The Washington Nationals Thread

[WashWiz54]

That grand slam ended my interest this season.

I'll still catch them when I can, but that made them no longer "must see TV" for me. Hopefully some magical run can happen, but like I said earlier, I just don't see it with this group and this manager.

[80sballboy]

Injuries, bad managing, horrendous clutch hitting, terrible baserunning. You could say Dusty jinx. I'm not a huge fan of Dusty but he's Earl Weaver/Sparky Anderson compared to Davy.

[Ruzious]

That grand slam ended my interest this season.

I'll still catch them when I can, but that made them no longer "must see TV" for me. Hopefully some magical run can happen, but like I said earlier, I just don't see it with this group and this manager.

That was a killer - especially after Scherzer put on such a great performance - and it was the 2nd out of 3 games that the bullpen blew a multi-run lead. Having said that, it's still very possible they make the post-season, but they gotta start winning now. They're a long-shot either way, but they probably have a better chance of winning the division than winning a wild card spot. Remember, Philly and Atlanta are very inexperienced. The best players on Washington and Atlanta might be rookies - Soto (19) and Acuna (20) - fighting it out for ROY. Soto's got the better hitting stats so far, but Acuna's the better defender and base-runner.

[Ruzious]

Wow, their bullpen finds ugglier ways to lose each game. Allowing 5 runs in the last 2 innings after the rest of the team fought back to take the lead. Soto continues to impress. There's nothing wrong with the lineup. Doolittle's injury has been devestating.

[Dark Faze]

Rizzo's meltdown to ruin the bull pen is pretty unacceptable.

I'm going to go with Caps theory and suggest we move on from him. Nats are the Caps of Baseball. MVP caliber player(s), strong on paper, can't get it done--a rotation of coaches. McPhee gets the axe in a down year even though everyone knows he's a good GM. Caps hire their eventual Cup winning Coach in Trotz while promoting the new GM in the same off-season. We should look at a similar move here to bring in a new GM/Manager tandem.

[80sballboy]

I didn't mind getting rid of Kelley (terrible despite decent stats) and even Kintzler (got hit hard and still does with Cubs), but you had to replace them with better options than a guy who hasn't pitched in two years and whatever scraps you have in the minors.

Rizzo may be protecting his players and is right to an extent about the injuries. You can't lose your entire back end of the rotation and win consistently. He also added Herrera way before the trade deadline and he wasn't that good before his injury. It's a lost season. We can play the blame game on the manager or the GM but it's ultimately the injuries and the players like Gio, Harper, Roark, Stras' injury, Howie Kendrick's season-ending injury (massive loss), Zim missing first two months, Murphy missing first couple of months, etc. I would say burning out the back end guys like Madson and Kinztler early and the bad baserunning with lack of leadership is on Martinez.

[Ruzious]

I didn't mind getting rid of Kelley (terrible despite decent stats) and even Kintzler (got hit hard and still does with Cubs), but you had to replace them with better options than a guy who hasn't pitched in two years and whatever scraps you have in the minors.

Rizzo may be protecting his players and is right to an extent about the injuries. You can't lose your entire back end of the rotation and win consistently. He also added Herrera way before the trade deadline and he wasn't that good before his injury. It's a lost season. We can play the blame game on the manager or the GM but it's ultimately the injuries and the players like Gio, Harper, Roark, Stras' injury, Howie Kendrick's season-ending injury (massive loss), Zim missing first two months, Murphy missing first couple of months, etc. I would say burning out the back end guys like Madson and Kinztler early and the bad baserunning with lack of leadership is on Martinez.

Not sure I've seen a good deep veteran bullpen implode upon itself so dramatically and become this bad and so lacking in depth. I think they're starting Hellickson - who comes with a warning - Danger, do not use after 5 innings. He's really good for 4 or 5 innings, but with a limited bullpen... that's not likely going to end well. But in baseball, I've learned to expect the unexpected. Hmm, but if you expect it, then it's not unexpected. Just as I suspected.

[Dark Faze]

Fire Rizzo

[80sballboy]

Rizzo is not going anywhere. He just got an extension. Injuries were the main issue this year but I'm not going to let Rizzo off the hook for lack of depth in the minors in overall pitching. Let's be realistic and I don't have the numbers with me but:

SP
Strasburg pitched around 85 innings this season with a 3.90 ERA. Completely wasted year. Last season went 15-4 with a 2.75 ERA in 175 innings. He had 28 starts last season and 14 this year. So maybe he gets 5-6 more (not likely) so you've missed 14 starts of one of the premier pitchers in the NL, maybe 6-7 if he pitches in the last 5 weeks. That's a huge loss. Even Feddie might have helped if he was healthy because he was starting to come on.

