2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[Kerrsed]

Moving Bender would be huge mistake. He's a plus on defense and can hit the three. He can play either PF or C in at least a backup roll. Add in the fact that he is still the second youngest player on the team, only slightly older than Ayton, and has a lot of room for developmental improvement. He's not going to be a star but you don't just throw away big men who can shoot the three.

Honestly, if he gets to 40% from 3, continues to improve his ballhandling and continues to show the degree of hustle we saw at the end of SL, he would be a star, at least from an advanced stats perspective.

....and if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

This line of thought sounds eerily familiar with A LOT of failed NBA players. If so-and-so only increased their efficiency they would be great, if so-and-so only played defense they would be an all-star, if so-and-so only kept their head up when they drove the lane they would be a starter.

Im just tired of hoping year after year after year that these highly drafted youngsters FINALLY get it. At some point you have to admit to yourself that a guy isnt the player you thought he would be, wasnt as advertised pre-draft, didnt live up to the hype. We gave Len 5 years to show us he could be that guy.....and where is he now? Getting ready to play another season in a back-up role on a newly signed deal with the Hawks where he is making LESS MONEY than he did this past year with us.

........but you know, if only he could have defended a bit better and raised his FG% to around 60%......

[lilfishi22]

Moving Bender would be huge mistake. He's a plus on defense and can hit the three. He can play either PF or C in at least a backup roll. Add in the fact that he is still the second youngest player on the team, only slightly older than Ayton, and has a lot of room for developmental improvement. He's not going to be a star but you don't just throw away big men who can shoot the three.

Honestly, if he gets to 40% from 3, continues to improve his ballhandling and continues to show the degree of hustle we saw at the end of SL, he would be a star, at least from an advanced stats perspective.

....and if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

This line of thought sounds eerily familiar with A LOT of failed NBA players. If so-and-so only increased their efficiency they would be great, if so-and-so only played defense they would be an all-star, if so-and-so only kept their head up when they drove the lane they would be a starter.

Im just tired of hoping year after year after year that these highly drafted youngsters FINALLY get it. At some point you have to admit to yourself that a guy isnt the player you thought he would be, wasnt as advertised pre-draft, didnt live up to the hype. We gave Len 5 years to show us he could be that guy.....and where is he now? Getting ready to play another season in a back-up role on a newly signed deal with the Hawks where he is making LESS MONEY than he did this past year with us.

........but you know, if only he could have defended a bit better and raised his FG% to around 60%......

I totally get what you mean. But your aunt can't physically become your uncle unless she has functioning testicles that produce testosterone naturally. I'm sure there's surgeries blah blah but the point is, we're not asking Bender to be something he *can't* be or something that is really outside of his reach.

Bender shot a poor .277 from the 3 in his rookie season when his playing time was sporadic to say the least and wasn't shooting well for the most part but there were flashes.

In his 2nd season where he saw more consistent playing time, he shot .366 from the 3. Still not elite but last season, players who shot at least 3 per game and attempted at least 200 for the season (my baseline for measuring a big man 3PT shooter), he was ranked 14th out of 24 big men who made this list. In terms of overall attempts, he ranked 8th (for attempts and makes) behind guys like Saric, Markennan, Love and Dirk. Is he an elite shooter? No. Is he a great shooter? No. But is he a good 3PT shooting big? I would argue yes.

The difference between Bender shooting .366 and .400 last season was about 10 makes.

I agree with everything else about his ball handling, defense and confidence all needing to improve but if we're only looking for him to be a good shooter on the field, I don't think we're asking for the world. With another added offensive presence in Ayton, I think he's on track to be a really good shooter. The difference between being an above average big man shooter like he is now and being a damn good one isn't the gulf you might think it is.

[KLEON]

So a sharp shooter like Jimmer Fredette is not in the NBA but yet they have a bunch of scrubs with 20 mil a year contracts in the league.

