RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#17 2018-19

[iggymcfrack]

If you put Draymond and Ben Simmons on separate, equally terrible teams which guy's team wins more games?

Really hard to say without knowing team construction. Simmons could struggle a lot without shooters around him. I think it’s probably a toss-up. On a playoff team, I’d prefer Draymond for sure though.

[Luigi]

Yep, pretty easily.

I think I'd take Thompson over Green on most NBA rosters.

Thompson would be effective next to virtually anyone. Green's dependence on the Warriors is overestimated, but its hard to deny that his skills fit in so well there. Much like Rodman next to Pippen and Jordan.

I'd say the opposite. Any team could use a playmaking 4 who can defend 4 positions at a high level and be DPOY. It's similar to Gobert vs Danny Green, but a lesser extent. One's a shooter who can defend pretty well, one's an elite defender. Dray's better than Rudy offensively though, but Klay's better than Green on that end.

Green is a great player, so I agree that they could use him. But I don't think they'd use him as well as he is currently.

I doubt he sees any all star consideration on the majority of other NBA rosters. It's easier to be a playmaker when he's passing to Curry, Thompson, and now Durant. Most of what he does is made a lot easier by the unique GSW roster and brand of basketball. He'd still do Draymond stuff on another team, but it wouldn't be that important to the team's overall success. And his contribution to team success, I think, is his best selling point here. Thompson can make his case independently.

[Filthadelphia]

We have debates all the time in various threads over who is better so I thought what better time than summer to see where the General Board lies in its view of the top 25 best players.

I'll update each new poll with the rankings of the last and the percentages of who won.
There's only 10 options per poll so new options will be added as we get lower and lower.

Lets come to a consensus. Feel free to comment who you voted for and why.

If you think someone else should be in the poll who is not there please comment and i'll adjust accordingly.

alessandrux wrote:
I would appreciate it if you can state clearly the procedure.

We vote daily(?) the best player among those who are remaining (and in the poll)?
And after each day, you remove said best voted player, list him as the next best player on our bestlist and start a new poll with the remaining players?

From your players I would replace Irving with Embiid

These are the procedures, yes. Every winner will be removed and then a new entrant will be included on the next poll.

Winner of Poll #16: Kyrie Irving (BOS)-37%

RealGM Top 25 Players 2018-19:
1) LeBron James (LAL)-72%
2) Kevin Durant (GSW)-39%
3) Stephen Curry (GSW)-53%
4) Anthony Davis (NOP)-39%
5) James Harden (HOU)-45%
6) Kawhi Leonard (TOR)-50%
7) Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL)-56%
8) Russell Westbrook (OKC)-47%
9) Chris Paul (HOU)-43%
10) Jimmy Butler (MIN)-33%
11) Joel Embiid (PHI)-37%
12) Nikola Jokic (DEN)-32%
13) Victor Oladipo (IND)-31%
14) Rudy Gobert (UTA)-62%-TIEBREAKER w Kyrie Irving (BOS)
15) Damian Lillard (POR)-32%
16) Kyrie Irving (BOS)-37%

Added to Poll: LaMarcus Aldridge (SAS)

New System Alert: Vote for who you want in the poll but in order to add new people COMMENT IN THE THREAD.
For example, if you want Marc Gasol added next just comment "Marc Gasol" or "Gasol" and i'll tally up the votes and add whoever is the most popular.
ONLY VOTE ONE NAME PER THREAD

Feel free to leave other comments as usual.
Thanks for your participation so far everyone!

This is the yet-to-be-added field: (If someone is not here that you want here comment THAT and I will add them)
-Al Horford (BOS)
-Gordon Hayward (BOS)
-Jayson Tatum (BOS)
-Kristaps Porzingis (NYK)
-Kevin Love (CLE)
-Blake Griffin (DET)
-Andre Drummond (DET)
-Khris Middleton (MIL)
-Kemba Walker (CHA)
-Bradley Beal (WAS)
-CJ McCollum (POR)
-Donovan Mitchell (UTA)
-Clint Capela (HOU)
-Steven Adams (OKC)
-Marc Gasol (MEM)
-Jrue Holiday (NOP)
-Devin Booker (PHX)
-Brandon Ingram (LAL)
-Isaiah Thomas (DEN)

Link to last poll: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1744430

you cant lose a tie breaker at 14 to end up 16th. you must end up 15th.

If there's a runoff in an election and the one candidate loses that runoff does that entitle that candidate to the position forgoing the next election?

[picc]

Do you all think Draymond Green is better than Klay Thompson?

