Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[Darren]

No, Dirk has very quick first step and he was explosive athlete when he first comes to the league. I enjoy his dunks with his long hairs a lot. 2011 champ is impossible if Dirk can't create off dribbles. All of the last second Miami upset are due to Dirk's explosiveness with elite shooting in mix. Obviously, Doncic is not compared to Dirk shooting-wise and defending-wise in their rookie season. Dirk does block a lot of shots even if he's considered soft by the time.

[Mr B]

I believe the percentage of 19-year old athletes who become more athletic when they join NBA is around 100%. If I had to come up with a realistic estimation I'd say 98.5%. Most of the remaining 1.5% are those that were already physical freaks, one of a kind athletes at the draft.

The percentage of European 20-year old players who became more athletic after joining NBA is 100% - as long as they were not just warming bench for a season and then returned to Europe.

Give me one clearly noticeable example.

One? You can't be serious. Ok, Dirk Nowitzki.

What do you think athleticism is, exactly? Would you say that Brock Lesnar is athletic, for example? Physically, what is it that decides level of athleticism in your opinion? It has to be based on something inside the body. There's not much inside of our bodies that we would not be able to improve. So I'm really interested to hear what is it inside of our bodies that (solely) decides level of athleticism and has a property of not being "improvable".

Would Steve Nash be considered athletic? He definitely got better the longer he was in the NBA and he’s a guy that never dunked once while in the NBA. Gordon Hayward? I’d say he got better the longer he was in the NBA. Dirk is a good example. Was Bird better in year 3-4 than he was his rookie year? I’d say yes.

[Mr B]

No, Dirk has very quick first step and he was explosive athlete when he first comes to the league. I enjoy his dunks with his long hairs a lot. 2011 champ is impossible if Dirk can't create off dribbles. All of the last second Miami upset are due to Dirk's explosiveness with elite shooting in mix. Obviously, Doncic is not compared to Dirk shooting-wise and defending-wise in their rookie season. Dirk does block a lot of shots even if he's considered soft by the time.

Not his first year he wasn’t. His rookie year Dirk was not good at all at taking guys off the dribble. He was basically a spot up 3 pt shooter his rookie year. I don’t know how long you have been a Mavs fan but I’ve watch pretty much every game since 1992. I’ve seen every single one of Dirk’s games. He showed promise his rookie year but he was not very good. He was light years better his 3rd and 4th year than he was his rookie year.

The point is you have give Luka a chance to grow. He’s not going to come in and be a 1st team all NBA player his rookie year, it’s going to take him time. By the time Luka is 3-4 years in the NBA he will be worlds better than anything we will see this year.

[Darren]

Watch on YouTube

No, just no.
- Dirk can create space to shoot; can take defenders off dribbles with ease.
- Doncic can only create space to shoot with a step back; he turnovers in paint quite often.
- They play different positions. Dirk's agility advantages at PF. Doncic's below average at SF/SG. Dirk's size advantages to create a favorable mismatch to shoot over people. Doncic has not.
- Let's not forget Dirk's an elite shooter early in his career. Doncic is shooting unimpressive 32% from 3P%. I doubt his playmaking translate well in nba early. He struggles against better defenders (in paints) in international games and European League as well. He'll face a lot of them in nba.

Conclusion - the concerns are legitimate when it comes to his potential to be a first option. He's to at least become an elite shooter and drastically-improving athlete for that role. However, I am sure his IQ and playmaking will push Smith to another level. When Dennis shoots like Barea, he's already better than Lillard. Smith has an elite tool - explosive first step + short time to jump to his highest point. With elite shooting, he's unguardable. That's what makes his elite for a go-to moves to win games. Doncic is a good supporting player. But that's it at this point. He's a shoot very well from long range and has a decent first step to catch up with Harden. Harden relies on his shooting, first steps, euro step and bulks a lot for his go-to moves.

[Mr B]

Watch on YouTube

No, just no.
- Dirk can create space to shoot; can take defenders off dribbles with ease.
- Doncic can only create space to shoot with a step back; he turnovers in paint quite often.
- They play different positions. Dirk's agility advantages at PF. Doncic's below average at SF/SG. Dirk's size advantages to create a favorable mismatch to shoot over people. Doncic has not.
- Let's not forget Dirk's an elite shooter early in his career. Doncic is shooting unimpressive 32% from 3P%. I doubt his playmaking translate well in nba early. He struggles against better defenders (in paints) in international games and European League as well. He'll face a lot of them in nba.

Conclusion - the concerns are legitimate when it comes to his potential to be a first option. He's to at least become an elite shooter and drastically-improving athlete for that role. However, I am sure his IQ and playmaking will push Smith to another level. When Dennis shoots like Barea, he's already better than Lillard. Smith has an elite tool - explosive first step + short time to jump to his highest point. With elite shooting, he's unguardable. That's what makes his elite for a go-to moves to win games. Doncic is a good supporting player. But that's it at this point. He's a shoot very well from long range and has a decent first step to catch up with Harden. Harden relies on his shooting, first steps, euro step and bulks a lot for his go-to moves.