[lilfishi22]

So a sharp shooter like Jimmer Fredette is not in the NBA but yet they have a bunch of scrubs with 20 mil a year contracts in the league.

The reality is that a guard who doesn't pass, isn't efficient offensively and has no team concept just doesn't have a role in the NBA. Brandon Knight is nearing that status

[PHXDraft0358]

What confuses me is how every Pick (Lottery or not) is expected to be a star by fans when there’s really only so many in League, let alone Team?? and/or how high Picks are failures if they don’t start?? There’s only 5 starters a Game per Team...

Booker, Ayton, Warren, Jackson, Bridges, Bender, Chriss, Okobo, and Reed - that’s a pretty good collection of young Drafted talent!! I also can’t believe some fans don’t want to pick up Team options for Chriss/Bender - not every Pick will be home run and I think it’d be unwise to cut either for a few Million of cap space to throw at some aged veteran McDonough seems to covet nearly every year (Chandler, Dudley, Teletovic, Barbosa, Ariza, etc.) yikes.

[Qwigglez]

I don't think comparing Bender to Len is even close to being the same thing. Len is a traditional center who has stone hands, while Bender is a versatile 7 footer, capable of handling the ball and shooting above average from 3-point range. I think under Koko, Bender will have a breakout year. I'm not talking some crazy eye-popping numbers, but just having a positive impact on the floor that translates to wins. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 12 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3 assist, 38% from 3. He should be shooting at least 5 3's a game. Bender doesn't have to be a star, he just needs to be productive, and with the correct system I think he can contribute.

[bigfoot]

I don't think comparing Bender to Len is even close to being the same thing. Len is a traditional center who has stone hands, while Bender is a versatile 7 footer, capable of handling the ball and shooting above average from 3-point range. I think under Koko, Bender will have a breakout year. I'm not talking some crazy eye-popping numbers, but just having a positive impact on the floor that translates to wins. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 12 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3 assist, 38% from 3. He should be shooting at least 5 3's a game. Bender doesn't have to be a star, he just needs to be productive, and with the correct system I think he can contribute.

Yeah that was kind of the numbers I was thinking Bender could have this year too. Maybe even a few more rebounds. Those numbers don't look like star stats when Booker and Ayton are expected to be your top two offensive threats. The big key is being a plus defender.

[BobbieL]

What confuses me is how every Pick (Lottery or not) is expected to be a star by fans when there’s really only so many in League, let alone Team?? and/or how high Picks are failures if they don’t start?? There’s only 5 starters a Game per Team...

Booker, Ayton, Warren, Jackson, Bridges, Bender, Chriss, Okobo, and Reed - that’s a pretty good collection of young Drafted talent!! I also can’t believe some fans don’t want to pick up Team options for Chriss/Bender - not every Pick will be home run and I think it’d be unwise to cut either for a few Million of cap space to throw at some aged veteran McDonough seems to covet nearly every year (Chandler, Dudley, Teletovic, Barbosa, Ariza, etc.) yikes.

Right now - I have Booker, Ayton, Jackson and Bridges as the Core 4
Warren as a solid player off the bench - a scoring 6th man type
Okobo - tbd
if Bender or Chriss become rotational players off the bench, at this point, it is what it is

I know the Warriors were excellent in their drafting from 2009-2012; and still continue to draft well with McCaw and Bell but they also had a pretty big bust in 2010, 6th pick in the draft... so it happens....

[Fo-Real]

I don't think comparing Bender to Len is even close to being the same thing. Len is a traditional center who has stone hands, while Bender is a versatile 7 footer, capable of handling the ball and shooting above average from 3-point range. I think under Koko, Bender will have a breakout year. I'm not talking some crazy eye-popping numbers, but just having a positive impact on the floor that translates to wins. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 12 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3 assist, 38% from 3. He should be shooting at least 5 3's a game. Bender doesn't have to be a star, he just needs to be productive, and with the correct system I think he can contribute.

