Mario or Gordon.

[ralphie9898]

No matter which player you like better, the bottom line is this. Mario will outplay his contract number, and AG will be lucky to play up to his. I'd much rather have Mario here playing a needed position, and having that starting pg that AG would have brought us.

What PG? So trading Gordon would not surely get us what you think we could get. And oh by the way we couldn't trade Gordon as he was a FA. Sign and trades don't happen very often and they usually don't involve two stars. Rather it is more about getting something back rather then losing that free agent. but he was restricted so very few even were interested and no one actually signed him to an offer sheet. Yeah Gordon may not play to his contract but he still is better then Mario at this point and yeah there is a large gulf in between there deals for a reason. Plus there is no guarantee that Mario will outplay his contract. Sure he ould but there is hardly a guarantee that he will.

[spinedoc]

No matter which player you like better, the bottom line is this. Mario will outplay his contract number, and AG will be lucky to play up to his. I'd much rather have Mario here playing a needed position, and having that starting pg that AG would have brought us.

What PG? So trading Gordon would not surely get us what you think we could get. And oh by the way we couldn't trade Gordon as he was a FA. Sign and trades don't happen very often and they usually don't involve two stars. Rather it is more about getting something back rather then losing that free agent. but he was restricted so very few even were interested and no one actually signed him to an offer sheet. Yeah Gordon may not play to his contract but he still is better then Mario at this point and yeah there is a large gulf in between there deals for a reason. Plus there is no guarantee that Mario will outplay his contract. Sure he ould but there is hardly a guarantee that he will.

You could absolutely sign and trade AG. It would have to be a team over the cap who couldn't afford to sign him to an offer sheet. I haven't thorougly researched all 29 teams or called them to see what was available. A couple names in the news like Schroder and Smart come to mind, but I was also interested in Wiggins to fill another need. I wouldn't have resigned and kept a redundent asset like Gordon, and yes by default would have kept Mario even if he turned out to be a backup. I believe AG could have gone a long way to get us Kemba though, maybe even Rozier or a double sign and trade of Vanfleet. I would have found something better either way, but all I can go by is the final product for this year. I'm not happy with the way this team is being built currently. By doing what we did, we are now going to risk stunting JI. So, to me its a ripple effect that has more consequences.

[Xatticus]

Yeah. AG played more minutes his second year in the nba than Mario played last season even with half the team being injured.

I don't agree with that move at all, but it made sense as soon as we declined his option that they simply don't really care how many minutes he got because he would most likely be gone at the end of the season. Add in the fact that we paid Simmons and they had a bit of positional overlap, even more reason to screw him over.

The issue was not playing him BEFORE his contract extension. Even if he was "bad" for a bit, you never want to go into a situation not knowing if you want to extend your player or not.

This.

It's unconscionable that you commit to rebuilding and somehow manage not to find enough court time for one of your prime assets to make a sound decision as to whether or not to pick up their fourth year option.

I'm baffled by those that have defended our policy of deferring to marginal talents simply because they are further along on their developmental timelines. This is why we are stuck in this quagmire.

I'm trying to reserve judgment on our new front office, but it is becoming increasingly difficult for me to do so. They clearly do not have a plan beyond waiting out the bad contracts and building through the draft. This sounds reasonable enough, but it really only reflects a lack of direction.

Meanwhile, we have hired our third successive head coach with a deeply ingrained shortsightedness. How many games we win this season is inconsequential. Our future is tied to the development of our precious few young talents, but unfortunately our roster is chock-full of veterans upon which an unimaginative disciplinarian can and will lean on.

[pepe1991]

Yeah. AG played more minutes his second year in the nba than Mario played last season even with half the team being injured.

I don't agree with that move at all, but it made sense as soon as we declined his option that they simply don't really care how many minutes he got because he would most likely be gone at the end of the season. Add in the fact that we paid Simmons and they had a bit of positional overlap, even more reason to screw him over.

The issue was not playing him BEFORE his contract extension. Even if he was "bad" for a bit, you never want to go into a situation not knowing if you want to extend your player or not.

This.

It's unconscionable that you commit to rebuilding and somehow manage not to find enough court time for one of your prime assets to make a sound decision as to whether or not to pick up their fourth year option.

I'm baffled by those that have defended our policy of deferring to marginal talents simply because they are further along on their developmental timelines. This is why we are stuck in this quagmire.

