OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

To coin one of their phrases, "Then GTFO!"

And they probably call Kaepernick unpatriotic

[HarthorneWingo]

Read on Twitter

To coin one of their phrases, "Then GTFO!"

And they probably call Kaepernick unpatriotic

Great point.

[Capn'O]

Here it is:

Great article about campaign financing.

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/31/democratic-party-political-fundraising-dccc/

On paper, I was an ideal candidate for the Democrats. Born and raised in the district, a successful career in education and nonprofit work, Ivy League graduate, young, Black, with gay parents and therefore, a compelling family story. But the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee didn’t take an interest in me until they started to have doubts about the other top candidates: two white men who had already raised hundreds of thousands of dollars and a white woman who would loan her campaign $170,000. I also started raising significant money, putting me on their radar. Besides a polite if not cautionary phone call with one of their Northeast operatives, the first official communication I received from them was this:

In other words: We don’t give a **** who you are, young man. Just show us the money. In two short weeks at the very outset of my campaign, they directed me to raise $200,000.

The three men then began to grill me on my stance on fracking.

I’m against it, I told them, especially the pipeline they were trying to run past schools and homes in my district. Rendell boasted about how he had personally brought fracking to Pennsylvania. Welters shared how frustrated he is by Democrats who are “doctrinaire” on the issue. He wished they’d open up to fracking. (Welters, I learned later, is involved in the fracking industry.)

So that's the bar that both parties and almost all politicians fall under. Assuming Mueller goes where many of us think he is, what Trump and co are doing is another bar entirely.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Systemic revamping requires a revolution at the ballot box, because it won't happen via armed struggle.

So that is why I have been lasered in on the Mueller investigation because he is still our best bet for getting the first wave of anti-corruption measures into place.

The guy is not playing this as a partisan so there will be Democrats and Republicans who will be indicted. They will be predominantly Republican though, because while I understand your general sentiment about systemic corruption the GOP is legitimately major increments of corrupt worse than the Democratic party.

So instead of focusing on the ills of capitalism, it is first necessary to dismantle the more corrupt party which has gone balls to the wall with their efforts to hack our democratic processes and rig elections. The Democrats have shown no such inclination so they are miles apart on that score and that is a difference you can sink your teeth into regardless of whatever disaffections you feel that include both parties.

Well...I'm not as educated/informed on all of the issues as I would like to be anymore. I stopped "caring" after years of tinfoil head comments and absolute denial that people would display. Like I was crazy. It's all coming out in the wash now.

You seem to feel that it is two parties with one being more corrupt. I disagree. I feel it is one big party at our expense...and we're not invited. The corruption spans the entire establishment. Right down to the lowest levels of gov't actually.

The ballot box...get out and vote idea is a great one. Who's propping up the candidates?

To your comment that the democrats aren't rigging elections...huh? Did you see the primaries?

The media is complicit in ALL of it as well. In the end...the rich get richer...the impoverished grow in ranks....and the media lies to everyone.

Who would you support as a political candidate? Persidential material. I really don't know myself. There was that woman from Hawaii whose name escapes me at the moment. She was making noise during the primaries and then...media blackout. I haven't heard her name in so long...I forgot it...hmmmm...go figure.

I'm not going to work overtime to persuade you or anyone else, just please take under consideration that a vote against the GOP at this time is crucial, not because you intrinsically support the Democrats, but because yes there is a difference. So you can call it lesser of the two evils and that's fine, but if Clinton had been status quo that would still have been light years better than Trump.

The upside of Trump winning is under Clinton there would have been no Mueller and no rooting out of tons of corruption, so there is now some silver lining or upside to our situation.

I'll vote for Elizabeth Warren in the primaries since I expect her to run. She seems clean and genuinely geared towards legislating to benefit the average citizen. She is smart, tough, a straight shooter and articulates excellently. I would expect her to debate very well on the campaign trail and then communicate well as a president and diplomat. If she won, Pelosi and Schumer would get the demotions they deserve.

I'm not trying to debate anything here. I'm not voting GOP and I'm not a Democrat either. The corruption is rampant in both parties. Period. Maybe what Mueller is doing now needs the GOP to lose power in order to get results. That's fine with me. I'm not arguing against anything. As you said...he's also dragging democrats into the frey. Which proves my point. There are plenty of skeletons to go around.