Are those ALL from Dirk’s rookie year? No, they’re not.

[Jstock12]

No, Dirk has very quick first step and he was explosive athlete when he first comes to the league.

Never thought I'd read words 'Dirk' and 'explosive athlete' in the same sentence. Thank you for this...

[J_T]

Watch on YouTube

No, just no.
- Dirk can create space to shoot; can take defenders off dribbles with ease.
- Doncic can only create space to shoot with a step back; he turnovers in paint quite often.
- They play different positions. Dirk's agility advantages at PF. Doncic's below average at SF/SG. Dirk's size advantages to create a favorable mismatch to shoot over people. Doncic has not.
- Let's not forget Dirk's an elite shooter early in his career. Doncic is shooting unimpressive 32% from 3P%. I doubt his playmaking translate well in nba early. He struggles against better defenders (in paints) in international games and European League as well. He'll face a lot of them in nba.

Conclusion - the concerns are legitimate when it comes to his potential to be a first option. He's to at least become an elite shooter and drastically-improving athlete for that role. However, I am sure his IQ and playmaking will push Smith to another level. When Dennis shoots like Barea, he's already better than Lillard. Smith has an elite tool - explosive first step + short time to jump to his highest point. With elite shooting, he's unguardable. That's what makes his elite for a go-to moves to win games. Doncic is a good supporting player. But that's it at this point. He's a shoot very well from long range and has a decent first step to catch up with Harden. Harden relies on his shooting, first steps, euro step and bulks a lot for his go-to moves.

Are those ALL from Dirk’s rookie year? No, they’re not.

I don't see any point even discussing that long post, he is obviously wrong. I don't think there is a single Dirk's "athletic" clip from rookie's season. They are all from 2003-2006 let's say. It's easy to see, just follow the haircut. Dirk looks very slow in his rookie season.

[UcanUwill]

No, Dirk has very quick first step and he was explosive athlete when he first comes to the league.

Never thought I'd read words 'Dirk' and 'explosive athlete' in the same sentence. Thank you for this...

Young Dirk was fast as ***. Yeah, he wasnt Amare Stoudemire, but he was able to pull of above the rim plays with ease. but he is white and a shooter, so people forget that he was actually an athlete, for a guy who is 7 feet tall, its hard to find a better athlete than that.

[arkuo]

Doncic will be ok with NBA training. His IQ is what you're buying here. Harden isnt lightning fast but does ok. On the flip side you got athletic specimens like JR Smith who have little to no... You get my point.

[Archx]

I think it was in Spanish interview few days ago when Luka said that Mavs still have around 5 years to grow until they can compete for a ring. He knows best he is not ready to do what he was able to do in Europe in order to win a ring. He has a ton of training infront of him. So i am pretty sure, while you guys argue here what he can and can not do, he knows best where he is personally at this point or how strong are the Mavs.

[Jstock12]

No, Dirk has very quick first step and he was explosive athlete when he first comes to the league.

Never thought I'd read words 'Dirk' and 'explosive athlete' in the same sentence. Thank you for this...

Young Dirk was fast as ***. Yeah, he wasnt Amare Stoudemire, but he was able to pull of above the rim plays with ease. but he is white and a shooter, so people forget that he was actually an athlete, for a guy who is 7 feet tall, its hard to find a better athlete than that.

Dirk was an okay athlete when he was 20. Let's not start saying he was an explosive athlete. The hyperboles by some of you are insane.

[Mr B]

No, Dirk has very quick first step and he was explosive athlete when he first comes to the league.

Never thought I'd read words 'Dirk' and 'explosive athlete' in the same sentence. Thank you for this...

Young Dirk was fast as ***. Yeah, he wasnt Amare Stoudemire, but he was able to pull of above the rim plays with ease. but he is white and a shooter, so people forget that he was actually an athlete, for a guy who is 7 feet tall, its hard to find a better athlete than that.

The point is that Dirk wasn’t doing that in his rookie year. By year 2-3 he was after he had a couple years of NBA strength and agility training. Luka needs to be given the same amount of time before people start labeling him a stiff that has no explosion, can’t defend, and can’t take anyone off the dribble. Luka will absolutely be able to do those things by the time he’s 2-3 years in the NBA.

[Mr B]

Doncic will be ok with NBA training. His IQ is what you're buying here. Harden isnt lightning fast but does ok. On the flip side you got athletic specimens like JR Smith who have little to no... You get my point.

Gerald Green is another example. He’s probably as athletic and as explosive as prime Vince Carter yet has been a 7th/8th guy at best his whole career.

[Mr B]

I think it was in Spanish interview few days ago when Luka said that Mavs still have around 5 years to grow until they can compete for a ring. He knows best he is not ready to do what he was able to do in Europe in order to win a ring. He has a ton of training infront of him. So i am pretty sure, while you guys argue here what he can and can not do, he knows best where he is personally at this point or how strong are the Mavs.

