2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[Drax]

Hey there Suns community,

Celtics fan comming in piece. With the recent trade and news that your team is looking for a point guard, i was wondering if you guys/your front office would be interested in Terry Rozier? Does his skillset somewhat fit the description of the point guard you looking for or am i wasting my time thinking about a potential trade?

Just curious, what you fellas think.

[Frank Lee]

Seriously what the heck? Rockets actually get better with this trade. A lot better. Chriss and Knight are gonna be fairly good role players for them I feel.

Can't see what this does for the suns but okay

A lot better .... except if Chriss and Knight play like ... um Chriss and Knight.

We got a lot smarter by jettisoning dumb and dumber. We could have replaced them with a bag of rocks and increased our overall BBIQ, but as it turns out, got another wily Vet who wont hurt us, is a very good bomber, and NOT a moody head case. This Melton kid checks out as a solid two way player who didnt play his last season in the NCAA for whatever reason. He's a good cheap prospect.

I dont see any downside in this deal at all. At the very least it is addition by subtraction. Hats off for cleaning some house without buying the farm. It only effects the cap by a couple million if you pencil in keeping Chriss on his option. Plus, McDontLookNow is finally rid of one of his biggest trade boondoggles and what seems a draft bust. It works for me just on that level.

may be there is more to come as it seems PG lacks serious star power... yet, we could be just fine there with a trio of hard nosers who are balling all out for playing time and contracts. Furthermore, I didnt believe a word of the 'Booker wont play very much at PG' conversation.

[Saberestar]

Seriously what the heck? Rockets actually get better with this trade. A lot better. Chriss and Knight are gonna be fairly good role players for them I feel.

Can't see what this does for the suns but okay

A lot better .... except if Chriss and Knight play like ... um Chriss and Knight.

We got a lot smarter by jettisoning dumb and dumber. We could have replaced them with a bag of rocks and increased our overall BBIQ, but as it turns out, got another wily Vet who wont hurt us, is a very good bomber, and NOT a moody head case. This Melton kid checks out as a solid two way player who didnt play his last season in the NCAA for whatever reason. He's a good cheap prospect.

I dont see any downside in this deal at all. At the very least it is addition by subtraction. Hats off for cleaning some house without buying the farm. It only effects the cap by a couple million if you pencil in keeping Chriss on his option. Plus, McDontLookNow is finally rid of one of his biggest trade boondoggles and what seems a draft bust. It works for me just on that level.

may be there is more to come as it seems PG lacks serious star power... yet, we could be just fine there with a trio of hard nosers who are balling all out for playing time and contracts. Furthermore, I didnt believe a word of the 'Booker wont play very much at PG' conversation.

This.

And I think that we are gonna trade for veteran PG. But not sure who can be.

[King4Day]

Hey there Suns community,

Celtics fan comming in piece. With the recent trade and news that your team is looking for a point guard, i was wondering if you guys/your front office would be interested in Terry Rozier? Does his skillset somewhat fit the description of the point guard you looking for or am i wasting my time thinking about a potential trade?

Just curious, what you fellas think.

I think most would be happy if we could nab Rozier but I don't believe Boston will move him (or let him walk) until they are certain Kyrie will re-sign.
That aside, I can only imagine Ainge will ask for the world for him too.

[Fo-Real]

I think acquiring Holmes made Chriss look even more useless.

[bhawk]

Seriously what the heck? Rockets actually get better with this trade. A lot better. Chriss and Knight are gonna be fairly good role players for them I feel.

Can't see what this does for the suns but okay

A lot better .... except if Chriss and Knight play like ... um Chriss and Knight.

We got a lot smarter by jettisoning dumb and dumber. We could have replaced them with a bag of rocks and increased our overall BBIQ, but as it turns out, got another wily Vet who wont hurt us, is a very good bomber, and NOT a moody head case. This Melton kid checks out as a solid two way player who didnt play his last season in the NCAA for whatever reason. He's a good cheap prospect.

I dont see any downside in this deal at all. At the very least it is addition by subtraction. Hats off for cleaning some house without buying the farm. It only effects the cap by a couple million if you pencil in keeping Chriss on his option. Plus, McDontLookNow is finally rid of one of his biggest trade boondoggles and what seems a draft bust. It works for me just on that level.

may be there is more to come as it seems PG lacks serious star power... yet, we could be just fine there with a trio of hard nosers who are balling all out for playing time and contracts. Furthermore, I didnt believe a word of the 'Booker wont play very much at PG' conversation.