I'm trying to reserve judgment on our new front office, but it is becoming increasingly difficult for me to do so. They clearly do not have a plan beyond waiting out the bad contracts and building through the draft. This sounds reasonable enough, but it really only reflects a lack of direction.

Meanwhile, we have hired our third successive head coach with a deeply ingrained shortsightedness. How many games we win this season is inconsequential. Our future is tied to the development of our precious few young talents, but unfortunately our roster is chock-full of veterans upon which an unimaginative disciplinarian can and will lean on.

I was pretty vocal in past about lot of your points.

Entering 7th year of rebuild, opening starting line up for Magic will probably look like this:
10 years vet at PG
6 years vet at SG
6 years vet at SF
5 years vet at PF ( notorius untapped potential guy )
7 years old vet at C

bench: 28 years old Simmons and ,25 years old Grant , and i guess two rookies from last 2 trips to lottery.

Guys like Briscoe, Fraizer and others will all find themselfs watching from outside looking in.

I guess you can milk money and do nothing and just call every year " evaluation year" as excuse for sitting on hands during FA and trade season.
" You wanted to get rid of Biyombo, no problem here is fan service trade to land player on same contract, who actually might be worst player, older for sure, with lengt of a contract same as guy you didn't like " .

[VFX]

I don't agree with that move at all, but it made sense as soon as we declined his option that they simply don't really care how many minutes he got because he would most likely be gone at the end of the season. Add in the fact that we paid Simmons and they had a bit of positional overlap, even more reason to screw him over.

The issue was not playing him BEFORE his contract extension. Even if he was "bad" for a bit, you never want to go into a situation not knowing if you want to extend your player or not.

This.

It's unconscionable that you commit to rebuilding and somehow manage not to find enough court time for one of your prime assets to make a sound decision as to whether or not to pick up their fourth year option.

I'm baffled by those that have defended our policy of deferring to marginal talents simply because they are further along on their developmental timelines. This is why we are stuck in this quagmire.

I'm trying to reserve judgment on our new front office, but it is becoming increasingly difficult for me to do so. They clearly do not have a plan beyond waiting out the bad contracts and building through the draft. This sounds reasonable enough, but it really only reflects a lack of direction.

Meanwhile, we have hired our third successive head coach with a deeply ingrained shortsightedness. How many games we win this season is inconsequential. Our future is tied to the development of our precious few young talents, but unfortunately our roster is chock-full of veterans upon which an unimaginative disciplinarian can and will lean on.

I was pretty vocal in past about lot of your points.

Entering 7th year of rebuild, opening starting line up for Magic will probably look like this:
10 years vet at PG
6 years vet at SG
6 years vet at SF
5 years vet at PF ( notorius untapped potential guy )
7 years old vet at C

bench: 28 years old Simmons and ,25 years old Grant , and i guess two rookies from last 2 trips to lottery.

Guys like Briscoe, Fraizer and others will all find themselfs watching from outside looking in.

I guess you can milk money and do nothing and just call every year " evaluation year" as excuse for sitting on hands during FA and trade season.
" You wanted to get rid of Biyombo, no problem here is fan service trade to land player on same contract, who actually might be worst player, older for sure, with lengt of a contract same as guy you didn't like " .

Agreed. Like others have said, nobody expects Bamba and Isaac to play 35mpg, but there are definitely other organizations that have zero issue with giving out large amounts of minutes to rookies and young guys. I fail to see the drawback to throwing them into the fire. It’s not like the playoffs are really in the picture.

[MagicFan101]

This.

It's unconscionable that you commit to rebuilding and somehow manage not to find enough court time for one of your prime assets to make a sound decision as to whether or not to pick up their fourth year option.

I'm baffled by those that have defended our policy of deferring to marginal talents simply because they are further along on their developmental timelines. This is why we are stuck in this quagmire.

I'm trying to reserve judgment on our new front office, but it is becoming increasingly difficult for me to do so. They clearly do not have a plan beyond waiting out the bad contracts and building through the draft. This sounds reasonable enough, but it really only reflects a lack of direction.

Meanwhile, we have hired our third successive head coach with a deeply ingrained shortsightedness. How many games we win this season is inconsequential. Our future is tied to the development of our precious few young talents, but unfortunately our roster is chock-full of veterans upon which an unimaginative disciplinarian can and will lean on.

I was pretty vocal in past about lot of your points.

Entering 7th year of rebuild, opening starting line up for Magic will probably look like this:
10 years vet at PG
6 years vet at SG
6 years vet at SF
5 years vet at PF ( notorius untapped potential guy )
7 years old vet at C

bench: 28 years old Simmons and ,25 years old Grant , and i guess two rookies from last 2 trips to lottery.

