Otto Porter - Part 3

[FAH1223]

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[zero2hero]

Otto's has just as handle, slashing and scoring ability as Jaylen Brown. What Otto lacks in above the rim play, he makes up for it with a very good pull-up midrange/runner. In Brown's second year, he has put up quite similar numbers to Otto's across the board. And I expect him to surpass Otto's numbers next year, due to the fact that the system is better suited to his skillset (similar to Otto's).

What? Huh? How'd I miss this whacko claim? Brown put up quite similar numbers to Otto's across the board? Wow!!

Oh, I see. You mean they scored about the same number of points per 40 minutes. That's it, right? Per 40 minutes only .25 points separates them.

That's "quite similar" no doubt. But, ummmm, again per 40 minutes...

Didn't Porter get about 25% more defensive rebounds?
Didn't Otto get 33% more offensive boards?
20% more assists?
1/3 more blocks?
Almost 50% more steals?

What's the most "similar" among those? Plus, didn't Brown...

Turn the ball over almost 50% more often than Porter?
Didn't he commit 1/3 more fouls than Otto?
Didn't Otto shoot almost 54% -- to Brown's almost 51% -- on 2 point shots?
Wasn't Otto 44.1% vs. Brown's 39.5% on 3-pointers? Are those 2 %s "quite similar?"
Brown was under 65% from the line. Otto was almost 83% -- "quite similar?"

So... how is his skillset quite similar? &, if he is going to "surpass Otto's numbers next year," is he first going to get himself somewhere near Otto's numbers? Because he hasn't done that yet.

They maybe quite similar some day, or at least a little similar -- for starters. Brown may turn out to be a better player than Otto for that matter. It's not inconceivable.

But first Jaylen Brown has to get to where he is anywhere near as good as Otto Porter, wouldn't you say?

I may have over-simplified their stats similarity but their actual skillsets aren't that far off, and my point was that he was closer to Jaylen Brown than Tatum. Both Brown and Otto excel at spot up shooters. They can both put the ball on the floor if its a straight line drive. Finishing ability is similar - what Otto lacks in above the rim play - he has a great pull-up/floating shot.

[payitforward]

Otto's has just as handle, slashing and scoring ability as Jaylen Brown. What Otto lacks in above the rim play, he makes up for it with a very good pull-up midrange/runner. In Brown's second year, he has put up quite similar numbers to Otto's across the board. And I expect him to surpass Otto's numbers next year, due to the fact that the system is better suited to his skillset (similar to Otto's).

What? Huh? How'd I miss this whacko claim? Brown put up quite similar numbers to Otto's across the board? Wow!!

Oh, I see. You mean they scored about the same number of points per 40 minutes. That's it, right? Per 40 minutes only .25 points separates them.

That's "quite similar" no doubt. But, ummmm, again per 40 minutes...

Didn't Porter get about 25% more defensive rebounds?
Didn't Otto get 33% more offensive boards?
20% more assists?
1/3 more blocks?
Almost 50% more steals?

What's the most "similar" among those? Plus, didn't Brown...

Turn the ball over almost 50% more often than Porter?
Didn't he commit 1/3 more fouls than Otto?
Didn't Otto shoot almost 54% -- to Brown's almost 51% -- on 2 point shots?
Wasn't Otto 44.1% vs. Brown's 39.5% on 3-pointers? Are those 2 %s "quite similar?"
Brown was under 65% from the line. Otto was almost 83% -- "quite similar?"

So... how is his skillset quite similar? &, if he is going to "surpass Otto's numbers next year," is he first going to get himself somewhere near Otto's numbers? Because he hasn't done that yet.

They maybe quite similar some day, or at least a little similar -- for starters. Brown may turn out to be a better player than Otto for that matter. It's not inconceivable.

But first Jaylen Brown has to get to where he is anywhere near as good as Otto Porter, wouldn't you say?

I may have over-simplified their stats similarity but their actual skillsets aren't that far off, and my point was that he was closer to Jaylen Brown than Tatum. Both Brown and Otto excel at spot up shooters. They can both put the ball on the floor if its a straight line drive. Finishing ability is similar - what Otto lacks in above the rim play - he has a great pull-up/floating shot.