Great perspective and spot on. I agree that this is "addition by subtraction” and I'll add that McD is learning to “Fail Faster.” We obviously saw great potential in Chriss in the 2016 draft and gambled on his unicorn-like athleticism. I’m sure that Suns coach “Yoga” Watson played a big part in helping the FO overlook his character issues, as evidenced by Chriss blindly starting for most of his rookie year.

In my revisionist history, Chriss was clearly depressed that Watson got fired and proceeded to eat his way to a 2017 summer league stinker. Yo Quierro Taco Bell?

Enter “Tough love” Triano and the discourse immediately changed. Last Dec. and even Jan. of 2018, Chriss was rounding into shape, with a strong emphasis on “rounding.” Then as recent as two months ago, Chriss did not play in Summer League – Why? Because he was out of shape… again. Hmmm, a common theme here?

I don’t know Chriss… never met the guy. But his body of work has been, dare I say, soft.

While I’m at it… who here liked watching Chriss play? Here is a guy who has consistently validated his #1 criticism coming into the league -- Low basketball IQ. I guess, his supposed “AMARE-like” athleticism was supposed to make up for his mental lapses? His athleticism did not and has not translated to the NBA. In fact, Chriss went on to miss the MOST dunks in the league his rookie year. BIGHT RED freaking FLAG.

He is a B-U-S-T compared to his 8 overall draft position. His ceiling is maybe Markieff in 5 years, but more likely he flunks out and ends up overseas.

Addition by subtraction. I hope this is a wake-up call for Chriss… on second thought… NO. The more I think about it, I will forever resent Chriss for being a BUST in PHX.

Read on Twitter

One of my hobby’s is watching the PHX Suns and without people like me, there is no NBA. Chriss had an obligation to a sport that gave him more $$ and opportunity than most will ever see in a lifetime and he is pissing all over it. Laughing all the way to the bank. Good riddance. You will not be missed.

(also posted on the Chriss thread for emphasis)

[BobbieL]

My point guard trade is this one:

GEorge Hill for Chandler and Daniels


With Anderson being traded -- I only think he can be traded again in a one for one deal or not until December 15. So this Lillard talk, unless its Warren or Jackson with Chandler - probably not happening with Anderson in the trade. Dragic I guess is out there - but for what - an expiring Chandler and Daniels to say Riley some money - maybe.

I am going with a person that would fit Igors style - and not sure Daniels and chandler are fits in Phoenix.

[WeekapaugGroove]

After this deal I think we should all once and for all stop believing any of the BS spin you hear in the offseason. All the sweet Knight and Chriss puff piece articles about them working hard and being a changed guys. Or McD saying they didn't want to have more than 2 rookies... well **** there's a good chance they have 4 on the 15 man roster and 1 on a two way.

[BobbieL]

After this deal I think we should all once and for all stop believing any of the BS spin you hear in the offseason. All the sweet Knight and Chriss puff piece articles about them working hard and being a changed guys. Or McD saying they didn't want to have more than 2 rookies... well **** there's a good chance they have 4 on the 15 man roster and 1 on a two way.

This is true.

Also, it proves that Ryan keeps things close to the vest so if you hear something from a guy like Gambo - who I am pretty sure has not tweeted a thing about this trade - its not true either. Granted, he might have got the Villanova kid right at 16 if they didn't make the trade but he also listed like 6 names for that pick so he had a pretty high probability of being right.

Ryan flies under the radar. The Bledsoe/ Dudley trade I think was later in the summer; the Scola trade with Indiana - later in the summer. He keeps things close

Ayton, Bridges, Melton, Okobo all rookies; King on a two way . I didn't think the team could get younger but I don't dislike the moves. Holmes is an upgrade over Chriss just by playing harder. Knight was not a good fit next to Booker - though I tried to talk myself into.