I think the comparisons were each was picked high ( Bender 4th and Len 5th), when you pick in that range you expect to get an impact player if not right away at least in the near future. Also the fact that after each failing to initially live up to even near expatiation, neither seem to progress at the rate that anyone would hope. Actually the comparison is not far off in the fact that just like Len, the Suns are in the position of it being questioned if the option will be picked up on another high yet disappointing draft pick. Much like I hoped Len would work out his demons, I also hope Bender will, If Koko can make that happen I would be thrilled. I also hoped coaches, styles, vets like Chandler would help Len every different year and that has left me holding the bag. Its not about positions played, its about being on the same trajectory so far as brief flashes of good followed with blinding lasting blasts of failure from each, and Len is gone because of it. Same for Chriss, I hope as I always do that Chriss and Bender get their **** together (Im higher on Chriss than others, think he winds up better, and has been since the begining since he started over him from jump), but I hope they both find their mojo. Each has had brief flashes of not suckage, hope those flashes can be extended by good coaching, teammates, and system.

[bwgood77]

Moving Bender would be huge mistake. He's a plus on defense and can hit the three. He can play either PF or C in at least a backup roll. Add in the fact that he is still the second youngest player on the team, only slightly older than Ayton, and has a lot of room for developmental improvement. He's not going to be a star but you don't just throw away big men who can shoot the three.

Honestly, if he gets to 40% from 3, continues to improve his ballhandling and continues to show the degree of hustle we saw at the end of SL, he would be a star, at least from an advanced stats perspective.

....and if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

This line of thought sounds eerily familiar with A LOT of failed NBA players. If so-and-so only increased their efficiency they would be great, if so-and-so only played defense they would be an all-star, if so-and-so only kept their head up when they drove the lane they would be a starter.

Im just tired of hoping year after year after year that these highly drafted youngsters FINALLY get it. At some point you have to admit to yourself that a guy isnt the player you thought he would be, wasnt as advertised pre-draft, didnt live up to the hype. We gave Len 5 years to show us he could be that guy.....and where is he now? Getting ready to play another season in a back-up role on a newly signed deal with the Hawks where he is making LESS MONEY than he did this past year with us.

........but you know, if only he could have defended a bit better and raised his FG% to around 60%......

I mean, heck, you can say the same thing about Jackson....well, I guess we are...if he can only get that shot, take care of the ball, slow down, improve defensively, etc....

But he's young...not as young as Bender of course, but young. It's still early and they finally have a new coach.

[Fo-Real]

Honestly, if he gets to 40% from 3, continues to improve his ballhandling and continues to show the degree of hustle we saw at the end of SL, he would be a star, at least from an advanced stats perspective.

....and if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

This line of thought sounds eerily familiar with A LOT of failed NBA players. If so-and-so only increased their efficiency they would be great, if so-and-so only played defense they would be an all-star, if so-and-so only kept their head up when they drove the lane they would be a starter.

Im just tired of hoping year after year after year that these highly drafted youngsters FINALLY get it. At some point you have to admit to yourself that a guy isnt the player you thought he would be, wasnt as advertised pre-draft, didnt live up to the hype. We gave Len 5 years to show us he could be that guy.....and where is he now? Getting ready to play another season in a back-up role on a newly signed deal with the Hawks where he is making LESS MONEY than he did this past year with us.

........but you know, if only he could have defended a bit better and raised his FG% to around 60%......

I mean, heck, you can say the same thing about Jackson....well, I guess we are...if he can only get that shot, take care of the ball, slow down, improve defensively, etc....

But he's young...not as young as Bender of course, but young. It's still early and they finally have a new coach.

Should also remain true for Chriss.

[Saberestar]

I don't think comparing Bender to Len is even close to being the same thing. Len is a traditional center who has stone hands, while Bender is a versatile 7 footer, capable of handling the ball and shooting above average from 3-point range. I think under Koko, Bender will have a breakout year. I'm not talking some crazy eye-popping numbers, but just having a positive impact on the floor that translates to wins. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 12 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3 assist, 38% from 3. He should be shooting at least 5 3's a game. Bender doesn't have to be a star, he just needs to be productive, and with the correct system I think he can contribute.

