What will Hawks offense look like under Lloyd, Lin and Young Trae?

[Jamaaliver]

Any thoughts on what style of play we will (should) embrace moving forward?

Fielding a head coach with a background primarily in defense -- while building around 4 players who's calling cards are all on offense -- could be problematic.

*Philly largely avoided using Pick-and-Rolls last season under Brett Brown. But Lin and Trae both seem like they'd thrive utilizing it.

*Trae should play off-ball at least a few minutes per night to create open shots for him and backdoor lanes for the other players.

*Pierce states he wants Collins shooting more threes. (Ugggh) And will likely embrace 5 out bball. We saw glimpses of this in Utah summer league. With little success, I might add.


Thoughts?
Concerns?
Predictions?

[Jamaaliver]

Atlanta Hawks: How John Collins Can Complement Their Young Splash Brothers

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While the Hawks are not going to be able to copy the Warriors drive-avoiding back-screen heavy scheme due to their current personnel, they are going to run an awful lot of perimeter action. New Head Coach Lloyd Pierce is more of a defensive guy, so I think the scheme is going to be quite loose at first.

With their first lottery pick since 2007, the Atlanta Hawks selected Trae Young out of Oklahoma. The Hawks followed it up with the selection of Kevin Huerter out of Maryland. He will likely be their long-term two guard, and his lights out shooting have caused people to put forth the popular narrative that the Hawks are trying to create the splash brothers of the Eastern Conference.

Ultimately though, for the Hawks version of their splash brothers experiment to work, they need some front-court help and an anchor at the center position. John Collins was the final first-round draft pick of the Mike Budenholzer draft. He was a play-type phenom in his year at Wake Forest, posting value from all the types that are needed from a modern big man. He also flashed a jump-shot and some form of defensive versatility, which was needed in Atlanta after the failure of the Dwight Howard experiment.

The Hawks are clearly valuing elite shot creation and perimeter shooting as they drafted two sharpshooters and traded for Jeremy Lin, but they will have to do things in a different way to Golden State. The Warriors do not really need an inside presence because they have slashers everywhere and a playmaking small-ball five, no other team in NBA history has had that luxury. John Collins will be key to stretching teams on the interior, and he showed signs last year that he can be the guy to do this.

The key to any big in the modern NBA is the pick-and-roll. Post-ups are being used scarcely, and as decoys for split cutters, so we now judge most big men on their ability as screeners and roll men or shooters off picks. Collins’ screening was inconsistent at times, but he had a clear desire to try and improve as the season went on. He was 22nd in the NBA in screen assists per game, ahead of players such as Kristaps Porzingis and Clint Capela.

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Like with most [young big men], the Atlanta Hawks will be expecting John Collins to improve the usage and efficiency of his jump shot. In an interview with Mo Mooncey of Hoop Genius, John Collins told viewers that incoming Head Coach Lloyd Pierce wants him to shoot more three-pointers.

In his rookie year, Collins was mostly limited to corner threes. He took only 44 threes in the entire year, making 34% of them. The Hawks ran a lot of sets with John Collins at the elbow and his pick and pop usage were scarce.

If Collins’ jump shot improves, then there is a high chance that the Hawks can run a five-out system for a high portion of the game. This only increases Collins’ chance of receiving dump-off passes and even getting some looks when the Hawks use he and Dedmon as screeners before one pulls to the perimeter and one rolls to the basket.

Collins will never be a flat out sharpshooter and I question whether the Hawks will find themselves in a position where they are drawing up specific shooting sets for him. But the whole point of drafting a high powered back-court was that they did not need Collins to be a high-powered big man. Instead, he can be the efficient player that maximizes the new Hawks back-court. Every good guard needs a reliable pick and roll partner and in this modern NBA, you cannot run an offense without at least one outside big. Having two is highly advantageous to the Atlanta Hawks, and I actually expect their offense to be very good in the upcoming season.

NBA Analysis

[Roy Tarpley]

Any thoughts on what style of play we will (should) embrace moving forward?

Fielding a head coach with a background primarily in defense -- while building around 4 players who's calling cards are all on offense -- could be problematic.

*Philly largely avoided using Pick-and-Rolls last season under Brett Brown. But Lin and Trae both seem like they'd thrive utilizing it.

*Trae should play off-ball at least a few minutes per night to create open shots for him and backdoor lanes for the other players.