I don't love taking on Anderson but this truly is increasing the basketball IQ on the floor, locker room chemistry, etc.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Warren and/or Jackson need to be traded at this point. If not I'm just going to laugh when in a few months McD is on the radio pretending to be shocked that the log jam he created has blown up in his face again. Rinse and repeat

[Qwigglez]

Read on Twitter

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

Point Guard depth - here goes

Jeremy Lin: Ross from @Legion of Hoops tweeted the Suns called on Lin. My price -- Chandler


George Hill: Chandler and Daniels would save the Cavs about 3.2m. This makes sense if the Korver for Bayless deal happened though I think the Sixers made another move that makes Korver a moot point (or if you are Joey Tribbiani - a moo point). But with Sexton in Cleveland - Hill might be available

Beverly and Teodosic - have been talked about. But Chandler for one of those guys and Wes Johnson works cap wise and might helpthe Clippers with guaranteed players

CEltics and Rozier - what would it clost to get Rozier from Ainge. Jackson, WArren do not make sense with their glut of forwards.

Finally - the Utah Jazz. They have Nieto and Exum just signed; Rubio is an expiring - would TJ Warren for Ricky Rubio work for the Jazz



those are my teams off the top of my head with PG depth

[AtheJ415]

After this deal I think we should all once and for all stop believing any of the BS spin you hear in the offseason. All the sweet Knight and Chriss puff piece articles about them working hard and being a changed guys. Or McD saying they didn't want to have more than 2 rookies... well **** there's a good chance they have 4 on the 15 man roster and 1 on a two way.

This is true.

Also, it proves that Ryan keeps things close to the vest so if you hear something from a guy like Gambo - who I am pretty sure has not tweeted a thing about this trade - its not true either. Granted, he might have got the Villanova kid right at 16 if they didn't make the trade but he also listed like 6 names for that pick so he had a pretty high probability of being right.

Ryan flies under the radar. The Bledsoe/ Dudley trade I think was later in the summer; the Scola trade with Indiana - later in the summer. He keeps things close

Ayton, Bridges, Melton, Okobo all rookies; King on a two way . I didn't think the team could get younger but I don't dislike the moves. Holmes is an upgrade over Chriss just by playing harder. Knight was not a good fit next to Booker - though I tried to talk myself into.

I don't love taking on Anderson but this truly is increasing the basketball IQ on the floor, locker room chemistry, etc.

Well truthfully, I've never understood why any fan would take any GM at face value when it comes to any of this stuff. They cannot say things to the media like, "we're aiming to lose like crazy to get Ayton." Instead they say, "the goal is the playoffs" and many start to freak out about how stupid they must be. You cannot sell tickets if you admit the team has no chance before the season starts, and it also would kill the motivation for many of the players in the locker room if their GM says they don't have a prayer.

Same applies for individual player plans. You cannot shop players around the league if you are publicly saying they suck, have no chance, or are not a part of the plans. It is one thing if a player makes that public like Goran and Eric did. Then the GM can be more honest about it. But for a player like Knight or Chriss who has not done that, you cause locker room problems if you make their actual role public and you also hurt their trade value (if they have any).

Point being, fans should not be dissecting the answers GMs of every team is forced to give, like team goals and player roles.


Overall on this trade, I hate giving up on Chriss early when we still have a need at the 4. That said, I love Melton and had him in the lottery range on my big board. I am fine giving up on Knight, but taking on Anderson from a salary perspective sucks imo. With Knight, you can hope for a bounceback year and then to dump him a bit more cheaply or else to stretch him. I think that low possibility drops to nonexistant with Anderson. Thus, we cannot be big players for FA, whereas we could have been if things fell right with Knight.

Anderson is better than Knight, but since they both suck I would have rather stuck with the guy who is more movable, and sadly I do think Knight was that guy relative to Anderson.

Also, I hate starting Anderson. Start Bender if you want a traditional sized 4. He provides only slightly worse 3 point shooting and has potential to defend. Bender is potentially a great fit with Ayton. I would rather him get that role. But the reason I hate starting Anderson the most is that with where the NBA is going and with Phoenix trading up for Bridges, it really seemed we were embracing spacing and going small with versatile defenders. I am not of the belief AT ALL that starting Anderson at the 4 is a better option than starting Bridges there (and he can do that with his wingspan), and ensuring your top 5 guys are on the court (Booker, Jackson, Warren, Bridges, Ayton; or Harrison, Booker, Warren/Jackson, Bridges, Ayton with Jackson/Warren as 6th man).