Yes.

He's better than a number of players that have gone already.

[Luigi]

Do you all think Draymond Green is better than Klay Thompson?

Yes.

He's better than a number of players that have gone already.

I think Thompson is better than a number of players that have already gone.

Why do you think Green is better than Thompson?

[Tai]

I definitely think Green benefits more from Klay than vice versa.

[iggymcfrack]

Dray vs. KD is a much closer question than Dray vs. Klay.

[Luigi]

I definitely think Green benefits more from Klay than vice versa.

Thompson's skill set makes him crazy transportable. He defends well, and he scores without the ball in his hands. He's probably the ultimate #2 option. Of course, when you have two #1 options, things are different (Curry and Durant).

I'm surprised people are going for the glue guy over the other splash brother, here.

[Luigi]

Dray vs. KD is a much better comparison than Dray vs. Klay.

I can't take that seriously.

[rcc8884]

Add Gordon Hayward. I think him being injured last year has made everyone forget just how good he is

[VanWest82]

If you put Draymond and Ben Simmons on separate, equally terrible teams which guy's team wins more games?

Really hard to say without knowing team construction. Simmons could struggle a lot without shooters around him. I think it’s probably a toss-up. On a playoff team, I’d prefer Draymond for sure though.

I agree with Dray > Ben on a random playoff team. Presumably you have a really good creator already on the roster if you're a playoff team. Less likely you have a DPOY.

I think Simmons is easily the choice on a crap team though, even if it's the Magic and no one can shoot.

[VanWest82]

If you put Draymond and Ben Simmons on separate, equally terrible teams which guy's team wins more games?

Depends a lot on the composition of the team.

Thompson, on the other hand, doesn't depend so much on the composition of the team. He's probably the most portable player in the league behind Lebron.

Klay is definitely a player that every team can use. Say it's the Kings though. Even though Klay would be a better fit, Simmons would probably help them win more games. That has to mean something.

[iggymcfrack]

Dray vs. KD is a much better comparison than Dray vs. Klay.

I can't take that seriously.

I know RPM’s not everything and KD would probably have more value relative to Dray in a different environment, but here are their RPMs the last 4 years:

2014/15
Dray: 6.80
KD: 4.20
Klay: 3.64

2015/16
Dray: 8.97
KD: 6.98
Klay: 1.77

2016/17
Dray: 7.14
KD: 5.74
Klay: 2.33

2017/18
Dray: 4.04
KD: 3.61
Klay: 1.81

That’s actually 4 years in a row that Dray’s had a better RPM than Durant. He’s a better playmaker, a better rebounder, and a much better defender. I’d still take KD, but I can see a legitimate argument the other way. Klay just isn’t in their class in terms of impact.

[mefromthefuture]

KAT

[bondom34]

I think I'd take Thompson over Green on most NBA rosters.

Thompson would be effective next to virtually anyone. Green's dependence on the Warriors is overestimated, but its hard to deny that his skills fit in so well there. Much like Rodman next to Pippen and Jordan.

I'd say the opposite. Any team could use a playmaking 4 who can defend 4 positions at a high level and be DPOY. It's similar to Gobert vs Danny Green, but a lesser extent. One's a shooter who can defend pretty well, one's an elite defender. Dray's better than Rudy offensively though, but Klay's better than Green on that end.

Green is a great player, so I agree that they could use him. But I don't think they'd use him as well as he is currently.

I doubt he sees any all star consideration on the majority of other NBA rosters. It's easier to be a playmaker when he's passing to Curry, Thompson, and now Durant. Most of what he does is made a lot easier by the unique GSW roster and brand of basketball. He'd still do Draymond stuff on another team, but it wouldn't be that important to the team's overall success. And his contribution to team success, I think, is his best selling point here. Thompson can make his case independently.

Just to use the pre Durant team, in 2016 lineups without Curry and with Green were better than those without Green and with Curry. Those guys aren't carrying him, he needs just a little offensive talent and can carry an elite team. Klay needs playmakers and defenders at a pretty constant basis. As an opposing fan I'd much rather Green on my team than Klay.

And on a basis of more impact, I'd agree with iggy that Dray's impact is well above Durant's. And really, that's all I care about in a team sport.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Hallelujah the Kyrie stuff is over. No more will we be subject to silly complaints about voter rolls.

[picc]

Do you all think Draymond Green is better than Klay Thompson?

Yes.

He's better than a number of players that have gone already.

I think Thompson is better than a number of players that have already gone.

