Political Roundtable Part XXI

[stilldropin20]

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[pancakes3]

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if this is supposed to be some sort of left v. right gotcha, manafort is kept in solitary for his own safety and his attorneys could ask for him to be in genpop, and the judge who set bail in the NM case was appointed by a R governor.

but i'm sure you knew that because you are a well-informed consumer of news.

[stilldropin20]

trump kisses women and grabs their crotchs and calls them names...this guy literally beats women. Since we heard the tape for 3 weeks straight on CNN and endless criticisms of trumps behavior i wonder how long CNN will spend talking about this. so far zero.

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[verbal8]

You guys, this is where I work

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/white-house-uses-foreign-aid-agency-to-give-jobs-to-trump-loyalists/2018/07/28/3f819ac2-86da-11e8-8589-5bb6b89e3772_story.html?utm_term=.3c91e557ec78

Not sure there's much there there actually, but wow we're in the news!

WHAT! You work for an agency that promotes economic growth in poor countries! I thought we wanted to keep them poor so that their peeps would immigrate here

We're trying to convince countries that being friends with us is a good thing.

I bet your job is a lot harder since Jan 2017.

And Capitalizm iz grate

Do you have to promote kleptolism now?

[Ruzious]

because omarosa said so?? i'll wait to hear the tape. I wont hold my breath.

No, she's a lousy character in this farcical reality show. It's EVERYTHING that's gone on the last year and a half - including the idiotic way he responded to her. It's f'n ridiculous. Every day, it's more childish shyt. You'd have to be an ass-clown fool not to see it and a wasted human being not to care.

I’m supposed to care about all of these distractions? Is what I care about:

1. Jobs! I want more jobs than those looking for work.

2. Because the scarcity of Labor will increase wages naturally.

3. Trillions that are overseas to be repatriated so as to collect taxes on that money and those businesses that are registered outside of our continental borders to avoid our income tax system. I want it all repatriated.

4. I want manufacturing to return to the United States so as to have even more jobs here and more corporate income here in the US so as to collect even more taxes here in the US.

5. After everyone is back to work I want our entitlements cut as well as reduce the cost drivers so as to reduce our fiscal costs and our nations debt.

6. Rebuild the military. And charge all of our allies and the rest of the world‘s nations significantly more as a weed police the world. The burden of keeping the entire globe safe should not be put on the American tax pair anymore. We need to make everybody else pay. Take a cut of the oil? Whatever? I don’t care. Make them pay.

All of this palace intrigue? I’m not convinced this is something I should care about like at all.

But I do understand that that is all the left has to complain about the Trump administration. Palace intrigue. Palace intrigue. Palace intrigue. They’re fake Russian hoax has been exposed. So let’s just get back to calling everybody on the right a racist. That’s all you got to win elections. Which should tell you everything you need to know about your party and your platform. It is devoid of ideas. You’ve got nothing. The last eight years of Obama not only gave us nothing but doubled our debt with nothing at all the show for it except a massive racial divide. Thanks Obama.



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Bull f'n shyt! You bring up far more garbage about Hillary and any other Dem you can find than everyone else here brings up on Trump - by far. And you usually giggle like a little school girl while doing it. I might buy that crap you just posted if your actions didn't show you're full of shyt.

[dckingsfan]

No, she's a lousy character in this farcical reality show. It's EVERYTHING that's gone on the last year and a half - including the idiotic way he responded to her. It's f'n ridiculous. Every day, it's more childish shyt. You'd have to be an ass-clown fool not to see it and a wasted human being not to care.

I’m supposed to care about all of these distractions? Is what I care about:

1. Jobs! I want more jobs than those looking for work.

2. Because the scarcity of Labor will increase wages naturally.

3. Trillions that are overseas to be repatriated so as to collect taxes on that money and those businesses that are registered outside of our continental borders to avoid our income tax system. I want it all repatriated.

4. I want manufacturing to return to the United States so as to have even more jobs here and more corporate income here in the US so as to collect even more taxes here in the US.