The scary thing to me is...and has been for a few years...they are attacking themselves now. The snake is trying hard not to eat its own head but...look what's happening. When all is said and done...how damaging is all of this to our country? Our economy? Our global standing? Who cleans up the mess?

The Trump election definitely interrupted the status quo as you point out. The Clinton power machine was pretty bad. They rigged the primaries. None of this would be getting investigated. So...that's the silver lining. Great. We have to hope that Mueller is as honest as possible. That he is only about exposing the truth as a whole. For non political reasons. If that's the case...awesome.

I appreciate your posts on all of this. I respect your opinions as well. You back them up with facts. I just disagree that the GOP is as separate of an entity as you do. That's all. Maybe with this Russian probe they are. I am not trying to dismiss that.

I liked Warren until she sided with Shillary. I don't trust her anymore. She flipped IMO. I could be overreacting though.

[Clyde_Style]

Well...I'm not as educated/informed on all of the issues as I would like to be anymore. I stopped "caring" after years of tinfoil head comments and absolute denial that people would display. Like I was crazy. It's all coming out in the wash now.

You seem to feel that it is two parties with one being more corrupt. I disagree. I feel it is one big party at our expense...and we're not invited. The corruption spans the entire establishment. Right down to the lowest levels of gov't actually.

The ballot box...get out and vote idea is a great one. Who's propping up the candidates?

To your comment that the democrats aren't rigging elections...huh? Did you see the primaries?

The media is complicit in ALL of it as well. In the end...the rich get richer...the impoverished grow in ranks....and the media lies to everyone.

Who would you support as a political candidate? Persidential material. I really don't know myself. There was that woman from Hawaii whose name escapes me at the moment. She was making noise during the primaries and then...media blackout. I haven't heard her name in so long...I forgot it...hmmmm...go figure.

I'm not going to work overtime to persuade you or anyone else, just please take under consideration that a vote against the GOP at this time is crucial, not because you intrinsically support the Democrats, but because yes there is a difference. So you can call it lesser of the two evils and that's fine, but if Clinton had been status quo that would still have been light years better than Trump.

The upside of Trump winning is under Clinton there would have been no Mueller and no rooting out of tons of corruption, so there is now some silver lining or upside to our situation.

I'll vote for Elizabeth Warren in the primaries since I expect her to run. She seems clean and genuinely geared towards legislating to benefit the average citizen. She is smart, tough, a straight shooter and articulates excellently. I would expect her to debate very well on the campaign trail and then communicate well as a president and diplomat. If she won, Pelosi and Schumer would get the demotions they deserve.

I'm not trying to debate anything here. I'm not voting GOP and I'm not a Democrat either. The corruption is rampant in both parties. Period. Maybe what Mueller is doing now needs the GOP to lose power in order to get results. That's fine with me. I'm not arguing against anything. As you said...he's also dragging democrats into the frey. Which proves my point. There are plenty of skeletons to go around.

The scary thing to me is...and has been for a few years...they are attacking themselves now. The snake is trying hard not to eat its own head but...look what's happening. When all is said and done...how damaging is all of this to our country? Our economy? Our global standing? Who cleans up the mess?

The Trump election definitely interrupted the status quo as you point out. The Clinton power machine was pretty bad. They rigged the primaries. None of this would be getting investigated. So...that's the silver lining. Great. We have to hope that Mueller is as honest as possible. That he is only about exposing the truth as a whole. For non political reasons. If that's the case...awesome.

I appreciate your posts on all of this. I respect your opinions as well. You back them up with facts. I just disagree that the GOP is as separate of an entity as you do. That's all. Maybe with this Russian probe they are. I am not trying to dismiss that.

I liked Warren until she sided with Shillary. I don't trust her anymore. She flipped IMO. I could be overreacting though.

Warren is working within the constraints of the Democratic party. I don't know what you mean by sided with other than she was going to back the party's nominee and not Trump so I can't see how that factors into any evaluation of her.

Yes, keep tabs on her. You may be reasonably satisfied that a vote for her is well spent whatever the system as a whole represents to you. If you do think you can vote for her, support her in the primaries and then the general election. Every vote does count.

[Clyde_Style]

Here it is:

Great article about campaign financing.

