Getting Excited About the Niners' OL

[NinerSickness]

I trashed Lynch for not drafting one of the many, great guard prospects in the 2018 draft, but the Niners may have been saved by a couple of freebies.

Garnett down close to 300 is playing like he belongs in this system. I know it's preseason, but he's showing that he can move.

Johnathan Cooper earned a starting job in Dallas, but he was never the pro-bowl-caliber player I thought he'd be as a Tar Heel. He hasn't gotten to show much because of the surgery, but I am hopeful he steals Tomlinson's job away from him. Cooper was built for the ZBS IMO.

And as "meh" as Tomlinson is, he's still not bad. He might even be able to be good if he works hard; he has the athleticism.

I wasn't worried about the other OL. Never liked Mike McGlinchey as a LT all that much, but he should be more than capable of holding down the RT jorb.

Jimmy was winning games even with a lot less at OL last year and Garcon on IR (and no Pettis). The offense might be ready to go! Defense? We'll see...

[Dodub]

Who are you and what did you do with Sickness?!

I agree with 99% of what you said. Congrats universe, you win!

[Pattersonca65]

I trashed Lynch for not drafting one of the many, great guard prospects in the 2018 draft, but the Niners may have been saved by a couple of freebies.

Garnett down close to 300 is playing like he belongs in this system. I know it's preseason, but he's showing that he can move.

Johnathan Cooper earned a starting job in Dallas, but he was never the pro-bowl-caliber player I thought he'd be as a Tar Heel. He hasn't gotten to show much because of the surgery, but I am hopeful he steals Tomlinson's job away from him. Cooper was built for the ZBS IMO.

And as "meh" as Tomlinson is, he's still not bad. He might even be able to be good if he works hard; he has the athleticism.

I wasn't worried about the other OL. Never liked Mike McGlinchey as a LT all that much, but he should be more than capable of holding down the RT jorb.

Jimmy was winning games even with a lot less at OL last year and Garcon on IR (and no Pettis). The offense might be ready to go! Defense? We'll see...

From what I've read Tomlinson is set at left guard and Cooper and Garnett along with Person are competing for the right guard position.

[CrimsonCrew]

The defense is frustrating, because we're seeing some talented young players emerge who could be impact guys going forward. But without an outside pass rush, I don't know how much difference it will ultimately make. We haven't seen all that much of Thomas and Buckner yet, and Buckner has been pushing the pocket when he's been on the field, but Marsh and Attaochu aren't going to get it done. If we had that first pick in 2017 and took Garrett, I think our D would be legit (granted we really need Sherman to get back to form). I hope that Thomas can improve from last year, but even if he makes a real jump, I question the impact he will make.

[CrimsonCrew]

Echo the sentiment that it was great to see Garnett playing hard and apparently having success. It's just one game, but maybe he's finally getting the message. It would be huge for us if he can step up and play well. I'm very curious to see Cooper in this scheme, but that may still be a while coming.

[Pattersonca65]

The defense is frustrating, because we're seeing some talented young players emerge who could be impact guys going forward. But without an outside pass rush, I don't know how much difference it will ultimately make. We haven't seen all that much of Thomas and Buckner yet, and Buckner has been pushing the pocket when he's been on the field, but Marsh and Attaochu aren't going to get it done. If we had that first pick in 2017 and took Garrett, I think our D would be legit (granted we really need Sherman to get back to form). I hope that Thomas can improve from last year, but even if he makes a real jump, I question the impact he will make.

I rewatched the game last night. Attachu was invisible in that game going against backup players. Even Tim Ryan commented on it. I hope Solomon Thomas does something. I wouldn't mind seeing Elvis Dumerill come back. He is still probably better than most of what we have.

[ChrisPozz]

The defense is frustrating, because we're seeing some talented young players emerge who could be impact guys going forward. But without an outside pass rush, I don't know how much difference it will ultimately make. We haven't seen all that much of Thomas and Buckner yet, and Buckner has been pushing the pocket when he's been on the field, but Marsh and Attaochu aren't going to get it done. If we had that first pick in 2017 and took Garrett, I think our D would be legit (granted we really need Sherman to get back to form). I hope that Thomas can improve from last year, but even if he makes a real jump, I question the impact he will make.

