2018-19 Atlanta Hawks Defense Thread

[Roy Tarpley]

Sorry if there is already a thread devoted to this topic. I couldn't find one so mods, please merge if necessary.

There's a great article on PTH about Pierce's tenure on the Sixers and how they fared defensively. https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/9/3/17792744/lloyd-pierce-atlanta-hawks-head-coach-defense-philadelphia-76ers-journey-video-breakdown-success

In summary, it seemed to show that the Sixers did well defensively when they had good defensive players (e.g., last year, when they had Embiid, Covington, Simmons). But the article didn't do a similar analysis of the Hawks' defensive capabilities.

I'm not a longtime Hawks fan so I can't make any assessments off the eye test. Going by Drtg and DBPM, Collins, Dedmon, and Bazemore seem like above average defensive players, while Prince seems average (with potential to be good since he was above average his rookie year). Trae and Lin would probably be below average. But when I posted this on PTH, one commenter said that Bazemore and Prince are the only good defensive players and LOLed at the notion of Dedmon and Collins being above average.

Can folks on here provide their thoughts on the defensive talents of the Hawks starters and main rotation players?

I feel like Pierce has the defensive talent to make the Hawks a good defensive team.

[jayu70]

I'll only speak to existing Hawks:
Bazemore is the best defensive player.
Prince can be good when he wants to be - he has all the tools but can get lazy as a team defender sometimes.
Bembry is special on defense, he just has not been able to stay healthy and if he can't fix his jumper he may not be long for this Hawks team.
Collins struggled as a rookie, fouling a lot the first part of the season. He wasn't as horrible as the predraft writeup said he was. All I can say is he improved throughout the season and he's a willing defender.
Dedmon has his moments on defense, he's solid.

[Robo_Claw]

I'll only speak to existing Hawks:
Bazemore is the best defensive player.
Prince can be good when he wants to be - he has all the tools but can get lazy as a team defender sometimes.
Bembry is special on defense, he just has not been able to stay healthy and if he can't fix his jumper he may not be long for this Hawks team.
Collins struggled as a rookie, fouling a lot the first part of the season. He wasn't as horrible as the predraft writeup said he was. All I can say is he improved throughout the season and he's a willing defender.
Dedmon has his moments on defense, he's solid.

Collins seems like a smart player, I bet though all the fouls last year he’s been learning how much he can get away with this year and show some serious improvement.

[Roy Tarpley]

OK, it seems like there is consensus that Bazemore is the best defensive player.

Dedmon has a career DBPM of 1.7 and career DRtg of 103, which seems above average.

Collins had a DBPM of 1.9 last year, also above average.

[jayu70]

OK, it seems like there is consensus that Bazemore is the best defensive player.

Dedmon has a career DBPM of 1.7 and career DRtg of 103, which seems above average.

Collins had a DBPM of 1.9 last year, also above average.

I can only believe what my lying eyes tell me what I see on the court.

[reazun]

Sorry if there is already a thread devoted to this topic. I couldn't find one so mods, please merge if necessary.

There's a great article on PTH about Pierce's tenure on the Sixers and how they fared defensively. https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/9/3/17792744/lloyd-pierce-atlanta-hawks-head-coach-defense-philadelphia-76ers-journey-video-breakdown-success

In summary, it seemed to show that the Sixers did well defensively when they had good defensive players (e.g., last year, when they had Embiid, Covington, Simmons). But the article didn't do a similar analysis of the Hawks' defensive capabilities.

I'm not a longtime Hawks fan so I can't make any assessments off the eye test. Going by Drtg and DBPM, Collins, Dedmon, and Bazemore seem like above average defensive players, while Prince seems average (with potential to be good since he was above average his rookie year). Trae and Lin would probably be below average. But when I posted this on PTH, one commenter said that Bazemore and Prince are the only good defensive players and LOLed at the notion of Dedmon and Collins being above average.

Can folks on here provide their thoughts on the defensive talents of the Hawks starters and main rotation players?

I feel like Pierce has the defensive talent to make the Hawks a good defensive team.