Why do you think Green is better than Thompson?

Because he impacts the game on both ends on a more consistently elite level than Thompson does. And we have evidence that not only is his playmaking proficiency not a product of playing with Stephen Curry (or Durant), but that it actually improves with Curry out of the lineup.

In the '15 and '16 seasons, Green's averaged 7 assists per game in games Curry didn't play in. And that's in the regular season. In the '16 playoffs, Green was averaging 8apg in the Warriors first 7 games sans Curry, before Steph's return in game 4 of round 2.

Green had less than 7 assists in only three games through the first 9 games of the '16 playoffs. Those three games were the ones Curry made appearances in.

Green's averages in the seven games Steph sat out completely were 18/8/11 on 53% TS.

Add DPOY-caliber defense (that translates to the perimeter as well as the paint, unlike Rudy Gobert) to that, and you have a high-level all-star, if not flat out superstar, producing for your team on an all-around level Klay Thompson does not.

Green's impact stats (RPM/RAPM) also blow Thompson's away. There's more of an argument for who is more important to GS between Green and Curry than there is between Green and Klay. Draymond would add more wins to your average playoff team than quite a few of the players already selected, nevermind the guys still on the poll.

Saying that, my vote is now for Derozan.

[Prez]

Yes.

He's better than a number of players that have gone already.

I think Thompson is better than a number of players that have already gone.

Why do you think Green is better than Thompson?

Because he impacts the game on both ends on a more consistently elite level than Thompson does. And we have evidence that not only is his playmaking proficiency not a product of playing with Stephen Curry (or Durant), but that it actually improves with Curry out of the lineup.

In the '15 and '16 seasons, Green's averaged 7 assists per game in games Curry didn't play in. And that's in the regular season. In the '16 playoffs, Green was averaging 8apg in the Warriors first 7 games sans Curry, before Steph's return in game 4 of round 2.

Green had less than 7 assists in only three games through the first 9 games of the '16 playoffs. Those three games were the ones Curry made appearances in.

Green's averages in the seven games Steph sat out completely were 18/8/11 on 53% TS.

Add DPOY-caliber defense (that translates to the perimeter as well as the paint, unlike Rudy Gobert) to that, and you have a high-level all-star, if not flat out superstar, producing for your team on an all-around level Klay Thompson does not.

Green's impact stats (RPM/RAPM) also blow Thompson's away. There's more of an argument for who is more important to GS between Green and Curry than there is between Green and Klay. Draymond would add more wins to your average playoff team than quite a few of the players already selected, nevermind the guys still on the poll.

Saying that, my vote is now for Derozan.

I agree with most of your post, but I don't understand how you can value impact like that but also vote for Derozan here.

[Luigi]

And on a basis of more impact, I'd agree with iggy that Dray's impact is well above Durant's. And really, that's all I care about in a team sport.

Because he impacts the game on both ends on a more consistently elite level than Thompson does. And we have evidence that not only is his playmaking proficiency not a product of playing with Stephen Curry (or Durant), but that it actually improves with Curry out of the lineup.

I can appreciate the impact arguments. My main concern was how much can be attributed to Green himself, and how much depends on the situation he finds himself in on the Warriors greatest of all time ball sharing offense. He's a large part of that. But I think he's getting all of the credit for it rather than his due share.

I've been making a transportability argument to show Thompson's value. And I'd bet that on that metric, we'd see him do better. I doubt GSW is gonna keep both after this year, so we might get a look at one of them out in the cold. I'll be watching closely if it happens.

[bondom34]

And on a basis of more impact, I'd agree with iggy that Dray's impact is well above Durant's. And really, that's all I care about in a team sport.

Because he impacts the game on both ends on a more consistently elite level than Thompson does. And we have evidence that not only is his playmaking proficiency not a product of playing with Stephen Curry (or Durant), but that it actually improves with Curry out of the lineup.

I can appreciate the impact arguments. My main concern was how much can be attributed to Green himself, and how much depends on the situation he finds himself in on the Warriors greatest of all time ball sharing offense. He's a large part of that. But I think he's getting all of the credit for it rather than his due share.

I've been making a transportability argument to show Thompson's value. And I'd bet that on that metric, we'd see him do better. I doubt GSW is gonna keep both after this year, so we might get a look at one of them out in the cold. I'll be watching closely if it happens.

I hope they let Dray go, but as noted they've been better with him on court with nobody than anything, which should refute the idea he's a system guy. I was adamant that was the case years ago but having seen the evidence at some point after about 2016 I couldn't argue it.