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Brewers @ Braves Series Thread

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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#81 » by mkegb » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:41 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
mkegb wrote:
bizarro wrote:Man, has Moustakas been a god-send since arriving. One could definitely say the opposite of Schoop. He's quite capable of 3-pitch K's and gidp's. And, sprinkly on the occasional untimely error. Quite a haul by the Crew to date.


The Schoop trade was just stupid. Moose was a great move and there was no real need for Schoop. That trade has hurt us for sure.

Sterns has made two bad moves during his time here and they are both in regard to 2B.


Schoop has been trash but if you can’t at least see how Moustakas and Shaw still get plenty of ABs I’m not sure what to tell you.


I do see that but we gave up a promising P for a scrub we didn’t even need.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#82 » by Kerb Hohl » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:41 pm

mkegb wrote:Jennings is garbage


Jennings still owns lefties. We gambled by switching Albies to the RH side with a depleted bullpen and lost. But Jennings does have a role.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#83 » by mkegb » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:43 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
mkegb wrote:Jennings is garbage


Jennings still owns lefties. We gambled by switching Albies to the RH side with a depleted bullpen and lost. But Jennings does have a role.


Too bad CC doesn’t use him that way. He stretches him and we get burned a lot because of it. If he ONLY faces lefties, ok.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#84 » by Kerb Hohl » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:43 pm

mkegb wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:
mkegb wrote:
The Schoop trade was just stupid. Moose was a great move and there was no real need for Schoop. That trade has hurt us for sure.

Sterns has made two bad moves during his time here and they are both in regard to 2B.


Schoop has been trash but if you can’t at least see how Moustakas and Shaw still get plenty of ABs I’m not sure what to tell you.


I do see that but we gave up a promising P for a scrub we didn’t even need.


I’m sure when Stearns traded for him he said, “oh, I expect this flawed player to have one of the worst stretches of his career for us and therefore I’ll make the trade.”

I’m not saying Schoop is an ideal player but it was a gamble that he appears to be losing. That said, if Schoop was or will be similar to what he was for his career, he’d at least be helping the team.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#85 » by kid idioteque » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:44 pm

If we don't make the playoffs I'd kind of like the staff to completely turn over. Start fresh.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#86 » by Kerb Hohl » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:45 pm

mkegb wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:
mkegb wrote:Jennings is garbage


Jennings still owns lefties. We gambled by switching Albies to the RH side with a depleted bullpen and lost. But Jennings does have a role.


Too bad CC doesn’t use him that way. He stretches him and we get burned a lot because of it. If he ONLY faces lefties, ok.


CC 1000% uses him that way UNLESS we are already losing. His ERA sucks because righties have destroyed him when the game is out of hand. If we had 40 relievers he could use him only against lefties.

Albies is a switch hitter that I believe is better from the left hand side. It was the correct play and he lost.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#87 » by kid idioteque » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:45 pm

Jacob Barnes has no business being the the majors.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#88 » by Kerb Hohl » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:47 pm

This is my favorite thing about baseball. Counsell has managed this game as well as he can given splits/percentages and he’s lost every bet.

Therefore, he’s an idiot.

The only thing you can debate is moving Knebel out of the closers role moved the bullpen up and therefore we won’t even use Jeffress. But that’s what the armchair fans wanted.

Edit: the other debate is pinch-hitting Chacin in the 5th. I get that because you are assuming a long game and that you will use Thames and Shaw later in more important situations.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#89 » by livestrong4ever » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:54 pm

ump wants the game over so is like, who cares. lets call everything a strike. cain had no choice to swing at it
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#90 » by mkegb » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:00 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:This is my favorite thing about baseball. Counsell has managed this game as well as he can given splits/percentages and he’s lost every bet.

Therefore, he’s an idiot.

The only thing you can debate is moving Knebel out of the closers role moved the bullpen up and therefore we won’t even use Jeffress. But that’s what the armchair fans wanted.