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/31/democratic-party-political-fundraising-dccc/

On paper, I was an ideal candidate for the Democrats. Born and raised in the district, a successful career in education and nonprofit work, Ivy League graduate, young, Black, with gay parents and therefore, a compelling family story. But the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee didn’t take an interest in me until they started to have doubts about the other top candidates: two white men who had already raised hundreds of thousands of dollars and a white woman who would loan her campaign $170,000. I also started raising significant money, putting me on their radar. Besides a polite if not cautionary phone call with one of their Northeast operatives, the first official communication I received from them was this:

In other words: We don’t give a **** who you are, young man. Just show us the money. In two short weeks at the very outset of my campaign, they directed me to raise $200,000.

The three men then began to grill me on my stance on fracking.

I’m against it, I told them, especially the pipeline they were trying to run past schools and homes in my district. Rendell boasted about how he had personally brought fracking to Pennsylvania. Welters shared how frustrated he is by Democrats who are “doctrinaire” on the issue. He wished they’d open up to fracking. (Welters, I learned later, is involved in the fracking industry.)

So that's the bar that both parties and almost all politicians fall under. Assuming Mueller goes where many of us think he is, what Trump and co are doing is another bar entirely.

I think all but the irretrievably jaded will be shocked at the financial machinations behind this administration.

One of the items to keep tabs on is Russia's sale of stakes in Rosneft, the state oil company. There is speculation that the 19% stake sold may have been divvied up in part to GOP members and Trump and his associates by funneling the sale through the middle east and then putting the proceeds into off-shore accounts effectively washing the money.

If this happened, Mueller probably has the money trail even if countries like Qatar and the UAE do not share their banking records. When you wash these kinds of funds it becomes harder to hide the more times the money gets handed off during the laundering process.

GEORGE NADER may be the key to unraveling this level of corruption and we're talking about BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, not millions.

Mueller’s Focus on Adviser to Emirates Suggests Broader Investigation

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/us/politics/george-nader-mueller-investigation-united-arab-emirates.html

So even if the speculation over Rosneft never becomes the truth, there are still tons of dirt that Nader has given Mueller re: Trump/GOP financial backdoor deals with Middle Eastern countries.

Nader was the first witness to get full immunity. Other plea deals still include jail time. That means Mike Flynn will still serve time in prison with a reduced sentence for cooperation. Nader will be neither indicted nor face jail time. That's how valuable he was to Mueller. So expect fireworks to eventually emerge when Nader's testimony is revealed.

Additionally, the EMOLUMENTS TRIAL is proceeding and cannot be stopped now.

Heartbreak for the Trump Hotel
A judge rules the emoluments case against the president can proceed—and suggests why his D.C. business violates the Constitution

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/emoluments-case-against-trump-over-d-c-international-hotel-can-proceed-judge-peter-messitte-rules.html

So, in Trump's instance, he will likely be convicted of multiple crimes on a state level before any power play on a federal level to try him for treason.

[Capn'O]

Here it is:

Great article about campaign financing.

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/31/democratic-party-political-fundraising-dccc/

On paper, I was an ideal candidate for the Democrats. Born and raised in the district, a successful career in education and nonprofit work, Ivy League graduate, young, Black, with gay parents and therefore, a compelling family story. But the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee didn’t take an interest in me until they started to have doubts about the other top candidates: two white men who had already raised hundreds of thousands of dollars and a white woman who would loan her campaign $170,000. I also started raising significant money, putting me on their radar. Besides a polite if not cautionary phone call with one of their Northeast operatives, the first official communication I received from them was this:

In other words: We don’t give a **** who you are, young man. Just show us the money. In two short weeks at the very outset of my campaign, they directed me to raise $200,000.

The three men then began to grill me on my stance on fracking.

I’m against it, I told them, especially the pipeline they were trying to run past schools and homes in my district. Rendell boasted about how he had personally brought fracking to Pennsylvania. Welters shared how frustrated he is by Democrats who are “doctrinaire” on the issue. He wished they’d open up to fracking. (Welters, I learned later, is involved in the fracking industry.)

So that's the bar that both parties and almost all politicians fall under. Assuming Mueller goes where many of us think he is, what Trump and co are doing is another bar entirely.

I think all but the irretrievably jaded will be shocked at the financial machinations behind this administration.

