OT: Twitter Thread on 3 Decades of Russian & Mafia Relationships with Trump

[Clyde_Style]

And torture works on black sites to get accurate information from enemies of the state.

If you fight crime by going after Russian collusion and some how end up prosecuting a bunch of unrelated crimes while squeezing desperate informants for information that may or may not be accurate then the system needs changing. Fast.

The last thing democracy needs is a gestapo like agency that can destroy people’s lives and operates independently without elected officials.

The FBI has always been a **** show. Since J Edgar. **** the police.

Perhaps you don't understand how judges had to approve warrants. The judges are a check and balance.

Wrong agency though. Mueller is working inside the DOJ now which is not the same thing as running the FBI. He has a boss called Rod Rosenstein. Jeff Sessions, the head of the DOJ, just came out and said he will not interfere with justice.

You can rage about your favorite person being unfairly treated all you want, but nothing you're saying indicates you have any interest in actual justice being rendered. You just don't want your guy to get popped.

That has nothing to do with you having higher principles and being interested in freedom. If you were so interested in freedom, you'd want this kind of corruption exposed and brought to justice.

Nothing changes the facts that already multiple witnesses are going to testify in court Trump committed treason.

If you actually cared about justice, you'd be against a president committing treason.

So it is a simple question:

Will you state that you will support Trump even with irrefutable proof that he committed treason?

And, no, you don't get to qualify that by saying you would if the methods of investigation were legit, because Trump has implicated himself every step of the way. Only a bonehead investigator would have a hard time proving Trump's guilt. No malfeasance is required to pursue this case.

And your use of historical terms is also very confused.

The Gestapo did not function with any due process. There were no checks and balances to hold the gestapo accountable. Calling Mueller the Gestapo is laughable. Mueller has demonstrated he will proceed in a non-partisan fashion and has already referred Democrats for possible prosecution. Does the name Podesta mean anything to you? Yeah, well he's in trouble too.

As far as your recommendations that defendants not be squeezed by prosecutors, that's just silly. You received about ten responses that threw that misguided complaint back in your face. Why don't you reply to each of those too and see where that gets you? You clearly don't know what you're talking about and how our legal system functions. You're pretending this is not the way it should be done. You're living in a fairytale if you actually believe that.

not going to debate a zealot, it’s fruitless.

Aw

Let us know when you're ready to say you are against treason

[Clyde_Style]

Meanwhile, back to reality

Manhattan DA looking at criminal charges against Trump Organization

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/politics/nyt-manhattan-da-trump-organization/index.html

This is snowballing superfast. Feds, State, now NYC

[Clyde_Style]

New Immunity Deal for Andrew Miller who was an assistant to Roger Stone. Guy was held in contempt of court and fought testifying vigorously so he has something Mueller wants and he got it.

Stone and Assange are in the batter's box

[Clyde_Style]

Trump Organization CFO, Allen Weisselberg, granted Immunity In Cohen Investigation. This guy knows where all the bodies are buried.

This is what happens when your way of operating your business for basically your entire life is by screwing people over and showing zero concern for ethics, along with throwing people under the bus multiple times over the years. All these insiders like Cohen and Weisselberg, Pecker etc know what a venal, vindictive and selfish pr*ck Trump is and know that he'd either do nothing to save them, or actually actively try to screw them to save himself.

That and they are aware of Trump's misdeeds and participated in them and realize they'll be going to jail for a looonnnnggggg time if they don't cooperate.

This article is precisely about Trump's unilateral version of loyalty. Quick read, very relevant to his current situation with Cohen now.

‘He’s Unraveling’: Why Cohen’s Betrayal Terrifies Trump

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/22/michael-cohen-donald-trump-plea-betray-flip-219381

[thebuzzardman]

Dimestore Nosferatu chimes in:

"Giuliani: If Trump were impeached 'the American people would revolt'"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/politics/giuliani-donald-trump-michael-cohen/index.html

[thebuzzardman]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/24/politics/trump-tower-doorman-contract-ami/index.html

Trump's illegitimate child: "Great, when I'm acknowledged, I'll be able to get my hands on some of that Trump money"

Two years later:

Trump's illegitimate child: "F*ck! All the money is gone!"