Guys like Briscoe, Fraizer and others will all find themselfs watching from outside looking in.

I guess you can milk money and do nothing and just call every year " evaluation year" as excuse for sitting on hands during FA and trade season.
" You wanted to get rid of Biyombo, no problem here is fan service trade to land player on same contract, who actually might be worst player, older for sure, with lengt of a contract same as guy you didn't like " .

Agreed. Like others have said, nobody expects Bamba and Isaac to play 35mpg, but there are definitely other organizations that have zero issue with giving out large amounts of minutes to rookies and young guys. I fail to see the drawback to throwing them into the fire. It’s not like the playoffs are really in the picture.

I don’t expect to see heavy playing time from Bamba this season but Clifford has little to do with it.

For one, Vuc still being here plays a role and we need to give him some playing time if we want to try and squeeze something out for him in a trade. That is an upper management thing, not a coaching decision.

But more importantly, I really don’t see Bamba surviving heavy minutes for 82 games. He is going to need games off and minute restrictions through much of the early part of the season. I’m all for making him push through it but, like with Isaac, the doctors will step in at times and say he just can’t go.

15-17 mpg in about 60 games played seems right to me. But my hope is that these are not consistent trends throughout the season. I hope to see heavy utilization after the trade deadline. Vuc is hopefully gone and Bamba has had a decent amount of time with NBA trainers to better handle the pro game. But a slow start to his season would bring the overall averages down.

[pepe1991]

I was pretty vocal in past about lot of your points.

Entering 7th year of rebuild, opening starting line up for Magic will probably look like this:
10 years vet at PG
6 years vet at SG
6 years vet at SF
5 years vet at PF ( notorius untapped potential guy )
7 years old vet at C

bench: 28 years old Simmons and ,25 years old Grant , and i guess two rookies from last 2 trips to lottery.

Guys like Briscoe, Fraizer and others will all find themselfs watching from outside looking in.

I guess you can milk money and do nothing and just call every year " evaluation year" as excuse for sitting on hands during FA and trade season.
" You wanted to get rid of Biyombo, no problem here is fan service trade to land player on same contract, who actually might be worst player, older for sure, with lengt of a contract same as guy you didn't like " .

Agreed. Like others have said, nobody expects Bamba and Isaac to play 35mpg, but there are definitely other organizations that have zero issue with giving out large amounts of minutes to rookies and young guys. I fail to see the drawback to throwing them into the fire. It’s not like the playoffs are really in the picture.

I don’t expect to see heavy playing time from Bamba this season but Clifford has little to do with it.

For one, Vuc still being here plays a role and we need to give him some playing time if we want to try and squeeze something out for him in a trade. That is an upper management thing, not a coaching decision.

But more importantly, I really don’t see Bamba surviving heavy minutes for 82 games. He is going to need games off and minute restrictions through much of the early part of the season. I’m all for making him push through it but, like with Isaac, the doctors will step in at times and say he just can’t go.

15-17 mpg in about 60 games played seems right to me. But my hope is that these are not consistent trends throughout the season. I hope to see heavy utilization after the trade deadline. Vuc is hopefully gone and Bamba has had a decent amount of time with NBA trainers to better handle the pro game. But a slow start to his season would bring the overall averages down.

Most of us have bigger issue how Magic youth is being used when they are actually in the game.
Raw mpg mean nothing ,you could give dude 20 mpg and just skip him on offense all the time.
Hezonja,Gordon, Isaac all saw same issue during first few seasons, they were never part of offense, just there as excuse for playing youth.
we already saw Bamba being ignored in summer league.

Also that 15-17 min means nothing if it's distributed in bad way. You can play somebody 5 mpg to DNP for first 40 games and just throw him in last 20 games for 30 min and at end of a season he will still get 15-17 mpg without actually playing meaningful basketball.

[Skin]

Yeah. AG played more minutes his second year in the nba than Mario played last season even with half the team being injured.

I don't agree with that move at all, but it made sense as soon as we declined his option that they simply don't really care how many minutes he got because he would most likely be gone at the end of the season. Add in the fact that we paid Simmons and they had a bit of positional overlap, even more reason to screw him over.

The issue was not playing him BEFORE his contract extension. Even if he was "bad" for a bit, you never want to go into a situation not knowing if you want to extend your player or not.

This.