Lin is a better defender than what he gets credit for. He is not the same as he was during his Linsanity NYC days.

https://www.netsdaily.com/2016/9/15/12926538/steve-clifford-hornets-will-miss-jeremy-lin-on-defense

[Roy Tarpley]

Sorry if there is already a thread devoted to this topic. I couldn't find one so mods, please merge if necessary.

There's a great article on PTH about Pierce's tenure on the Sixers and how they fared defensively. https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/9/3/17792744/lloyd-pierce-atlanta-hawks-head-coach-defense-philadelphia-76ers-journey-video-breakdown-success

In summary, it seemed to show that the Sixers did well defensively when they had good defensive players (e.g., last year, when they had Embiid, Covington, Simmons). But the article didn't do a similar analysis of the Hawks' defensive capabilities.

I'm not a longtime Hawks fan so I can't make any assessments off the eye test. Going by Drtg and DBPM, Collins, Dedmon, and Bazemore seem like above average defensive players, while Prince seems average (with potential to be good since he was above average his rookie year). Trae and Lin would probably be below average. But when I posted this on PTH, one commenter said that Bazemore and Prince are the only good defensive players and LOLed at the notion of Dedmon and Collins being above average.

Can folks on here provide their thoughts on the defensive talents of the Hawks starters and main rotation players?

I feel like Pierce has the defensive talent to make the Hawks a good defensive team.

Lin is a better defender than what he gets credit for. He is not the same as he was during his Linsanity NYC days.

https://www.netsdaily.com/2016/9/15/12926538/steve-clifford-hornets-will-miss-jeremy-lin-on-defense

Yeah, I've followed Lin for his entire career. His career DRtg is 107 and his career DBPM is -0.4, which makes him about an average to slightly-below average defender. He's certainly underrated. But since he's coming off the horrible injury, it's probably safe to assume that he will not have gotten better on defense. So I'll categorize him as below average on defense for right now.

[reazun]

Sorry if there is already a thread devoted to this topic. I couldn't find one so mods, please merge if necessary.

There's a great article on PTH about Pierce's tenure on the Sixers and how they fared defensively. https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2018/9/3/17792744/lloyd-pierce-atlanta-hawks-head-coach-defense-philadelphia-76ers-journey-video-breakdown-success

In summary, it seemed to show that the Sixers did well defensively when they had good defensive players (e.g., last year, when they had Embiid, Covington, Simmons). But the article didn't do a similar analysis of the Hawks' defensive capabilities.

I'm not a longtime Hawks fan so I can't make any assessments off the eye test. Going by Drtg and DBPM, Collins, Dedmon, and Bazemore seem like above average defensive players, while Prince seems average (with potential to be good since he was above average his rookie year). Trae and Lin would probably be below average. But when I posted this on PTH, one commenter said that Bazemore and Prince are the only good defensive players and LOLed at the notion of Dedmon and Collins being above average.

Can folks on here provide their thoughts on the defensive talents of the Hawks starters and main rotation players?

I feel like Pierce has the defensive talent to make the Hawks a good defensive team.

Lin is a better defender than what he gets credit for. He is not the same as he was during his Linsanity NYC days.

https://www.netsdaily.com/2016/9/15/12926538/steve-clifford-hornets-will-miss-jeremy-lin-on-defense

Yeah, I've followed Lin for his entire career. His career DRtg is 107 and his career DBPM is -0.4, which makes him about an average to slightly-below average defender. He's certainly underrated. But since he's coming off the horrible injury, it's probably safe to assume that he will not have gotten better on defense. So I'll categorize him as below average on defense for right now.

That makes sense

Sent from my SM-G930P using RealGM mobile app

[Jamaaliver]

As a side note, whycome people don't give Woody credit for touting the switching defenses thing that somehow Kerr is getting all this credit for doing now?

Because we kept losing in the playoffs as a result of other teams forcing Bibby to switch onto the guy with the ball.

^From an old conversation earlier this year...


Is this a defensive concern moving forward with Young Trae on the floor? Teams will undoubtedly target him on the defensive end. Can we overcome it?


Will we need dominant wing defenders to offset Trae's defensive deficiencies?