Those stats would be outstanding for Bender.

I think he would need to play more than 40 mpg to average those numbers. He has averaged around 9 ppg per 36 minutes in his first two seasons in the league. And he received gifted minutes...this season his role is gonna be smaller.

And look at his numbers in the last Summer League...seriously those numbers would be AMAZING.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I don't think comparing Bender to Len is even close to being the same thing. Len is a traditional center who has stone hands, while Bender is a versatile 7 footer, capable of handling the ball and shooting above average from 3-point range. I think under Koko, Bender will have a breakout year. I'm not talking some crazy eye-popping numbers, but just having a positive impact on the floor that translates to wins. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 12 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3 assist, 38% from 3. He should be shooting at least 5 3's a game. Bender doesn't have to be a star, he just needs to be productive, and with the correct system I think he can contribute.

Those stats would be outstanding for Bender.

I think he would need to play more than 40 mpg to average those numbers. He has averaged around 9 ppg per 36 minutes in his first two seasons in the league. And he received gifted minutes...this season his role is gonna be smaller.

And look at his numbers in the last Summer League...seriously those numbers would be AMAZING.

Bender could get to 12 PPG without much difficulty if he is encouraged to take every open 3 (as he was during SL).

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Read on Twitter

God bless the NBA for shortening the offseason. We should be getting news about camp and player development some time in the third week of September.

JJ needs to focus on taking catch-and-shoot jumpers and intangibles, limiting his FGAs for now.

TJ needs to focus on taking open threes.... and that's about it.

Bender needs to keep doing what he's doing. I saw substantial improvement the last few games of SL. Keep adding muscle.

Chriss needs to spend time in the film room with a focus on defensive positioning, adding upper-body strength and learning to finish strong, improve his ball handling, and develop a go-to move on offense, whether that be in the post or the mid-range.

Deandre needs to focus on conditioning, lower-body strength, and using his body to create space for himself in the post.

Mikal needs to keep doing what he's doing, getting comfortable with NBA 3FG distance.

Booker needs to focus on conditioning, reading defenses to better create for his teammates, and catch-and-shoot jumpers.

Okobo needs to add strength and learn to read NBA defenses and offenses.

Knight needs to work on throwing lob passes, positioning himself to hit threes instead of long-twos, and staying calm on offense and defense.

Shaq needs to focus on the 3 ball and making better entry passes.

Reed and King just need to keep doing what they're doing. One of these guys (likely King) will be our "fourth wing" going forward, and the other (likely Reed) should eventually be traded for value.

Holmes needs to work on conditioning and strength to improve his durability. A respectable 3 point shot would be gravy.

....... Can't wait for stories on all our players' progress and more in September/October!!

[Saberestar]

I don't think comparing Bender to Len is even close to being the same thing. Len is a traditional center who has stone hands, while Bender is a versatile 7 footer, capable of handling the ball and shooting above average from 3-point range. I think under Koko, Bender will have a breakout year. I'm not talking some crazy eye-popping numbers, but just having a positive impact on the floor that translates to wins. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 12 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3 assist, 38% from 3. He should be shooting at least 5 3's a game. Bender doesn't have to be a star, he just needs to be productive, and with the correct system I think he can contribute.

Those stats would be outstanding for Bender.

I think he would need to play more than 40 mpg to average those numbers. He has averaged around 9 ppg per 36 minutes in his first two seasons in the league. And he received gifted minutes...this season his role is gonna be smaller.

And look at his numbers in the last Summer League...seriously those numbers would be AMAZING.

Bender could get to 12 PPG without much difficulty if he is encouraged to take every open 3 (as he was during SL).

Bender averaged 6.6 points, 5.2 rebounds and 0.4 assists in 22.2 mpg in Summer League.

Do you think that he is gonna play more than 22 minutes per game during the regular season?