*Pierce states he wants Collins shooting more threes. (Ugggh) And will likely embrace 5 out bball. We saw glimpses of this in Utah summer league. With little success, I might add.


Thoughts?
Concerns?
Predictions?

Great question, especially because Pierce has the reputation of a defensive coach. Even though his offensive mindset isn't clear, I'd imagine Pierce has been influenced by the offense in GS and PHI, and we'll see a fast-paced motion offense.

Also, looking at the personnel, you have 5 starters who can shoot from long-range, and the primary backups can shoot from long-range too, except Len and Plumlee.

Given Trae and Lin's penchant for PNR, I think that would have to be included somewhat in the offense. Also, Lin has a reputation for coaching on the floor so I could also see him providing assistance if Pierce needs help.

Overall, I'd expect a high pace offense, with lots of 3pts. It seems like the Hawks have the personnel to implement it too.

The corollary question is how good of a defense can the Hawks be? PHI improved by leaps and bounds because their defense got a lot better. If Pierce can apply that same model to the Hawks, with Dedmon, Collin, Prince, Bazemore all capable of solid defense, this year could be interesting.

[ChokeFasncists]

Any thoughts on what style of play we will (should) embrace moving forward?

Fielding a head coach with a background primarily in defense -- while building around 4 players who's calling cards are all on offense -- could be problematic.

*Philly largely avoided using Pick-and-Rolls last season under Brett Brown. But Lin and Trae both seem like they'd thrive utilizing it.

*Trae should play off-ball at least a few minutes per night to create open shots for him and backdoor lanes for the other players.

*Pierce states he wants Collins shooting more threes. (Ugggh) And will likely embrace 5 out bball. We saw glimpses of this in Utah summer league. With little success, I might add.


Thoughts?
Concerns?
Predictions?

Well, Trae calls himself being close to Nash and Collins close to STAT. (Linsanity says hi as well, if healthy)

I guess whatever MDA was doing, is doing and has influenced would be the main thing. Then add a little bit of the Spurs/Bud/Brett Brown/Kerr motion offense? It's good that most of the team has experience in that and there's no hurry to give major responsibilities to the rooks.

Lots of three point shooting.

Is there a big that can pass like Draymond? Maybe Prince? That would be nice for the smaller shooters.

[GoodDayLa]

Any thoughts on what style of play we will (should) embrace moving forward?

Fielding a head coach with a background primarily in defense -- while building around 4 players who's calling cards are all on offense -- could be problematic.

*Philly largely avoided using Pick-and-Rolls last season under Brett Brown. But Lin and Trae both seem like they'd thrive utilizing it.

*Trae should play off-ball at least a few minutes per night to create open shots for him and backdoor lanes for the other players.

*Pierce states he wants Collins shooting more threes. (Ugggh) And will likely embrace 5 out bball. We saw glimpses of this in Utah summer league. With little success, I might add.


Thoughts?
Concerns?
Predictions?

I think you identified all the issues pretty well.

Jeremy Lin and Trae Young are similiar in many ways. I believe they both do best helping a team's offense hum when they have a springy (or at least mobile & physical) 4 or 5 man who dives to the basket instead of stepping out.

Lin likes the confusion a diving big creates and seems to have strong results when his teams employ this strategy. Lin is not a high leaper so the diving big creates just enough problems where teams can't collapse on him in the paint and he's really good at deciding whether to finish or pass with the roll man on the other side.

When he does not have the roll man, Lin has to use speed to beat his defender and hope he can beat the defensive big down low on speed alone to get off his layups or he has to sacrifice his body to get the layup off because he can't leap above and throw it down. It's why Lin gets hammered even when he scores and why his body broke down from years of putting his body on the line to score on layups using speed and giving up his body. This is the same problem Young will face - he's not as fast or big as Lin and he's not a high leaper either. If he's unwilling to sacrifice his body the way Lin did all those years, he'll be missing a lot of layups this season. He will have issues finishing over the bigs this season if they play 5 out.

The only time Lin played with a guy who could catch over the top was in LA with Ed Davis. It looked great. I'm hoping Collins and Lin can do some of that or Len or whatever big man steps up to roll to the basket.

