The Perfect Center (Physique: David Robinson)

[Morb]

I would train Wilt '62 for 35% 3pts and 70% FT.

[henshao]

00 Shaq.

For the wilt lovers, no he has too long of legs. Shaq's lower center of gravity was a HUGE physical edge.

The lowest man with the most leverage wins the battle for position, sure. I think you are really splitting hairs on this one, though.

[Jaivl]

Not a single mention of Wilt?

It was my second pick. But Bamba is even longer

[Dr Spaceman]

00 Shaq.

For the wilt lovers, no he has too long of legs. Shaq's lower center of gravity was a HUGE physical edge.

The lowest man with the most leverage wins the battle for position, sure. I think you are really splitting hairs on this one, though.

How is it splitting hairs when that was the key to Shaq’s Greatness?

[kendogg]

00 Shaq.

For the wilt lovers, no he has too long of legs. Shaq's lower center of gravity was a HUGE physical edge.

Wilt had 0 problems getting position on 280+ lb guys and he played in a more physical era. Shaq's era was very competitive, though Shaq didn't peak until after all the great 90's centers retired. They both played against several of the all time greats so the competition is roughly a wash.

Wilt is stronger than Shaq. He's faster than Shaq by an enormous margin (Wilt ran a 4.4 40y in college and multiple witnesses to him beating jim brown, the best running back of all time, in a footrace, twice). He's a better jumper than Shaq by an enormous margin. He blocked Kareem's skyhoook twice in a row and on the globetrotters could make change off the top of the backboard. People tracked wilt's blocks from the footage we have and he averaged almost 9 blocks a game in '62. Not to mention being a better rebounder in any era than Shaq and it's not close.

Wilt also has better stamina than Shaq by an enormous margin. 48.5 minutes per game nuff said. Shaq is as quick and as explosive as Wilt perhaps...they are pretty close there. Wilt had a feathery touch around the basket and had a go to turnaround jumpshot. He once shot 78% from the field which is the only player in history than can dwarfs shaq's 60%.

So your argument that Shaq is better is that he has a fat ass? LOL.

[dhsilv2]

00 Shaq.

For the wilt lovers, no he has too long of legs. Shaq's lower center of gravity was a HUGE physical edge.

Wilt had 0 problems getting position on 280+ lb guys and he played in a more physical era. Shaq's era was very competitive, though Shaq didn't peak until after all the great 90's centers retired. They both played against several of the all time greats so the competition is roughly a wash.

Wilt is stronger than Shaq. He's faster than Shaq by an enormous margin (Wilt ran a 4.4 40y in college and multiple witnesses to him beating jim brown, the best running back of all time, in a footrace, twice). He's a better jumper than Shaq by an enormous margin. He blocked Kareem's skyhoook twice in a row and on the globetrotters could make change off the top of the backboard. People tracked wilt's blocks from the footage we have and he averaged almost 9 blocks a game in '62. Not to mention being a better rebounder in any era than Shaq and it's not close.

Wilt also has better stamina than Shaq by an enormous margin. 48.5 minutes per game nuff said. Shaq is as quick and as explosive as Wilt perhaps...they are pretty close there. Wilt had a feathery touch around the basket and had a go to turnaround jumpshot. He once shot 78% from the field which is the only player in history than can dwarfs shaq's 60%.

So your argument that Shaq is better is that he has a fat ass? LOL.

We are not discussing shaq or wilt as players. We are discussing if a robot were to take the body type, apply training, nutrition, etc etc and give them a robot brain. Now go back and read what I said and if you disagree, by all means explain why, but you're going off on a rant about the players and not the body types.

[HeartBreakKid]

00 Shaq.

For the wilt lovers, no he has too long of legs. Shaq's lower center of gravity was a HUGE physical edge.

The lowest man with the most leverage wins the battle for position, sure. I think you are really splitting hairs on this one, though.

How is it splitting hairs when that was the key to Shaq’s Greatness?

Is it really key, or are people tunnel visioning on very slight differences between him and Chamberlain? Shaq is incredibly tall and long limbed, and was longer than pretty much everyone who tried to guard him on top of being significantly heavier. Can we really say having a low center of gravity was a strength of Shaqs when his opponents usually had lower center of gravity?