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

Point Guard depth - here goes

Jeremy Lin: Ross from @Legion of Hoops tweeted the Suns called on Lin. My price -- Chandler


George Hill: Chandler and Daniels would save the Cavs about 3.2m. This makes sense if the Korver for Bayless deal happened though I think the Sixers made another move that makes Korver a moot point (or if you are Joey Tribbiani - a moo point). But with Sexton in Cleveland - Hill might be available

Beverly and Teodosic - have been talked about. But Chandler for one of those guys and Wes Johnson works cap wise and might helpthe Clippers with guaranteed players

CEltics and Rozier - what would it clost to get Rozier from Ainge. Jackson, WArren do not make sense with their glut of forwards.

Finally - the Utah Jazz. They have Nieto and Exum just signed; Rubio is an expiring - would TJ Warren for Ricky Rubio work for the Jazz



those are my teams off the top of my head with PG depth

Add the Wolves to that list... they have Teague, Rose and Tyus Jones.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

That's interesting. I wonder if they have an agreement with him to buy him out and stretch next summer.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

That's interesting. I wonder if they have an agreement with him to buy him out and stretch next summer.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

This actually makes things pretty interesting and pushes the trade more in favor of the Suns. It certainly makes the BK for Ryno trade basically a wash so it's essentially Chriss for Melton.

[Dambo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - McD you are a genius!

[WeekapaugGroove]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - McD you are a genius!

I don't hate this move in a vacuum but considering what McD gave up for Knight and Chriss isn't this like getting super drunk and puking on the floor then getting credit for cleaning it up the next morning.

[LukasBMW]

Read on Twitter

Point Guard depth - here goes

Jeremy Lin: Ross from @Legion of Hoops tweeted the Suns called on Lin. My price -- Chandler


George Hill: Chandler and Daniels would save the Cavs about 3.2m. This makes sense if the Korver for Bayless deal happened though I think the Sixers made another move that makes Korver a moot point (or if you are Joey Tribbiani - a moo point). But with Sexton in Cleveland - Hill might be available

Beverly and Teodosic - have been talked about. But Chandler for one of those guys and Wes Johnson works cap wise and might helpthe Clippers with guaranteed players

CEltics and Rozier - what would it clost to get Rozier from Ainge. Jackson, WArren do not make sense with their glut of forwards.

Finally - the Utah Jazz. They have Nieto and Exum just signed; Rubio is an expiring - would TJ Warren for Ricky Rubio work for the Jazz



those are my teams off the top of my head with PG depth

I think your targets are spot on.

I'd give up the Bucks pick for Rozier (or Kemba). But other then that, I'd only give up a second rounder or two for any of the other guys.

-Rozier for the bucks pick
-Kemba for the bucks pick
-Rubio for a 2nd rounder
-Beverly for a 2nd rounder
-Lin for a 2nd rounder

Only way I give up JJ/TJ/Future pick is if we get Lillad coming back.

[PhxLax]

Read on Twitter

Yup. Pretty much confirms Ariza is your starting SF. This means Warren or Jackson is all but gone for a point guard...I'll put $20 on this. You also get Ryan Anderson to cut salary by 5-million to match Brandon Knight. And you get yourself a solid defensive rookie PG to compete or stash in the G-League.

If what Woj says is correct -- and that a SF is going to be traded for a PG, your opening night roster will look like this. Not too shabby!

G Trade* Shaq Okobo*
G Book Daniels Reed
F Ariza Jackson Bridges*
F Anderson Bender Filler*
C Ayton Holmes Chandler

Notes-

*I know lot of you stick Bridges at SG. I don't see minutes for him there w/ Booker and incoming PG taking up backcourt. With a SF trade, he may play SF/PF way more. Still think he ends up getting no minutes.

*Got Okobo there, but I think Suns carry 4-point guards and alternate Melton and Okobo in and out of the G-League while the mystery-trade PG starts and Shaq Harrison is the direct backup.

*With all said and done, you'll still have a forward slot open. That can be that Jack Cooley guy or George King or Alec Peters, but I think Peters is in Russia now -- so prob some cheap summer filler.

For sure loving this roster now!