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2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1941 » by bwgood77 » Thu Sep 6, 2018 9:03 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Do national writers just automatically question and sometimes bash suns moves simply because it's the suns making them? Yeah for sure. But honestly until the suns prove then wrong I can't blame them. The bottom line is the suns have been bad and made bad moves for a while now.

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A lot of these moves that many of us eventually come around on question at first too because they feel like head scratchers....national people obviously have no incentive to come around if they see something as a head scratcher.

I liked the recent trade from the minute it happened. The Bridges trade was kind of a head scratcher but I loved Bridges so ultimately I was happy about it...can understand both viewpoints. The Ariza signing was a head scratcher too, especially after the Bridges trade, but the good thing is I like Ariza and I think having a big one year expiring deal was smart.

I have heard some national guys on podcasts though say they loved that the Suns added Bridges and they thought the Ariza signing was great. I mean ultimately they are better two way players...actually already better shooters and better defenders than Jackson or Warren. Not are they only better at one or the other but probably better at both things. Bridges remains to be seen but he already comes in with more experience than Jackson, being a 4 year guy, but of course without the NBA level..but Jackson wasn't a plus defender by any stretch as a rookie.


With the Bridges deal I think the only real backlash was because that announcement had just been made that 1 and done might go away in 2021 so when Phily got that pick it was still fresh on their minds. Well now it looks like it won't happen that year so I would guess some of that reaction would be different.

The Anderson/Knight deal reaction was kind of a timing thing. Hell if that deal goes down in a busy time like 7/1 it barely gets mentioned and is viewed for what it is a minor deal where two teams moved things they no longer wanted. But since it was last week in the deadest time of the year people had 'takes' on it. Honestly I've seen a mix of takes on that one including some national guys who LOVE Melton.

In general there are some haters like Amin Elhassen who will bash ANY move the Suns make but I guess you also have a guy like Kevin O'Connor who is camping on the Suns are going to get good quickly so he has a vested interest in liking their moves.

But again I think the random writer has some legitimate reason to question the decision making of this franchise.

Yes; Bobbie people killed the Warriors leading up to their run. Rightfully so. People also forget they had one of the most blatant tank jobs of this decade the year they drafted Barnes; that pick was protected and they did everything imaginable to keep it.


I would probably very rarely trade an unprotected pick, and usually only for a star level player, but Bridges was one of my favorite players in the draft, and I think he projects as a starter. Ultimately he's the perfect 3 next to Booker. But of course there are the questions of are other wings. If he becomes the starting 3 next to Booker and does what he is projected to do and become a high quality starter like I expect he can, then it's a fine trade. But we still may have traded away a future #1 pick in a draft with a star in it too...there is obviously just that risk with trading away unprotected picks, which is probably why I wouldn't do it that easily.

But of course there is the problem that we have 3 other wings that would probably like to start who are probably all more likely to start than him. Which is fine right now since he is a rookie just coming in but if we traded it away just for a bench player who doesn't get many minutes than it seems like kind of a waste. Then I don't think Jackson or Warren particularly have much trade value so I don't think I'd trade them.

Having a deep rotation is good though, because you are likely to have injuries, etc, and we have a lot of guys on rookie contracts so it's not costly.

Amin Elhassan isn't worth paying attention to. It is nice that Kevin O'Connor seems to write a bit about the Suns, kind of feels like he is a fan. Almost same with Sam Vecenie.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1942 » by BobbieL » Thu Sep 6, 2018 9:12 pm

I don't mind critical - I do not like lazy. Amin Elh-ASSS-an is just hating to hate now. He is not worth listening to for any take on basketball - even if not the Suns as his opinion to me is crap.

I mean, most on this board are more critical of the Suns than most in the media as we are close to it.

