2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[KLEON]

I would trade for Tomas Satoransky or Milos

[lilfishi22]

I love Dragic and would love to see him back in a Suns uniform

A couple of things makes me laugh though. This would be the 2nd time we've brought Dragic back if it does happen. We moved Dragic for 2 1st rounders which we turned in Bridges

[TASTIC]

Rozier's the guy who would be perfect but unless we include our own 1st (no!) then I don't see any way we can get him here.

[lilfishi22]

I'd try and get Delon Wright on the cheap, great size and still relatively young at 26. But doubt TOR would want/need Warren with Kawhi there. How about this:

PHX get
Delon Wright
CJ Miles

POR get
TJ Warren

TOR get
Mo Harkless

In hindsight this is likely selling low on TJ, but I just don't see many deals out there that can net us a young-ish starting calibre PG, while also holding onto JJ and Bridges so they can develop and get minutes. Buy out Miles or see if we can flip him for a 2nd...

Of course, I'd have spent the $15m on VanVleet and he'd be our starting PG, but anyway.

Ayton
Anderson
Ariza
Booker
Wright
----
Holmes
Bender
Bridges
JJ
Okobo
Melton
Harrison
Daniels
Chandler
---
King G-League

I'm a fan of Delon Wright. I'd make this trade

[DaleyBlind]

Hope we don’t break the bank for Rozier lol. He is dead set the most overhyped player in the NBA right now.

[Qwigglez]

Would you Wall’s albatross contract?

That guy is a cancer. Now they have other cancers in D12, Morris and Rivers

He isn't a winner either. The guy has gotten by because of his superior talent and uber athleticism, but he doesn't strike me as a hard worker.

[lilfishi22]

I was a huge fan of Wall and have always thought he would be the perfect PG to takeover from a long line of great PG's we've had. But the more I've watched him over the years, he just became less and less the player I thought he would be. While he puts up amazing stats, has all the amazing athleticism and highlights, he hasn't lead the Wizards in WS since his rookie season. Now he's on his supermax deal and with the injury history, I just don't have any interest in the guy any more

[Christine-In-AZ]

Yes, I think we should bring the intrepid PG back to the Suns

Spoiler:

I'm only about half kidding

[TheLogician]

Rozier would be awesome but we're not getting him.

[Stix]

I believe that McD did indeed inquire about the likes of Lillard, Walker, and Rozier, but in the end probably got a polite no on each. There is just no reason for those teams to part ways with those players.

I would love Dragic back here, but I just don't see it unless he demanded it... with the east as wide open as it's ever been, the chance to make the all-star team, and be the man in Miami I don't see why he would want out. The rumors of him being on the block were conjured by phoenix journalists. Miami would also need a starting calibur PG back in return, which we don't currently have.

George Hill seems to be the most likely of the scenarios. He's essentially a huge expiring contract with his money only being 1 mil guaranteed next year, opening up cap space upwards of $40 mil next year. Cavs need to free up minutes for Sexton, and they have a big need at SF now that the King is in Lakerland. With Warren being the odd man out, it's a trade just waiting to happen. Hill is an experienced vet, competent enough to carry the PG reigns for a year, who can knock down an open 3. Just what the doctor ordered IMO. On top of that, he played for Igor before in Utah (where he had arguably his best season).

[NavLDO]

I know this is broken record but what would have made you content with this past offseason? Were there any FA's or players to trade for that would have made you consider this offseason a success (serious question)

I'm OK with where things stand. Going after Leonard would have been too risky.
Ariza has been a winning player nearly his whole career. He is still a really good player and will contribute on this team. He probably doesn't come to Phoenix on a deal for his true value.

I wanted Smart but we would have had to overpay for him and that would have strapped us.
I believe McD is still going after a powerplay. By the end of next year, unless we get the top pick, I expect us to push the chips in and make a big move for someone. If free agents don't want to come here next summer, it means Booker has regressed and that our rookies are garbage. In other words, we have bigger issues to worry about.

Going after a legit PG, since we decided not to keep Payton.

If McD would have shown the same willingness to 'overpay', I believe we would have acquired Lillard, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, or Dinwiddie. but honestly, keeping the player who had a top 12 AP48 last year for $3M might have been smart.

I'll echo your broken record, but EP was NOT our problem last year, and the fact that we gave up on him...choosing to believe he was the player of his last 9 games with us, rather than the player that was his first 10 games with us, was foolish. he proved he could be successful on this team, then hit a slump...either intentional (Tanking) or not, but the faact of the matter is, aall the arguments I see here AGAINST EP, start and end with his final 9-10 games with us, conveniently disregarding the first 7-8 games.