If Wilt Chamberlain had been built exactly like Shaq I don't think Wilt's style would change. They thought about the game differently and their eras also thought about the game differently. Wilt probably could duplicate Shaq's style if he thought that was how the game should be played (or if a coach some how forced him to).

[dhsilv2]

The lowest man with the most leverage wins the battle for position, sure. I think you are really splitting hairs on this one, though.

How is it splitting hairs when that was the key to Shaq’s Greatness?

Is it really key, or are people tunnel visioning on very slight differences between him and Chamberlain? Shaq is incredibly tall and long limbed, and was longer than pretty much everyone who tried to guard him on top of being significantly heavier. Can we really say having a low center of gravity was a strength of Shaqs when his opponents usually had lower center of gravity?

If Wilt Chamberlain had been built exactly like Shaq I don't think Wilt's style would change. They thought about the game differently and their eras also thought about the game differently. Wilt probably could duplicate Shaq's style if he thought that was how the game should be played (or if a coach some how forced him to).

You want a tall guy and with that there will always be long limbs, but the more weight you hold as low as possible the better. Or in short the bigger your gluts are the better.

Imagine if Shaq and wilt's work ethic. Imagine how much more he could have done with his body.

[DeathLineup]

Added a poll.

After the poll finished, going to open the discussion for “Part 2: Offensive Attributes”

[70sFan]

00 Shaq.

For the wilt lovers, no he has too long of legs. Shaq's lower center of gravity was a HUGE physical edge.

Shaq didn't have much lower center of gravity though. Also, ~1964 Wilt was almost as big as 2000 Shaq and he was quicker, faster and jumped higher.

Maybe someone like Robinson, Hakeem or Russell are "more perfect" than Shaq, Wilt or Gilmore. They are quicker and more nimble. I'm not sure...

[dhsilv2]

00 Shaq.

For the wilt lovers, no he has too long of legs. Shaq's lower center of gravity was a HUGE physical edge.

Shaq didn't have much lower center of gravity though. Also, ~1964 Wilt was almost as big as 2000 Shaq and he was quicker, faster and jumped higher.

Maybe someone like Robinson, Hakeem or Russell are "more perfect" than Shaq, Wilt or Gilmore. They are quicker and more nimble. I'm not sure...

Wilts legs look meaningfully longer and he didn't have the extra weight in his lower region that shaq did.

Honestly shaq was incredibly nimble, imagine if shaq ate right and mixed weight lifting in with yoga. Imagine david robinson body fat shaq in the league, with weight lifter strength and even just maintained shaq's younger flexibility.

[kendogg]

your whole argument is shaq is lazy and has a better natural body but wilt just worked harder. shaq came into camp out of shape a few times and you can argue over what playing weight you think he is most effective at, but at any weight he's not as effective as wilt. so I have to say that wilt has the better physique. there is nothing in my mind that shaq's physique does better than wilt, though they are close.

[kendogg]

00 Shaq.

For the wilt lovers, no he has too long of legs. Shaq's lower center of gravity was a HUGE physical edge.

Shaq didn't have much lower center of gravity though. Also, ~1964 Wilt was almost as big as 2000 Shaq and he was quicker, faster and jumped higher.

Maybe someone like Robinson, Hakeem or Russell are "more perfect" than Shaq, Wilt or Gilmore. They are quicker and more nimble. I'm not sure...

Wilts legs look meaningfully longer and he didn't have the extra weight in his lower region that shaq did.

Honestly shaq was incredibly nimble, imagine if shaq ate right and mixed weight lifting in with yoga. Imagine david robinson body fat shaq in the league, with weight lifter strength and even just maintained shaq's younger flexibility.

exactly. its between wilt and hakeem, not wilt and shaq.

[dhsilv2]

Shaq didn't have much lower center of gravity though. Also, ~1964 Wilt was almost as big as 2000 Shaq and he was quicker, faster and jumped higher.

Maybe someone like Robinson, Hakeem or Russell are "more perfect" than Shaq, Wilt or Gilmore. They are quicker and more nimble. I'm not sure...

Wilts legs look meaningfully longer and he didn't have the extra weight in his lower region that shaq did.