Overall, I am good with the moves so far - but still would like a PG thats for sure. But if not, Shaq, Okobo - will be showing the wizardy, if he has any of Igor.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1943 » by Years90Suns » Thu Sep 6, 2018 9:51 pm

MathiasPW wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
Booker/Melton/Okobo/Canaan
Jackson/Bridges/Daniels/Reed
Ariza/Warren/Bridges
Anderson/Bender
Ayton/Holmes/Chandler

In a line-up like that i believe our weakest position is PF and would look to maybe package Chandler with Warren and/or Canaan and see if we can improve there. I still think Tobias Harris would have been a great pick up for us at PF and should be a realistic FA target for us next offseason.


In this era of perimeter-oriented, positionless basketball, Power Forward is the function that got affected the most, as the other position for bigs (C) at least still has a paint-job on the defensive side.

PFs now are basically just a 3rd wing who defends mostly at the perimeter, and, voila, we have a bunch of them.


Agree.
I believe we can play Ayton (or Chandler) and Warren/Jackson/Ariza. Especially Warren can play together with any of the other two. Ayton should offer rim protection and should benefit from spaces inside the paint.
If we play Anderson, we should then try to play Chandler, who is much better defensively than Ayton.
The key here is Warren. If he has increased his three point accuracy, he canbe the difference.
I do not think Ariza and Jackson can effedtively defend the PF position. But we have Anderson, Warren and Bender.

If this season developes as many hope it could develope, by this time next year we could be a trade away from being a really solid team that plays really modern basketball.
By then we could be forced to think about trading JJ and a pick for a established PG.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1944 » by LukasBMW » Thu Sep 6, 2018 10:15 pm

We are making the young guys EARN time at every position. It doesn't make sense that we would just hand the keys over to our two rookie PG's and our D-league experiment.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1945 » by TASTIC » Thu Sep 6, 2018 10:33 pm

Good clutter-clearing move:

Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for George Hill, done. CLE embraces Sexton at the 1 fully and get 2 good vets who can spread the floor in Arthur and Daniels, who are both expiring too.

Ayton/Holmes/Chandler
Anderson/Bender
Ariza/Warren/Jackson
Booker/Bridges/Harrison
GHill/Okobo/Melton

Solid team with some good interchangeable pieces and Hill's deal is only $1m guaranteed next season I think?

I would start Ariza and Warren at the forward spots and bring Anderson off the bench in that Teletovic role though personally.

Same 3 guys for Dragic works as well ;)

There's definitely another move coming - either Dragic or GHill unless McD adds in the MIL pick (meh) or HEAVILY protected PHX pick(s).
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1946 » by PhxLax » Thu Sep 6, 2018 11:30 pm

TASTIC wrote:Good clutter-clearing move:

Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for George Hill, done. CLE embraces Sexton at the 1 fully and get 2 good vets who can spread the floor in Arthur and Daniels, who are both expiring too.

Ayton/Holmes/Chandler
Anderson/Bender
Ariza/Warren/Jackson
Booker/Bridges/Harrison
GHill/Okobo/Melton

Solid team with some good interchangeable pieces and Hill's deal is only $1m guaranteed next season I think?

I would start Ariza and Warren at the forward spots and bring Anderson off the bench in that Teletovic role though personally.

Same 3 guys for Dragic works as well ;)

There's definitely another move coming - either Dragic or GHill unless McD adds in the MIL pick (meh) or HEAVILY protected PHX pick(s).


Bridges as a guard? More likely he plays up top as a forward
Shaq as third string shooting guard? One would figure at minimum he's a backup Point Guard
Josh Jackson buried at third string role? Highly highly doubt this

To rid the clutter - AND give Bridges the opportunity to play, grow, and learn (as a forward), one of Warren or Jackson HAS to be dealt.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1947 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Sep 6, 2018 11:36 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I want a competent PG in that 1 spot.

The ideal 1 will be able to shoot, make plays and defend.

Pat Beverely can do all 3 things so he's my ideal choice
Milos can shoot and make plays but can't defend so he's my 2nd choice
Harrison and Melton can defend but haven't shown they can shoot or make plays. Likewise these two are my equal third choice
Okobo in theory can shoot and that's all so he's also my third choice


Okobo really grew as a passer. Shot making is his greatest strength but he's a great finisher and has good court vision. You can see his passing here from 2-4 min mark and some more at around 7 and 8 minute. He also can be a pretty tough defender, though inconsistent, but he has great length and quickness to stick with defenders.

