RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#22 2018-19

[bisme37]

Someone who watched the playoffs a couple months ago needs to explain how Ben Simmons is a better NBA basketball player than Al Horford. (Or I mean, I'd be interested to hear an explanation.)

[Harry Garris]

No way simmons should go before Mitchell, what Mitchell did lest season was more impressive

Not really, Ben Simmon's season last year was historic and one of the greatest rookie seasons of all time. Mitchell's wasn't. What was impressive about Mitchell was his leadership and the trust Quinn Snyder has in him at such a young age.

[Harry Garris]

Someone who watched the playoffs a couple months ago needs to explain how Ben Simmons is a better NBA basketball player than Al Horford. (Or I mean, I'd be interested to hear an explanation.)

Better numbers and has a much bigger responsibility on offense. Horford is really good on defense but a lot of why Horford is good is making smart basketball plays, not really talent. Once Ben Simmons gets more experience and learns the game along with how talented he is he'll be one of the best in the league.

[bisme37]

Someone who watched the playoffs a couple months ago needs to explain how Ben Simmons is a better NBA basketball player than Al Horford. (Or I mean, I'd be interested to hear an explanation.)

Better numbers and has a much bigger responsibility on offense. Horford is really good on defense but a lot of why Horford is good is making smart basketball plays, not really talent. Once Ben Simmons gets more experience and learns the game along with how talented he is he'll be one of the best in the league.

Well sure, once Ben becomes a better player he will be a better player. But there's no evidence that has happened yet and I thought this poll was about the present.

I'm just thinking... after that playoff series I wrote a comment about how the young C's had outplayed the young Sixers, and a bunch of Sixers fans told me that wasn't true and the only reason the C's won was because the best player in the series was Al Horford. Was even told without Horford the Sixers would have won the series in 5 games.

So now I'm sitting here like, uhh, Embiid was chosen in the poll at #11, and Ben is about to be chosen at #22. Meanwhile the guy who just curb stomped their entire team on both ends of the floor and was the 2nd best player in the entire East Playoffs after Lebron is over here not being picked. There is no planet on which Ben Simmons is currently a better basketball player than Horford.

[iggymcfrack]

Someone who watched the playoffs a couple months ago needs to explain how Ben Simmons is a better NBA basketball player than Al Horford. (Or I mean, I'd be interested to hear an explanation.)

Better numbers and has a much bigger responsibility on offense. Horford is really good on defense but a lot of why Horford is good is making smart basketball plays, not really talent. Once Ben Simmons gets more experience and learns the game along with how talented he is he'll be one of the best in the league.

Well sure, once Ben becomes a better player he will be a better player. But there's no evidence that has happened yet and I thought this poll was about the present.

I'm just thinking... after that playoff series I wrote a comment about how the young C's had outplayed the young Sixers, and a bunch of Sixers fans told me that wasn't true and the only reason the C's won was because the best player in the series was Al Horford. Was even told without Horford the Sixers would have won the series in 5 games.

So now I'm sitting here like, uhh, Embiid was chosen in the poll at #11, and Ben is about to be chosen at #22. Meanwhile the guy who just curb stomped their entire team on both ends of the floor and was the 2nd best player in the entire East Playoffs after Lebron is over here not being picked. There is no planet on which Ben Simmons is currently a better basketball player than Horford.

It’s about next season. Sure, Horford played at an incredibly high level in the playoffs and was much better than Simmons last season, but if you look at Horford’s last 4 or 5 playoffs, that wasn’t a consistent thing that showed up and he’s old enough that he’s more likely to decline than hit new highs.

Meanwhile, Simmons was probably better than Horford during the regular season and was certainly better during the second half of the regular season. Give him another year to develop and it’s just hard to bet on him not being the better player next year.

Also, Simmons’ issue last year was more of a Stevens issue than a general playoff issue. He played very well against Miami. I think if he were say in the West, I’d be pretty unconcerned with whether he’d be able to perform at a high level in the postseason. It’s really just the best coach in the league with the best or second best defense that’s shown the ability to blow him up so far.

[SkyHookFTW]

It's Simmons time, vote Simmons.

Nominate: Otto Porter

[Effigy]

I picked Mitchell.

Add Booker.

[bwgood77]

Simmons

[Alatan]

How is Simmons better than Wall?

[iggymcfrack]

How is Simmons better than Wall?

Better defender, much better rebounder, much more efficient scorer to the point that his scoring has to be more valuable overall. Only thing Wall’s really got on him is an extra assist or two a game. And that doesn’t even account for how much Simmons is likely to improve between now and next year.

[SlowPaced]

How is Simmons better than Wall?

Better defender, much better rebounder, much more efficient scorer to the point that his scoring has to be more valuable overall. Only thing Wall’s really got on him is an extra assist or two a game. And that doesn’t even account for how much Simmons is likely to improve between now and next year.

Simmons is nowhere near Wall as a scorer, at least for now. Playoffs were a great indicator of that.

