Better current player: Brown or Tatum?

[akhan786]

Still this. Aggressive Tatum has a chance to be a top 5 player in this league. It’s all in his head

Top 5? Wow, not a chance in hell but I'm good with that. Happy if he hits top 20.

Interested to see how much his body fills out and how that changes his game.

Oh absolutely. Kid has all the bells and whistles to be an elite player in this league.

I really love that phrasing. One of my driving curiosities in life is to discover new and better ways to express the concepts in my head. And I especially love ones that are associated with basketball.

Going to use it when I'm trying to articulate that concept in the future.

[TheMartian]

I'm thrilled to have both on our team.

I love Jaylen's athleticism, work ethic and his appetite to get better and improve on his flaws, but not only that - he has actually shown significant results from year 1 to year 2. Sky's the limit for the kid.

As for Jayson, I love his poise as a just-turned-20 year old rookie, coupled with his potential to still grow (I think he's 6'9" now and his frame could still fill out). Combined with his awesome skillset, I wouldn't doubt he would eventually become one of the top players in the league by the time he reaches 24-25.

The cherry on top is they both push each other to get better which will only mean good things for them and for the team.

Go C's!

[ConstableGeneva]

Watch on YouTube

[cloverleaf]

Tatum with the much higher ceiling and better game now, though of course younger and less experienced.
Still, they are quite complementary and I hope will be fellow Celtics for the next 15 years.

[Fencer reregistered]

Tatum will always be better than Brown on offense. At least, it sure seems that he'll always be more versatile, and I can't identify any big advantage that Brown gets from athleticism or experience.

He started out way behind Brown on defense, but in the playoffs he actually looked as good as or better than Brown; both got to the right places at the right times, and Tatum had a bunch of flashy steals.

What I don't recall clearly from the playoffs is the matchups. Middleton went seriously off, Saric did well, Covington was terrible, Lebron was Lebron, most of Lebron's teammates were well-contained ... but who defended whom what fraction of the time?

[Joshyjess]

Watch on YouTube

Wow, that was awesome! And very, very mean. Posting something like this with 2 months to go before the season starts is just downright nasty! Now I am in such a mood to watch them play, and I still have to wait so long. AAAAAAHHHHH.
It is an amazing video though!!!!

[24istheLAW]

Tatum will always be better than Brown on offense. At least, it sure seems that he'll always be more versatile, and I can't identify any big advantage that Brown gets from athleticism or experience.

He started out way behind Brown on defense, but in the playoffs he actually looked as good as or better than Brown; both got to the right places at the right times, and Tatum had a bunch of flashy steals.

What I don't recall clearly from the playoffs is the matchups. Middleton went seriously off, Saric did well, Covington was terrible, Lebron was Lebron, most of Lebron's teammates were well-contained ... but who defended whom what fraction of the time?

My general impression (not scientific):

Brown is better at denying dribble penetration and at holding his ground in the post, Tatum is better at contesting shots and is a better help defender/playmaker. Both give fouls on little contact too often. Overall I'd say Tatum was better this year.

Going forward, I think Tatum can improve on his weaknesses pretty easily. Adding strength will help him deal with being backed down. And his budding scoring talent will get the refs to favor him which should mitigate the grabby tendencies.

As for the OP - I think its pretty clearly Tatum. I like Brown but Tatum is just something else.

[Elrod is Back]

Ask again in 10 years. Hope it is a tough call then, too.

[31to6]

Watch on YouTube

redonc that we have both of these guys.

Suck my dick NBA!

[return2glory]

Ask again in 10 years. Hope it is a tough call then, too.

What’s so tough about it?

To me, it’s not even close. I will take Tatum all day, every day. Basketball comes natural to Tatum. Brown was raw but he puts in the work to keep getting better.

Tatum works just as hard if not harder. Tatum is the type of natural player that breath, eats and loves basketball.

[cloverleaf]

Ask again in 10 years. Hope it is a tough call then, too.

What’s so tough about it?

To me, it’s not even close. I will take Tatum all day, every day. Basketball comes natural to Tatum. Brown was raw but he puts in the work to keep getting better.

Tatum works just as hard if not harder. Tatum is the type of natural player that breath, eats and loves basketball.

I totally agree. Good for JB on making himself a better and better basketball player. But he still doesn't have nearly the natural BBIQ , movement, and complete game of JT.