I think Okobo is our best chance of the three to end up running our offense to where it flourishes, and the other two will be solid defenders but are probably not ideal starting level point guards/primary ball handlers, even though Shaq is probably the most ready to play now and Melton might be as ready for minutes, but isn't nearly as skilled offensively as Okobo.


All in theory. Not saying he can't get there or that it's impossible he can't show up on day 1 and do everything we want from the PG position but if I'm looking at it realistically, I would take a proven guy over an unproven 2nd round pick until they prove themselves.

I do agree that theoretically Okobo has the best set of skills and potential to pair next to Booker. He has the best shooting among the 3 young PG's and has a good but basic passing repertoire. Defensively I think he'll need to improve but he has the physical attributes to be good there as well.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1948 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Sep 6, 2018 11:52 pm

TASTIC wrote:Good clutter-clearing move:

Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for George Hill, done. CLE embraces Sexton at the 1 fully and get 2 good vets who can spread the floor in Arthur and Daniels, who are both expiring too.

Ayton/Holmes/Chandler
Anderson/Bender
Ariza/Warren/Jackson
Booker/Bridges/Harrison
GHill/Okobo/Melton

Solid team with some good interchangeable pieces and Hill's deal is only $1m guaranteed next season I think?

I would start Ariza and Warren at the forward spots and bring Anderson off the bench in that Teletovic role though personally.

Same 3 guys for Dragic works as well ;)

There's definitely another move coming - either Dragic or GHill unless McD adds in the MIL pick (meh) or HEAVILY protected PHX pick(s).

I like Dragic as a player better. He's better for the team because of his connection and familiarity with Koko and the organisation. BUT I don't like that he takes up significant cap space in 2019 because he's not turning down his $19m player option next offseason. If you're trading for Dragic, you've essentially used next season's cap space on him.

Hill is the inferior player imo but if we're moving expiring pieces for an older stop gap option then I want that stopgap option to be on a short deal as well which is what Hill is. With only $1m guaranteed next year, it just makes more sense from a cap space and stop gap perspective to go for Hill rather than Dragic.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1949 » by bwgood77 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 12:06 am

LukasBMW wrote:We are making the young guys EARN time at every position. It doesn't make sense that we would just hand the keys over to our two rookie PG's and our D-league experiment.


Well theoretically everyone from the last 3 draft classes have been gifted time their rookie seasons except for Bender who got it his 2nd year. They may need to earn it after that but no one should complain that a rookie gets time since they all did. Now obviously they shouldn't get time over a better option if we have one but we may not.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1950 » by BobbieL » Fri Sep 7, 2018 12:21 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
TASTIC wrote:Good clutter-clearing move:

Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for George Hill, done. CLE embraces Sexton at the 1 fully and get 2 good vets who can spread the floor in Arthur and Daniels, who are both expiring too.

Ayton/Holmes/Chandler
Anderson/Bender
Ariza/Warren/Jackson
Booker/Bridges/Harrison
GHill/Okobo/Melton

Solid team with some good interchangeable pieces and Hill's deal is only $1m guaranteed next season I think?

I would start Ariza and Warren at the forward spots and bring Anderson off the bench in that Teletovic role though personally.

Same 3 guys for Dragic works as well ;)

There's definitely another move coming - either Dragic or GHill unless McD adds in the MIL pick (meh) or HEAVILY protected PHX pick(s).

I like Dragic as a player better. He's better for the team because of his connection and familiarity with Koko and the organisation. BUT I don't like that he takes up significant cap space in 2019 because he's not turning down his $19m player option next offseason. If you're trading for Dragic, you've essentially used next season's cap space on him.

Hill is the inferior player imo but if we're moving expiring pieces for an older stop gap option then I want that stopgap option to be on a short deal as well which is what Hill is. With only $1m guaranteed next year, it just makes more sense from a cap space and stop gap perspective to go for Hill rather than Dragic.