So yes, he did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#291-300-sum:pgl_basic

...but he also did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#282-289-sum:pgl_basic

Only 17.1 Pts/ 7.5 Asst / 7.5 TRB on 49%FG , which included his subpar 29% 3PT shooting, but we knew he had issue with that from the get-go.

Anyway, point is, McD chose to overpay for a slightly above avg 3&D 32YO, when we just drafted a 3&D specialist in the Top10, choosing not to give him an opportunity to prove himself. Apparently you and others believe that was a smart idea, but IMO, we don't even know if Ariza will be helpful or hurtful, and if you don;t think Ariza presents a gamble, then I don;t know what to tell you. 41% FG% and 37% 3PT% are not stellar numbers. A DRtg of 107 and DBPM of .7 are hardly 'eye-popping' numbers.

So, you, but most likely others, will want to point to how he presents more than what the stat line tells you; well, I say that is bogus. Ariza is not 'all that and a bag of chips'. LeBron has his number, and has his entire career. I'm sure the response will be that everyone is susceptible to LeBron embarrassment, and while that is true, my point is, Ariza is nothing special.

Facts

1) Suns were the worst defensive team last year
2) Suns were the worst 3 point shooting team last year
3) Payton was a poor three point shooter and suspect defender
4) Ulis was a terrible defender and poor three point shooter
5) Jackson and Warren are poor three point shooters
6) Ariza is a good three point shooter and a plus defender
7) Bridges is a good three point shooter and a plus defender
8) Knight is a good three point shooter

Simply put McD jettisoned the players that were both poor three point shooters and defenders. He also drafted and signed players that were both good defenders and three point shooters. Players like Rondo would have been a bad get because of his three point shooting. Starting Rondo and Jackson/Warren would have killed spacing for Booker. With more legitimate 3-D players we can now spread the floor and give more room for Booker, Warren, Knight Melton, and Ayton to operate.

FIFY...

I understand what you are saying, but #6 is not a fact, it's an illusion. Go look at his last four seasons. 35.7% from 3. You consider that 'Good' ?? Look at his last three years of DBPM--0.3 , 1.0 , 0.7 with DRtgs of 108 , 108 , 107. Those numbers are not that great. Is that what you consider a 'Plus' defender? Anything over 0.0 DBPM?

#8 is also not a fact...do you really consider his 33.4% 3PT shooting as a Phoenix Sun as proof positive of him being a good 3PT shooter?

Yet, Rondo has shot 35.7% from 3 his past 3 seasons...better than Knight and equal to Ariza; and you were worried about spacing with Rondo??? And not Knight??

So, if you are basing your argument of your so called, 'facts', then you might want to reconsider. I understand your point, and I'm not saying you are totally off-base, but Ariza was not what this team needed with that $15M. That is all I'm saying.

[Gant]

Rozier's the guy who would be perfect but unless we include our own 1st (no!) then I don't see any way we can get him here.

The first rounder might be doable with protection. But is there a protection that would suit both teams?

[Fo-Real]

The Suns wouldn't have traded away the only vet pg on the team without knowing they had something lined up on a targeted guard or having consulted with Igor about his confidence to go forward with Shaq, Ellie and who we have. Hell, Igor might prefer a blank slate pass first pgs like Harrison and okobo, maybe Igor prefers more of a blank slate to mold. Both are pass first, both have great size and strength. Both play dedicated defense, each has his own separate strength, Shaq is a freak athlete and slasher while Elie can shoot it. Maybe instead of wasting assets for a non impact pg ( none available) we may just let it ride and see who shakes out at camps for other teams through camp battles and cuts, technically Cannon is the vet guard on the roster now.

[gaspar]

The Suns wouldn't have traded away the only vet pg on the team without knowing they had something lined up on a targeted guard or having consulted with Igor about his confidence to go forward with Shaq, Ellie and who we have. Hell, Igor might prefer a blank slate pass first pgs like Harrison and okobo, maybe Igor prefers more of a blank slate to mold. Both are pass first, both have great size and strength. Both play dedicated defense, each has his own separate strength, Shaq is a freak athlete and slasher while Elie can shoot it. Maybe instead of wasting assets for a non impact pg ( none available) we may just let it ride and see who shakes out at camps for other teams through camp battles and cuts, technically Cannon is the vet guard on the roster now.

Exactly. If we can get a true difference maker, that's great. If not, just roll with what we have. Don't settle on a garbage vet like George Hill (who BTW was awful on and off the court on a rebuilding team in Sacramento) or Teodosic etc., who won't make a slightest difference this season.