One of the items to keep tabs on is Russia's sale of stakes in Rosneft, the state oil company. There is speculation that the 19% stake sold may have been divvied up in part to GOP members and Trump and his associates by funneling the sale through the middle east and then putting the proceeds into off-shore accounts effectively washing the money.

If this happened, Mueller probably has the money trail even if countries like Qatar and the UAE do not share their banking records. When you wash these kinds of funds it becomes harder to hide the more times the money gets handed off during the laundering process.

GEORGE NADER may be the key to unraveling this level of corruption and we're talking about BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, not millions.

Mueller’s Focus on Adviser to Emirates Suggests Broader Investigation

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/us/politics/george-nader-mueller-investigation-united-arab-emirates.html

So even if the speculation over Rosneft never becomes the truth, there are still tons of dirt that Nader has given Mueller re: Trump/GOP financial backdoor deals with Middle Eastern countries.

Nader was the first witness to get full immunity. Other plea deals still include jail time. That means Mike Flynn will still serve time in prison with a reduced sentence for cooperation. Nader will be neither indicted nor face jail time. That's how valuable he was to Mueller. So expect fireworks to eventually emerge when Nader's testimony is revealed.

Additionally, the EMOLUMENTS TRIAL is proceeding and cannot be stopped now.

Heartbreak for the Trump Hotel
A judge rules the emoluments case against the president can proceed—and suggests why his D.C. business violates the Constitution

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/emoluments-case-against-trump-over-d-c-international-hotel-can-proceed-judge-peter-messitte-rules.html

So, in Trump's instance, he will likely be convicted of multiple crimes on a state level before any power play on a federal level to try him for treason.

You know where I stand. I also think it's important to keep an eye on the other campaign finance/dirty money issues while specifically dealing with the Trump problem. It's a difficult line to walk to continue to push for general finance reforms in the political system while not creating a false equivalency.

[Clyde_Style]

Here it is:

Great article about campaign financing.

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/31/democratic-party-political-fundraising-dccc/













So that's the bar that both parties and almost all politicians fall under. Assuming Mueller goes where many of us think he is, what Trump and co are doing is another bar entirely.

I think all but the irretrievably jaded will be shocked at the financial machinations behind this administration.

One of the items to keep tabs on is Russia's sale of stakes in Rosneft, the state oil company. There is speculation that the 19% stake sold may have been divvied up in part to GOP members and Trump and his associates by funneling the sale through the middle east and then putting the proceeds into off-shore accounts effectively washing the money.

If this happened, Mueller probably has the money trail even if countries like Qatar and the UAE do not share their banking records. When you wash these kinds of funds it becomes harder to hide the more times the money gets handed off during the laundering process.

GEORGE NADER may be the key to unraveling this level of corruption and we're talking about BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, not millions.

Mueller’s Focus on Adviser to Emirates Suggests Broader Investigation

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/us/politics/george-nader-mueller-investigation-united-arab-emirates.html

So even if the speculation over Rosneft never becomes the truth, there are still tons of dirt that Nader has given Mueller re: Trump/GOP financial backdoor deals with Middle Eastern countries.

Nader was the first witness to get full immunity. Other plea deals still include jail time. That means Mike Flynn will still serve time in prison with a reduced sentence for cooperation. Nader will be neither indicted nor face jail time. That's how valuable he was to Mueller. So expect fireworks to eventually emerge when Nader's testimony is revealed.

Additionally, the EMOLUMENTS TRIAL is proceeding and cannot be stopped now.

Heartbreak for the Trump Hotel
A judge rules the emoluments case against the president can proceed—and suggests why his D.C. business violates the Constitution

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/emoluments-case-against-trump-over-d-c-international-hotel-can-proceed-judge-peter-messitte-rules.html

So, in Trump's instance, he will likely be convicted of multiple crimes on a state level before any power play on a federal level to try him for treason.

You know where I stand. I also think it's important to keep an eye on the other campaign finance/dirty money issues while specifically dealing with the Trump problem. It's a difficult line to walk to continue to push for general finance reforms in the political system while not creating a false equivalency.

This is why Mueller charging all crimes regardless of party affiliation will matter. It sets the bar higher and then sets the plate for a democratic president and congress to do the right thing and institute finance reform. Whether that will ever happen we don't know, but it won't happen without Mueller first taking his pound of flesh from the criminal activities he has encountered first.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Trump is about to be

[Clyde_Style]

Trump is about to be

He's done. It is now a matter of dotting the I's and crossing the T's, but as long as this guy doesn't kick the bucket on Pennsylvania Avenue he'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit for a long time hereafter.

