Political Roundtable Part XXII

[gtn130]

No. There isn't ample evidence. And the indictment against the Russians was very clear in stating that there is no allegation than any U.S. citizens were involved in the crime.

I said ample reason to believe. We're talking about the run-up to an investigation not an indictment. There does not need to be smoking gun evidence to launch an investigation. You're arguing in bad faith.

LOL. Do you think these are magic words or something?

You haven't made a good faith argument since joining this board. You can barely make a post with leveling a personal insult on someone.

When I say you're arguing in bad faith, what I mean is you're being dishonest - either with yourself or with the people reading your posts. I troll people occasionally, but I'm never trying to deceive anyone or make arguments I don't actually believe myself.

Like, you have the intellectual capacity to realize that you don't need smoking gun evidence to launch an investigation, yet here we are.

[gtn130]

also notice how Nate totally dodged the argument with his pearl-clutching

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

Ya know I gotta say he makes a fair point here.

[barelyawake]

I love how the conservatives keep arguing each leaf, while trying to pretend the forest doesn’t exist. They scream “there is no evidence” during an investigation, as if they have seen the facts of the case. They scream one thing Trump said isn’t racist, as if Trump didn’t put c for colored on rental applications; as if his father wasn’t in the KKK; as if he didn’t call Nazis good people; as if he hasn’t been called out for using the n-word; as if he didn’t invent birtherism; as if he didn’t hire Steve Bannon to fan an Arian firestorm. They keep laser focused on spinning each lie, as if the preseident doesn’t lie seven times a day (things that are provably untrue).

Global warming isn’t a hoax. Wealth inequality is killing us. Robots are only going to make that gap worse. Tax cuts for the rich doubly so, when that bill comes. Destroying our alliance with the European Union (to help Trump cozy up to a dicatator like Putin, for his own personal gain) is treason.

Okay. So because you disagree with Trump's policies, it's perfectly okay to investigate him in perpetuity throughout his presidency in the hopes of finding something impeachable. That's essentially what you are saying.

Any of you on the right who dare call yourselves Christians ought to be publically shamed. You’re as much like Christ as the Catholic Church. Christ didn’t tote guns; didn’t grab women by the pussy and purposefully spy on teenage girls changing; didn’t lie with every breath; didn’t tell the sick to work harder or die; didn’t build a wall to keep out the poor from working for a living, and he certainly believed that the rich were going to Hell. It’s your book. Do us all a favor and follow your own rules, rather than pretending the rules match your greedy, hateful, petty egos and wants.

Welcome to the new rules. We're not letting your Alinksy tactics work anymore. Democrats can lie, cheat, steal, sexually harass and rape and they're not held accountable; but they immediately start talking about Jesus when our side does the same thing. Screw that. We're not going to let Trump's infidelities prevent us from implementing our agenda. Your cynical appeal to our morality isn't going to work anymore. Bend over and take it.

Notice how at no time did you attempt to pretend any of the basic principles of your party have anything to with Christ. They don’t. You’re not a Christian. And hey, that’s fine I’m not either. But, don’t show up to church and pretend you are teaching the next generation some golden rules. You ain’t. You’re doing the exact opposite of what Christ preached, and annoiting yourself as a good Christian. It’s nonsense. It’s blasphemous. It’s insanity. And I hope you’re not right about there being a God, because I’d hate to see you have to confront them and watch you try all this bull you justify to yourself on them.

Trump is your moral leader. Haha. We’re so imbued with the Christian spirit, we want teachers to carry guns and kill off the sick. So Christlike, we want to send refugees back to be raped and murdered. So filled with the joy of faith, we want to praise a dictator who kills journalists and listen to soulless broadcasters who could care less if corporations are destroying the planet (as long as they make a buck in the meantime).

Nate, I remember once you said it would be cheaper to move all the coastal cities inland than to do what is necessary to curb global warming. Tell those firefighters in California that. Or fishermen in Florida. Keep adding up how much it will cost us to keep denying global warming, as wars begin over water (and Nestle claims rainwater isn’t a right), while China keeps cornering the market on green energy.

Keep thinking Rush Limbaugh is a good man.

[Zonkerbl]

I love how the conservatives keep arguing each leaf, while trying to pretend the forest doesn’t exist. They scream “there is no evidence” during an investigation, as if they have seen the facts of the case. They scream one thing Trump said isn’t racist, as if Trump didn’t put c for colored on rental applications; as if his father wasn’t in the KKK; as if he didn’t call Nazis good people; as if he hasn’t been called out for using the n-word; as if he didn’t invent birtherism; as if he didn’t hire Steve Bannon to fan an Arian firestorm. They keep laser focused on spinning each lie, as if the preseident doesn’t lie seven times a day (things that are provably untrue).