Yea it will be at least 5 years before this team is a legit threat to win a title. There may only be 2 or 3 guys currently on the roster that will be here by then and Luka and Dennis will look far more advanced than what they look like today.

[arkuo]

I think it was in Spanish interview few days ago when Luka said that Mavs still have around 5 years to grow until they can compete for a ring. He knows best he is not ready to do what he was able to do in Europe in order to win a ring. He has a ton of training infront of him. So i am pretty sure, while you guys argue here what he can and can not do, he knows best where he is personally at this point or how strong are the Mavs.

Yea it will be at least 5 years before this team is a legit threat to win a title. There may only be 2 or 3 guys currently on the roster that will be here by then and Luka and Dennis will look far more advanced than what they look like today.

True. 5 years to be seriously competitive. 1 to 3 to play fun basketball with no pressure. 2021 is the plan I think. Then we'll go from there. If we need to win it from the middle of the pack, like 2011, then so be it. We were never clear favorites in 2011 but we busted them down one wall after the other.

[Teffer10]

Doncic will be ok with NBA training. His IQ is what you're buying here. Harden isnt lightning fast but does ok. On the flip side you got athletic specimens like JR Smith who have little to no... You get my point.

Gerald Green is another example. He’s probably as athletic and as explosive as prime Vince Carter yet has been a 7th/8th guy at best his whole career.

Yeah, people have tunnel vision when it comes to athleticism and basketball and Gerald Green was the first to come to mind as I was reading this thread. Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Magic and Bird weren't exactly known for their athleticism or explosiveness but their IQ and unique skillsets made them successful.
Doesn't mean Luka will be have the same successes because guys like Jacque Vaugn and some others had the same skillsets and BBIQ but didn't do well in the NBA.
But I do think Donnie and Rick believe Luka has decent chance to have similar successes as some of those great players mentioned above.

[J_T]

Couple of interesting answers in the latest interview. The translation from Spanish is pretty much at Google translate level.

Once you land in Dallas, what will the new coach Rick Carslisle and the franchise ask of you?

We all want the very best for the team, but what they say to me stays between us, I can't say. Yes, I can say that I speak a lot with my trainer.

And personally, what goals do you set for the first season?

The first is to think about the team, I would like us to play in the playoffs. Individually, I would like to play well and achieve the things that the trainers ask of me. But I insist, I will be there for what the team asks of me. That is the most important.

Trying to forget the collective. Where do you see yourself?

I feel more free with the ball in my hands and creating scoring situations for my teammates. I like to play in the pick and roll. In the NBA, it is easier to do that with the space there. I am comfortable with that.

What does it mean for another European to share the dressing room with Dirk Nowitzki in his 21st season?

It's fantastic to have a player like Dirk as a teammate. I spoke with him, but he still hasn't made any jokes...we will see in September (laughs). It's incredible to have him as a mentor!

Are you conscious now that every movement or comment is turned into news?

I don't read newspapers or look at social media. I just upload my photos and I see the ones the people I follow put up. I try to forget about it and continue with my life.

Almost all players say this but later, in the news, it is revealed that Kevin Durant has burner accounts to defend himself against the critics.

I have never done that. There are people who say nice things and others who say bad things. I try to pass over on those things.

Starting to understand trashtalking in the United States. Before the draft, Charles Barkley commented that the player he faced weren't very good...

He said that because he doesn't know European basketball. He can say what he wants to say. As I said, I don't pay attention to those things.

Just to provide context for the last question, for those that don't know. Barkley said before the draft, that he wouldn't have picked Doncic with a top 5 pick. He provided a rather curious reasoning for that. He said that Doncic winning all those MVP titles against grown men as a teenager shows that the quality of the competition was bad. So basically because Doncic is bad and was MVP, this means that the competition is bad. And because the competition is bad, that means Doncic is bad. It really is a head-scratcher, I tried to understand that, but no luck. It seems to me that Barkley is simply saying that under no circumstances a team should be picking an international player with a top 5 pick.

[burek3]

Barkley sells television, generates controversy, it's his thing. I wouldn't take him too seriously.

[J_T]

Barkley sells television, generates controversy, it's his thing. I wouldn't take him too seriously.

I love the guy. I take him seriously enough on certain subjects, he is not afraid to say what he thinks. And often I think that what he said was really smart and not many people would have said it. But he has his blind spots, and basketball outside of USA is one of them.

[burek3]

Barkley sells television, generates controversy, it's his thing. I wouldn't take him too seriously.

I love the guy. I take him seriously enough on certain subjects, he is not afraid to say what he thinks. And often I think that what he said was really smart and not many people would have said it. But he has his blind spots, and basketball outside of USA is one of them.

Maybe you are right, but maybe he does it on purpose. In any case, Luka has to ball out.