[MaceCase]

The downfall to Woody's gameplan was he switched everything which allowed the opposing offense to dial up whatever matchup they wanted every time. Yea, Trae will be caught in some unfavorable matchups but I can't fathom the consistency of a Bibby on Pierce scenario.

[kg01]

As a side note, whycome people don't give Woody credit for touting the switching defenses thing that somehow Kerr is getting all this credit for doing now?

Because we kept losing in the playoffs as a result of other teams forcing Bibby to switch onto the guy with the ball.

^From an old conversation earlier this year...


Is this a defensive concern moving forward with Young Trae on the floor? Teams will undoubtedly target him on the defensive end. Can we overcome it?


Will we need dominant wing defenders to offset Trae's defensive deficiencies?

Hey, why you diggin up old schtuff?

The downfall to switching defenses is if the team is unwilling to not switch in certain scenarios. Kinda like how, in the Finals, Lebron willfully switched into bad matchups for the Cavs just 'cause.

[Jamaaliver]

Hey, why you diggin up old schtuff?

Cause, you know--I'm the gravedigger.

[kg01]

Hey, why you diggin up old schtuff?

Cause, you know--I'm the gravedigger.

I think you've gone (L)insane, @jamallll. They shouldn'tve let you out of the joint when they did.

[ChokeFasncists]

Maybe LP can study how Brad Stevens get the Celtics to play very good D with IT starting.

[jayu70]

Maybe LP can study how Brad Stevens get the Celtics to play very good D with IT starting.

They had bulldogs on defense that didn't have an offensive load: Bradley, Crowder, Smart

Edit: Bazemore, Bembry (if he can get healthy) and Prince (If he really locks in) and Anderson is a good grouping of defensive wings.

[Jamaaliver]

Maybe LP can study how Brad Stevens get the Celtics to play very good D with IT starting.

They had bulldogs on defense that didn't have an offensive load: Bradley, Crowder, Smart

Very good point. Though, I think you're (intentionally?) missing one key player.

Spoiler:

Isaiah Thomas’ defense is a problem the Celtics must keep hiding

Even Thomas admits he’s not the best defender. How does Boston compensate?

Boston has actually been better defensively while playing Thomas [in the first round of the playoffs].

With Thomas on the floor, the Celtics sport a 102.8 defensive rating, something that plummets to 112.5 when Thomas is sitting down.

What might be happening is how the Celtics are playing Thomas. Seven of the eight most played five-man units involving Thomas have also included Avery Bradley, Al Horford, and either Marcus Smart or Jae Crowder. All four are excellent defenders, and that puts them in position to cover for Thomas if he needs the help.

SB Nation -- April 2017

The Boston Celtics' Al Horford Conundrum

Because of the way the Celtics construct their defense, Horford is not just the last man between the opposition and the rim; he's an active participant in a versatile, switch-happy scheme that requires everyone on the floor to be comfortable guarding multiple positions. His light, quick feet allow him to deftly maneuver in space, corralling ball-handlers before scampering back to his man, but also picking them up outright and challenging them on their way to the basket.

Vice Sports -- April 2017

Absence of Al Horford Shows His Defensive Value To Boston

The lack of a defensive anchor in the post as the final stages of the game unraveled proved deadly for Boston. This allowed Bledsoe to carve apart the Celtics defense over the final few possessions of the contest.

With Horford situated into the game, this lapse does not occur. Horford provides the Celtics with the luxury of being able to take advantage of utilizing a small-ball lineup without forcing their players into defensive mismatches. Without having Horford man the paint as a rim protector, Rozier was forced to remain with the roll man so as not to provide Bledsoe with an open target to feed it to inside.

Hardwood Houdini - March 2017

[jayu70]

Maybe LP can study how Brad Stevens get the Celtics to play very good D with IT starting.

They had bulldogs on defense that didn't have an offensive load: Bradley, Crowder, Smart

Very good point. Though, I think you're (intentionally?) missing one key player.

Spoiler:

Isaiah Thomas’ defense is a problem the Celtics must keep hiding

Even Thomas admits he’s not the best defender. How does Boston compensate?