Honestly shaq was incredibly nimble, imagine if shaq ate right and mixed weight lifting in with yoga. Imagine david robinson body fat shaq in the league, with weight lifter strength and even just maintained shaq's younger flexibility.

exactly. its between wilt and hakeem, not wilt and shaq.

Yeah I don't see any real case for hakeem either. He's much shorter than his listed height, ok well he's more like 6'10 - 6'10 1/3. A lot of hakeems moves and skills were due to learning how to move like that in soccer as a kid and of course he had natural gifts and like most players at that level was extremely gifted genetically. Still if we're going agility I'll take a kareem before a hakeem.

[dhsilv2]

your whole argument is shaq is lazy and has a better natural body but wilt just worked harder. shaq came into camp out of shape a few times and you can argue over what playing weight you think he is most effective at, but at any weight he's not as effective as wilt. so I have to say that wilt has the better physique. there is nothing in my mind that shaq's physique does better than wilt, though they are close.

As I clearly went over, he has a better center of gravity. he's also more agile at that higher weight.

And yes, we're talking about their frames and bodies, not how they actually played basketball.

Shaq might have come in "in shape" but he never put in the time like a Wilt a Robinson or even an Hakeem did in their bodies. Shaq was just crazy gifted and he even talks about how badly he used to eat now.

[frica]

Depends on the era.
The late 90s some physical center like Wilt or Shaq.
Pre-shotclock probably some short-limbed giant like Yao Ming who could also shoot the FT incredibly well.

This era Russell would likely have the physical advantage over the two.(Shaq/Wilt)
Centers have shrunk since the 90s, height isn't an issue as long as you aren't much shorter than 6'10 barefoot.
Bill's superior lateral quickness would be the difference (this era) compared to the other two.

Hakeem is a contender too, 6'10-6'11 is perfect for this era.

Unless we're talking hypotheticals like Manute Bol with Steph Curry shooting. Then I wouldn't know how to counter a beast like that unless you're setting screens around the half-court line, but that would create insane spacing.

Edit:somewhat irrelevant but is there any footage of Unseld vs Wilt? (Besides Wilt dunking)

[ThatBoyNick]

Hakeem. You can't disconnect physique from mobility as @henshao mentioned. I'll take Hakeems agility, athleticism and strength in today's NBA. His ability to guard both bigs and guards would be a dagger.

[70sFan]

Depends on the era.
The late 90s some physical center like Wilt or Shaq.
Pre-shotclock probably some short-limbed giant like Yao Ming who could also shoot the FT incredibly well.

This era Russell would likely have the physical advantage over the two.(Shaq/Wilt)
Centers have shrunk since the 90s, height isn't an issue as long as you aren't much shorter than 6'10 barefoot.
Bill's superior lateral quickness would be the difference (this era) compared to the other two.

Hakeem is a contender too, 6'10-6'11 is perfect for this era.

Unless we're talking hypotheticals like Manute Bol with Steph Curry shooting. Then I wouldn't know how to counter a beast like that unless you're setting screens around the half-court line, but that would create insane spacing.

Edit:somewhat irrelevant but is there any footage of Unseld vs Wilt? (Besides Wilt dunking)

Two all-star games (1969, 1972) and some short clips. Not much, but you can find it on YT.

[70sFan]

your whole argument is shaq is lazy and has a better natural body but wilt just worked harder. shaq came into camp out of shape a few times and you can argue over what playing weight you think he is most effective at, but at any weight he's not as effective as wilt. so I have to say that wilt has the better physique. there is nothing in my mind that shaq's physique does better than wilt, though they are close.

As I clearly went over, he has a better center of gravity. he's also more agile at that higher weight.

And yes, we're talking about their frames and bodies, not how they actually played basketball.

Shaq might have come in "in shape" but he never put in the time like a Wilt a Robinson or even an Hakeem did in their bodies. Shaq was just crazy gifted and he even talks about how badly he used to eat now.

I don't see Shaq as more agile than Wilt. Besides, someone with Shaq frame would always have tough time against P&Rs. Shaq was extremely quick for his size, but not for any size. Someone like Wilt would fare better in that situations. Someone like Robinson or Russell is ideal for that kind of defense.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Young Shaq, '00 version had a relatively low ceiling on mobility due to his size.