[iggymcfrack]

The thing about Wall is his scoring just isn’t very valuable since he’s so inefficient. Career TS% of .518 in the regular season (.515 last year) and .512 in the playoffs (.528 last year). It’s a good skill to help a bad offense rise to mediocre, but it really caps your ceiling and does pretty much nothing to help a contender.

[bisme37]

Better numbers and has a much bigger responsibility on offense. Horford is really good on defense but a lot of why Horford is good is making smart basketball plays, not really talent. Once Ben Simmons gets more experience and learns the game along with how talented he is he'll be one of the best in the league.

Well sure, once Ben becomes a better player he will be a better player. But there's no evidence that has happened yet and I thought this poll was about the present.

I'm just thinking... after that playoff series I wrote a comment about how the young C's had outplayed the young Sixers, and a bunch of Sixers fans told me that wasn't true and the only reason the C's won was because the best player in the series was Al Horford. Was even told without Horford the Sixers would have won the series in 5 games.

So now I'm sitting here like, uhh, Embiid was chosen in the poll at #11, and Ben is about to be chosen at #22. Meanwhile the guy who just curb stomped their entire team on both ends of the floor and was the 2nd best player in the entire East Playoffs after Lebron is over here not being picked. There is no planet on which Ben Simmons is currently a better basketball player than Horford.

It’s about next season. Sure, Horford played at an incredibly high level in the playoffs and was much better than Simmons last season, but if you look at Horford’s last 4 or 5 playoffs, that wasn’t a consistent thing that showed up and he’s old enough that he’s more likely to decline than hit new highs.

Meanwhile, Simmons was probably better than Horford during the regular season and was certainly better during the second half of the regular season. Give him another year to develop and it’s just hard to bet on him not being the better player next year.

Also, Simmons’ issue last year was more of a Stevens issue than a general playoff issue. He played very well against Miami. I think if he were say in the West, I’d be pretty unconcerned with whether he’d be able to perform at a high level in the postseason. It’s really just the best coach in the league with the best or second best defense that’s shown the ability to blow him up so far.

So people are just Nostradamusing this whole thing, basically. Got it.

Al Horford is going to age 20 years in a few months time, and the guy who was just outplayed by TJ McConnell in a playoff series will become the GOAT in a few months time. Because that makes sense.

[iggymcfrack]

Well sure, once Ben becomes a better player he will be a better player. But there's no evidence that has happened yet and I thought this poll was about the present.

I'm just thinking... after that playoff series I wrote a comment about how the young C's had outplayed the young Sixers, and a bunch of Sixers fans told me that wasn't true and the only reason the C's won was because the best player in the series was Al Horford. Was even told without Horford the Sixers would have won the series in 5 games.

So now I'm sitting here like, uhh, Embiid was chosen in the poll at #11, and Ben is about to be chosen at #22. Meanwhile the guy who just curb stomped their entire team on both ends of the floor and was the 2nd best player in the entire East Playoffs after Lebron is over here not being picked. There is no planet on which Ben Simmons is currently a better basketball player than Horford.

It’s about next season. Sure, Horford played at an incredibly high level in the playoffs and was much better than Simmons last season, but if you look at Horford’s last 4 or 5 playoffs, that wasn’t a consistent thing that showed up and he’s old enough that he’s more likely to decline than hit new highs.

Meanwhile, Simmons was probably better than Horford during the regular season and was certainly better during the second half of the regular season. Give him another year to develop and it’s just hard to bet on him not being the better player next year.

Also, Simmons’ issue last year was more of a Stevens issue than a general playoff issue. He played very well against Miami. I think if he were say in the West, I’d be pretty unconcerned with whether he’d be able to perform at a high level in the postseason. It’s really just the best coach in the league with the best or second best defense that’s shown the ability to blow him up so far.

So people are just Nostradamusing this whole thing, basically. Got it.

Al Horford is going to age 20 years in a few months time, and the guy who was just outplayed by TJ McConnell in a playoff series will become the GOAT in a few months time. Because that makes sense.

If Horford aged 6 years he’d be out of the league, let alone 20. I just think that at age 32, he’s probably more likely to regress to the level of play he performed at from age 27-30 than to have another great season after spiking at age 31.

And yes, I think the guy who was considered a borderline Top 10 player as a rookie before having one bad series against Boston should be able to manage being a Top 20 player in his sophomore season.

[MindState]

DeMarcus and Hayward really shouldnt be options. Neither have proven themselves after injury.

If your going to vote Hayward based off last year, you have to vote DeMarcus off of last year also.

[iggymcfrack]

DeMarcus and Hayward really shouldnt be options. Neither have proven themselves after injury.

If your going to vote Hayward based off last year, you have to vote DeMarcus off of last year also.