Boston has actually been better defensively while playing Thomas [in the first round of the playoffs].

With Thomas on the floor, the Celtics sport a 102.8 defensive rating, something that plummets to 112.5 when Thomas is sitting down.

What might be happening is how the Celtics are playing Thomas. Seven of the eight most played five-man units involving Thomas have also included Avery Bradley, Al Horford, and either Marcus Smart or Jae Crowder. All four are excellent defenders, and that puts them in position to cover for Thomas if he needs the help.

SB Nation -- April 2017

The Boston Celtics' Al Horford Conundrum

Because of the way the Celtics construct their defense, Horford is not just the last man between the opposition and the rim; he's an active participant in a versatile, switch-happy scheme that requires everyone on the floor to be comfortable guarding multiple positions. His light, quick feet allow him to deftly maneuver in space, corralling ball-handlers before scampering back to his man, but also picking them up outright and challenging them on their way to the basket.

Vice Sports -- April 2017

Absence of Al Horford Shows His Defensive Value To Boston

The lack of a defensive anchor in the post as the final stages of the game unraveled proved deadly for Boston. This allowed Bledsoe to carve apart the Celtics defense over the final few possessions of the contest.

With Horford situated into the game, this lapse does not occur. Horford provides the Celtics with the luxury of being able to take advantage of utilizing a small-ball lineup without forcing their players into defensive mismatches. Without having Horford man the paint as a rim protector, Rozier was forced to remain with the roll man so as not to provide Bledsoe with an open target to feed it to inside.

Hardwood Houdini - March 2017

I was focusing on wing players that can switch/help to guard PGs.

[ChokeFasncists]

Maybe LP can study how Brad Stevens get the Celtics to play very good D with IT starting.

They had bulldogs on defense that didn't have an offensive load: Bradley, Crowder, Smart

Edit: Bazemore, Bembry (if he can get healthy) and Prince (If he really locks in) and Anderson is a good grouping of defensive wings.

No kidding, perfect partner with Bradley.

Lin did that for Kemba as well. He just gotta stay healthy.

[ChokeFasncists]

Maybe LP can study how Brad Stevens get the Celtics to play very good D with IT starting.

They had bulldogs on defense that didn't have an offensive load: Bradley, Crowder, Smart

Very good point. Though, I think you're (intentionally?) missing one key player.

Spoiler:

Isaiah Thomas’ defense is a problem the Celtics must keep hiding

Even Thomas admits he’s not the best defender. How does Boston compensate?

Boston has actually been better defensively while playing Thomas [in the first round of the playoffs].

With Thomas on the floor, the Celtics sport a 102.8 defensive rating, something that plummets to 112.5 when Thomas is sitting down.

What might be happening is how the Celtics are playing Thomas. Seven of the eight most played five-man units involving Thomas have also included Avery Bradley, Al Horford, and either Marcus Smart or Jae Crowder. All four are excellent defenders, and that puts them in position to cover for Thomas if he needs the help.

SB Nation -- April 2017

The Boston Celtics' Al Horford Conundrum

Because of the way the Celtics construct their defense, Horford is not just the last man between the opposition and the rim; he's an active participant in a versatile, switch-happy scheme that requires everyone on the floor to be comfortable guarding multiple positions. His light, quick feet allow him to deftly maneuver in space, corralling ball-handlers before scampering back to his man, but also picking them up outright and challenging them on their way to the basket.

Vice Sports -- April 2017

Absence of Al Horford Shows His Defensive Value To Boston

The lack of a defensive anchor in the post as the final stages of the game unraveled proved deadly for Boston. This allowed Bledsoe to carve apart the Celtics defense over the final few possessions of the contest.

With Horford situated into the game, this lapse does not occur. Horford provides the Celtics with the luxury of being able to take advantage of utilizing a small-ball lineup without forcing their players into defensive mismatches. Without having Horford man the paint as a rim protector, Rozier was forced to remain with the roll man so as not to provide Bledsoe with an open target to feed it to inside.

Hardwood Houdini - March 2017

Is there a guy like that on the roster?

[graymule]

Defense will be taught by our defensive minded head coach.