[Darthlukey]

Based on what I've seen from him throughout the season, and particularly the playoffs, the potential is definitely there.

He can create his own shots, score efficiently, already above average on D, clutch, and his only offensive weakness is his passing, which he is not really bad at, and most importantly the attitude to be great, all while being a rookie.

And all his supposed weakness in college are now his strengths in the NBA - 3 point shot, defense, fitting into a system.

Struggling to recall a time when Celtic great Paul Pierce was considered a top 5 player in the league. So we're saying he's going to be better than Pierce?? Pierce is HOF but I'm not sure he was ever truly considered a top 5 player in the league.

Understand what that means, being a top 5 guy. That's rarified air, KD, LeBron, Harden, AD, Steph, Kawhi, Giannis, Westbrook territory. Think about what Kyrie has accomplished and largely not considered a top 5 player. Top 5 guys are their own brands.

Expectations getting a little out of hand here.

Pierce was never considered top 5 by the nba pundits/writers but he was 5th in win shares in 2001-02 and he was on a team that didn't exactly make it easy for him to get proper national recognition. Looking at that regular season and post season stats and taking into account quality of teammates and what the other players did in context, I actually think PP looking back has a legit claim to being in the argument for the 5th best player in 2001-2. Certainly if he wasn't top 5 that year just a smidgen behind whoever you want to put 5th.

I was no Antoine Walker hater -- he had a great quote about shooting 4's -- but Walker at times getting modestly more credit than his game deserved detracted from Pierce getting all of the credit he deserved. PP wasn't just a "professional scorer", guy could defend and come up with the tough physical rebounds.

Remember the series OKC with KD/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka lost against Miami. I suspect they win it with a 22 year old PP replacing Harden since PP was the more willing defender. He might get torched by Lebron since everyone can be torched by the guy but he would have fought the guy and not backed down. That to me is worth a lot.

Stuff like top 5 players I think is often arbitrary when you get past the no brainers like Lebron/Shaq/Jordan/Duncan, I never thought Clyde Drexler at his best really helped teams win games much more than Paul Pierce. But Drexler had significantly better teammates for his peak years than Pierce so he finished 2nd and 5th in the MVP voting two seasons. But his top win share performance compared to rest of the league wasn't even higher than Pierce's best.

Random piece to point out, but it wasn't hardens lack of d that killed OKC in that series, it was his horrible offensive output. He had a terrible series shooting the ball, utterly awful

[GoGreen]

Voted Brown, but right now it's Tatum. He's a natural.

[brackdan70]

Tatum is better now but it is very close. Brown has some nights where he is a beast, and I think Browns potential is still higher. nice to have both these young studs

This was my take in April... voted for Tatum then and still would bu t I have changed my position on potential. I believe Tatum is higher. Dude just has it. Not to say Brown doesn’t have plenty!!!

[Wes-J]

Tatum is better now but it is very close. Brown has some nights where he is a beast, and I think Browns potential is still higher. nice to have both these young studs

This was my take in April... voted for Tatum then and still would bu t I have changed my position on potential. I believe Tatum is higher. Dude just has it. Not to say Brown doesn’t have plenty!!!

Yup no doubt Tatum is better but I still hold Brown in very high regard.

I know several on here don't believe in his potential to be an elite player but I gotta disagree. He's just too talented and has everything else it takes in his DNA to possibly reach top 10 status. Fearless, intelligent, and works his ass off.

The beauty of it is we don't have to choose. Just enjoy them both for years to come.

[Parasite]

Ask again in 10 years. Hope it is a tough call then, too.

Tough call? No. Not at all. At least for people who know the game. Tatum is at least a tier above Brown. The gap will probably widen some as well. But it’s really not an indictment on Brown. Tatum is just that good.

[Duke4life831]

Tatum was no doubt very impressive especially in the playoffs last year. My biggest question mark with him is his explosion off of 1 foot. He can be a weak finisher when he attacks off of 1 foot. When he goes off of 2, the dude has plenty of explosion. Im not saying he is a bad finisher around the rim, 63% at the rim during the season and 64% during the playoffs is damn good for a rookie. My biggest question mark is what kind of potential does he have in that area. When you look at the best wings in today's game (LeBron, Kawhi, KD, Giannis) all of those guys are elite finishers at the rim (70%+).