*Howie Kendrick was a terrific acquisition last season (Dusty never played him in the playoffs) and hit .293 in 52 games after the trade from Philly. Hit .303 in 160 at-bats before tearing his Achilles in outfield. HUGE LOSS. He could have played outfield or 2B or 1B. Great pinch hitter. Will be back next season likely at 2B for Murphy.

*Murphy and Eaton were injured in the first half and when they returned, they couldn't run. They still can't run but both have hit well in the 2nd half of the season. Murphy has just 6 HRs and 29 RBIs in 205 ABs. Compare that to the last two years when he averaged 24 Hrs and 98.5 RBI. Eaton never played last season so him coming back didn't hurt or help and Soto has been better than Werth and about the same defensively. They appear to miss Werth's presence in the clubhouse-that's about it.

*Doolittle had 22 saves and a 1.45 ERA and hasn't pitched since July 6. Not going to say that the Herrera trade helped but losing a set-up man/closer that can throw 99 is never a good thing. Kintzler wasn't much but Davey did overuse him and Madson in April when he had no faith in guys like Solis, Gott, and Kelley in middle relief. Now Madson, Herrera and Doolittle are all out.

You could say that some teams overcome injuries-fine. But Nats had no Kendrick, Zim for the first couple of months. Strasburg, Murphy, a healthy Eaton, even Matt Adams missing a month in mid-June to a broken finger was huge because he was crushing the ball. He hasn't been the same since. They lost the entire back end of the bullpen for the second half. It took Ryan Zimmerman about half the season before he finally hit. Did Rizzo blow that by allowing him to skip spring training? I wondered about that at the time.

[Ruzious]

Rizzo's done a terrific job of managing the roster, but... I don't understand giving up at that point - not when they had 9 games left against the Phillies and a bunch against the Braves. Yes, the odds were very much against the Nats, but those are 2 greenhorn teams they're chasing, and anything could happen.

[80sballboy]

Rizzo's done a terrific job of managing the roster, but... I don't understand giving up at that point - not when they had 9 games left against the Phillies and a bunch against the Braves. Yes, the odds were very much against the Nats, but those are 2 greenhorn teams they're chasing, and anything could happen.

I'm fine with it. The team was stale. They should have done something before the trade deadline. Either sell or buy. Don't just get rid of Kintzler. But they didn't. Their starting pitching when you add guys like Gio, no clue what you're going to get from Stras and Hellickson/Millone, you are f-cked. Losing 2 of 3 to the Marlins at home was the final straw. Mark Lerner raised the white flag then and probably told Rizzo to save some pennies, while trying to add to minors.

[Ruzious]

Rizzo's done a terrific job of managing the roster, but... I don't understand giving up at that point - not when they had 9 games left against the Phillies and a bunch against the Braves. Yes, the odds were very much against the Nats, but those are 2 greenhorn teams they're chasing, and anything could happen.

I'm fine with it. The team was stale. They should have done something before the trade deadline. Either sell or buy. Don't just get rid of Kintzler. But they didn't. Their starting pitching when you add guys like Gio, no clue what you're going to get from Stras and Hellickson/Millone, you are f-cked. Losing 2 of 3 to the Marlins at home was the final straw. Mark Lerner raised the white flag then and probably told Rizzo to save some pennies, while trying to add to minors.

Yeah, I understand the point about either selling or buying, but he was really caught between a rock and a hard place. He probably needed to get a starter and a closer to significantly improve their chances, and that'd cost a lot, and they'd still likely lose. I don't think selling was a real option, because they still had a chance, and they still want to re-sign Harper. I'd have probably tried to at least trade for Gausman - considering how little Atlanta traded to get him. But finding a closer might have been harder. He might have been thinking that Doolittle would get healthy by now. Doolittle was so vital to them, and then their whole bullpen either got injured or imploded or both.

[80sballboy]

Rizzo's done a terrific job of managing the roster, but... I don't understand giving up at that point - not when they had 9 games left against the Phillies and a bunch against the Braves. Yes, the odds were very much against the Nats, but those are 2 greenhorn teams they're chasing, and anything could happen.

I'm fine with it. The team was stale. They should have done something before the trade deadline. Either sell or buy. Don't just get rid of Kintzler. But they didn't. Their starting pitching when you add guys like Gio, no clue what you're going to get from Stras and Hellickson/Millone, you are f-cked. Losing 2 of 3 to the Marlins at home was the final straw. Mark Lerner raised the white flag then and probably told Rizzo to save some pennies, while trying to add to minors.

Yeah, I understand the point about either selling or buying, but he was really caught between a rock and a hard place. He probably needed to get a starter and a closer to significantly improve their chances, and that'd cost a lot, and they'd still likely lose. I don't think selling was a real option, because they still had a chance, and they still want to re-sign Harper. I'd have probably tried to at least trade for Gausman - considering how little Atlanta traded to get him. But finding a closer might have been harder. He might have been thinking that Doolittle would get healthy by now. Doolittle was so vital to them, and then their whole bullpen either got injured or imploded or both.