Global warming isn’t a hoax. Wealth inequality is killing us. Robots are only going to make that gap worse. Tax cuts for the rich doubly so, when that bill comes. Destroying our alliance with the European Union (to help Trump cozy up to a dicatator like Putin, for his own personal gain) is treason.

Okay. So because you disagree with Trump's policies, it's perfectly okay to investigate him in perpetuity throughout his presidency in the hopes of finding something impeachable. That's essentially what you are saying.

Any of you on the right who dare call yourselves Christians ought to be publically shamed. You’re as much like Christ as the Catholic Church. Christ didn’t tote guns; didn’t grab women by the pussy and purposefully spy on teenage girls changing; didn’t lie with every breath; didn’t tell the sick to work harder or die; didn’t build a wall to keep out the poor from working for a living, and he certainly believed that the rich were going to Hell. It’s your book. Do us all a favor and follow your own rules, rather than pretending the rules match your greedy, hateful, petty egos and wants.

Welcome to the new rules. We're not letting your Alinksy tactics work anymore. Democrats can lie, cheat, steal, sexually harass and rape and they're not held accountable; but they immediately start talking about Jesus when our side does the same thing. Screw that. We're not going to let Trump's infidelities prevent us from implementing our agenda. Your cynical appeal to our morality isn't going to work anymore. Bend over and take it.

You roaring hypocrite, that is *exactly* what you know-nothings did with Hillary. Why should one set of rules apply to Dems and another apply to Republicans?

[Zonkerbl]

And Obama's birth certificate. And Bill Clinton for that matter. Persecuting political opponents in perpetuity is the GOP's primary business model.

[verbal8]

You roaring hypocrite, that is *exactly* what you know-nothings did with Hillary. Why should one set of rules apply to Dems and another apply to Republicans?

I saw a panelist on CNN mention what the conservative/Trump concept of order is all about.

It has nothing to do with order in the legal or moral sense. It has everything to do with the traditional hierarchies such as:
Male over Female
White over non-White
Christian over other Religions
Rich over Poor

According to this hierarchy, basically Trump is always in the right. Other than avoiding blame, the lies that Trump tells are to maintain this order.

Obama was a wake-up call to those who thought the hierarchy was safe. Clinton was another threat, who in some ways it may have been easier to subtly undermine.

[verbal8]

And Obama's birth certificate. And Bill Clinton for that matter. Persecuting political opponents in perpetuity is the GOP's primary business model.

Don't forget disenfranchising voters. Or "Lock her Up" for Hillary Clinton.

[Zonkerbl]

You roaring hypocrite, that is *exactly* what you know-nothings did with Hillary. Why should one set of rules apply to Dems and another apply to Republicans?

I saw a panelist on CNN mention what the conservative/Trump concept of order is all about.

It has nothing to do with order in the legal or moral sense. It has everything to do with the traditional hierarchies such as:
Male over Female
White over non-White
Christian over other Religions
Rich over Poor

According to this hierarchy, basically Trump is always in the right. Other than avoiding blame, the lies that Trump tells are to maintain this order.

Obama was a wake-up call to those who thought the hierarchy was safe. Clinton was another threat, who in some ways it may have been easier to subtly undermine.

F@#$ the hierarchy.

[verbal8]

You roaring hypocrite, that is *exactly* what you know-nothings did with Hillary. Why should one set of rules apply to Dems and another apply to Republicans?

I saw a panelist on CNN mention what the conservative/Trump concept of order is all about.

It has nothing to do with order in the legal or moral sense. It has everything to do with the traditional hierarchies such as:
Male over Female
White over non-White
Christian over other Religions
Rich over Poor

According to this hierarchy, basically Trump is always in the right. Other than avoiding blame, the lies that Trump tells are to maintain this order.

Obama was a wake-up call to those who thought the hierarchy was safe. Clinton was another threat, who in some ways it may have been easier to subtly undermine.

F@#$ the hierarchy.

I agree 100%. It just finally made the ridiculous inconsistencies of many on the right, made sense. It isn't moral worthiness that leads Jerry Falwell to prefer Trump over Obama or Hilary Clinton.

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[nate33]

I love how the conservatives keep arguing each leaf, while trying to pretend the forest doesn’t exist. They scream “there is no evidence” during an investigation, as if they have seen the facts of the case. They scream one thing Trump said isn’t racist, as if Trump didn’t put c for colored on rental applications; as if his father wasn’t in the KKK; as if he didn’t call Nazis good people; as if he hasn’t been called out for using the n-word; as if he didn’t invent birtherism; as if he didn’t hire Steve Bannon to fan an Arian firestorm. They keep laser focused on spinning each lie, as if the preseident doesn’t lie seven times a day (things that are provably untrue).