And do you think that he is gonna have more opportunities to score or create with players like Booker, Warren, Knight and Ariza on the roster?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Those stats would be outstanding for Bender.

I think he would need to play more than 40 mpg to average those numbers. He has averaged around 9 ppg per 36 minutes in his first two seasons in the league. And he received gifted minutes...this season his role is gonna be smaller.

And look at his numbers in the last Summer League...seriously those numbers would be AMAZING.

Bender could get to 12 PPG without much difficulty if he is encouraged to take every open 3 (as he was during SL).

Bender averaged 6.6 points, 5.2 rebounds and 0.4 assists in 22.2 mpg in Summer League.

Do you think that he is gonna play more than 22 minutes per game during the regular season?

And do you think that he is gonna have more opportunities to score or create with players like Booker, Warren, Knight and Ariza on the roster?

I think it'll take another year and about 28 MPG, but yeah. FWIW, Ariza's a low-usage player, and I expect Knight and Warren will shoot somewhat less than we've seen in prior years.

[bwgood77]

Those stats would be outstanding for Bender.

I think he would need to play more than 40 mpg to average those numbers. He has averaged around 9 ppg per 36 minutes in his first two seasons in the league. And he received gifted minutes...this season his role is gonna be smaller.

And look at his numbers in the last Summer League...seriously those numbers would be AMAZING.

Bender could get to 12 PPG without much difficulty if he is encouraged to take every open 3 (as he was during SL).

Bender averaged 6.6 points, 5.2 rebounds and 0.4 assists in 22.2 mpg in Summer League.

Do you think that he is gonna play more than 22 minutes per game during the regular season?

And do you think that he is gonna have more opportunities to score or create with players like Booker, Warren, Knight and Ariza on the roster?

I don't really care how many points he averages if he plays hard, shoots well from distance, and defends well. I would guess something more like 7 or 8 ppg with 2 apg and 3 or 4 rebounds, but on solid shooting %. But maybe per 36 of 15, 8 and 4 or a tad less. But if he can give us 15-20 minutes of hitting shots and defending well, moving the ball, that works for me. If he's better, great.

I still think in time he could do quite a bit more if he has the will to do so, and I think he could if his role is expanded.

[jcsunsfan]

I don't think comparing Bender to Len is even close to being the same thing. Len is a traditional center who has stone hands, while Bender is a versatile 7 footer, capable of handling the ball and shooting above average from 3-point range. I think under Koko, Bender will have a breakout year. I'm not talking some crazy eye-popping numbers, but just having a positive impact on the floor that translates to wins. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 12 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3 assist, 38% from 3. He should be shooting at least 5 3's a game. Bender doesn't have to be a star, he just needs to be productive, and with the correct system I think he can contribute.

I think the comparisons were each was picked high ( Bender 4th and Len 5th), when you pick in that range you expect to get an impact player if not right away at least in the near future. Also the fact that after each failing to initially live up to even near expatiation, neither seem to progress at the rate that anyone would hope. Actually the comparison is not far off in the fact that just like Len, the Suns are in the position of it being questioned if the option will be picked up on another high yet disappointing draft pick. Much like I hoped Len would work out his demons, I also hope Bender will, If Koko can make that happen I would be thrilled. I also hoped coaches, styles, vets like Chandler would help Len every different year and that has left me holding the bag. Its not about positions played, its about being on the same trajectory so far as brief flashes of good followed with blinding lasting blasts of failure from each, and Len is gone because of it. Same for Chriss, I hope as I always do that Chriss and Bender get their **** together (Im higher on Chriss than others, think he winds up better, and has been since the begining since he started over him from jump), but I hope they both find their mojo. Each has had brief flashes of not suckage, hope those flashes can be extended by good coaching, teammates, and system.

You have to forget about where the player was drafted and determine if he is useful or not. A big man who shoots 37% from three is useful.

[phnart]

Bender....Chriss....both total underachievers. I can't wait for the day when we have something better to discuss.