One thing I'd like to convey is I'm not just gunning for him and speaking wishfully. I understand why he's done. I'm not impartial, but I'm not interested in vengeance fairytales. If I really felt he might last out his term I'd be very honest about it and say so, but I do not see it happening.

Over a year ago, I had many sympathetic posters telling me we would not get to the juncture we're at now. They didn't even believe anyone would stand trial, much less get charged.

But here we are and members of the campaign AND the cabinet are facing hard time.

One person has already served time. Others are already guaranteed to do time under their plea deals. And Manafort's trial is going so badly for him after one week, the first trial conviction is about to be handed down. AND he has a second collusion trial next month.

If it is going this bad for everyone surrounding Trump, it will be much worse for him. He will be convicted of treason IMO.

This is treason + fraud, so let's be really precise about this and say it is unprecedented.

No amount of prior fraud comes close to the direct sale of our presidency to Putin. Not even close. Russia at the present time is holding the steering wheel and driving our country. That's more than run of the mill corruption.

Trump is definitely toast.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Trump is about to be

He's done. It is now a matter of dotting the I's and crossing the T's, but as long as this guy doesn't kick the bucket on Pennsylvania Avenue he'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit for a long time hereafter.

One thing I'd like to convey is I'm not just gunning for him and speaking wishfully. I understand why he's done. I'm not impartial, but I'm not interested in vengeance fairytales. If I really felt he might last out his term I'd be very honest about it and say so, but I do not see it happening.

Over a year ago, I had many sympathetic posters telling me we would not get to the juncture we're at now. They didn't even believe anyone would stand trial, much less get charged.

But here we are and members of the campaign AND the cabinet are facing hard time.

One person has already served time. Others are already guaranteed to do time under their plea deals. And Manafort's trial is going so badly for him after one week, the first trial conviction is about to be handed down. AND he has a second collusion trial next month.

If it is going this bad for everyone surrounding Trump, it will be much worse for him. He will be convicted of treason IMO.

This is treason + fraud, so let's be really precise about this and say it is unprecedented.

No amount of prior fraud comes close to the direct sale of our presidency to Putin. Not even close. Russia at the present time is holding the steering wheel and driving our country. That's more than run of the mill corruption.

Trump is definitely toast.

I know in a previous discussion you told me Pence is also on the hot seat. Who cleans n up this mess if these guys both get burned?

[DOT]

Trump is about to be

He's done. It is now a matter of dotting the I's and crossing the T's, but as long as this guy doesn't kick the bucket on Pennsylvania Avenue he'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit for a long time hereafter.

One thing I'd like to convey is I'm not just gunning for him and speaking wishfully. I understand why he's done. I'm not impartial, but I'm not interested in vengeance fairytales. If I really felt he might last out his term I'd be very honest about it and say so, but I do not see it happening.

Over a year ago, I had many sympathetic posters telling me we would not get to the juncture we're at now. They didn't even believe anyone would stand trial, much less get charged.

But here we are and members of the campaign AND the cabinet are facing hard time.

One person has already served time. Others are already guaranteed to do time under their plea deals. And Manafort's trial is going so badly for him after one week, the first trial conviction is about to be handed down. AND he has a second collusion trial next month.

If it is going this bad for everyone surrounding Trump, it will be much worse for him. He will be convicted of treason IMO.

This is treason + fraud, so let's be really precise about this and say it is unprecedented.

No amount of prior fraud comes close to the direct sale of our presidency to Putin. Not even close. Russia at the present time is holding the steering wheel and driving our country. That's more than run of the mill corruption.

Trump is definitely toast.

I know in a previous discussion you told me Pence is also on the hot seat. Who cleans n up this mess if these guys both get burned?

Then it would be the Speaker of the House, which is currently Paul Ryan

However, if the Dems flip the House like they're expected to in November, it'd most likely be Nancy Pelosi. That'd be something, having the first woman president not be elected

[Jalen Bluntson]

He's done. It is now a matter of dotting the I's and crossing the T's, but as long as this guy doesn't kick the bucket on Pennsylvania Avenue he'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit for a long time hereafter.