[BobbieL]

I believe that McD did indeed inquire about the likes of Lillard, Walker, and Rozier, but in the end probably got a polite no on each. There is just no reason for those teams to part ways with those players.

I would love Dragic back here, but I just don't see it unless he demanded it... with the east as wide open as it's ever been, the chance to make the all-star team, and be the man in Miami I don't see why he would want out. The rumors of him being on the block were conjured by phoenix journalists. Miami would also need a starting calibur PG back in return, which we don't currently have.

George Hill seems to be the most likely of the scenarios. He's essentially a huge expiring contract with his money only being 1 mil guaranteed next year, opening up cap space upwards of $40 mil next year. Cavs need to free up minutes for Sexton, and they have a big need at SF now that the King is in Lakerland. With Warren being the odd man out, it's a trade just waiting to happen. Hill is an experienced vet, competent enough to carry the PG reigns for a year, who can knock down an open 3. Just what the doctor ordered IMO. On top of that, he played for Igor before in Utah (where he had arguably his best season).

The question for the Cavs is do they want to start getting cap space or would they want Warren over say Rodney Hood. Warren is 4 years 50m. Who know what Hood will be - those his skill set probably has a more all around game to it than Warren.

You are right -- they would want to get Sexton minutes but at the same time, not totally tanking I don't think.

You trade Warren for HIll if you want more cap space next summer.

[Djedefre]

I think Teo would be dirt cheap. We won't have to give away anything special, but he'll certainly be just a placeholder until we hit the FA next year. Beverley will cost more, but i'm not exactly sure how'd he look on the floor from now on. On top of that, he really is just average at best if we talk starting PG. Guys like Wright and McConnell are very questionable as starter material. For Dinwiddie and Brogdon price would be too high for what you're getting.

Lillard is a pipe dream, Boston will never trade Rozier until they're certain Irving stays, Hornets have zero interest in trading Kemba this early. Same goes for Utah/Rubio.

So, i think reality says -it's Dragon or no 1.

[Fo-Real]

I think Teo would be dirt cheap. We won't have to give away anything special, but he'll certainly be just a placeholder until we hit the FA next year. Beverley will cost more, but i'm not exactly sure how'd he look on the floor from now on. On top of that, he really is just average at best if we talk starting PG. Guys like Wright and McConnell are very questionable as starter material. For Dinwiddie and Brogdon price would be too high for what you're getting.

Lillard is a pipe dream, Boston will never trade Rozier until they're certain Irving stays, Hornets have zero interest in trading Kemba this early. Same goes for Utah/Rubio.

So, i think reality says -it's Dragon or no 1.

Yep, just no getable targets that would make a difference for tge price we are willing to pay. Push on, watch others pg situations in and after camp. See who gets beat out and who becomes possibly disgruntled. Have faith in the abilities in the guards we have and the coaches ability to only put them in situations that are best for them. We have facilitator defender guards witch plays right into the games of Booker, Ayton and the shooters we have (Bender, Anderson, Bridges, Ariza, Reed, Daniel's), along with the slashers ( Warren, Jackson, Holmes). See what we have with Melton.

[BobbieL]

I think Teo would be dirt cheap. We won't have to give away anything special, but he'll certainly be just a placeholder until we hit the FA next year. Beverley will cost more, but i'm not exactly sure how'd he look on the floor from now on. On top of that, he really is just average at best if we talk starting PG. Guys like Wright and McConnell are very questionable as starter material. For Dinwiddie and Brogdon price would be too high for what you're getting.

Lillard is a pipe dream, Boston will never trade Rozier until they're certain Irving stays, Hornets have zero interest in trading Kemba this early. Same goes for Utah/Rubio.

So, i think reality says -it's Dragon or no 1.

I think the price for Teo will be having to pay off Boban or Wesley Johnson, probably Boban because Tyson Chandler will be going to the Clippers. I don't see the Clippers trading Teo for say Daniels. I think they will want to move two bodies for one and the math with Chandler for Teo and either Boban or Wes works out cap wise .

Goran - just depends on how Riley wants to go about the rebuild. Cap wise - they are pretty locked in for the summer of 2019 already unless they can move two contracts and even that would be cutting it close - but if they moved say Goran and Waiters or James Johnson or Olynyk - they would have some cap space. The Suns if they trade for Goran are basically limiting free agent moves in the summer of 2019 and beyond so if /GOran happens - as I have stated - I am thinking a second contract is coming if Riley starts to rebuild and Okobo or Melton to the Heat.

[Fo-Real]

The idea that Dragic is available really makes no sense unless we are taking back another huge contract with him (Whiteside) while they get a decent Pg back and we don't have the asset.

[Kerrsed]

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