The Celtics have a decision to make on Kyrie soon

[Darth Celtic]

Kyrie’s not worth the max and he’s not a good fit on a team that already has multiple scoring options and is built on a switch everything defense. Celtics would really be smart to get something for him while they can.

Boston had the #1 defense with Kyrie playing 60 games last year. People keep talking like once Kyrie went down the offense opened up and the ball was moving around a lot more which allowed Tatum's game to open up. Now that Kyrie is coming back we will see ISO Kyrie and not the ball movement offense that we saw in the playoffs.

Kyrie (RS)
Time of Pos: 6.1 seconds
Sec per Touch: 4.8 seconds
Dribs per touch: 4.4

Rozier (playoffs)
Time of Pos: 6.9 seconds
Sec per Touch: 4.8 seconds
Dribs per Touch: 4.3

Now Kyrie did do more ISO scoring than Rozier (16% vs 12%), but overall ISO frequency for the team went up from 8% in the regular season to 11% in the playoffs. The big difference in the playoffs was how much more aggressive Tatum was with his touches compared to what he was in the regular season.

Rozier led Boston in FGA in the playoffs, he did that while shooting 40/34/82 percentages. Between Rozier/Smart/Morris, those 3 averaged 35 shots a game on 37/33/75 shooting. So there is a lot more offense and shots to be had for Boston next season.

The problem for Boston is that in the playoffs, teams like Toronto and Golden State will be attacking Kyrie every single play. So his weaknesses get magnified and you’re counting on him to make up for it with late game scoring even though he’s going to already be dog tired from all the extra effort on D, and he pretty much never makes it through a season healthy anyway.

Meanwhile if you could replace him with someone who’s a little less skilled but a better defender, you’ll still have plenty of scoring with Hayward and Tatum, but you won’t have that weak link in the defense to attack any more. There’s guys that make way less than Kyrie’s current salary who would have more value in Boston’s particular situation so it doesn’t make sense to give him $170MM unless you’re just looking to lock him up and then trade him somewhere else. It has nothing to do with the offense flowing better without him holding the ball, and everything to do with his strengths being redundant while his weaknesses are a glaring problem for Boston.

you didn't watch the playoffs did you.

They attacked Rozier every single play. I watched all season, Kyrie being switched on a big man is better than rozier being switched.

[Darth Celtic]

Trading him (if you can get anything for him) is the right move. Its near certain that Terry Rozier will have a better career than Kyrie and he's younger, less injury prone, and his style of play is more suited towards playoff basketball.

Plus he's extremely versatile being able to play either guard spot on offense or defense. The Celtics have too many good, young pieces to tie their wagon to Kyrie in the latter stage of his career.

Basically everything you said there was wrong. how is that even possible.

1. Terry can't play SG. He's a PG. We played him with Kyrie some last year and Kyrie was the SG, but it was rare.
2. Terry will not have a better career than Kyrie. IN fact, if Kyrie retired to travel along the world (not around, lol), his career is already better than what Rozier will do.
3. Rozier is exactly 2 years younger than Kyrie. 2.
4. Rozier's style is not more suited for playoff basketball. Have you even watched Kyrie and Rozier play in the playoffs the last 3 years? Like at all? Kyrie has great regular season games, but is on another level in the more 1 on 1 playoff style.
5. ----you got me on injuries
6. Rozier can't play either spot, especially on defense. Kyrie is better at defending larger players on switches that Rozier.
7. Later stage of career? The dude is 26...... He won't be starting the latter stage of his career for 5-6 freaking years.

[iggymcfrack]

Boston had the #1 defense with Kyrie playing 60 games last year. People keep talking like once Kyrie went down the offense opened up and the ball was moving around a lot more which allowed Tatum's game to open up. Now that Kyrie is coming back we will see ISO Kyrie and not the ball movement offense that we saw in the playoffs.