[Pointgod]

And torture works on black sites to get accurate information from enemies of the state.

If you fight crime by going after Russian collusion and some how end up prosecuting a bunch of unrelated crimes while squeezing desperate informants for information that may or may not be accurate then the system needs changing. Fast.

The last thing democracy needs is a gestapo like agency that can destroy people’s lives and operates independently without elected officials.

The FBI has always been a **** show. Since J Edgar. **** the police.

Perhaps you don't understand how judges had to approve warrants. The judges are a check and balance.

Wrong agency though. Mueller is working inside the DOJ now which is not the same thing as running the FBI. He has a boss called Rod Rosenstein. Jeff Sessions, the head of the DOJ, just came out and said he will not interfere with justice.

You can rage about your favorite person being unfairly treated all you want, but nothing you're saying indicates you have any interest in actual justice being rendered. You just don't want your guy to get popped.

That has nothing to do with you having higher principles and being interested in freedom. If you were so interested in freedom, you'd want this kind of corruption exposed and brought to justice.

Nothing changes the facts that already multiple witnesses are going to testify in court Trump committed treason.

If you actually cared about justice, you'd be against a president committing treason.

So it is a simple question:

Will you state that you will support Trump even with irrefutable proof that he committed treason?

And, no, you don't get to qualify that by saying you would if the methods of investigation were legit, because Trump has implicated himself every step of the way. Only a bonehead investigator would have a hard time proving Trump's guilt. No malfeasance is required to pursue this case.

And your use of historical terms is also very confused.

The Gestapo did not function with any due process. There were no checks and balances to hold the gestapo accountable. Calling Mueller the Gestapo is laughable. Mueller has demonstrated he will proceed in a non-partisan fashion and has already referred Democrats for possible prosecution. Does the name Podesta mean anything to you? Yeah, well he's in trouble too.

As far as your recommendations that defendants not be squeezed by prosecutors, that's just silly. You received about ten responses that threw that misguided complaint back in your face. Why don't you reply to each of those too and see where that gets you? You clearly don't know what you're talking about and how our legal system functions. You're pretending this is not the way it should be done. You're living in a fairytale if you actually believe that.

not going to debate a zealot, it’s fruitless.

So what you're saying is that you don't believe criminal activity should be investigated?

[Clyde_Style]

Clarification on the Weisselberg deal. It is an immunity deal, but it appears to only cover his involvement with Trump and Cohen in the hush money payments. If he's going to be a source of info on the rest of Trump's business then that will entail another deal if that ever happens.

Basically, the probe has honed in on the campaign finance violations with the testimonies and evidence from Weisselberg, Pecker and Cohen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/24/us/politics/allen-weisselberg-immunity-cohen-trump.html

QUOTE:

The person briefed on the deal said that it was narrow in scope, protecting Mr. Weisselberg from self-incrimination in sharing information with prosecutors about Mr. Cohen, Mr. Trump’s former personal lawyer, who pleaded guilty on Tuesday to tax and campaign finance charges. The latter charges stemmed from payments during the campaign to two women who said they had affairs with Mr. Trump. It was not, the person said, a blanket immunity extending beyond the information he shared, and Mr. Weisselberg remains in his job at the Trump Organization.

[Clyde_Style]

If you read anything, read this. It confirms what makes Mueller tick.

E86, read this and then you'll have no problem dropping your misguided notions about gestapos. If you actually care about the truth then at least do the minimum homework and understand Mueller. You'll see this guy is not a partisan and not a zealot. The Truth is the Truth. You need to deal with it.

What it establishes very clearly is Mueller does not pursue prosecutions unless there is clear evidence warranting it. This guy is very protocol driven.

And if there is dirt to be found, he'll find it.

If anything, this profile paints a picture of a man who does not want to set precedents, but follow the letter of the law. If that is 100% true then he may not indict Trump so we shall see. I contend it is a gray area, therefore making it impossible to be certain either way.

What Will Mueller Do? The Answer Might Lie in a By-the-Book Past

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/us/politics/robert-mueller-russia-investigation.html

[CharlesOakley]

The last thing democracy needs is a gestapo like agency that can destroy people’s lives and operates independently without elected officials.