In Brooklyn, Lin did not have any diving bigs. His diving big was Hollis Jefferson if you even want to call it that. Imagine Prince being the diving big on this team - that's what Jeremy Lin was stuck with on the Nets and that's foolish basketball for most teams and part of the reason the Nets were so bad. They did not play to their personnel.

I suspect Trae Young will largely benefit from the diving big as well the same way Lin and Steve Nash utilized a diving athletic big to their advantage and to keep defenses compressed.

So I Hope the Hawks use a diving big strategy with Collins or Len or BOTH staggered and not go 5 out.

Look at the Rockets. Clint Capella is great for them with their roster because he puts pressure because he is exactly that diving big while you are stuck guarding CP3 Harden and sometime Eric Gordon too.

I feel the Hawk's roster is beautifully crafted to have at least 2-3 guys pick and roll and dive to the basket in Len and Collins and Dedmon. If your roster has rolling springy big men, they should use it instead of falling victim to 5 out basketball.

You could have Lin and Young play together and stagger screen and rolls on either side and with the constant pressure of a rolling big or a weak side big who can dive from the opposite end, it could be brutal for opponents if the Hawks can get it to come together. And when teams collapse, you still have 1 or 2 guys on the perimeter for that open 3.

Collins could be the Ed Davis/Amare this season and he should flourish if Young and LIn are allowed to play PnR basketball.

What I would like to see if Lin run the offense and try to work with the bigs like Collins to create that rolling big man game. Eventually you suck teams in. That's when you have Trae Young come off screens and have Lin hit him for tons of open 3s. And Trae can run secondary action if he catches the ball and the defense recovers.

I believe doing this, you'll have Collins and Young lead the team in scoring with Lin as the 3rd or 4th leading scorer at about 14-16PPG. And the team will play around .500 basketball.

No teams will do this though with Lin having the ball in hand to run the offense and I don't suspect Atlanta will either.

What I just described will more likely be Young working the ball with Lin running to the corners hoping for kick outs or sitting on th bench waiting to come in as a strict sub for Young. Hopefully that works too.

[ChokeFasncists]

The only time Lin played with a guy who could catch over the top was in LA with Ed Davis. It looked great. I'm hoping Collins and Lin can do some of that or Len or whatever big man steps up to roll to the basket.

Tyson Chandler! A bit of D12...... Dedmon should be able to do some of that.

You could have Lin and Young play together and stagger screen and rolls on either side and with the constant pressure of a rolling big or a weak side big who can dive from the opposite end, it could be brutal for opponents if the Hawks can get it to come together. And when teams collapse, you still have 1 or 2 guys on the perimeter for that open 3.

Lin and Kemba! Lin and DRuss was supposed to do that......lets hope Trae is better!

[Jamaaliver]

Well, Trae calls himself being close to Nash and Collins close to STAT. (Linsanity says hi as well, if healthy).

Lots of three point shooting.

Is there a big that can pass like Draymond? Maybe Prince? That would be nice for the smaller shooters.

The scouting report on Omari Spellman indicates this is a definite strength for him. Spacing the floor with both his shooting range and passing from the high post & perimeter.


At his age (21) and considering he already received a redshirt year in college (plus some top-notch coaching at Villanova), I could see Spellman taking on a key role in the offense sooner than later in large part because if his playmaking ability.


I just hope our offensive coaches are in the lab right now cooking up some useful schemes to take advantage of all the elite shooters we project to have.

I'd prefer Collins to be that elite inside scorer to take advantage of the spacing Lin, Young, Huerter, Prince and Spellman should provide.

Spoiler:

Much of the offseason has also been spent learning the new systems of first-year head coach Lloyd Pierce. With a new coach, comes a new learning curve. While not specific, Collins said it will be more than about new terminology.

“The system coach LP has is a little different,” Collins said. “Every coach isn’t going to be the same. There are some similarities. It’s just about learning to terms and new phrases. Not every coach uses the same terminology.

“He does want different stuff in the offense. I’m going to play a different way.”

AJC

[Jamaaliver]

Sounds like The PnR will indeed be embraced the coaching staff early -- in particular with Trae and Collins.


Via The Athletic and the homie steady:

“This year, we are going to look for John [Collins] to establish chemistry with Trae (Young) in the pick and roll." Said Schlenk, "For John, it’s going to be when to roll and when to slip and get out when (the defense) is (breaking) hard, when they are switching, when to pop back and be open for the open 3. That’s the growth we are going to see from him and for Trae to read those situations well.”