5. After everyone is back to work I want our entitlements cut as well as reduce the cost drivers so as to reduce our fiscal costs and our nations debt.

6. Rebuild the military. And charge all of our allies and the rest of the world‘s nations significantly more as a weed police the world. The burden of keeping the entire globe safe should not be put on the American tax pair anymore. We need to make everybody else pay. Take a cut of the oil? Whatever? I don’t care. Make them pay.

All of this palace intrigue? I’m not convinced this is something I should care about like at all.

But I do understand that that is all the left has to complain about the Trump administration. Palace intrigue. Palace intrigue. Palace intrigue. They’re fake Russian hoax has been exposed. So let’s just get back to calling everybody on the right a racist. That’s all you got to win elections. Which should tell you everything you need to know about your party and your platform. It is devoid of ideas. You’ve got nothing. The last eight years of Obama not only gave us nothing but doubled our debt with nothing at all the show for it except a massive racial divide. Thanks Obama.
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Bull f'n shyt! You bring up far more garbage about Hillary and any other Dem you can find than everyone else here brings up on Trump - by far. And you usually giggle like a little school girl while doing it. I might buy that crap you just posted if your actions didn't show you're full of shyt.

And 1) - we were already on track. 2) It hasn't worked out that way - production workers real wage growth was negative under this administration. 3) have to agree. 4) Manufacturing jobs continue to fall worldwide. 5) This administration has already made the problem worse. 6) What % do we spend on defense compared to the next country? Why don't the joint chiefs want to see an increase?

So, 1 of 6 - not bad. The last two years of Trump gave us nothing but killing our debt load with nothing at all the show for it except a massive racial divide, alienating us from the rest of the world and telling our kids its okay to be a corrupt serial liar. Thanks Trump.

[FAH1223]

Mercatus Study also finds Medicare For All drops provider payments by 10%

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[verbal8]

Trump is about to get Papa John'd. Hard R or nah? :O

Sadly I don't think a tape really changes things. Maybe there is a small segment of his base where it would be going too far?
But haven't there been enough examples for people who care about equality or decency to abandon him already?

This situation is a sign of how things have degraded in politics - the standards to run a Pizza company are higher than what is demanded of the POTUS.

That being said I do think Trump is getting to a point near "political insolvency". Not quite to the point of "bankruptcy", but it is a point where his political negatives outweigh his positives. I also can't imagine many Republicans in Congress are thrilled with him on a personal level - even if challenging him public seems to be toxic within the party.

What may cause "bankruptcy" is if Republicans see him as a political liability - which could happen with a large blue wave. There even end up being some Republican support in the Senate for impeachment. If the Republicans let things get so bad the public outcry calls for both Trump and Pence being removed, that would mean the speaker becomes president.

[gtn130]

Wrong again gtn. I generally support the Corp tax cuts but I think it was a huge mistake not to include an alternate minimum tax. I think the individual tax reform was misguided in many respects. Some good stuff and some dumb stuff. Mostly dumb.

Hey popper, one thing you should try to retain in the recesses of your Fox News addled lizard brain is that the things you post on the internet are still on the internet even after you've forgotten about them. Here is an exchange we had in January:

Weren't you in favor of the tax cuts? Lol

I was. I’ve also posted here in support of a wealth tax above a certain level (say 25 million) if we can do it without scaring wealth offshore. Do you want to LoL at that too. Why laugh at all? Why not just try to understand? Trump inherited a structural annual deficit of approx 700 billion. I think CBO says the tax cut adds 10 to 20 percent to that annual deficit. It’s a no brainer to me because IMO the economy should boom. Once the boom is fully underway then let’s see where we are. As you know the CBO is almost always wrong.

So you can save your bad faith fiscal conservatism and acknowledge that you're a partisan hack and an ideologue pretending to be 'moderate'.

[popper]

Wrong again gtn. I generally support the Corp tax cuts but I think it was a huge mistake not to include an alternate minimum tax. I think the individual tax reform was misguided in many respects. Some good stuff and some dumb stuff. Mostly dumb.