It's unconscionable that you commit to rebuilding and somehow manage not to find enough court time for one of your prime assets to make a sound decision as to whether or not to pick up their fourth year option.

I'm baffled by those that have defended our policy of deferring to marginal talents simply because they are further along on their developmental timelines. This is why we are stuck in this quagmire.

I'm trying to reserve judgment on our new front office, but it is becoming increasingly difficult for me to do so. They clearly do not have a plan beyond waiting out the bad contracts and building through the draft. This sounds reasonable enough, but it really only reflects a lack of direction.

Meanwhile, we have hired our third successive head coach with a deeply ingrained shortsightedness. How many games we win this season is inconsequential. Our future is tied to the development of our precious few young talents, but unfortunately our roster is chock-full of veterans upon which an unimaginative disciplinarian can and will lean on.

These are legitimately my fears, but I'm trying to take a different POV. If only to save my sanity... I did hate the Clifford hire initially. My gut says he's just going to bring a Van Gundy/Skiles-like playing strategy to the team which is heavily reliant on vets.

On the other hand, he's said things that have softened my fears. First, he said that he likes to think of himself as a Teacher first. That means a lot to me know that's where his primary mindset is. If our young guys aren't playing, at least I know that they are being coached up behind the scenes. I don't think that was really happening with Mario and AG to the extent that it should have under Skiles and Vogel.

He told AG that one of his first goals should be to try to get on the 1st Team All NBA Defense. He specifically told AG that if he had an equally efficient offensive year as last year and made the All-NBA Defensive 1st team this year then that would help him and the team in making a big step forward. LOVED hearing that!

The other thing that encourages me is that we have a Front Office that wants to see their young guys play. MIL reacted quickly in playing Brogdon and Maker. Isaac was getting minutes until he got hurt. Our guys will not start coming out of the gates, but I think/hope they will get enough playing time to spread their wings this season. Our Isaac/Bamba defensive front court was a thing of beauty in SL. I don't think Vuc will be able to gobble up all the minutes and hold Bamba down for long. Not with this defensive minded coach...

and btw, while he's been heavily mentored by the Van Gundy's and is known for defense, he's also given credit to Mike D'Antoni, Don Cheany and Mike Brown who he's also worked for, as being influential in his coaching style. Nice balance between offensive heavy and defensive heavy systems.

[MagicFan101]

Agreed. Like others have said, nobody expects Bamba and Isaac to play 35mpg, but there are definitely other organizations that have zero issue with giving out large amounts of minutes to rookies and young guys. I fail to see the drawback to throwing them into the fire. It’s not like the playoffs are really in the picture.

I don’t expect to see heavy playing time from Bamba this season but Clifford has little to do with it.

For one, Vuc still being here plays a role and we need to give him some playing time if we want to try and squeeze something out for him in a trade. That is an upper management thing, not a coaching decision.

But more importantly, I really don’t see Bamba surviving heavy minutes for 82 games. He is going to need games off and minute restrictions through much of the early part of the season. I’m all for making him push through it but, like with Isaac, the doctors will step in at times and say he just can’t go.

15-17 mpg in about 60 games played seems right to me. But my hope is that these are not consistent trends throughout the season. I hope to see heavy utilization after the trade deadline. Vuc is hopefully gone and Bamba has had a decent amount of time with NBA trainers to better handle the pro game. But a slow start to his season would bring the overall averages down.

Most of us have bigger issue how Magic youth is being used when they are actually in the game.
Raw mpg mean nothing ,you could give dude 20 mpg and just skip him on offense all the time.
Hezonja,Gordon, Isaac all saw same issue during first few seasons, they were never part of offense, just there as excuse for playing youth.
we already saw Bamba being ignored in summer league.

Also that 15-17 min means nothing if it's distributed in bad way. You can play somebody 5 mpg to DNP for first 40 games and just throw him in last 20 games for 30 min and at end of a season he will still get 15-17 mpg without actually playing meaningful basketball.

What does any of that have to do with my point?

Reguardless... If you watched summer league you would see leadership clearly has no intention of holding Isaac back offensively. It’s one thing to showcase someone in summer league and entirely different thing to do so in the regular season. No, I don’t believe Isaac with be the #1 or #2 option but he will be a key piece.

Bamba on the other hand has a long way to go offensively and physically. I expect his rookie season to go much like Isaac’s ... and that is perfectly fine.

[VFX]

I don’t expect to see heavy playing time from Bamba this season but Clifford has little to do with it.