Kyrie (RS)
Time of Pos: 6.1 seconds
Sec per Touch: 4.8 seconds
Dribs per touch: 4.4

Rozier (playoffs)
Time of Pos: 6.9 seconds
Sec per Touch: 4.8 seconds
Dribs per Touch: 4.3

Now Kyrie did do more ISO scoring than Rozier (16% vs 12%), but overall ISO frequency for the team went up from 8% in the regular season to 11% in the playoffs. The big difference in the playoffs was how much more aggressive Tatum was with his touches compared to what he was in the regular season.

Rozier led Boston in FGA in the playoffs, he did that while shooting 40/34/82 percentages. Between Rozier/Smart/Morris, those 3 averaged 35 shots a game on 37/33/75 shooting. So there is a lot more offense and shots to be had for Boston next season.

The problem for Boston is that in the playoffs, teams like Toronto and Golden State will be attacking Kyrie every single play. So his weaknesses get magnified and you’re counting on him to make up for it with late game scoring even though he’s going to already be dog tired from all the extra effort on D, and he pretty much never makes it through a season healthy anyway.

Meanwhile if you could replace him with someone who’s a little less skilled but a better defender, you’ll still have plenty of scoring with Hayward and Tatum, but you won’t have that weak link in the defense to attack any more. There’s guys that make way less than Kyrie’s current salary who would have more value in Boston’s particular situation so it doesn’t make sense to give him $170MM unless you’re just looking to lock him up and then trade him somewhere else. It has nothing to do with the offense flowing better without him holding the ball, and everything to do with his strengths being redundant while his weaknesses are a glaring problem for Boston.

you didn't watch the playoffs did you.

They attacked Rozier every single play. I watched all season, Kyrie being switched on a big man is better than rozier being switched.

Yeah, I watched. I dont think Rozier is an ideal starting option either. Last year they needed him because they didn’t have the scoring punch with Hayward hurt and Tatum just coming into his own. I’d imagine that if they were in the same situation this year, they’d either start Marcus Smart or someone they’d pick up in a Kyrie trade.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The real decision is Horford, they don't have a replacement for him yet, at least they have someone that can fill in Kyrie's role if they need to. He's 32, has been pretty healthy the last few years after struggling with constant pec tears, after what Ainge did to Thomas I can't see him offering Horford more than 2-3 years, with maybe the 3rd being a team option.

[Rocketsbaby]

Trading him (if you can get anything for him) is the right move. Its near certain that Terry Rozier will have a better career than Kyrie and he's younger, less injury prone, and his style of play is more suited towards playoff basketball.

Plus he's extremely versatile being able to play either guard spot on offense or defense. The Celtics have too many good, young pieces to tie their wagon to Kyrie in the latter stage of his career.

Green font? Its near certain that Rozier will have a better career? Rozier is 24, while Kyrie is only 2 years older than him. Kyrie at 23 was hitting a finals series clinching shot in game 7 over Curry and dropping 27 points regularly in the finals.

His style of play is more suited towards playoff basketball? Kyrie's career playoff averages are 24/3/5 on 46/41/87 shooting %s. Rozier's career best in the playoffs was last year with 16/5/6 on 40/34/82 shooting. Kyrie shows up in game 7s while the last time we saw Rozier was dropping 4 points on 2/14 shooting in Game 7 when Boston only scored 79 points.

Kyrie is more versatile offensively since he is the better catch and shoot player and much more effective on the ball. Defensively Rozier is not a good defender, he was picked on all playoffs. And tie their wagon to Kyrie's latter stage of his career? Again he is only 2 years older than Rozier and just turned 26 years old.

I feel like I just got a fast one pulled on me...

Sorry, I meant to say that it's nearly certain that Rozier will have the better career than Kyrie GOING FORWARD... i didnt mean to imply he has thus far or will overall... Kyrie, frankly, appears to really be struggling to find his health and if I had a stacked team like the Celtics I'd rather rely on the younger, two way player.

[T-d0t]

I'm calling it now, Kyrie is going to be traded before the end of the trade deadline