I honestly think that might be the only thing that holds him back from entering that tier. He doesnt have the quickest first step, but you can see the clear potential with his handle where with his handle and size, he will have no problem creating consistent space with the ball (saw that most of the playoffs). I love his shot and I love his defense. Not the most natural facilitator but neither is Kawhi or KD and that didnt prevent them from being top 5 players.

When it comes to Brown I just dont see that level of potential. I think he clearly has all star type potential, just doesnt have the natural feel or skill of the game that Tatum has. Both guys are studs though.

[cloverleaf]

Tatum was no doubt very impressive especially in the playoffs last year. My biggest question mark with him is his explosion off of 1 foot. He can be a weak finisher when he attacks off of 1 foot. When he goes off of 2, the dude has plenty of explosion. Im not saying he is a bad finisher around the rim, 63% at the rim during the season and 64% during the playoffs is damn good for a rookie. My biggest question mark is what kind of potential does he have in that area. When you look at the best wings in today's game (LeBron, Kawhi, KD, Giannis) all of those guys are elite finishers at the rim (70%+).

I honestly think that might be the only thing that holds him back from entering that tier. He doesnt have the quickest first step, but you can see the clear potential with his handle where with his handle and size, he will have no problem creating consistent space with the ball (saw that most of the playoffs). I love his shot and I love his defense. Not the most natural facilitator but neither is Kawhi or KD and that didnt prevent them from being top 5 players.

When it comes to Brown I just dont see that level of potential. I think he clearly has all star type potential, just doesnt have the natural feel or skill of the game that Tatum has. Both guys are studs though.

Eh--when LBJ was a rook Tatum's age his % was .604 from 0-3. KD's was .609 and Giannis had .573. Tatum was at .629. Yeah, Kawhi was better--and a year older while playing less.

We know JT has been working on it and getting stronger--I expect a real improvement on his finishing (in traffic, where he tended to falter) this year.

Oh, and in his first two seasons, Jaylen has been at .614 and .622.

[Duke4life831]

Tatum was no doubt very impressive especially in the playoffs last year. My biggest question mark with him is his explosion off of 1 foot. He can be a weak finisher when he attacks off of 1 foot. When he goes off of 2, the dude has plenty of explosion. Im not saying he is a bad finisher around the rim, 63% at the rim during the season and 64% during the playoffs is damn good for a rookie. My biggest question mark is what kind of potential does he have in that area. When you look at the best wings in today's game (LeBron, Kawhi, KD, Giannis) all of those guys are elite finishers at the rim (70%+).

I honestly think that might be the only thing that holds him back from entering that tier. He doesnt have the quickest first step, but you can see the clear potential with his handle where with his handle and size, he will have no problem creating consistent space with the ball (saw that most of the playoffs). I love his shot and I love his defense. Not the most natural facilitator but neither is Kawhi or KD and that didnt prevent them from being top 5 players.

When it comes to Brown I just dont see that level of potential. I think he clearly has all star type potential, just doesnt have the natural feel or skill of the game that Tatum has. Both guys are studs though.

Eh--when LBJ was a rook Tatum's age his % was .604 from 0-3. KD's was .609 and Giannis had .573. Tatum was at .629. Yeah, Kawhi was better--and a year older while playing less.

We know JT has been working on it and getting stronger--I expect a real improvement on his finishing (in traffic, where he tended to falter) this year.

Oh, and in his first two seasons, Jaylen has been at .614 and .622.

Ya I know he finished at the rim really well for a rookie. That is why I said his finishing at the rim was damn good for a rookie. Again my question when it comes to his finishing is what kind of potential does he have there. LeBron, KD, Giannis are all physical freaks, Tatum is not. Paul George shot 65% at the rim his rookie year, he didnt match that number again until this past year and is a career 62% finisher at the rim.

Im not saying this to bash Tatum (Im a massive Tatum fan), Im saying this is the area of his game where I have the biggest question on how much can he improve. I also think if he is ever going to become a top 5 type player, he is going to have to be an elite finisher at the rim.

[SeizeCoup]

This past postseason something clicked for Brown where he realized how easy it is for him to get to the basket at will. While it’s important for him to continue working on his handle, being a straight line attacker of the rim will serve him well. Like Pierce, once Brown gets his shoulders past his defender it’s hard to stop him. Just has to work on his finishing - especially when not dunking.