For one, Vuc still being here plays a role and we need to give him some playing time if we want to try and squeeze something out for him in a trade. That is an upper management thing, not a coaching decision.

But more importantly, I really don’t see Bamba surviving heavy minutes for 82 games. He is going to need games off and minute restrictions through much of the early part of the season. I’m all for making him push through it but, like with Isaac, the doctors will step in at times and say he just can’t go.

15-17 mpg in about 60 games played seems right to me. But my hope is that these are not consistent trends throughout the season. I hope to see heavy utilization after the trade deadline. Vuc is hopefully gone and Bamba has had a decent amount of time with NBA trainers to better handle the pro game. But a slow start to his season would bring the overall averages down.

Most of us have bigger issue how Magic youth is being used when they are actually in the game.
Raw mpg mean nothing ,you could give dude 20 mpg and just skip him on offense all the time.
Hezonja,Gordon, Isaac all saw same issue during first few seasons, they were never part of offense, just there as excuse for playing youth.
we already saw Bamba being ignored in summer league.

Also that 15-17 min means nothing if it's distributed in bad way. You can play somebody 5 mpg to DNP for first 40 games and just throw him in last 20 games for 30 min and at end of a season he will still get 15-17 mpg without actually playing meaningful basketball.

What does any of that have to do with my point?

Reguardless... If you watched summer league you would see leadership clearly has no intention of holding Isaac back offensively. It’s one thing to showcase someone in summer league and entirely different thing to do so in the regular season. No, I don’t believe Isaac with be the #1 or #2 option but he will be a key piece.

Bamba on the other hand has a long way to go offensively and physically. I expect his rookie season to go much like Isaac’s ... and that is perfectly fine.

I think the primary issue with the roster as it stands it that I don’t see how Clifford doesn't use Vuc as an option on offense. Moreover, I don’t see where the production comes from reliably otherwise outside of everyone’s favorite combo of Fournier and Vuc. Which is why I’m not buying what Clifford is selling. Unless pieces are moved, he is pretty much given the green light to continue business as usual.

That’s the problem I have with the roster as of now. Nothing offensively has been addressed whatsoever apart from losing Mario and promoting a career backup over EP, which isn’t saying much. I get that people will ask “what were they supposed to do?”, but the answer to that question is quite frankly - anything to diverge from what hasn’t worked up to this point.

[MagicFan101]

Most of us have bigger issue how Magic youth is being used when they are actually in the game.
Raw mpg mean nothing ,you could give dude 20 mpg and just skip him on offense all the time.
Hezonja,Gordon, Isaac all saw same issue during first few seasons, they were never part of offense, just there as excuse for playing youth.
we already saw Bamba being ignored in summer league.

Also that 15-17 min means nothing if it's distributed in bad way. You can play somebody 5 mpg to DNP for first 40 games and just throw him in last 20 games for 30 min and at end of a season he will still get 15-17 mpg without actually playing meaningful basketball.

What does any of that have to do with my point?

Reguardless... If you watched summer league you would see leadership clearly has no intention of holding Isaac back offensively. It’s one thing to showcase someone in summer league and entirely different thing to do so in the regular season. No, I don’t believe Isaac with be the #1 or #2 option but he will be a key piece.

Bamba on the other hand has a long way to go offensively and physically. I expect his rookie season to go much like Isaac’s ... and that is perfectly fine.

I think the primary issue with the roster as it stands it that I don’t see how Clifford doesn't use Vuc as an option on offense. Moreover, I don’t see where the production comes from reliably otherwise outside of everyone’s favorite combo of Fournier and Vuc. Which is why I’m not buying what Clifford is selling. Unless pieces are moved, he is pretty much given the green light to continue business as usual.

That’s the problem I have with the roster as of now. Nothing offensively has been addressed whatsoever apart from losing Mario and promoting a career backup over EP, which isn’t saying much. I get that people will ask “what were they supposed to do?”, but the answer to that question is quite frankly - anything to diverge from what hasn’t worked up to this point.

But my thinking is... who cares?

I would say their free agency decisions are as far away from the Henny line of thinking as can be. While small and subtle, they have done a lot which “diverges from what hasn’t worked to this point.”

Bamba is AT LEAST a year away from being ready to care about on offense and Vuc has AT MOST a year left with us. The timeline matches up well there. Patience.

Meanwhile, Isaac appears to be progressing towards a bigger role. So we won’t be sitting on our hands. The young talent will be growing.