Fair enough, & no big deal, but you called them similar "across the board" -- which was what surprised me, since they are such utterly different players in so many ways -- but all you meant was their scoring skills. & you predicted Brown's numbers surpassing Otto's this year, b/c of synergy between his skills & the Celtics "system."

Then I looked at the numbers. I saw 2 guys who take the same number of shots, but Otto is a significantly better 2-point shooter, a significantly better 3-point shooter, & a way way better FT shooter (hard to see "system" affecting FT %, don't you think? ). I also saw that Brown got to the line twice as often as Porter last year -- that also points to difference in their "skillsets," or at least in the way they try to score the ball.

I also saw that Porter posted a TS% over 60% while only taking just over 2 FTAs per 40 minutes. That is some amazing shooting. It's not "like" anybody I can think of.

When you add to that the fact that Porter does all that other stuff I mentioned so very much better than Brown, you can see why your claim didn't make sense to me. Note that I'm not criticizing Jaylen Brown -- not one bit! He had one heck of a year last year for a 21 year old guy in his 2d year in the league!

[keynote]

Saw this on Giannis' IG:



Amazing progress over a 3-year period.

I hope Otto is doing this -- or something like it. OTOH, I wonder if his trick hip has hindered him from doing lower body strength training -- which in turn has made it difficult for him to bulk up properly. Hip thrust gains like Giannis' might be difficult to achieve if you're constantly rehabbing that area.

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[Wizardspride]

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[WallToWall]

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/10/25/18021472/otto-porter-three-point-shooting-usage-washington-wizards
I agree with this assessment.

Porter with and without Wall and Beal
Combos 2017-18......USG% ......PPP...... eFG%
Wall & Beal ......... 15.6........ 1.3 ....... 0.593
No Beal .............. 14.5 ...... 1.52 ...... 0.591
No Wall .............. 20.3 ...... 1.19 ...... 0.546
No Wall or Beal ..... 22.9 ...... 1.38 ...... 0.645

Porter needs to be played without Wall and Beal for some stretches. This is good reason to pair him with the bench players. He needs to be paired up with another PG so that he becomes the focus or first option to score. He makes good decisions with the ball, and its not like he's a selfish player. He will kick the ball out if there is no shot for him.
They need to run plays specifically for Porter. And, yeah, he needs to run the floor a bit more.

[queridiculo]

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/10/25/18021472/otto-porter-three-point-shooting-usage-washington-wizards
I agree with this assessment.

Porter with and without Wall and Beal
Combos 2017-18......USG% ......PPP...... eFG%
Wall & Beal ......... 15.6........ 1.3 ....... 0.593
No Beal .............. 14.5 ...... 1.52 ...... 0.591
No Wall .............. 20.3 ...... 1.19 ...... 0.546
No Wall or Beal ..... 22.9 ...... 1.38 ...... 0.645

Porter needs to be played without Wall and Beal for some stretches. This is good reason to pair him with the bench players. He needs to be paired up with another PG so that he becomes the focus or first option to score. He makes good decisions with the ball, and its not like he's a selfish player. He will kick the ball out if there is no shot for him.
They need to run plays specifically for Porter. And, yeah, he needs to run the floor a bit more.

Eh, the sample size isn't big enough for me to jump to conclusions.

What I see from that data is what people have been saying over and over again, Porter needs to get more shots irrespective of whom he's playing with.

[nate33]

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/10/25/18021472/otto-porter-three-point-shooting-usage-washington-wizards
I agree with this assessment.

Porter with and without Wall and Beal
Combos 2017-18......USG% ......PPP...... eFG%
Wall & Beal ......... 15.6........ 1.3 ....... 0.593
No Beal .............. 14.5 ...... 1.52 ...... 0.591
No Wall .............. 20.3 ...... 1.19 ...... 0.546
No Wall or Beal ..... 22.9 ...... 1.38 ...... 0.645

Porter needs to be played without Wall and Beal for some stretches. This is good reason to pair him with the bench players. He needs to be paired up with another PG so that he becomes the focus or first option to score. He makes good decisions with the ball, and its not like he's a selfish player. He will kick the ball out if there is no shot for him.
They need to run plays specifically for Porter. And, yeah, he needs to run the floor a bit more.