I know you were referring to the FBI but it also describes ICE. Are you fine with one but not the other?

[Clyde_Style]

The last thing democracy needs is a gestapo like agency that can destroy people’s lives and operates independently without elected officials.

I know you were referring to the FBI but it also describes ICE. Are you fine with one but not the other?

Mueller functions with plenty of oversight.

ICE? Not so much

They're breaking up families by deporting men who've done three tours of U.S. military duty. Totally messed up set of priorities.

[HarthorneWingo]

Dimestore Nosferatu chimes in:

"Giuliani: If Trump were impeached 'the American people would revolt'"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/politics/giuliani-donald-trump-michael-cohen/index.html

I'm really loving Jim Carrey's paintings these days.

[BKlutch]

The one thing I'm confident Trump does understand about pardons is they liberate the pardonee to testify against him because you can still be subpoenaed and under threat of perjury if you lie in court. So if you can't go to jail at that point for telling the truth you spill the beans.

Correct. If pardoned, Manafort can still be compelled to testify and would be unable to claim his 5th Amendment rights. And if he lies under oath, he would face new charges of perjury. Of course, Trump could also pardon him for that after the fact, and continue the cycle, but at that point the damage would already be done as he would have already testified.

Thus, pardoning Manafort would probably be more damaging to Trump than beneficial. However, the hints at a potential pardon are meant more to send a signal, and these types of things can also be construed as potential witness tampering.

Yes, it is witness tampering. Trump has done it via Twitter innumerable times already. The itemized list on obstruction charges is very long at this point

There's always the defense that it's "only just Twitter, not what I really say or did." He wants Twitter, as other things, to be used one way for him and another for everyone else. Flipping is bad? Guiliani did that hundreds of times with the Mafia, and Trump clearly loved that. But don't flip HIS people. So if he can write the laws, or convince America he does, the law will become meaningless. That's his only hope.

[HarthorneWingo]

Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-MA)! Dude is a gangsta. Who knew?

Read on Twitter

[Clyde_Style]

Correct. If pardoned, Manafort can still be compelled to testify and would be unable to claim his 5th Amendment rights. And if he lies under oath, he would face new charges of perjury. Of course, Trump could also pardon him for that after the fact, and continue the cycle, but at that point the damage would already be done as he would have already testified.

Thus, pardoning Manafort would probably be more damaging to Trump than beneficial. However, the hints at a potential pardon are meant more to send a signal, and these types of things can also be construed as potential witness tampering.

Yes, it is witness tampering. Trump has done it via Twitter innumerable times already. The itemized list on obstruction charges is very long at this point

There's always the defense that it's "only just Twitter, not what I really say or did." He wants Twitter, as other things, to be used one way for him and another for everyone else. Flipping is bad? Guiliani did that hundreds of times with the Mafia, and Trump clearly loved that. But don't flip HIS people. So if he can write the laws, or convince America he does, the law will become meaningless. That's his only hope.

It has already been reported that Mueller's team are dissecting his tweet history. It seems inevitable some of them will be entered as evidence.

[HarthorneWingo]

Yes, it is witness tampering. Trump has done it via Twitter innumerable times already. The itemized list on obstruction charges is very long at this point

There's always the defense that it's "only just Twitter, not what I really say or did." He wants Twitter, as other things, to be used one way for him and another for everyone else. Flipping is bad? Guiliani did that hundreds of times with the Mafia, and Trump clearly loved that. But don't flip HIS people. So if he can write the laws, or convince America he does, the law will become meaningless. That's his only hope.

It has already been reported that Mueller's team are dissecting his tweet history. It seems inevitable some of them will be entered as evidence.

And then given to the psychiatrists at Bellvue

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

[BKlutch]

Yes, it is witness tampering. Trump has done it via Twitter innumerable times already. The itemized list on obstruction charges is very long at this point

There's always the defense that it's "only just Twitter, not what I really say or did." He wants Twitter, as other things, to be used one way for him and another for everyone else. Flipping is bad? Guiliani did that hundreds of times with the Mafia, and Trump clearly loved that. But don't flip HIS people. So if he can write the laws, or convince America he does, the law will become meaningless. That's his only hope.