But I agree with everyone that a little acceleration would be good to see. Finding a trade for Vuc would be great. I don’t expect the return some do but as long as it doesn’t commit us to long term deals we don’t want then I really don’t care what he gets us.

I like what we have seen from WeHam in free agency. I am interested in seeing what they can do with more than exceptions. So while I stand by a trade of Vuc, I want to reiterate the important or not taking back bad deals. Unless it’s a bad contract attached to a good pick or a star player of course.

[VFX]

What does any of that have to do with my point?

Reguardless... If you watched summer league you would see leadership clearly has no intention of holding Isaac back offensively. It’s one thing to showcase someone in summer league and entirely different thing to do so in the regular season. No, I don’t believe Isaac with be the #1 or #2 option but he will be a key piece.

Bamba on the other hand has a long way to go offensively and physically. I expect his rookie season to go much like Isaac’s ... and that is perfectly fine.

I think the primary issue with the roster as it stands it that I don’t see how Clifford doesn't use Vuc as an option on offense. Moreover, I don’t see where the production comes from reliably otherwise outside of everyone’s favorite combo of Fournier and Vuc. Which is why I’m not buying what Clifford is selling. Unless pieces are moved, he is pretty much given the green light to continue business as usual.

That’s the problem I have with the roster as of now. Nothing offensively has been addressed whatsoever apart from losing Mario and promoting a career backup over EP, which isn’t saying much. I get that people will ask “what were they supposed to do?”, but the answer to that question is quite frankly - anything to diverge from what hasn’t worked up to this point.

But my thinking is... who cares?

I would say their free agency decisions are as far away from the Henny line of thinking as can be. While small and subtle, they have done a lot which “diverges from what hasn’t worked to this point.”

Bamba is AT LEAST a year away from being ready to care about on offense and Vuc has AT MOST a year left with us. The timeline matches up well there. Patience.

Meanwhile, Isaac appears to be progressing towards a bigger role. So we won’t be sitting on our hands. The young talent will be growing.

But I agree with everyone that a little acceleration would be good to see. Finding a trade for Vuc would be great. I don’t expect the return some do but as long as it doesn’t commit us to long term deals we don’t want then I really don’t care what he gets us.

I like what we have seen from WeHam in free agency. I am interested in seeing what they can do with more than exceptions. So while I stand by a trade of Vuc, I want to reiterate the important or not taking back bad deals. Unless it’s a bad contract attached to a good pick or a star player of course.

Not saying Orlando should take on bad deals for the sake of it, but I also don’t necessarily believe Bamba will replace Vuc’s production outright for at least 2 seasons, like it or not. Maybe I just don’t see either Isaac or Bamba averaging ~18-20ppg for a while.

This team has relied on Vuc heavily -for the worse- for the last few seasons. Hopefully a trade can be made for Vuc that makes sense equal to the production Orlando will lose, or in future assets for a longer plan. Otherwise, we will get significantly less in return (or a more expensive contract) in free agency.

[Skin]

I think the primary issue with the roster as it stands it that I don’t see how Clifford doesn't use Vuc as an option on offense. Moreover, I don’t see where the production comes from reliably otherwise outside of everyone’s favorite combo of Fournier and Vuc. Which is why I’m not buying what Clifford is selling. Unless pieces are moved, he is pretty much given the green light to continue business as usual.

That’s the problem I have with the roster as of now. Nothing offensively has been addressed whatsoever apart from losing Mario and promoting a career backup over EP, which isn’t saying much. I get that people will ask “what were they supposed to do?”, but the answer to that question is quite frankly - anything to diverge from what hasn’t worked up to this point.

But my thinking is... who cares?

I would say their free agency decisions are as far away from the Henny line of thinking as can be. While small and subtle, they have done a lot which “diverges from what hasn’t worked to this point.”

Bamba is AT LEAST a year away from being ready to care about on offense and Vuc has AT MOST a year left with us. The timeline matches up well there. Patience.

Meanwhile, Isaac appears to be progressing towards a bigger role. So we won’t be sitting on our hands. The young talent will be growing.

But I agree with everyone that a little acceleration would be good to see. Finding a trade for Vuc would be great. I don’t expect the return some do but as long as it doesn’t commit us to long term deals we don’t want then I really don’t care what he gets us.

I like what we have seen from WeHam in free agency. I am interested in seeing what they can do with more than exceptions. So while I stand by a trade of Vuc, I want to reiterate the important or not taking back bad deals. Unless it’s a bad contract attached to a good pick or a star player of course.