One thing I'd like to convey is I'm not just gunning for him and speaking wishfully. I understand why he's done. I'm not impartial, but I'm not interested in vengeance fairytales. If I really felt he might last out his term I'd be very honest about it and say so, but I do not see it happening.

Over a year ago, I had many sympathetic posters telling me we would not get to the juncture we're at now. They didn't even believe anyone would stand trial, much less get charged.

But here we are and members of the campaign AND the cabinet are facing hard time.

One person has already served time. Others are already guaranteed to do time under their plea deals. And Manafort's trial is going so badly for him after one week, the first trial conviction is about to be handed down. AND he has a second collusion trial next month.

If it is going this bad for everyone surrounding Trump, it will be much worse for him. He will be convicted of treason IMO.

This is treason + fraud, so let's be really precise about this and say it is unprecedented.

No amount of prior fraud comes close to the direct sale of our presidency to Putin. Not even close. Russia at the present time is holding the steering wheel and driving our country. That's more than run of the mill corruption.

Trump is definitely toast.

I know in a previous discussion you told me Pence is also on the hot seat. Who cleans n up this mess if these guys both get burned?

Then it would be the Speaker of the House, which is currently Paul Ryan

However, if the Dems flip the House like they're expected to in November, it'd most likely be Nancy Pelosi. That'd be something, having the first woman president not be elected

Ryan was stepping down or something wasn't he? Pelosi? Ugh. Two more idiots.

[DOT]

I know in a previous discussion you told me Pence is also on the hot seat. Who cleans n up this mess if these guys both get burned?

Then it would be the Speaker of the House, which is currently Paul Ryan

However, if the Dems flip the House like they're expected to in November, it'd most likely be Nancy Pelosi. That'd be something, having the first woman president not be elected

Ryan was stepping down or something wasn't he? Pelosi? Ugh. Two more idiots.

He's not running again, but if Trump/Pence get impeached before mid terms, he becomes president

And really, whoever gets the job is really a lame duck candidate at that point, just a placeholder until 2020

[Clyde_Style]

Trump is about to be

He's done. It is now a matter of dotting the I's and crossing the T's, but as long as this guy doesn't kick the bucket on Pennsylvania Avenue he'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit for a long time hereafter.

One thing I'd like to convey is I'm not just gunning for him and speaking wishfully. I understand why he's done. I'm not impartial, but I'm not interested in vengeance fairytales. If I really felt he might last out his term I'd be very honest about it and say so, but I do not see it happening.

Over a year ago, I had many sympathetic posters telling me we would not get to the juncture we're at now. They didn't even believe anyone would stand trial, much less get charged.

But here we are and members of the campaign AND the cabinet are facing hard time.

One person has already served time. Others are already guaranteed to do time under their plea deals. And Manafort's trial is going so badly for him after one week, the first trial conviction is about to be handed down. AND he has a second collusion trial next month.

If it is going this bad for everyone surrounding Trump, it will be much worse for him. He will be convicted of treason IMO.

This is treason + fraud, so let's be really precise about this and say it is unprecedented.

No amount of prior fraud comes close to the direct sale of our presidency to Putin. Not even close. Russia at the present time is holding the steering wheel and driving our country. That's more than run of the mill corruption.

Trump is definitely toast.

I know in a previous discussion you told me Pence is also on the hot seat. Who cleans n up this mess if these guys both get burned?

You're asking about a political game of chess I don't know the outcome of though it has been tossed around by many curious minds.

If the Democrats take back both houses Pelosi will become President simply due to a democrat controlled congress' ability to impeach both Trump and Pence simultaneously leaving her next in the line of succession.

The issue with impeachment is it requires 2/3rds of the Senate vote, so a close to even GOP/DEM Senate you'd need about 13-15 GOP Senators to vote for it or roughly 25% of the GOP Senators.

That's why Mueller may go ahead and indict Trump and put him on trial while he is president. The GOP is not going to be monolithic wall of support for Trump it was until recently as McConnell and Ryan are retiring. Plus, those two are part of the scandal and I predict they will be indicted as well.

So the GOP will be in true disarray and there can certainly be a faction of GOP Senators who attempt to reclaim the high ground and conservative mantle by voting to impeach regardless of the outcome, because hitching your post to a confirmed traitor may not be a good career strategy on an individual basis.