Hey popper, one thing you should try to retain in the recesses of your Fox News addled lizard brain is that the things you post on the internet are still on the internet even after you've forgotten about them. Here is an exchange we had in January:

Weren't you in favor of the tax cuts? Lol

I was. I’ve also posted here in support of a wealth tax above a certain level (say 25 million) if we can do it without scaring wealth offshore. Do you want to LoL at that too. Why laugh at all? Why not just try to understand? Trump inherited a structural annual deficit of approx 700 billion. I think CBO says the tax cut adds 10 to 20 percent to that annual deficit. It’s a no brainer to me because IMO the economy should boom. Once the boom is fully underway then let’s see where we are. As you know the CBO is almost always wrong.

So you can save your bad faith fiscal conservatism and acknowledge that you're a partisan hack and an ideologue pretending to be 'moderate'.

Boy you are dense. Nothing you posted reveals any inconsistency in my thoughts. In an up or down vote I support tax reform with some misgivings and caveats. I would have voted for it over the status quo. You probably haven’t noticed that we are collecting more in tax receipts now than we did before tax reform. Less in business taxes which has helped to incent business expansion and hiring and more in individual tax payments. We’re spending more however and that’s adding to the deficits.

I’ve never pretended to be moderate. I’m a conservative and have always said so. That doesn’t mean I agree with every aspect of the platform. Your comments “bad faith fiscal conservative, partisan hack, etc” are amusing. You continually reveal yourself as one who is intellectually ill equipped to have any kind meaningful debate.

[gtn130]

I thought I was being charitable in saying popper forgot about his original position on the tax cuts, but since he's now doubling down with NO INCONSISTENCY! YOU'RE THE INCONSISTENCY! I guess he's just a dishonest person, which is standard conservatism.

Like, popper's recent statement about the tax cuts can only be interpreted as "I only support the corporate tax cuts; the rest was mostly dumb." I showed him his post about the tax cuts back in January in which he is saying he supports adding '10-20% to the annual deficit' because of mythical economic growth (directly towing the party line), and he says there's no inconsistency in that position.

[gtn130]

January 2018
me: popper, do you support the tax cuts?
popper: Yes. Also, don't forget, the CBO is often wrong!!!

Yesterday
me: popper, you went to bat for the tax cuts last year
popper: Wrong. I mostly only supported the corporate tax cuts

Today
me: Ok, let me show you this post where you broadly supported and defended the tax cuts.
[*shows post*]
popper: No inconsistency there!

[Wizardspride]

NEVER forget.

I certainly won't.

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[dckingsfan]

Just one thing about the tax cuts - because they are complicated. And, although the bill in general was bad there were pieces that were pretty good.

Complexity - This bill did nothing to simplify the tax code - it made it worse. This is bad, the more complexity the more we have to invest in folks that do accounting vs. those that actually produce goods.

Carveouts - This bill increased the number of carveouts - that is bad.

Personal Tax Cuts - This is bad. It drives up national debt and does nothing to spur the economy. Zonk, feel free to jump in here with studies on this.

Repatriation - This is good, there is no reason to leave this money off-shore. Regardless of how it is used, that is better than the money just sitting in foreign banks.

Corporate Tax Cuts - These were good, our corporate tax rates were way to high (although this is skewed by Complexity/Carveouts above). Unlike personal tax cuts, corporate tax cuts do spur the economy.

I give the tax bill a failing grade because it doesn't address the complexity in the tax code, fairness of the tax code or help address the national debt.

[Ruzious]

NEVER forget.

I certainly won't.

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And while I'm no fan of Amarosa, it should never be acceptible that our President is calling an African-American woman a dog in order to discredit her claim that he used a racial slur. And the fact that I have to point this out to some people makes me sick.

[nate33]

NEVER forget.

I certainly won't.

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I see. So blacks are immune from criticism. You can criticize whites, Jews, women, Hispanics and everyone else (as Trump certainly does), but the minute he treats blacks the same way, he is racist.

