG if Kawhi leaves them and they want to rebuild. I'm not sure if they'd take Knight and the Bucks pick but it would give them major salary relief and allow them to rebuild. He was #4 in RPM for point guards only behind Paul, Curry and Harden and ahead of Westbrook, Lillard, and far ahead of guys like Wall, Irving, Simmons, etc...

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

he would be expensive but expiring. He has shot 40% or near it the last three years from 3 and is a neutral to slight positive defender. He's a good example of a guy who shot poorly from 3 his first 4 years but then drastically improved from 27% to 37% his 5th year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html

Sure he's overpaid but would be the decent one year vet bridge until hopefully maybe Okobo takes over (if he can't sooner). In part I think of him because I don't necessarily expect guys like Kemba or Rubio to sign elsewhere. I know there are connections to Igor but Utah is obviously a very solid team right now and he played a big part so not sure why he'd move. Same with Irving and don't want to go towards Dragic or Bledsoe. Then Wall's contract is an albatross.

[BobbieL]

I might take a look at Lowry next year if we need that vet PG if Kawhi leaves them and they want to rebuild. I'm not sure if they'd take Knight and the Bucks pick but it would give them major salary relief and allow them to rebuild. He was #4 in RPM for point guards only behind Paul, Curry and Harden and ahead of Westbrook, Lillard, and far ahead of guys like Wall, Irving, Simmons, etc...

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

he would be expensive but expiring. He has shot 40% or near it the last three years from 3 and is a neutral to slight positive defender. He's a good example of a guy who shot poorly from 3 his first 4 years but then drastically improved from 27% to 37% his 5th year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html

Sure he's overpaid but would be the decent one year vet bridge until hopefully maybe Okobo takes over (if he can't sooner). In part I think of him because I don't necessarily expect guys like Kemba or Rubio to sign elsewhere. I know there are connections to Igor but Utah is obviously a very solid team right now and he played a big part so not sure why he'd move. Same with Irving and don't want to go towards Dragic or Bledsoe. Then Wall's contract is an albatross.

Good call. I thought of Lowry this summer. But they got Kawhi and that kind of changes things. But if Kawhi walks - moving Lowry would give them some cap space to start rebuilding. I think that will be a darn good team - probably ahead of the Sixers now if Kawhi is right.

[sunskerr]

I agree and these are all reasons I wanted Doncic instead as well.

I just hope Ayton can become a very good defender in the long run because that will at least allow us to keep him on the court at all times.

There's always a chance Doncic completely busts. And I was being a bit harsh when I said I would never max a center, ever. I mean, if he gets 18-20 ppg/10+rebs/3-4 ast/1 3pg with good defense so he can play 40 mpg in the playoffs then I think in that scenario you start thinking about maxing Ayton.

[Saberestar]

I agree and these are all reasons I wanted Doncic instead as well.

I just hope Ayton can become a very good defender in the long run because that will at least allow us to keep him on the court at all times.

There's always a chance Doncic completely busts. And I was being a bit harsh when I said I would never max a center, ever. I mean, if he gets 18-20 ppg/10+rebs/3-4 ast/1 3pg with good defense so he can play 40 mpg in the playoffs then I think in that scenario you start thinking about maxing Ayton.

Doncic is not gonna bust. He has one of the highest floors that you can see in a 19 years old player.

He probably is not gonna be a perennial All Star, IDK, but I am pretty sure that he is gonna be at least an starter in the NBA.

I think that Ayton has a higher ceiling but a lower floor too. And I would give him max money if he can average in his third season those numbers that you put in the post.

Regarding his minutes on the court...no one is playing 40 mpg anymore in the league.

The pace is superfast nowadays, so players can not play on that high level for more than 35 mpg if they want to be effective and healthy.

Centers usually are gonna play less minutes, so I would be happy if Ayton avearges 32 mpg. I do not expect more than that.

Look at the mpg around the league from 15 years ago ... it was so different.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I agree and these are all reasons I wanted Doncic instead as well.

I just hope Ayton can become a very good defender in the long run because that will at least allow us to keep him on the court at all times.

There's always a chance Doncic completely busts. And I was being a bit harsh when I said I would never max a center, ever. I mean, if he gets 18-20 ppg/10+rebs/3-4 ast/1 3pg with good defense so he can play 40 mpg in the playoffs then I think in that scenario you start thinking about maxing Ayton.

Doncic is not gonna bust. He has one of the highest floors that you can see in a 19 years old player.

He probably is not gonna be a perennial All Star, IDK, but I am pretty sure that he is gonna be at least an starter in the NBA.

I think that Ayton has a higher ceiling but a lower floor too. And I would give him max money if he can average in his third season those numbers that you put in the post.