I've seen total recalcitrance to seeing into these scenarios in the past and you see people here posting things like there is a 5% chance Trump gets removed and I just ignore them at this point. I've been close to perfect so far not because I'm right about everything, but because I tend to see into the implications long before most people will even consider them.

Anyway, I don't see Pence becoming president. He colluded with Russia and if anything I'd expect him to turn tail on Trump and confess his sins to Mueller rather than go to jail. But the GOP already knows they will never be able to back Pence for the job. He's toast too.

[Jalen Bluntson]

He's done. It is now a matter of dotting the I's and crossing the T's, but as long as this guy doesn't kick the bucket on Pennsylvania Avenue he'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit for a long time hereafter.

One thing I'd like to convey is I'm not just gunning for him and speaking wishfully. I understand why he's done. I'm not impartial, but I'm not interested in vengeance fairytales. If I really felt he might last out his term I'd be very honest about it and say so, but I do not see it happening.

Over a year ago, I had many sympathetic posters telling me we would not get to the juncture we're at now. They didn't even believe anyone would stand trial, much less get charged.

But here we are and members of the campaign AND the cabinet are facing hard time.

One person has already served time. Others are already guaranteed to do time under their plea deals. And Manafort's trial is going so badly for him after one week, the first trial conviction is about to be handed down. AND he has a second collusion trial next month.

If it is going this bad for everyone surrounding Trump, it will be much worse for him. He will be convicted of treason IMO.

This is treason + fraud, so let's be really precise about this and say it is unprecedented.

No amount of prior fraud comes close to the direct sale of our presidency to Putin. Not even close. Russia at the present time is holding the steering wheel and driving our country. That's more than run of the mill corruption.

Trump is definitely toast.

I know in a previous discussion you told me Pence is also on the hot seat. Who cleans n up this mess if these guys both get burned?

You're asking about a political game of chess I don't know the outcome of though it has been tossed around by many curious minds.

If the Democrats take back both houses Pelosi will become President simply due to a democrat controlled congress' ability to impeach both Trump and Pence simultaneously leaving her next in the line of succession.

The issue with impeachment is it requires 2/3rds of the Senate vote, so a close to even GOP/DEM Senate you'd need about 13-15 GOP Senators to vote for it or roughly 25% of the GOP Senators.

That's why Mueller may go ahead and indict Trump and put him on trial while he is president. The GOP is not going to be monolithic wall of support for Trump it was until recently as McConnell and Ryan are retiring. Plus, those two are part of the scandal and I predict they will be indicted as well.

So the GOP will be in true disarray and there can certainly be a faction of GOP Senators who attempt to reclaim the high ground and conservative mantle by voting to impeach regardless of the outcome, because hitching your post to a confirmed traitor may not be a good career strategy on an individual basis.

I've seen total recalcitrance to seeing into these scenarios in the past and you see people here posting things like there is a 5% chance Trump gets removed and I just ignore them at this point. I've been close to perfect so far not because I'm right about everything, but because I tend to see into the implications long before most people will even consider them.

Anyway, I don't see Pence becoming president. He colluded with Russia and if anything I'd expect him to turn tail on Trump and confess his sins to Mueller rather than go to jail. But the GOP already knows they will never be able to back Pence for the job. He's toast too.

[thebuzzardman]

Hey look, a peak at where the US of A can go:

https://theintercept.com/2018/08/05/brazils-disastrous-2018-presidential-race-teaches-key-lesson-for-all-demagogues-thrive-only-when-establishments-fail/

(not that we aren't 75% of the way there)

[thebuzzardman]

The most salient point of the whole thing:

THE VITAL POINT that U.S., British and western European elites – still traumatized by and incapable of explaining Trump, Brexit and the rise of über-nationalistic parties – have spent two years desperately evading is now also more vivid than ever in Brazil. Authoritarianism does not sprout up randomly. Demagogues cannot thrive when political institutions are healthy, just and equitable.

Threats to liberal democracy and the erosion of political liberties are possible only when the population loses faith, trust and confidence in institutions of authority. That is when societies become vulnerable to appeals by those who threaten – or who promise – to burn it all down. That is when media outlets and experts lose their ability to warn the public of lies and dangers: because the public, for good reason, sees those institutions and those experts not as guardians against dangers, deceit and suffering but as prime perpetrators of them.