“Looking at new reads, being able to read new plays, shoot the 3, maybe drive and kick, drive and get to the cup,” Collins said of what he’s trying to accomplish this season. “Just being versatile and being able to guard multiple positions on defense. Just basically being a mismatch problem and being able to have Coach give me the confidence to say, ‘Yo, whatever their lineup is and whatever the game plan is, we can keep John in and make sure he’s involved in the game.’ That’s my goal.”

[Jamaaliver]

[size=123]New Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce explains what it’s like to move from assistant to head man[/size

The former 76ers assistant talks to SB Nation about the differences between the two jobs and how he plans to develop the young Hawks


SB NATION: What kind of team do you want to be?

LLOYD PIERCE: I get asked that question all the time. My job right now is to get a feel for who I have.


We have to be in great condition, we have to take advantage of our youth. We have to find a way to play high efficient basketball. Layups in transition, threes in transition, score before the defense can get set, play with pace.

SB Nation -- July 2018

[Roy Tarpley]

[size=123]New Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce explains what it’s like to move from assistant to head man[/size

The former 76ers assistant talks to SB Nation about the differences between the two jobs and how he plans to develop the young Hawks


SB NATION: What kind of team do you want to be?

LLOYD PIERCE: I get asked that question all the time. My job right now is to get a feel for who I have.


We have to be in great condition, we have to take advantage of our youth. We have to find a way to play high efficient basketball. Layups in transition, threes in transition, score before the defense can get set, play with pace.

SB Nation -- July 2018

I love all of this. I was impressed with how much ATL got out of its talent last year. But maybe that was all Bud. But this is exactly how ATL has to play: youth and energy, pace, transition ball -- Pierce sounds like he has a plan, and the players to make it happen.

[jayu70]

[size=123]New Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce explains what it’s like to move from assistant to head man[/size

The former 76ers assistant talks to SB Nation about the differences between the two jobs and how he plans to develop the young Hawks


SB NATION: What kind of team do you want to be?

LLOYD PIERCE: I get asked that question all the time. My job right now is to get a feel for who I have.


We have to be in great condition, we have to take advantage of our youth. We have to find a way to play high efficient basketball. Layups in transition, threes in transition, score before the defense can get set, play with pace.

SB Nation -- July 2018

I love all of this. I was impressed with how much ATL got out of its talent last year. But maybe that was all Bud. But this is exactly how ATL has to play: youth and energy, pace, transition ball -- Pierce sounds like he has a plan, and the players to make it happen.

That's been Bud's MO since being in Atl...he's never had top end talent.

[bws94]

Face pace won't work against all teams. Try that with GSW and you'll get blown out of the stadium. And some coaches and teams will try grindball and slowing the pace and forcing Atl into a half-court game. We'll see how Pierce adjusts to these types of opponents.

[steady]

Choke and BWS - Aren’t you guys having deja vu - I am. Fast pace, taking advantage of youth, running your offense before their defense gets set. It is like the strategy of Rockets and Hornets and even Nets, when Lin joined them .

I remember hearing in BKN how Lin helped Atkinson ease into being a head coach.

Given his history with LPierce hopefully Lin is able to make a similar contribution in that way in ATL

[ChokeFasncists]

Well, Trae calls himself being close to Nash and Collins close to STAT. (Linsanity says hi as well, if healthy).

Lots of three point shooting.

Is there a big that can pass like Draymond? Maybe Prince? That would be nice for the smaller shooters.

The scouting report on Omari Spellman indicates this is a definite strength for him. Spacing the floor with both his shooting range and passing from the high post & perimeter.


At his age (21) and considering he already received a redshirt year in college (plus some top-notch coaching at Villanova), I could see Spellman taking on a key role in the offense sooner than later in large part because if his playmaking ability.

Yea, it would be great if that happens. I have some reservations for this tho. He averaged 0.8 apg in college while Draymond around 4. Lets hope that works. Otherwise, Prince might be able to do it?

I just hope our offensive coaches are in the lab right now cooking up some useful schemes to take advantage of all the elite shooters we project to have.

I'd imagine they're studying hard what MDA, GSW, SAS (Bud and BB) have been doing. PnR, PnP, Pick-switch-mismatch-ISO etc.