I rewatched the game last night. Attachu was invisible in that game going against backup players. Even Tim Ryan commented on it. I hope Solomon Thomas does something. I wouldn't mind seeing Elvis Dumerill come back. He is still probably better than most of what we have.

I'm all for seeing a Dumervil signing again given the likeliest and most realistic options. Could someone come available here in the next few weeks once cuts happen that I would rather have than Dumervil given the age factor? Sure. But I wasn't overly in favor of Dumervil being let go of in the first place even with the understanding of going with a youth movement. I've always had a soft spot for Dumervil dating way, way back. Physical make up has always been against what I typically like but he's an outlier with that for me. He's a special dude in a lot of ways and I wouldn't be against having to turn to that again to try and squeeze one last hurrah out of him.

[NinerSickness]

From what I've read Tomlinson is set at left guard and Cooper and Garnett along with Person are competing for the right guard position.

I have to think Cooper is significantly better than Tomlinson (assuming he's healthy). Garnett is a q. mark.

Tomlinson is "meh" at best IMO. Hope I'm wrong.

[Jikkle]

So far it's looking like a solid unit especially given the state the unit was at the end of last season.

The biggest issue so far is the running game but that seems something that's more to do with execution and just getting the timing down than it being a deficiency of talent which means it's fixable.

I'm just hoping Garnett or Cooper can establish themselves at RG. Tomlinson isn't amazing but I expect him to be better off this season and he's at least solid and should do better if Richburg proves to be an upgrade over Kilgore.

[Pattersonca65]

From what I've read Tomlinson is set at left guard and Cooper and Garnett along with Person are competing for the right guard position.

I have to think Cooper is significantly better than Tomlinson (assuming he's healthy). Garnett is a q. mark.

Tomlinson is "meh" at best IMO. Hope I'm wrong.

You might be right about Tomlinson. So far he is MEH. They all see something in him. I don't think Cooper is healthy yet so it is hard to judge him. I heard he was still favoring the injured foot in practice.

[Bald Bull]

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[I_am_1z]

Guys we are officially the Lions. We're not going to have a good running game, so I think by midseason we begin throwing the air out of the ball (+35 times a game) to manufacture an offense. Defensively, we're a crapshoot. Our DL has potential to dominate but will the play from our secondary and LBs be better than just serviceable?

[CrimsonCrew]

Guys we are officially the Lions. We're not going to have a good running game, so I think by midseason we begin throwing the air out of the ball (+35 times a game) to manufacture an offense. Defensively, we're a crapshoot. Our DL has potential to dominate but will the play from our secondary and LBs be better than just serviceable?

I have concerns about the running game, but Shanahan is arguably better at scheming the run game than the passing game. Let's see what happens once the real season begins. In terms of the D, the LBs should be at least sound once Foster gets back, and maybe more than that. Warner looks promising, and as much as I hated the Smith signing (who in the world were we bidding against???), he should be a pretty good fit for our scheme. DBs are going to come down largely to Sherman. If he's right, the defensive backfield could actually be a strength. There will be some growing pains, especially with Witherspoon and Colbert, but it's a solid group if we can generate any sort of pass rush at all.

[NinerSickness]

Guys we are officially the Lions. We're not going to have a good running game, so I think by midseason we begin throwing the air out of the ball (+35 times a game) to manufacture an offense. Defensively, we're a crapshoot. Our DL has potential to dominate but will the play from our secondary and LBs be better than just serviceable?

This isn't the Niners' year. Before they can compete for a SB, they seriously need:

1. A dominant, pass-rusher LEO
2. An upgrade at RB
3. Either Cooper or Tomlinson (plus Garnett) to improve from last season on the interiour OL
4. At least 1 starting LB (SAM w/ some pass-rush ability)

...And possibly an upgrade over Earl Mitchell at NT.

As of last year, the Lions would've been an improvement. I'm not looking for a SB this year. The biggest things I want to see from 2018 are:

1. Warner taking the starting WILL spot
2. Cooper taking the LG spot
3. Armstead showing he can at least be worth keeping in a rotation
4. DJ Jones emerging as a starting-caliber player or possibly a great player (which would be a gimme).