Regarding his minutes on the court...no one is playing 40 mpg anymore in the league.

The pace is superfast nowadays, so players can not play on that high level for more than 35 mpg if they want to be effective and healthy.

Centers usually are gonna play less minutes, so I would be happy if Ayton avearges 32 mpg. I do not expect more than that.

Look at the mpg around the league from 15 years ago ... it was so different.

All very well stated, and I agree with you on every point.

I am beyond excited to see what Deandre is capable of. This is such a great draft, so Deandre has a lot to live up to as the #1 pick. He should be a great fit with Booker in particular, and our shooters should get a lot of wide open shots. I'm hoping for a big year from Dragan, in particular. Dragan's emergence would go a long way to quelling my worries about missing out on JJJ.

He will play no more than 30 MPG this season - and likely more like 26 or 28. He has a long way to go to get himself to NBA-level conditioning. It will behoove us to be patient as best we can. Deandre's still a kid, after all. I think Booker and Bridges will be good mentors for him, actually.

The lineup I'd be most excited to see working well together is:

Jackson
Booker
Bridges
Bender
Ayton

I don't think there's enough toughness or experience in that group to really click, but if it ever does...

[Saberestar]

There's always a chance Doncic completely busts. And I was being a bit harsh when I said I would never max a center, ever. I mean, if he gets 18-20 ppg/10+rebs/3-4 ast/1 3pg with good defense so he can play 40 mpg in the playoffs then I think in that scenario you start thinking about maxing Ayton.

Doncic is not gonna bust. He has one of the highest floors that you can see in a 19 years old player.

He probably is not gonna be a perennial All Star, IDK, but I am pretty sure that he is gonna be at least an starter in the NBA.

I think that Ayton has a higher ceiling but a lower floor too. And I would give him max money if he can average in his third season those numbers that you put in the post.

Regarding his minutes on the court...no one is playing 40 mpg anymore in the league.

The pace is superfast nowadays, so players can not play on that high level for more than 35 mpg if they want to be effective and healthy.

Centers usually are gonna play less minutes, so I would be happy if Ayton avearges 32 mpg. I do not expect more than that.

Look at the mpg around the league from 15 years ago ... it was so different.

All very well stated, and I agree with you on every point.

I am beyond excited to see what Deandre is capable of. This is such a great draft, so Deandre has a lot to live up to as the #1 pick. He should be a great fit with Booker in particular, and our shooters should get a lot of wide open shots. I'm hoping for a big year from Dragan, in particular. Dragan's emergence would go a long way to quelling my worries about missing out on JJJ.

He will play no more than 30 MPG this season - and likely more like 26 or 28. He has a long way to go to get himself to NBA-level conditioning. It will behoove us to be patient as best we can. Deandre's still a kid, after all. I think Booker and Bridges will be good mentors for him, actually.

The lineup I'd be most excited to see working well together is:

Jackson
Booker
Bridges
Bender
Ayton

I don't think there's enough toughness or experience in that group to really click, but if it ever does...

Yeah, I agree with you about Ayton.

But after reading again Sunskerr's post I need to say that it is true that Ayton can get closer to 40 mpg IN THE PLAYOFFS if he stays out of foul trouble and healthy.

[Wilber85]

I agree and these are all reasons I wanted Doncic instead as well.

I just hope Ayton can become a very good defender in the long run because that will at least allow us to keep him on the court at all times.

There's always a chance Doncic completely busts. And I was being a bit harsh when I said I would never max a center, ever. I mean, if he gets 18-20 ppg/10+rebs/3-4 ast/1 3pg with good defense so he can play 40 mpg in the playoffs then I think in that scenario you start thinking about maxing Ayton.

Doncic is not gonna bust. He has one of the highest floors that you can see in a 19 years old player.

He probably is not gonna be a perennial All Star, IDK, but I am pretty sure that he is gonna be at least an starter in the NBA.

I think that Ayton has a higher ceiling but a lower floor too. And I would give him max money if he can average in his third season those numbers that you put in the post.

Regarding his minutes on the court...no one is playing 40 mpg anymore in the league.

The pace is superfast nowadays, so players can not play on that high level for more than 35 mpg if they want to be effective and healthy.

Centers usually are gonna play less minutes, so I would be happy if Ayton avearges 32 mpg. I do not expect more than that.

Look at the mpg around the league from 15 years ago ... it was so different.

Doncic will be a starter but avg around 12/5/4 . I don't see him being a star at all.

[Jingles2]

How high are the Suns on Chriss? I'm not sure if Boston would do this, but Chriss for Rozier works. With Boston having Smart and Irving they may look to move Rozier before the deadline and the thing they could use most are young bigs. Maybe we have to attach a second or two, but Rozier would be worth it to me.