I'd prefer Collins to be that elite inside scorer to take advantage of the spacing Lin, Young, Huerter, Prince and Spellman should provide.

STAT and Malone? That'd be awesome. Being able to shoot would open up his game and draw shot blockers away from the basket, even better. Age better too.

[ChokeFasncists]

[size=123]New Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce explains what it’s like to move from assistant to head man[/size

The former 76ers assistant talks to SB Nation about the differences between the two jobs and how he plans to develop the young Hawks


SB NATION: What kind of team do you want to be?

LLOYD PIERCE: I get asked that question all the time. My job right now is to get a feel for who I have.


We have to be in great condition, we have to take advantage of our youth. We have to find a way to play high efficient basketball. Layups in transition, threes in transition, score before the defense can get set, play with pace.

SB Nation -- July 2018

Nice, final the best way to play according to the roster at hand.

[ChokeFasncists]

Choke and BWS - Aren’t you guys having deja vu - I am. Fast pace, taking advantage of youth, running your offense before their defense gets set. It is like the strategy of Rockets and Hornets and even Nets, when Lin joined them .

I remember hearing in BKN how Lin helped Atkinson ease into being a head coach.

Given his history with LPierce hopefully Lin is able to make a similar contribution in that way in ATL

Amazing how MDA has become the visionary for the modern NBA and Linsanity was a poster child at a time. Lin's game definitely fits the latest development and he actually was the great Curry's understudy. Dam those linjuries! Fingers crossed.

He will definitely be able to help the rookie coach, he's seen it all. Plus apparently they had a very good relationship back in GSW. This is seriously deja vu, agreed. Houston - he was there for a while before getting waived; Lakers - he was born there, Nash? Hornets - Stephen Silas, assistant coach who helped him a lot with the Dubs; Nets - Kenny Atkinson, assistant during Linsanity, great developmental coach who was in Atlanta; now Lloyd Pierce who was similar to Silas in GS.

Just gotta stay healthy, bonus if he has become more mature and learned how to take care of the ball better.

[macd-gm]

Anyone know when training camp starts? The season starts so early now we must be close to camp.

[graymule]

Anyone know when training camp starts? The season starts so early now we must be close to camp.

October 1st. 6 weeks from today. Don't know how soon coaches and teem can practice.

Sounds like, at least early, everyone on the roster will play some. That's what pre season is all about!!!

[steady]

Well, Trae calls himself being close to Nash and Collins close to STAT. (Linsanity says hi as well, if healthy).

Lots of three point shooting.

Is there a big that can pass like Draymond? Maybe Prince? That would be nice for the smaller shooters.

The scouting report on Omari Spellman indicates this is a definite strength for him. Spacing the floor with both his shooting range and passing from the high post & perimeter.


At his age (21) and considering he already received a redshirt year in college (plus some top-notch coaching at Villanova), I could see Spellman taking on a key role in the offense sooner than later in large part because if his playmaking ability.

Yea, it would be great if that happens. I have some reservations for this tho. He averaged 0.8 apg in college while Draymond around 4. Lets hope that works. Otherwise, Prince might be able to do it?

I just hope our offensive coaches are in the lab right now cooking up some useful schemes to take advantage of all the elite shooters we project to have.

I'd imagine they're studying hard what MDA, GSW, SAS (Bud and BB) have been doing. PnR, PnP, Pick-switch-mismatch-ISO etc.

I'd prefer Collins to be that elite inside scorer to take advantage of the spacing Lin, Young, Huerter, Prince and Spellman should provide.

STAT and Malone? That'd be awesome. Being able to shoot would open up his game and draw shot blockers away from the basket, even better. Age better too.

Huerter is also supposed to be a good passer. Sometimes too risk taking, but skilled.

So including him and Spellman, and we already know Taurean and Bazemore can create for themselves and others ,the team has potential to be pretty good at running a motion offense, such as GS and other teams including Nets run. Will be interesting to see how much Pierce goes the motion offense route versus a more PG heavy PNR approach. They have the personnel to potentially be effective at both

I know they will be raw, and won't win a lot of games. But I do think they could be pretty fun to watch .. .
The same way Zach Lowe noted in Lin's first year at Nets that they were a sneaky good League Pass choice because of their system and how they played hard and played together

[Jamaaliver]

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