The "cutter clearing" trade of Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for Hill does not work cap wise. Sustitute Tyson Chandler and you have a deal. And yes, Hill only is $1m of cap space in 2019/2020.

Dragic - same thing - Arthur Daniels and Canaan does not work. Need to move Chandler in for Arthur. But I am not sure Riley takes that deal - unless maybe a first round pick is added. Suns would protect the hell out of it. But as has been stated, Dragic is taking a helluva lot of cap space next summer unless you trade like Arthur/Warren for Dragic - so you get back 11m of Warren.


I think Dragic is gettable - just sacrificing cap space and probably hoping he extends his deal after for something like 3/44ish.

Hill - who knows about Cleveland

I am still looking at the Clippers
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1951 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 12:51 am

BobbieL wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
TASTIC wrote:Good clutter-clearing move:

Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for George Hill, done. CLE embraces Sexton at the 1 fully and get 2 good vets who can spread the floor in Arthur and Daniels, who are both expiring too.

Ayton/Holmes/Chandler
Anderson/Bender
Ariza/Warren/Jackson
Booker/Bridges/Harrison
GHill/Okobo/Melton

Solid team with some good interchangeable pieces and Hill's deal is only $1m guaranteed next season I think?

I would start Ariza and Warren at the forward spots and bring Anderson off the bench in that Teletovic role though personally.

Same 3 guys for Dragic works as well ;)

There's definitely another move coming - either Dragic or GHill unless McD adds in the MIL pick (meh) or HEAVILY protected PHX pick(s).

I like Dragic as a player better. He's better for the team because of his connection and familiarity with Koko and the organisation. BUT I don't like that he takes up significant cap space in 2019 because he's not turning down his $19m player option next offseason. If you're trading for Dragic, you've essentially used next season's cap space on him.

Hill is the inferior player imo but if we're moving expiring pieces for an older stop gap option then I want that stopgap option to be on a short deal as well which is what Hill is. With only $1m guaranteed next year, it just makes more sense from a cap space and stop gap perspective to go for Hill rather than Dragic.


The "cutter clearing" trade of Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for Hill does not work cap wise. Sustitute Tyson Chandler and you have a deal. And yes, Hill only is $1m of cap space in 2019/2020.

Dragic - same thing - Arthur Daniels and Canaan does not work. Need to move Chandler in for Arthur. But I am not sure Riley takes that deal - unless maybe a first round pick is added. Suns would protect the hell out of it. But as has been stated, Dragic is taking a helluva lot of cap space next summer unless you trade like Arthur/Warren for Dragic - so you get back 11m of Warren.


I think Dragic is gettable - just sacrificing cap space and probably hoping he extends his deal after for something like 3/44ish.

Hill - who knows about Cleveland

I am still looking at the Clippers

I didn't even look at the numbers. Just presumed Tastic did his due diligence 8-)

Dragic is gettable but I feel like Riles is looking for some real value back vs Cavs and Hill who I don't think are looking for anything major in value back. I love Dragic but I don't know if I want him to re-up with us. He's already 32 and I don't think I want another old guy who is playing 20mpg in the last 2 years of his deal while still being paid $10m+. I want to be clear that unless we're getting back a real solid go-forward option at the PG position, I don't want to change the status of a stopgap (like Dragic, Hill) into the long term 'solution' by resigning them.

My preference is also with the two clippers PGs.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1952 » by TheLogician » Fri Sep 7, 2018 12:53 am

We must be talking to multiple teams if Dragic is available and we haven't pulled the trigger. I think he's our fallback option, tbh.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1953 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 12:58 am

bwgood77 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:We are making the young guys EARN time at every position. It doesn't make sense that we would just hand the keys over to our two rookie PG's and our D-league experiment.


Well theoretically everyone from the last 3 draft classes have been gifted time their rookie seasons except for Bender who got it his 2nd year. They may need to earn it after that but no one should complain that a rookie gets time since they all did. Now obviously they shouldn't get time over a better option if we have one but we may not.