[dremill24]

How high are the Suns on Chriss? I'm not sure if Boston would do this, but Chriss for Rozier works. With Boston having Smart and Irving they may look to move Rozier before the deadline and the thing they could use most are young bigs. Maybe we have to attach a second or two, but Rozier would be worth it to me.

Suns would do it in a heartbeat but Ainge would need us to add Ayton.

[BobbieL]

From the take it FWIW department - Ross - Legion Hoops says the Suns are asking around on Bender and trade value. Ross did have the Melo trade but I think he actually pilfered from Mitch Lawrence. Ross had the Suns talking to the CAvs about Love. Ross seems to have a bit of Jodan SChultz in him but playing along, wonder what value they are trying to get.

I just am not sure what value Bender has at this point? Don't want to sell low either.

Read on Twitter

[Revived]

His value would be incredibly low to other teams. I can think of maybe a team like the Spurs valuing him as Pop loves Euro players especially those that can shoot & somewhat defend. Pop would try and turn him into a 7ft version of prime Diaw.

[Saberestar]

From the take it FWIW department - Ross - Legion Hoops says the Suns are asking around on Bender and trade value. Ross did have the Melo trade but I think he actually pilfered from Mitch Lawrence. Ross had the Suns talking to the CAvs about Love. Ross seems to have a bit of Jodan SChultz in him but playing along, wonder what value they are trying to get.

I just am not sure what value Bender has at this point? Don't want to sell low either.

Read on Twitter

I am not surprised.

We are probably gauging interest around the league about everyone on our roster except Booker.

[BobbieL]

From the take it FWIW department - Ross - Legion Hoops says the Suns are asking around on Bender and trade value. Ross did have the Melo trade but I think he actually pilfered from Mitch Lawrence. Ross had the Suns talking to the CAvs about Love. Ross seems to have a bit of Jodan SChultz in him but playing along, wonder what value they are trying to get.

I just am not sure what value Bender has at this point? Don't want to sell low either.

Read on Twitter

I am not surprised.

We are probably gauging interest around the league about everyone on our roster except Booker.

in the thread on twitter - somebody suggested Lance Thomas for Dragan Bendan. That wasn't appealing but i thought what if Lance Thomas could be shipped for Beverly?

[bigfoot]

Moving Bender would be huge mistake. He's a plus on defense and can hit the three. He can play either PF or C in at least a backup roll. Add in the fact that he is still the second youngest player on the team, only slightly older than Ayton, and has a lot of room for developmental improvement. He's not going to be a star but you don't just throw away big men who can shoot the three.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Moving Bender would be huge mistake. He's a plus on defense and can hit the three. He can play either PF or C in at least a backup roll. Add in the fact that he is still the second youngest player on the team, only slightly older than Ayton, and has a lot of room for developmental improvement. He's not going to be a star but you don't just throw away big men who can shoot the three.

Honestly, if he gets to 40% from 3, continues to improve his ballhandling and continues to show the degree of hustle we saw at the end of SL, he would be a star, at least from an advanced stats perspective.

[Revived]

From the take it FWIW department - Ross - Legion Hoops says the Suns are asking around on Bender and trade value. Ross did have the Melo trade but I think he actually pilfered from Mitch Lawrence. Ross had the Suns talking to the CAvs about Love. Ross seems to have a bit of Jodan SChultz in him but playing along, wonder what value they are trying to get.

I just am not sure what value Bender has at this point? Don't want to sell low either.

Read on Twitter

Did he take the tweet down?

[jcsunsfan]

How high are the Suns on Chriss? I'm not sure if Boston would do this, but Chriss for Rozier works. With Boston having Smart and Irving they may look to move Rozier before the deadline and the thing they could use most are young bigs. Maybe we have to attach a second or two, but Rozier would be worth it to me.

Suns would do it in a heartbeat but Ainge would need us to add Ayton.

And three first round picks. And then be insulted that we didn't say yes. Because that is how people in Boston view things.

[LukasBMW]

Moving Bender would be huge mistake. He's a plus on defense and can hit the three. He can play either PF or C in at least a backup roll. Add in the fact that he is still the second youngest player on the team, only slightly older than Ayton, and has a lot of room for developmental improvement. He's not going to be a star but you don't just throw away big men who can shoot the three.

+100

We don't need superstars at every position. We need role players too. Bender is already a 3 point threat, great passer, and good defender.

[lilfishi22]

I'm not in favor of moving Bender because he has value as a stretch big. Even if he does nothing else as advertised other than his shooting ability (should be shooting near .400 this season on 4 attempts), he's going to have value. If a deal comes along that makes sense, I'm all for it; he's not untouchable but he does fit the modern NBA which I value highly.