When the population sees those authorities as the author of their suffering, then denunciations of Trump, Brexit, Marine LePen and Bolsonaro are not just ineffective but counter-productive. The more someone is hated by the once-elevated-but-now-despised precincts of elite authority, the more attractive their targets of scorn become.

[Clyde_Style]

Gates and Manafort, a tale awash in hidden millions and betrayal

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/07/politics/gates-manafort-trial/index.html

The trial is going very poorly for Paulie Walnuts

QUOTE:

"In his eye-popping appearance, Gates said he had helped Manafort commit crimes, that they had opened 15 foreign accounts they did not report to the federal government and knew were illegal, and that he had lied on behalf of his former boss.
Gates, who has a young family and faced the prospect of a prolonged jail term had he not signed the plea deal, said bank accounts in Cyprus they used when helping a politician on the island were used to funnel millions of dollars from the oligarch backers of their political clients in Ukraine."

---------------

Just a reminder about a very likely Cyprus connection that the MSM continues to fail to report on. Wilbur Ross, Secretary of Commerce, was the vice-chairman of the Bank of Cyprus. There you have the combination of Ross, Deutsche Bank and Russian Oligarchs. Manafort may have also actually funneled his own transactions under Ross' watch.

Trump's commerce secretary oversaw Russia deal while at Bank of Cyprus

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/23/wilbur-ross-russian-deal-bank-of-cyprus-donald-trump-commerce-secretary

QUOTE:

In 2014, the Bank of Cyprus was still considered to be in a precarious state following a dramatic €10bn rescue of Cyprus’s banking sector by the ECB and the IMF. Under the terms of the deal, many of the bank’s wealthy Russian deposit holders lost their cash and became shareholders in the bank.

Ross, who had made billions of dollars years earlier by betting on bankrupt steel mills, was known for taking risky bets. But his decision to inject €400m into the bank with other investors encompassed a different kind of risk. It put him at the centre of the biggest financial institution in a country that was widely considered to be a tax haven for Russian oligarchs, even as the US and EU were imposing sanctions on Russia. In 2014, the year he made his investment, the US State Department considered Cyprus an area of “primary concern” for money laundering, according to its official assessment.

Ross was appointed vice-chairman at the bank after his investment in 2014, a post he shared with a deposit holder-turned-shareholder, Vladimir Strzhalkovsky, referred to in Russian media as a former KGB official and Putin ally. According to the bank’s annual reports, the two attended two board meetings together in 2014 and as many as five together in 2015 before Strzhalkovsky’s May 2015 resignation from the board. One of the questions that has been posed to Ross by Democratic senators is whether he ever had contact with Strzhalkovsky.

One of Ross’s first big decisions at the bank was the appointment of former Deutsche Bank chief executive Josef Ackermann as chairman, whom he chose in part because of Ackermann’s “huge Rolodex”, according to a 2014 Bloomberg interview.

Ackermann’s ties to Russia were especially strong, including a warm relationship with Putin and Herman Gref of Sberbank.

[Clyde_Style]

One other thing to keep an eye out for is Trump's family.

Donnie sold out his son this past week on Twitter basically ensuring Donald Jr. will go to prison.

My prediction is the only Trump family loyalty you may see is the rest of the clan banding together vs. their father if only out of self-preservation now that their pops has signaled he only cares about himself in the end.

Don Jr. is on the hook for treason and perjury after lying to Congress.

Ivanka was the lead Trump on multiple money laundering RE deals. Felix Sater was her partner on those and he has spilled the beans to Mueller already.

Kushner has all kinds of crimes to deal with from middle east chicanery George Nader has already likely nailed him for, financial fraud and lying to the feds.

The kids know what they have to do now, but they may not be smart enough to work as a team. Don Jr. is very slow-witted, so if he doesn't flip on his father, then Jared and Ivanka may have to bypass him and flip as a couple.

Ivanka likes to occasionally make a good show of defending her father, but those soundbites have become fewer and far between. She's a criminal like her father and with decades of life ahead of her and a family to raise the moral calculations may not be as hard for her to make as some assume even if she is daddy's little girl and will feel bad about seeing her father go to prison.

Eric Trump is under investigation by NYS for charity fraud, but at this time is not yet considered to be part of the federal investigation into collusion.

The clock is ticking on this mafia family now that the Godfather has shown he will save no one but himself.