The rest will work itself out IMO.

[ChrisPozz]

Guys we are officially the Lions. We're not going to have a good running game, so I think by midseason we begin throwing the air out of the ball (+35 times a game) to manufacture an offense. Defensively, we're a crapshoot. Our DL has potential to dominate but will the play from our secondary and LBs be better than just serviceable?

This isn't the Niners' year. Before they can compete for a SB, they seriously need:

1. A dominant, pass-rusher LEO
2. An upgrade at RB
3. Either Cooper or Tomlinson (plus Garnett) to improve from last season on the interiour OL
4. At least 1 starting LB (SAM w/ some pass-rush ability)

...And possibly an upgrade over Earl Mitchell at NT.

As of last year, the Lions would've been an improvement. I'm not looking for a SB this year. The biggest things I want to see from 2018 are:

1. Warner taking the starting WILL spot
2. Cooper taking the LG spot
3. Armstead showing he can at least be worth keeping in a rotation
4. DJ Jones emerging as a starting-caliber player or possibly a great player (which would be a gimme).

The rest will work itself out IMO.

The continued development of Ahkello - good or bad - is a big question mark for me for the season. I think he's capped somewhat by this coaching staff like almost every single player on this roster but the lows CAN'T be as low as they were last season for him. I'd love to see more consistency and more highs but above those two I'm hoping the lows aren't as low for him. If by the end of the year he looks lost it'll be some dark days going into the offseason at that spot because I don't think Jimmie is for long with this coaching staff in this system and he's one of the salvageable pieces on the back end I'd like to have in place for whoever the next regime is. Obviously Jimmie has to stay healthy first or none of that matters.

I'm somewhat similar with you on Armstead. Just be MINIMALLY valuable. Anything else is gravy. (Turns out I might have had his floor a little wrong with my "he's got out of the league early" shtick, but we'll see).

Solomon's development in some ways is a focal point for the year. He's capped by this staff as well but the lows can NOT be as low as they've been. I'm probably a hair higher on the highs with him than many (while still agreeing that he was not good value where they took him) but the lows have got to be better.

Along with similar thoughts on DJ Jones, it would be nice if Jullian Taylor could provide something earlier than expected, but we'll see how much actual action he earns or whether it's crickets from him for a while longer.

Offensive line is still a disaster for me. System just makes it worse. I'm about as down on that unit as anybody you'll find.

I want to see what Pita can do this year if he gets his shot. How much developing has he done?

How right or wrong will I be about Reuben Foster by the end of the year? To repeat, if the immaturity issues doesn't get him will his body fail him and will that be somewhat answered by the end of this year? Emotionally, I've learned to not even count on him at all so I don't really see him as factoring in to the excitement of the defense.

One of the biggest things will be how fast can they accelerate the McKinnon-Breida experience. I don't want either around in my stable of backs. The faster they move on from that, the better for my health. RB is one of my biggest problems with the Kyle Shanahan experience, though, so I don't know how much better it'll ever be as long as he's around.

Similar feelings from George Kittle. Hope they get all the answers they need to so we can move on from that experience. I don't think he's a mid level starting option. The faster they find that out - if I'm right - the happier I'll be. He HAS to stay healthy so we don't prolong that any longer than it needs to be.

I wasn't going to get this detailed and cover as many guys as I did but I guess I was due for an emotional rant. Oops.

[NinerSickness]

Offensive line is still a disaster for me. System just makes it worse. I'm about as down on that unit as anybody you'll find.

Why is that?

[I_am_1z]

Offensive line is still a disaster for me. System just makes it worse. I'm about as down on that unit as anybody you'll find.

Why is that?

Now imo is was stupid of us to let go of Trent Brown to draft a RT in the first round. If it were Kolton Miller who has the potential to become a franchise LT, I'd like the pick but McGlinchey didn't make us better or worse than Brown.

At center we're lightyears better. At guard we're either the same or worse than last year.

[NinerSickness]

Now imo is was stupid of us to let go of Trent Brown to draft a RT in the first round.