Edit: the other debate is pinch-hitting Chacin in the 5th. I get that because you are assuming a long game and that you will use Thames and Shaw later in more important situations.


And pulling Anderson after he just had two scoreless innings and calling a hit and run with Moose/Perez with 2 strikes and playing Schoop at all. I’m sure I’m missing something else.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#91 » by MickeyDavis » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:02 pm

Whatever Schoop will get in arby next year is too much.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#92 » by Kerb Hohl » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:10 pm

mkegb wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:This is my favorite thing about baseball. Counsell has managed this game as well as he can given splits/percentages and he’s lost every bet.

Therefore, he’s an idiot.

The only thing you can debate is moving Knebel out of the closers role moved the bullpen up and therefore we won’t even use Jeffress. But that’s what the armchair fans wanted.

Edit: the other debate is pinch-hitting Chacin in the 5th. I get that because you are assuming a long game and that you will use Thames and Shaw later in more important situations.


And pulling Anderson after he just had two scoreless innings and calling a hit and run with Perez and playing Schoop. I’m sure I’m missing something else.


This is impossible to discuss with someone who tunes in and every move is viewed from “I believe our coach is literally trying to lose the game, let me find a way to argue that perspective.”

It’s better to assume the right intentions. If the moves pay off most of the time (over the season, they have) it’s a lot easier to assess.

COunsell is not perfect but made mostly the highest percentage play given how they manage and how the rest of the game went.

You only remember the ones that **** up and therefore every coach is going to suck and you’re going to hate any baseball team you cheer for.

I’ll respond to this: starting Schoop: he started in the stead of Shaw and Thames against a lefty. If you assume Schoop is the decent/flawed hitter that he has been for about 5 years, then he should start.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#93 » by blazza18 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:13 pm

We were up 2 with the top of the order coming up in the 5th when Knebel came on. It's ridiculous that that is too high leverage for him. Another **** loss. Glad the Cubs can only own us for two games this week.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#94 » by Kerb Hohl » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:17 pm

blazza18 wrote:We were up 2 with the top of the order coming up in the 5th when Knebel came on. It's ridiculous that that is too high leverage for him. Another **** loss. Glad the Cubs can only own us for two games this week.


Well, I’m not sure what side you were on but the “we need a closer that isn’t Knebel” crowd won’t come back on here and take the loss but they should.

If Knebel is the semi-closer and saved for later, you go some else for 2 outs, Jennings for Freeman/Markakis and maybe Albies before them, then Burnes. Then Jeffress for the 7th/8th and pray that Knebel holds on in the 9th.

Instead, I don’t have an issue with how they did it. Knebel gets the first 2 out. Keep him in against Freeman/Markakis and pray because you’ll need Jennings for them later. The worst you’ll be is tied. Instead he gives up a run which honestly I was almost happy with (which is sad). What they did made sense from the idea that Knebel was now not the somewhat closer. They played their next best guys in the right matchups hoping to survive until a 2 inning Jeffress which obviously never came.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#95 » by Bernman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:24 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:This is my favorite thing about baseball. Counsell has managed this game as well as he can given splits/percentages and he’s lost every bet.

Therefore, he’s an idiot.

The only thing you can debate is moving Knebel out of the closers role moved the bullpen up and therefore we won’t even use Jeffress. But that’s what the armchair fans wanted.

Edit: the other debate is pinch-hitting Chacin in the 5th. I get that because you are assuming a long game and that you will use Thames and Shaw later in more important situations.


You're contradicting your supposed philosophy. When it comes to relievers you argue it's antiquated thinking to believe that the later innings mean that much more. Now in regards to pinch hit options you're arguing they do. Try to have a philosophy and stick with it.