Not saying Orlando should take on bad deals for the sake of it, but I also don’t necessarily believe Bamba will replace Vuc’s production outright for at least 2 seasons, like it or not. Maybe I just don’t see either Isaac or Bamba averaging ~18-20ppg for a while.

This team has relied on Vuc heavily -for the worse- for the last few seasons. Hopefully a trade can be made for Vuc that makes sense equal to the production Orlando will lose, or in future assets for a longer plan. Otherwise, we will get significantly less in return (or a more expensive contract) in free agency.

I've come to the conclusion that trading Vuc only makes sense if the money we are taking on doesn't interfere with our ability to be players in FA.

[VFX]

But my thinking is... who cares?

I would say their free agency decisions are as far away from the Henny line of thinking as can be. While small and subtle, they have done a lot which “diverges from what hasn’t worked to this point.”

Bamba is AT LEAST a year away from being ready to care about on offense and Vuc has AT MOST a year left with us. The timeline matches up well there. Patience.

Meanwhile, Isaac appears to be progressing towards a bigger role. So we won’t be sitting on our hands. The young talent will be growing.

But I agree with everyone that a little acceleration would be good to see. Finding a trade for Vuc would be great. I don’t expect the return some do but as long as it doesn’t commit us to long term deals we don’t want then I really don’t care what he gets us.

I like what we have seen from WeHam in free agency. I am interested in seeing what they can do with more than exceptions. So while I stand by a trade of Vuc, I want to reiterate the important or not taking back bad deals. Unless it’s a bad contract attached to a good pick or a star player of course.

Not saying Orlando should take on bad deals for the sake of it, but I also don’t necessarily believe Bamba will replace Vuc’s production outright for at least 2 seasons, like it or not. Maybe I just don’t see either Isaac or Bamba averaging ~18-20ppg for a while.

This team has relied on Vuc heavily -for the worse- for the last few seasons. Hopefully a trade can be made for Vuc that makes sense equal to the production Orlando will lose, or in future assets for a longer plan. Otherwise, we will get significantly less in return (or a more expensive contract) in free agency.

I've come to the conclusion that trading Vuc only makes sense if the money we are taking on doesn't interfere with our ability to be players in FA.

We aren’t players in FA regardless, unless it’s an absolute overpay. Players aren’t knocking down the door to mentor young players through a few playoff-less seasons of their prime.

[Skin]

Not saying Orlando should take on bad deals for the sake of it, but I also don’t necessarily believe Bamba will replace Vuc’s production outright for at least 2 seasons, like it or not. Maybe I just don’t see either Isaac or Bamba averaging ~18-20ppg for a while.

This team has relied on Vuc heavily -for the worse- for the last few seasons. Hopefully a trade can be made for Vuc that makes sense equal to the production Orlando will lose, or in future assets for a longer plan. Otherwise, we will get significantly less in return (or a more expensive contract) in free agency.

I've come to the conclusion that trading Vuc only makes sense if the money we are taking on doesn't interfere with our ability to be players in FA.

We aren’t players in FA regardless, unless it’s an absolute overpay. Players aren’t knocking down the door to mentor young players through a few playoff-less seasons of their prime.

Honestly, the only FA I'm concerned with is Terry Rozier. We don't need to be players for Klay or the like... they don't make sense for us. But a young player looking for their second contract. That's prime meat. If De'Angelo Russell is on the market then maybe him too.

If we trade Vuc for those guys, then that would be my exception for trading Vuc. Otherwise, nope. Need money to chase them in FA.

[MagicStarwipe]

Bamba's body is not going to break down just because Isaac battled injuries his whole rookie season. He's slender, but not as slender as Isaac was. And even if he was, being slender in this league doesn't necessarily correlate to having injury problems. People are just trying to justify him likely sitting on the bench unfairly this upcoming season.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

This.

It's unconscionable that you commit to rebuilding and somehow manage not to find enough court time for one of your prime assets to make a sound decision as to whether or not to pick up their fourth year option.

I'm baffled by those that have defended our policy of deferring to marginal talents simply because they are further along on their developmental timelines. This is why we are stuck in this quagmire.

I'm trying to reserve judgment on our new front office, but it is becoming increasingly difficult for me to do so. They clearly do not have a plan beyond waiting out the bad contracts and building through the draft. This sounds reasonable enough, but it really only reflects a lack of direction.