I agree it was stupid to take a RT at 9. They should've taken Josh Rosen or traded down; now a division rival has a franchise QB. I would've been just as unhappy about Kolton Miller.

Trading Trent Brown was necessary. You can't ask that guy to play in the ZBS.

[ChrisPozz]

Offensive line is still a disaster for me. System just makes it worse. I'm about as down on that unit as anybody you'll find.

Why is that?

Joe Staley
Mike McGlinchey
Weston Richburg
Jonathan Cooper
Laken Tomlinson


There's 5 guys on the line that aren't solo disasters. The rest can go away and it won't hurt an iota.

Joe Staley. Was utterly terribly, MASSIVELY wrong about him when he was drafted. I thought he was going to be a turnstile when they drafted him. Have I ever loved him? Hmm, maybe for two years under Roman and company I was close to that but other than that have only been "in like" with him. Obviously you could do WAY worse than a 34-year old Staley (birthday is today) but time is ticking on that spot.

McGlinchey was one of the cleanest prospects in the draft with some of the best movement skills for a tackle which I really liked but was not love with his ceiling for a guy that was being talked about where he was being talked about. He wasn't good value. If he hits on the ceiling I see for him he can be a solid starter for you with the right system around him but I don't ever see a massive return on him - RT or LT. He's not necessarily the heir apparent for Staley in my mind either. As a coach I'd have to get my teaching on with him to see before that's answered in my mind.

Richburg I LOVED coming out of the draft but it's unlikely he'll ever hit what I thought his ceiling would be. That's fine. I might have been TOO high on him to start with. I don't LOVE him with Shanahan. He's in the maybe category for a guy that you can holdover and be fine with for the next regime.

Then it gets much worse.

Jonathan Cooper is a guy I was WAY higher on coming out of the draft than I have been of late. I got his ceiling wrong and maybe his floor a little bit, too. They could have done way worse with that money so I'm not upset there but I don't see Cooper realizing whatever his realistic ceiling is now in this system with this staff. He's another "maybe" category guy as to whether or not he would be valuable for another regime if I got my pick.

Laken Tomlinson is another guy similar to Cooper in the sense that I really, really liked coming into the NFL but probably got his ceiling wrong on. Unlike Cooper, I still need a bit more convincing with ANOTHER staff other than Shanahan before I'm entirely convinced I was real wrong on him. I don't see him hitting it off with Shanahan either and I think he's not for long on this team. One more guy that can hang on to "maybe" status with another regime if he makes it long enough (he probably won't).

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Beyond that, I wouldn't have to keep a single name left on the roster for another look see. There are no other answers. I'm not convinced a single one of them could be a BACKUP for me in the league if I got my way for a structure. That's hard to find in the NFL for a roster. Usually I can pick a few other guys out and give them a "maybe backup" tag.

Will I inevitably get some of this wrong? Yeah, probably. That might make it at least a tick more promising than what I'm giving it but it wouldn't stun me if Joe hits the wall quickly, if McGlinchey isn't quite as clean of a prospect as I'm thinking, and/or if Richburg isn't a safe/solid starter under Shanahan.

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My system line is just a personal preference thing. I've never been in love with what KYLE Shanahan football looks like on the offensive line, not to mention the problem I have with him at the running back spot a lot of the time, too. Heck, I haven't been in like with what a lot of Kyle Shanahan OL play looks like.

Can I get over some of it? Maybe parts of it. Can the 49ers have a head coach that plays the game differently than my personal preferences and it still be a successful brand of football? Obviously. I've disagreed with a lot of brands of football that have worked out for many other teams in the past. I just see football much differently than they do on many different things.

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Maybe there are other people who don't even like 5 OL on the team but I have yet to find a person that follows the team who is more down on that unit than me. Hopefully all that explained why.

[NinerSickness]

Beyond that, I wouldn't have to keep a single name left on the roster for another look see.

I'm ok with that because I'm looking to 2019. They can pick up some depth.

Niners should probably trade Joe Staley. Problem is I don't like 69 at LT at all. Should've drafted Josh Rosen. They would've been able to trade him for a king's ransom.

Maybe the Raiders would take Staley in a package for Khalil.

It's been a while since I proposed a crazy trade deal, so there ya go.