Global warming isn’t a hoax. Wealth inequality is killing us. Robots are only going to make that gap worse. Tax cuts for the rich doubly so, when that bill comes. Destroying our alliance with the European Union (to help Trump cozy up to a dicatator like Putin, for his own personal gain) is treason.

Okay. So because you disagree with Trump's policies, it's perfectly okay to investigate him in perpetuity throughout his presidency in the hopes of finding something impeachable. That's essentially what you are saying.

Any of you on the right who dare call yourselves Christians ought to be publically shamed. You’re as much like Christ as the Catholic Church. Christ didn’t tote guns; didn’t grab women by the pussy and purposefully spy on teenage girls changing; didn’t lie with every breath; didn’t tell the sick to work harder or die; didn’t build a wall to keep out the poor from working for a living, and he certainly believed that the rich were going to Hell. It’s your book. Do us all a favor and follow your own rules, rather than pretending the rules match your greedy, hateful, petty egos and wants.

Welcome to the new rules. We're not letting your Alinksy tactics work anymore. Democrats can lie, cheat, steal, sexually harass and rape and they're not held accountable; but they immediately start talking about Jesus when our side does the same thing. Screw that. We're not going to let Trump's infidelities prevent us from implementing our agenda. Your cynical appeal to our morality isn't going to work anymore. Bend over and take it.

You roaring hypocrite, that is *exactly* what you know-nothings did with Hillary. Why should one set of rules apply to Dems and another apply to Republicans?

Fine. I'm not denying that that's what Republicans might do with Clinton. But at least I wouldn't be appealing to Christian morality when telling the Democrats to stand down and let it happen.

[nate33]

You roaring hypocrite, that is *exactly* what you know-nothings did with Hillary. Why should one set of rules apply to Dems and another apply to Republicans?

I saw a panelist on CNN mention what the conservative/Trump concept of order is all about.

It has nothing to do with order in the legal or moral sense. It has everything to do with the traditional hierarchies such as:
Male over Female
White over non-White
Christian over other Religions
Rich over Poor

According to this hierarchy, basically Trump is always in the right. Other than avoiding blame, the lies that Trump tells are to maintain this order.

Obama was a wake-up call to those who thought the hierarchy was safe. Clinton was another threat, who in some ways it may have been easier to subtly undermine.

No. It's Americans over non-Americans. That's the only hierarchy that Trumpism explicitly promotes. The rest of the stuff is nonsense. There is no evidence whatsoever to back any of it up. It's a CNN fever dream in which they're on the side of morality and every Republican is a Nazi.

[Ruzious]

And can we stop with the myth that the FBI investigations have anything to do the Democratic party. They've been run by the FBI - and the investigations have been mostly led by Republicans. The people that Trump has fired and/or forced out have been mostly Republicans. All this martyrdom stuff from the WH is moldy stinking feces-laden cock-roach infested garbage.

[pancakes3]

The heart of the investigation is to figure out what went on at the Russian meeting at Trump Tower, if there were other meetings between the Campaign and Russia, if there were other communications with Russians, etc. because the figurative smoking gun in this case is that in October 2016, Trump shifted course on his campaigning to specifically focus on states where Hilary decided to forego (without knowledge that Hilary was skipping stops) in an act of coincidence so large that it calls into question whether those moves were motivated by information gathered via hacked emails.

That's a new and absurd theory. Are you serious? You think that Trump changed campaign tactics because of information they hacked out of the DNC server? Isn't it much easier to believe that Trump's internal polling showed that Michigan was in play? And Republicans always spend time in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

this is not the takeaway i intended for my post, bro.

it *is* possible that Trump made changes to his campaign tactics based on internal polling, or gut instinct, or whatever. however, the investigation is not based on inferences. the point is to let the investigation play out.

trump is not the primary enemy of this investigation, Russia is. if there is a viable possibility of collusion, enough that Mueller was tasked, then the investigation is justified. if nothing else, it'll put Russia on notice that shenanigans like this won't be tolerated. it'll put future candidates that if you're going to take meetings with foreign nationals, do your due diligence and keep things above board. don't lie.

it's not a crime to be under investigation, and POTUS needs to not take it personally. he's making enemies out of allies with his petulance. i'm not sure if it's chicken/egg but his base is taking it personally too. why is this such an incendiary position?

[JWizmentality]

You roaring hypocrite, that is *exactly* what you know-nothings did with Hillary. Why should one set of rules apply to Dems and another apply to Republicans?

I saw a panelist on CNN mention what the conservative/Trump concept of order is all about.

It has nothing to do with order in the legal or moral sense. It has everything to do with the traditional hierarchies such as:
Male over Female
White over non-White
Christian over other Religions
Rich over Poor

According to this hierarchy, basically Trump is always in the right. Other than avoiding blame, the lies that Trump tells are to maintain this order.