He didn't even end up using Thames or Arcia in the game. Instead he uses one of his better hitting pitchers at the beginning of an inning ahead of his leadoff men. You're defending the indefensible. Maybe you could argue it if there were 2 out and nobody on. But there was nobody out. There's an emphasis on clearing your pitcher so he's not up the next inning to largely sabotage an inning. Here Counsell made a choice for it to be partially sabotaged. That first out largely killed a big inning there. Because if the first guy gets on, Cain isn't compelled to run to make things happen, Yelich walks, so you'd have the basis loaded and no out. Then Aguilar doubled which would have cleared the basis and probably led to a 4th runner scoring eventually. That's a swing point in the game. Now the Braves feel fortunate to still be in the game. They're playing with house money.

Maybe the other critiques are unfair, but he at least erred in that way, which is quite significant. Let coaches take their flack for it. They're big boys and getting compensated well. Should be able to handle it. Don't need you to defend them even when they clearly don't deserve it.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#96 » by Mags FTW » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:55 pm

19 hits and a loss?

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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#97 » by Kerb Hohl » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:05 am

Bernman wrote:
Kerb Hohl wrote:This is my favorite thing about baseball. Counsell has managed this game as well as he can given splits/percentages and he’s lost every bet.

Therefore, he’s an idiot.

The only thing you can debate is moving Knebel out of the closers role moved the bullpen up and therefore we won’t even use Jeffress. But that’s what the armchair fans wanted.

Edit: the other debate is pinch-hitting Chacin in the 5th. I get that because you are assuming a long game and that you will use Thames and Shaw later in more important situations.


You're contradicting your supposed philosophy. When it comes to relievers you argue it's antiquated thinking to believe that the later innings mean that much more. Now in regards to pinch hit options you're arguing they do. Try to have a philosophy and stick with it.

He didn't even end up using Thames or Arcia in the game. Instead he uses one of his better hitting pitchers at the beginning of an inning ahead of his leadoff men. You're defending the indefensible. Maybe you could argue it if there were 2 out and nobody on. But there was nobody out. There's an emphasis on clearing your pitcher so he's not up the next inning to largely sabotage an inning. Here Counsell made a choice for it to be partially sabotaged. That first out largely killed a big inning there. Because if the first guy gets on, Cain isn't compelled to run to make things happen, Yelich walks, so you'd have the basis loaded and no out. Then Aguilar doubled which would have cleared the basis and probably led to a 4th runner scoring eventually. That's a swing point in the game. Now the Braves feel fortunate to still be in the game. They're playing with house money.

Maybe the other critiques are unfair, but he at least erred in that way, which is quite significant. Let coaches take their flack for it. They're big boys and getting compensated well. Should be able to handle it. Don't need you to defend them even when they clearly don't deserve it.


Ok, honest question for the people mad that he pinch hit Chacin.

Do you really think he turned to the bench and said “well, I’m really drunk right now, let’s pick out of a random guy on the bench to pinch hit!”

Here was the logic: it’s the 5th inning and Chacin was leading off an inning in front of the top of the order. He’s barely a worse hitter than Arcia and Arcia might be needed as a defensive sub later.

His gamble was Thames/Shaw may be needed with men on base later since they planned to make 3-5 more pitching changes. It failed. But it’s defensible.

I honestly don’t prefer to defend basically everything the Brewers do, but baseball is annoying as hell because if there is ever a negative result, the manager sucks and nobody can see what the attempted decision was.

I do think this was the most questionable decision of the day because it was a very calculated risk. It is just the non-stop disdain at every move which (not this one, but most of) are the best percentage move you can make just because it failed.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#98 » by Kerb Hohl » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:09 pm

Correction from earlier: Albies does hit better from the RH side of the plate. Should've left Burnes in for 1 more AB and then gone to Jennings. There's your legit **** up.
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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#99 » by MickeyDavis » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:20 pm

Mags FTW wrote:19 hits and a loss?


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Re: Brewers @ Braves Series Thread 

Post#100 » by JimmyTheKid » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 pm

I don't blame Craig for anything from Sunday's game. We needed to hit better with guys on base. I've been slurping Yelich all year but he had two really bad AB's late in the game. And it sucks that Chase Anderson is Chase Anderson again.

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