Not saying get a closer. They already had one in Herrera and he got hurt after the trade deadline. I'm saying beef up the bullpen like the Yankees attempted to do with Britton. Or go for a 3rd or 4th starter. Sure, Gausman would have been a much better option.

[Ruzious]

I'm fine with it. The team was stale. They should have done something before the trade deadline. Either sell or buy. Don't just get rid of Kintzler. But they didn't. Their starting pitching when you add guys like Gio, no clue what you're going to get from Stras and Hellickson/Millone, you are f-cked. Losing 2 of 3 to the Marlins at home was the final straw. Mark Lerner raised the white flag then and probably told Rizzo to save some pennies, while trying to add to minors.

Yeah, I understand the point about either selling or buying, but he was really caught between a rock and a hard place. He probably needed to get a starter and a closer to significantly improve their chances, and that'd cost a lot, and they'd still likely lose. I don't think selling was a real option, because they still had a chance, and they still want to re-sign Harper. I'd have probably tried to at least trade for Gausman - considering how little Atlanta traded to get him. But finding a closer might have been harder. He might have been thinking that Doolittle would get healthy by now. Doolittle was so vital to them, and then their whole bullpen either got injured or imploded or both.

Not saying get a closer. They already had one in Herrera and he got hurt after the trade deadline. I'm saying beef up the bullpen like the Yankees attempted to do with Britton. Or go for a 3rd or 4th starter. Sure, Gausman would have been a much better option.

Well, Herrera wasn't very good when he was healthy with the Nats.

[80sballboy]

Yeah, I understand the point about either selling or buying, but he was really caught between a rock and a hard place. He probably needed to get a starter and a closer to significantly improve their chances, and that'd cost a lot, and they'd still likely lose. I don't think selling was a real option, because they still had a chance, and they still want to re-sign Harper. I'd have probably tried to at least trade for Gausman - considering how little Atlanta traded to get him. But finding a closer might have been harder. He might have been thinking that Doolittle would get healthy by now. Doolittle was so vital to them, and then their whole bullpen either got injured or imploded or both.

Not saying get a closer. They already had one in Herrera and he got hurt after the trade deadline. I'm saying beef up the bullpen like the Yankees attempted to do with Britton. Or go for a 3rd or 4th starter. Sure, Gausman would have been a much better option.

Well, Herrera wasn't very good when he was healthy with the Nats.

He was very good with the Royals as a set-up man and as a closer this year. I don't blame Rizzo for picking him up as insurance.

Somehow, the Nats won tonight despite Strasburg. Ah the excuses. He was tired. Velocity down. Blah. Blah. Blah. Maybe he should be the closer for the next four years of his lousy contract. Of course, he wouldn't be able to pitch in consecutive days. But they are still on life support at 7.5 games behind Braves and 6.0 games behind last wild card spot. Still a very long shot with that pitching staff. They play Philly six more times on the road and Atlanta three more times on the road. They basically have to go 7-3 against Atl/Philly and go about 9-3 against the Mets and Miami. Then 10-3 against the rest. 26-9 the rest of the way to get to 90 wins. That should enough to get WC/NL East. Maybe since they face St. Louis/Milwaukee as well.

Easy pickings.

[Ruzious]

Anyone catch the Nats game on tv - after Soto homered? Soto hit a massive bomb - probably 430 feet into the stands. He admired it for a few seconds before starting to run around the bases - nothing too bad, but ya don't want to wake up a team your chasing down the stretch. Once Soto sits down in the clubhouse, Adam Eaton puts his arms around Soto's kneck from behind - not in a threatening manor - more as a mentor moment. He gives Soto a long talk. The camera person did a great job of getting a view of Soto mouthing the words I'm sorry. He got the message from Eaton... I know you didn't mean anything, but Philly could take that the wrong way, and they might decide to throw at you... or one of your teammates, like me. We're sweeping them now - thanks mainly you to you, so there's no need to wake them up - that's the last thing we want to do. Eaton talked to him that way for several minutes - Soto never turning his head to look at Eaton.

It was just a really cool mentoring moment from the vet Adam Eaton to the phenom rookie Juan Soto.

And an inning or 2 later, Eaton completely sells out to make a flying diving catch in RF. That what leadership looks like fellas.

[Wizardspride]

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[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Soto’s production seems sustainable. He has a great eye, tremendous plate discipline and generates a ton of power without swinging out of his socks.

Fun to watch in an otherwise really dismal year for the team.

[Wizardspride]

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[Rafael122]

If there were like an extra 2 weeks left in the season you could make the argument that the Nats had a shot but it's too late. Atlanta and Philly would have to completely crumble.