Obama was a wake-up call to those who thought the hierarchy was safe. Clinton was another threat, who in some ways it may have been easier to subtly undermine.

No. It's Americans over non-Americans. That's the only hierarchy that Trumpism explicitly promotes. The rest of the stuff is nonsense. There is no evidence whatsoever to back any of it up. It's a CNN fever dream in which they're on the side of morality and every Republican is a Nazi.

Not every Republican is a Nazi but every Nazi sure as hell is a Republican.

Lot of pedophiles too. Go figure.

Why do you want to distance yourselves from Nazis anyway? I hear they're very fine people.

[stilldropin20]

you know. two years later...the real issue regarding 2016 comes down Bernie bro's feeling railroaded by super delegates and closed primaries in some states.

Bernie was inspiring to many.

Trump was too.

HRC not so much, but women wanted the first female president.


But Democratic closed primaries in some states and super delegates already decalring for HRC before the primaries even began made the nomination feel like an unfair process. People were butthurt. And all poll had Bernie convincingly defeating trump where it was a lot closer for HRC.

In the end, all the liberals that are so butthurt have no one to blame but their leader, Obama, the DNC itself, and HRC for being so uninspiring. perfect storm for a perfect upset.

on the other hand Trump was the perfect candidate. inspiring. and won. against all odds. minimal campaign funding for the primaries. total grassroots based on campaign rallies and just being donald trump.

And being Donald trump, I do indeed mean saying the rediculous things he said. Some of which were extremely controversial. But by saying these things people wanted to watch. because people wanted to watch CNN was forced to play his campaign rallies or lose viewership to fox.

If it were a basketball team and a basketball, this is like rookie magic johnson winning in his rookie the title but without kareem. it be like this years chicago bulls beating everyone and then beating GSW in 4 or 5 games (by 1-2 points each game) solely behind strong play from rookie wendell carter.

What trump did was amazing.

And the DNC shot itself in the foot. <--and they might have even cheated too. They kinda rigged their own primaries and then they kinda illegally spied on trump. Once trump won they used the info from illegal surveilance plus a cooked up phony russian dossier to continue to investigate him. <--Because They just couldn't understand how he won.

And here we are...using the DOJ to persecute political opponents. (and maybe because they thought trump would seriously attempt to lock up HRC??? Seriously...that may be why...and HRC and WJC promised every single existing DOJ person that they would take everyone down with them. <--no unheard of...because this deep state is solely motivated to take down Trump right now...and its his own DOJ. Its suppose to be people he can trust. He won the election fair and square. He is suppose to get appointees he trusts to help him implement his political ideology. That's how it is suppose to work.

The american people voted for trump and they want to see President trump, the leader of the free world, be able to implement his agenda without the weight of an investigation hanging over his head robbing him of political capital. This investigation is robbing the 307 electoral voters of their duly elected president to be able to operate in a normal polirtical environment. And the damn thing was already in play before he was ever sworn in!!!!!! The investigation was ongoing.

Lindsey graham: "every president deserves an attorney general that they have confidence in." And they do!! they really do.


Imagine for a second if Jim Jordan was the attorney general for Obama. Obama would have been completely ineffective.

And all this is doing is making trumpsters like me very frustrated. I literally cant wait until the shoe is on the other foot.

I still recall adam schiff, every single day on CNN for 12 months straight...that there was russian collusion. every single day. Then John Brennen would do the same. And none of it was true. It was just lies. lies. lies. lies. All because a rookie out of nowhere came in and beat the establishment in an unprecedented upset for the ages. This is the greatest upset of fricking time!!

Donald trumps base is behind him now more than ever. we are not going anywhere. I've seen nothing to say this "investigation" is nothing less than a witch hunt and gestapo type police state tactics. disgusting. its fake. its phony. its all lies. Schiff lied. Steele lied. The DOJ lied to the FISA court. brennen lied. CNN lied and lies every single day. All to take down a duly elected president just because they can (if they can get his base to lose interest).<--which we wont.

Sorry libs, your lies dont work. Your faux guilt doesn't work. Your complete sack of bullcrap is NOT working!

[payitforward]

It's not gonna happen people. Frankly, I'm amazed at just how clean Trump really is.

In your opinion, how would Trump act if he was guilty?

Depends on what he is guilty of.

If he was guilty of collaborating with the Russians, I would have expected him to shut down the SC investigation months ago and risk impeachment while Republicans have a firm control on Congress. I also would have expected him to be more adversarial to Putin at the press conference.

You don't know your man. He doubles down on every lie.

I don't know what your "agenda" is, Nate. But I don't understand how anyone can support a person of such utterly low morals in every way.

America was great before a historically unique concatenation of singularities allowed him to get into office. America will be great again when he's just a nasty memory.