What we've done with the last 3 draft classes shouldn't set a precedent going forward
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1954 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 12:59 am

TheLogician wrote:We must be talking to multiple teams if Dragic is available and we haven't pulled the trigger. I think he's our fallback option, tbh.

I think Riley is asking for a lot, perhaps one of our young pieces or a pick. I would say no too if they came asking for Bender, JJ, top 10 protected pick etc.

He definitely sounds like a fallback option if all else fails.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1955 » by bwgood77 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 1:04 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:We are making the young guys EARN time at every position. It doesn't make sense that we would just hand the keys over to our two rookie PG's and our D-league experiment.


Well theoretically everyone from the last 3 draft classes have been gifted time their rookie seasons except for Bender who got it his 2nd year. They may need to earn it after that but no one should complain that a rookie gets time since they all did. Now obviously they shouldn't get time over a better option if we have one but we may not.

What we've done with the last 3 draft classes shouldn't set a precedent going forward


And I don't think it is. I'm just saying we haven't yet made guys earn their time. I'm glad it's going to happen for guys like Bender, Jackson, Bridges and Reed, considering the depth at their spots, but I think the point guards will have to earn it too. That's why it's good there is a little competition there. Even if a guy's a rookie, they can still certainly earn it, like guys like Mitchell and Tatum did last year and even second round guys like Gilbert Arenas and Carlos Boozer have in the past.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1956 » by bwgood77 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 1:09 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
TheLogician wrote:We must be talking to multiple teams if Dragic is available and we haven't pulled the trigger. I think he's our fallback option, tbh.

I think Riley is asking for a lot, perhaps one of our young pieces or a pick. I would say no too if they came asking for Bender, JJ, top 10 protected pick etc.

He definitely sounds like a fallback option if all else fails.


Not sure why people think he's readily available...well I guess I do...Gambo, but it's amazing how many people buy that stuff. Maybe for like a top 3 protected first and pieces. I'd trust any info surrounding him more from their media people than ours. https://heatnation.com/rumors/heat-insider-explains-deal-goran-dragic/

Plus it's not worth killing our cap space for him and then having to give him another contract in his mid 30s or lose them but not really gain cap space because Booker's extension has kicked in.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1957 » by TASTIC » Fri Sep 7, 2018 1:21 am

BobbieL wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
TASTIC wrote:Good clutter-clearing move:

Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for George Hill, done. CLE embraces Sexton at the 1 fully and get 2 good vets who can spread the floor in Arthur and Daniels, who are both expiring too.

Ayton/Holmes/Chandler
Anderson/Bender
Ariza/Warren/Jackson
Booker/Bridges/Harrison
GHill/Okobo/Melton

Solid team with some good interchangeable pieces and Hill's deal is only $1m guaranteed next season I think?

I would start Ariza and Warren at the forward spots and bring Anderson off the bench in that Teletovic role though personally.

Same 3 guys for Dragic works as well ;)

There's definitely another move coming - either Dragic or GHill unless McD adds in the MIL pick (meh) or HEAVILY protected PHX pick(s).

I like Dragic as a player better. He's better for the team because of his connection and familiarity with Koko and the organisation. BUT I don't like that he takes up significant cap space in 2019 because he's not turning down his $19m player option next offseason. If you're trading for Dragic, you've essentially used next season's cap space on him.

Hill is the inferior player imo but if we're moving expiring pieces for an older stop gap option then I want that stopgap option to be on a short deal as well which is what Hill is. With only $1m guaranteed next year, it just makes more sense from a cap space and stop gap perspective to go for Hill rather than Dragic.


The "cutter clearing" trade of Arthur, Daniels and Canaan for Hill does not work cap wise. Sustitute Tyson Chandler and you have a deal. And yes, Hill only is $1m of cap space in 2019/2020.

Dragic - same thing - Arthur Daniels and Canaan does not work. Need to move Chandler in for Arthur. But I am not sure Riley takes that deal - unless maybe a first round pick is added. Suns would protect the hell out of it. But as has been stated, Dragic is taking a helluva lot of cap space next summer unless you trade like Arthur/Warren for Dragic - so you get back 11m of Warren.