Meanwhile, we have hired our third successive head coach with a deeply ingrained shortsightedness. How many games we win this season is inconsequential. Our future is tied to the development of our precious few young talents, but unfortunately our roster is chock-full of veterans upon which an unimaginative disciplinarian can and will lean on.

I was pretty vocal in past about lot of your points.

Entering 7th year of rebuild, opening starting line up for Magic will probably look like this:
10 years vet at PG
6 years vet at SG
6 years vet at SF
5 years vet at PF ( notorius untapped potential guy )
7 years old vet at C

bench: 28 years old Simmons and ,25 years old Grant , and i guess two rookies from last 2 trips to lottery.

Guys like Briscoe, Fraizer and others will all find themselfs watching from outside looking in.

I guess you can milk money and do nothing and just call every year " evaluation year" as excuse for sitting on hands during FA and trade season.
" You wanted to get rid of Biyombo, no problem here is fan service trade to land player on same contract, who actually might be worst player, older for sure, with lengt of a contract same as guy you didn't like " .

Agreed. Like others have said, nobody expects Bamba and Isaac to play 35mpg, but there are definitely other organizations that have zero issue with giving out large amounts of minutes to rookies and young guys. I fail to see the drawback to throwing them into the fire. It’s not like the playoffs are really in the picture.

One of my biggest gripes with how we've been run

[zaymon]

I was pretty vocal in past about lot of your points.

Entering 7th year of rebuild, opening starting line up for Magic will probably look like this:
10 years vet at PG
6 years vet at SG
6 years vet at SF
5 years vet at PF ( notorius untapped potential guy )
7 years old vet at C

bench: 28 years old Simmons and ,25 years old Grant , and i guess two rookies from last 2 trips to lottery.

Guys like Briscoe, Fraizer and others will all find themselfs watching from outside looking in.

I guess you can milk money and do nothing and just call every year " evaluation year" as excuse for sitting on hands during FA and trade season.
" You wanted to get rid of Biyombo, no problem here is fan service trade to land player on same contract, who actually might be worst player, older for sure, with lengt of a contract same as guy you didn't like " .

Agreed. Like others have said, nobody expects Bamba and Isaac to play 35mpg, but there are definitely other organizations that have zero issue with giving out large amounts of minutes to rookies and young guys. I fail to see the drawback to throwing them into the fire. It’s not like the playoffs are really in the picture.

One of my biggest gripes with how we've been run

The drawbacks are bad habits, possible lack of motivation, crushing self confidence.
James Harden, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, Terry Rozier, Kyle Lowry, Jj Redick, Rudy Gobert, Clint Capela, Trevor Ariza, Rober Covington.
Only true stars with flawless work ethic and self motivation can start in this league from the start and succed

[pepe1991]

Agreed. Like others have said, nobody expects Bamba and Isaac to play 35mpg, but there are definitely other organizations that have zero issue with giving out large amounts of minutes to rookies and young guys. I fail to see the drawback to throwing them into the fire. It’s not like the playoffs are really in the picture.

One of my biggest gripes with how we've been run

The drawbacks are bad habits, possible lack of motivation, crushing self confidence.
James Harden, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, Terry Rozier, Kyle Lowry, Jj Redick, Rudy Gobert, Clint Capela, Trevor Ariza, Rober Covington.
Only true stars with flawless work ethic and self motivation can start in this league from the start and succed

Harden averaged 23 mpg in rookie year, on playoff team, and 20 mpg during playoffs.
Everybody else were not top lottery picks. Matter of fact some of them were second round picks and one was undrafted.

[VFX]

One of my biggest gripes with how we've been run

The drawbacks are bad habits, possible lack of motivation, crushing self confidence.
James Harden, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, Terry Rozier, Kyle Lowry, Jj Redick, Rudy Gobert, Clint Capela, Trevor Ariza, Rober Covington.
Only true stars with flawless work ethic and self motivation can start in this league from the start and succed

Harden averaged 23 mpg in rookie year, on playoff team, and 20 mpg during playoffs.
Everybody else were not top lottery picks. Matter of fact some of them were second round picks and one was undrafted.

One could argue that not getting any, or limited, playing time is far more “confidence crushing” to a first round pick than not.

It does nothing but give them irreplaceable on the job experience. I don’t buy the idea that these players are so soft mentally that they would become worse with playing time with some exceptions (Fultz). Most of these players have been playing their whole lives.

Even if that were the case, they don’t deserve to be a professional basketball player in the most talented league if they can’t handle that level of adversity.