Cry me a river. Screaming "RACIST" doesn't work anymore.

In other news, Trump's approval rating among blacks has risen from 17% last year to 31% this year according to Rasmussen. While I doubt the accuracy of that number, I suspect the trend is real. The NAACP just released a poll showing Trump's support among blacks at 21%. While surely that's not high, it's a heck of a lot better than the 6-10% most Republicans get.

[nate33]

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[nate33]

Trump insults everybody. He is an equal opportunity insulter.

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[stilldropin20]

January 2018
me: popper, do you support the tax cuts?
popper: Yes. Also, don't forget, the CBO is often wrong!!!

Yesterday
me: popper, you went to bat for the tax cuts last year
popper: Wrong. I mostly only supported the corporate tax cuts

Today
me: Ok, let me show you this post where you broadly supported and defended the tax cuts.
[*shows post*]
popper: No inconsistency there!

GTN, DCKINGS and others. the original CBO report does NOT account for one single penny being repatriated from oversees.

We need to look at the total federal revenue. You guys keep talking about tax cuts in terms of %'s of cuts to various groups...but the most important thing in terms of tax plans is total federal revenue collected.

in 2007 and 2008(Bush) we collected about 2.6 trillion. Obama first 4 years years total federal revenue:

1. $2.1 T
2. $2.2 T
3. $2.3 T
4. $2.4 T


Trump:

1. $3.3T 2017
2. $3.4T (2018 new estimate based on Trillions oversees being repatriated and deregulation both stimulating our economy and bringing more and more total taxable income into the fray). yes everyone is paying less taxes besides the wealthy that live in expensive states. Corporations small and large are paying less. People making under 80K are paying less. But the total federal income remains on track with a slight uptick.

Note: it will be interesting to see how much additional revenue is brought in from the trump tariffs. I wont be surprised if we hit $3.5T for fiscal year 2018. With nearly all of us % paying less taxes!!!!!!!!!!

[I_Like_Dirt]

I see. So blacks are immune from criticism. You can criticize whites, Jews, women, Hispanics and everyone else (as Trump certainly does), but the minute he treats blacks the same way, he is racist.

Cry me a river. Screaming "RACIST" doesn't work anymore.

Well, for one, now you can't criticize those others the same way. That's sort of the point. Whites aren't actually criticized the same way, though, no matter how much you want to put your head in the sand. The wealth disparity changes the dynamic and the responsibilities overall - racism punches down hard and punches up really weak.

As for Trump specifically, you're right, he (or those in his circles) absolutely criticize Jews, Hispanics, women, etc. I've never seen Trump criticize whites or men, the same way, though. Not even close. Charlottesville was really telling. He will call out the odd white individual or the odd man, but never with the same conviction, consistency or frequency relative total interactions.

As for whether or not screaming racist works or not anymore, I think that's entirely beside the point. Racism exists, and frankly, I'm going to suggest that absolutely everyone is racist, myself included. It's how we respond to the knowledge of being racist that matters. Trump... responds incredibly poorly, though that shouldn't have been surprise given his long track record even before becoming president.

That said, I will say that tweet, indirectly, represents a bit of an issue within the Democratic party. They all fight for their own causes but weakly at best take up the causes of others - and weirdly enough they often seem to guard their causes, making it harder for others to get on board because they aren't truly representative of the cause or whatever. This leads to a disparate unity and makes it very difficult to rally people together. It doesn't make that tweet wrong, or anything like that, or even the person who tweeted that horrible or missing out or anything like that. It's a far more macro picture I'm looking at.

Trump in particular is all about Trump. I've been saying it all along and I've seen no evidence thus far that changes my mind on the subject. Basically, he's discriminating against everyone through his actions, though weirdly enough, the one exception appears to be Russia where he treads really, really softly and basically has to be forced into anything that might be seen as acting in a manner Russia might not want. He just happens to be discriminating against some more than others and for a lot of voters, they appear to be okay with eating a **** sandwich if others have to eat a bigger **** sandwich at the same time.