It has already been reported that Mueller's team are dissecting his tweet history. It seems inevitable some of them will be entered as evidence.

There are many nightmare scenarios. One is what we already have - a questionably mentally competent narcissist who would use the country solely to advance his own interests. Another is that all the information we need to rid ourselves of this menace becomes available after it is too late to do any good. Why can't anyone access his IRS records legally as a result of the financial improprieties committed? And a third is possibly even more concerning: that Mueller will present evidence for an impeachment, that Trump will fire Sessions, Muller will get fired, and the Republicans will collectively blind themselves to what is going on because of Hillary's emails.

Of course, I'm really hoping we wouldn't put up with that one. I'm thinking there would be hell to pay. And besides Meuller, there are other Federal prosecutors and states' attorneys general who could carry this forward. But that would be devastating to government and to our nation's stability during the period of uncertainty.

The best outcome, of course would be for Meuller to present such an incontrovertible case that Trump resigns for "health reasons" before the judicial proceedings.

And then both Pence and Trump accept positions in the Putin administration.

[BKlutch]

There's always the defense that it's "only just Twitter, not what I really say or did." He wants Twitter, as other things, to be used one way for him and another for everyone else. Flipping is bad? Guiliani did that hundreds of times with the Mafia, and Trump clearly loved that. But don't flip HIS people. So if he can write the laws, or convince America he does, the law will become meaningless. That's his only hope.

It has already been reported that Mueller's team are dissecting his tweet history. It seems inevitable some of them will be entered as evidence.

And then given to the psychiatrists at Bellvue

They'd do nothing different - they are already preparing very serous syringes of tranquilizer medications.

[Clyde_Style]

There's always the defense that it's "only just Twitter, not what I really say or did." He wants Twitter, as other things, to be used one way for him and another for everyone else. Flipping is bad? Guiliani did that hundreds of times with the Mafia, and Trump clearly loved that. But don't flip HIS people. So if he can write the laws, or convince America he does, the law will become meaningless. That's his only hope.

It has already been reported that Mueller's team are dissecting his tweet history. It seems inevitable some of them will be entered as evidence.

There are many nightmare scenarios. One is what we already have - a questionably mentally competent narcissist who would use the country solely to advance his own interests. Another is that all the information we need to rid ourselves of this menace becomes available after it is too late to do any good. Why can't anyone access his IRS records legally as a result of the financial improprieties committed? And a third is possibly even more concerning: that Mueller will present evidence for an impeachment, that Trump will fire Sessions, Muller will get fired, and the Republicans will collectively blind themselves to what is going on because of Hillary's emails.

Of course, I'm really hoping we wouldn't put up with that one. I'm thinking there would be hell to pay. And besides Meuller, there are other Federal prosecutors and states' attorneys general who could carry this forward. But that would be devastating to government and to our nation's stability during the period of uncertainty.

The best outcome, of course would be for Meuller to present such an incontrovertible case that Trump resigns for "health reasons" before the judicial proceedings.

And then both Pence and Trump accept positions in the Putin administration.

You can be confident Mueller has had his IRS filings for a long time already.

Per firing Sessions, the GOP just babysat Trump by saying you can't fire him until after the mid-terms. They know they can't support it and after the mid-terms they won't have to so as usual they told Trump something that placates him while sidestepping the issue.

The other issue is if you fire Sessions, you then have to fire Rosenstein which won't be easy either. AND THEN you have to find a fall guy to be the nominee to run the DOJ who would then fire Mueller. So not only do you have to go through the nomination breach which in this case would be wildly contentious and ugly, the nominee also would have to BOTH a die-hard Trump partisan AND a fall guy because they would immediately be in the hotseat as a collaborator in the matter of obstruction.

So, not as easy as people think. If Trump was going to do it, his window looks closed now.

And you're right, there are various investigations and prosecutions proceeding that can in their own right completely cripple and even take down Trump.

We're only at Cat 1 or 2 hurricane force. It will reach a Cat 5 before this is over.