Eh, the sample size isn't big enough for me to jump to conclusions.

What I see from that data is what people have been saying over and over again, Porter needs to get more shots irrespective of whom he's playing with.

The numbers certainly are interesting, but I agree that the sample size is far from conclusive. In the screen I ran, the results showed that Otto has only played 178 minutes without both Wall and Beal on the floor with him.

But 178 minutes is better than nothing. It's at least enough evidence that the experiment should continue. Let Porter roll with the 2nd unit and feed him the rock!

[Ruzious]

I thought it was telling that while Oubre had nice nubers against GS, he also had the worst +/- on the team (-26). He doesn't see his teammates - for the most part - which is a major reason for his low BBIQ. A good defensive team is going to double him on his drives, and he's going to turn it over or throw up a bad shot. So, as long as his stats look good to some, use that to get value for him in a trade.

[pcbothwel]

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/10/25/18021472/otto-porter-three-point-shooting-usage-washington-wizards
I agree with this assessment.

Porter with and without Wall and Beal
Combos 2017-18......USG% ......PPP...... eFG%
Wall & Beal ......... 15.6........ 1.3 ....... 0.593
No Beal .............. 14.5 ...... 1.52 ...... 0.591
No Wall .............. 20.3 ...... 1.19 ...... 0.546
No Wall or Beal ..... 22.9 ...... 1.38 ...... 0.645

Porter needs to be played without Wall and Beal for some stretches. This is good reason to pair him with the bench players. He needs to be paired up with another PG so that he becomes the focus or first option to score. He makes good decisions with the ball, and its not like he's a selfish player. He will kick the ball out if there is no shot for him.
They need to run plays specifically for Porter. And, yeah, he needs to run the floor a bit more.

Eh, the sample size isn't big enough for me to jump to conclusions.

What I see from that data is what people have been saying over and over again, Porter needs to get more shots irrespective of whom he's playing with.

The numbers certainly are interesting, but I agree that the sample size is far from conclusive. In the screen I ran, the results showed that Otto has only played 178 minutes without both Wall and Beal on the floor with him.

But 178 minutes is better than nothing. It's at least enough evidence that the experiment should continue. Let Porter roll with the 2nd unit and feed him the rock!

Agreed, get him out early so you can play him the start of the 2Q for 3-5 minutes with Sato and Rivers. Allows Sato to play free and gives legit shooter/scorer on the court take away shots from Rivers... lol

I also think Rivers has some "Break Glass in case of emergency" type offense. If Otto/Sato are not getting shots off. Have Rivers iso and drive. He'll either get to the rim or kick out, but creates a little havoc if we need it.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Otto Porter kind of reminds me of a wealthy man's Patrick Patterson. He's way better than Patterson but the strengths and issues are similar. Raptors fans used to suggest Patterson was efficient and the team was better with him on the floor than off it so he needed a bigger role. The Raptors tried it a few games and now the Thunder are trying it and it isn't working. It isn't just sharing the ball or being unselfish, it's legitimately only taking the shots they're actually comfortable with. I'm not sure if forcing things would tank his efficiency or not but regardless he needs to figure out a way to become comfortable taking a wider variety of shots. While that small sample size isn't conclusive, it's also pretty underwhelming. With no Wall and Beal his usage should be way higher. Porter was way better than the bench and yet his usage without Wall or Beal is right around the usage of guys like Keef, Mike Scott and Jason Smith regardless of who they were playing with. Some of this is clearly how the team uses Porter but he also bears some of the responsibility, too.

[Kanyewest]

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/10/25/18021472/otto-porter-three-point-shooting-usage-washington-wizards
I agree with this assessment.