I think Dragic is gettable - just sacrificing cap space and probably hoping he extends his deal after for something like 3/44ish.

Hill - who knows about Cleveland

I am still looking at the Clippers

Both work...Canaan just needs to agree to the trade cos he's a one year Bird player.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7111204

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7111205
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1958 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 1:22 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Well theoretically everyone from the last 3 draft classes have been gifted time their rookie seasons except for Bender who got it his 2nd year. They may need to earn it after that but no one should complain that a rookie gets time since they all did. Now obviously they shouldn't get time over a better option if we have one but we may not.

What we've done with the last 3 draft classes shouldn't set a precedent going forward


And I don't think it is. I'm just saying we haven't yet made guys earn their time. I'm glad it's going to happen for guys like Bender, Jackson, Bridges and Reed, considering the depth at their spots, but I think the point guards will have to earn it too. That's why it's good there is a little competition there. Even if a guy's a rookie, they can still certainly earn it, like guys like Mitchell and Tatum did last year and even second round guys like Gilbert Arenas and Carlos Boozer have in the past.

I'm not saying they can't earn it just because they are rookies. It's pretty clear with how much experience we (don't) have at the 1, anyone of the 3 young guys could conceivably 'earn' PT even if they probably wouldn't on any other team. I'm not saying there should be a set league-wide standard that they have to meet in order to get PT but they obviously need to at least beat out each other to get PT.

I do think it's good to have 3 guys who will be competing for PT and that we have those options. I'm just not confident we'll get above league average play from any of them this season.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1959 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 1:25 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
TheLogician wrote:We must be talking to multiple teams if Dragic is available and we haven't pulled the trigger. I think he's our fallback option, tbh.

I think Riley is asking for a lot, perhaps one of our young pieces or a pick. I would say no too if they came asking for Bender, JJ, top 10 protected pick etc.

He definitely sounds like a fallback option if all else fails.


Not sure why people think he's readily available...well I guess I do...Gambo, but it's amazing how many people buy that stuff. Maybe for like a top 3 protected first and pieces. I'd trust any info surrounding him more from their media people than ours. https://heatnation.com/rumors/heat-insider-explains-deal-goran-dragic/

Plus it's not worth killing our cap space for him and then having to give him another contract in his mid 30s or lose them but not really gain cap space because Booker's extension has kicked in.

Maybe he is, maybe he's not. But if he is, which probably isn't a huge leap to believe he is, then I think Riley would be asking for something valuable in return. I don't think they are desperate to move him or even need to but I think they are probably in the testing the market stage at the moment.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1960 » by bwgood77 » Fri Sep 7, 2018 1:33 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:What we've done with the last 3 draft classes shouldn't set a precedent going forward


And I don't think it is. I'm just saying we haven't yet made guys earn their time. I'm glad it's going to happen for guys like Bender, Jackson, Bridges and Reed, considering the depth at their spots, but I think the point guards will have to earn it too. That's why it's good there is a little competition there. Even if a guy's a rookie, they can still certainly earn it, like guys like Mitchell and Tatum did last year and even second round guys like Gilbert Arenas and Carlos Boozer have in the past.

I'm not saying they can't earn it just because they are rookies. It's pretty clear with how much experience we (don't) have at the 1, anyone of the 3 young guys could conceivably 'earn' PT even if they probably wouldn't on any other team. I'm not saying there should be a set league-wide standard that they have to meet in order to get PT but they obviously need to at least beat out each other to get PT.

I do think it's good to have 3 guys who will be competing for PT and that we have those options. I'm just not confident we'll get above league average play from any of them this season.


Well me neither if that's what we are hoping for or expecting. I mean above league average efficiency at the PG spot is probably the toughest spot to be above league average. Especially for the team that was far the worst team in the league last year and was particularly a disaster at PG, at least until Shaq showed up. Last year he did post a positive RPM though, which is tough on a bad team and really tough on a really bad team. He probably posted an RPM better than the avg for all point guards, but probably not for all starters...but of course that was on a small sample of play.

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