Porter with and without Wall and Beal
Combos 2017-18......USG% ......PPP...... eFG%
Wall & Beal ......... 15.6........ 1.3 ....... 0.593
No Beal .............. 14.5 ...... 1.52 ...... 0.591
No Wall .............. 20.3 ...... 1.19 ...... 0.546
No Wall or Beal ..... 22.9 ...... 1.38 ...... 0.645

Porter needs to be played without Wall and Beal for some stretches. This is good reason to pair him with the bench players. He needs to be paired up with another PG so that he becomes the focus or first option to score. He makes good decisions with the ball, and its not like he's a selfish player. He will kick the ball out if there is no shot for him.
They need to run plays specifically for Porter. And, yeah, he needs to run the floor a bit more.

The one that looks bad is the one without Wall. And that could be because a Rivers/Beal backcourt is not ideal. Might look better with Satoransky out there. But yeah as queridiculo said, extremely small sample size.

[Kanyewest]

I thought it was telling that while Oubre had nice nubers against GS, he also had the worst +/- on the team (-26). He doesn't see his teammates - for the most part - which is a major reason for his low BBIQ. A good defensive team is going to double him on his drives, and he's going to turn it over or throw up a bad shot. So, as long as his stats look good to some, use that to get value for him in a trade.

Oubre's value is certainly higher than it is ever been among Wizards fans, who are now proclaiming him better than Porter. I wouldn't blame him too much for his plus minus since it was the Warriors and generally has had one of the plus minus's as a bench player.

[jangles86]

Otto is a very average nba player on a huge salary.

[FAH1223]

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[queridiculo]

Even if it's true that fans are undervaluing him, the real problem is that it's the organization that has consistently managed to marginalize him as a player.

From the contract negotiations, to Wall openly questioning his value and Brooks limiting his minutes, all the way to how the team promotes him.

The picture that I have in mind from team photos leading up to the season is Beal, Wall and Howard headlining as the feature guys and Porter seemingly being an afterthought.

It's a shame that Brooks can't manage to instill a system that consistently puts him in a position to contribute.

[Induveca]

Ouch NBA Gametime while trashing the Wizards handling of trade said Oubre would bring the fight to the other team, young with upside.

Then stated (Haywood) Porter didn’t have that energy, then host said “And they just paid 100 million for that!” Then shook his head.

With Ariza I hope we can resign him early on a one year deal and trade Porter ASAP.

[DCZards]

Ouch NBA Gametime while trashing the Wizards handling of trade said Oubre would bring the fight to the other team, young with upside.

Then stated (Haywood) Porter didn’t have that energy, then host said “And they just paid 100 million for that!” Then shook his head.

With Ariza I hope we can resign him early on a one year deal and trade Porter ASAP.

I've been critical of Porter, especially his inability to create for himself and others on the offensive end. But I'm not eager to trade OP simply to dump his salary. He's too valuable (and young) for that.

Yes, Porter is overpaid but he's also criminally underrated by talking heads like Haywood...and some Zards fans.

[Induveca]

Ouch NBA Gametime while trashing the Wizards handling of trade said Oubre would bring the fight to the other team, young with upside.

Then stated (Haywood) Porter didn’t have that energy, then host said “And they just paid 100 million for that!” Then shook his head.

With Ariza I hope we can resign him early on a one year deal and trade Porter ASAP.

I've been critical of Porter, especially his inability to create for himself and others on the offensive end. But I'm not eager to trade OP simply to dump his salary. He's too valuable (and young) for that.

Yes, Porter is overpaid but he's also criminally underrated by talking heads like Haywood...and some Zards fans.

The point was valid though, they should trade him while a market exists. He’s too inconsistent, and just isn’t aggressive enough to be more than a jump shooter.

He’s not a horrible player, but he’s a Juwan Howard-esque embodiment of the stupidity of the franchise. Fans are already booing the guy.

[truwizfan4evr]

Ouch NBA Gametime while trashing the Wizards handling of trade said Oubre would bring the fight to the other team, young with upside.

Then stated (Haywood) Porter didn’t have that energy, then host said “And they just paid 100 million for that!” Then shook his head.

With Ariza I hope we can resign him early on a one year deal and trade Porter ASAP.

I've been critical of Porter, especially his inability to create for himself and others on the offensive end. But I'm not eager to trade OP simply to dump his salary. He's too valuable (and young) for that.

Yes, Porter is overpaid but he's also criminally underrated by talking heads like Haywood...and some Zards fans.

i agree 1000%