No, because Hayward has an injury that he’ll be completely healed from the first day of the season after having a full 12 months to heal. Cousins won’t even be able to play the first few months, and even when he does, likely won’t be 100% for a while both because of the recency of the injury and the severity. Broken bones while nasty at the time, tend to heal completely and players usually recover close to 100% when they come back on the court. A torn Achilles on the other hand takes at least a year from when basketball activities resume for a player to recover anywhere near the level they were previously and often their career never recovers period.

[Harry Garris]

Well sure, once Ben becomes a better player he will be a better player. But there's no evidence that has happened yet and I thought this poll was about the present.

I'm just thinking... after that playoff series I wrote a comment about how the young C's had outplayed the young Sixers, and a bunch of Sixers fans told me that wasn't true and the only reason the C's won was because the best player in the series was Al Horford. Was even told without Horford the Sixers would have won the series in 5 games.

So now I'm sitting here like, uhh, Embiid was chosen in the poll at #11, and Ben is about to be chosen at #22. Meanwhile the guy who just curb stomped their entire team on both ends of the floor and was the 2nd best player in the entire East Playoffs after Lebron is over here not being picked. There is no planet on which Ben Simmons is currently a better basketball player than Horford.

It’s about next season. Sure, Horford played at an incredibly high level in the playoffs and was much better than Simmons last season, but if you look at Horford’s last 4 or 5 playoffs, that wasn’t a consistent thing that showed up and he’s old enough that he’s more likely to decline than hit new highs.

Meanwhile, Simmons was probably better than Horford during the regular season and was certainly better during the second half of the regular season. Give him another year to develop and it’s just hard to bet on him not being the better player next year.

Also, Simmons’ issue last year was more of a Stevens issue than a general playoff issue. He played very well against Miami. I think if he were say in the West, I’d be pretty unconcerned with whether he’d be able to perform at a high level in the postseason. It’s really just the best coach in the league with the best or second best defense that’s shown the ability to blow him up so far.

So people are just Nostradamusing this whole thing, basically. Got it.

Al Horford is going to age 20 years in a few months time, and the guy who was just outplayed by TJ McConnell in a playoff series will become the GOAT in a few months time. Because that makes sense.

No one's saying that. I'm just saying Simmons is going to improve a lot this year. Maybe I'm wrong but with how much room he had to improve and given the fact that he seems to have worked on his game a lot this summer that's very unlikely.

[Shanghai Kid]

The thing about Wall is his scoring just isn’t very valuable since he’s so inefficient. Career TS% of .518 in the regular season (.515 last year) and .512 in the playoffs (.528 last year). It’s a good skill to help a bad offense rise to mediocre, but it really caps your ceiling and does pretty much nothing to help a contender.

I honestly don't really see any evidence that Simmons is a better scorer or offensive player than a healthy Wall.

Simmons in the playoffs averaged 16ppg/9apg on 54% TS. Wall over his last 19 playoffs games (last two seasons) has averaged 26ppg/10apg on 54% TS.

Simmons in the regular season averaged 16ppg on .557 TS, Wall's last regular healthy season averaged 23ppg on 54% TS with 11apg.

Simmons certainly has a much stronger upside. But Wall has been pretty fantastic in his last two playoff runs. In his series against Atlanta he averaged 30/10 on 59% TS with 42 points on a game 6 closeout game on the road.

Wall although not as efficient as Simmons inside the arc, is at least a respectable spot-up 3-point shooter also.

[iggymcfrack]

The thing about Wall is his scoring just isn’t very valuable since he’s so inefficient. Career TS% of .518 in the regular season (.515 last year) and .512 in the playoffs (.528 last year). It’s a good skill to help a bad offense rise to mediocre, but it really caps your ceiling and does pretty much nothing to help a contender.

I honestly don't really see any evidence that Simmons is a better scorer or offensive player than a healthy Wall.

Simmons in the playoffs averaged 16ppg/9apg on 54% TS. Wall over his last 19 playoffs games (last two seasons) has averaged 26ppg/10apg on 54% TS.

Simmons in the regular season averaged 16ppg on .557 TS, Wall's last regular healthy season averaged 23ppg on 54% TS with 11apg.

Simmons certainly has a much stronger upside. But Wall has been pretty fantastic in his last two playoff runs. In his series against Atlanta he averaged 30/10 on 59% TS with 42 points on a game 6 closeout game on the road.

Wall although not as efficient as Simmons inside the arc, is at least a respectable spot-up 3-point shooter also.

Well, if you select hard for Wall’s one season where he was statistically much better than any other season which isn’t even his last season he’s obviously gonna look better. I think it’s really a reach though to say that Wall’s age 26 season is much more predictive of his future performance than his 22-25 seasons + his age 27 season which are all close to identical statistically.

Then when you factor in how much his game relies on athleticism, that his impact stats peaked 4 seasons ago, and the fact that sometimes players you know continue to play worse after an injury, I think it’s much more likely that he declines in 2018/19 than that he improves in the coming season.

[Shanghai Kid]

The thing about Wall is his scoring just isn’t very valuable since he’s so inefficient. Career TS% of .518 in the regular season (.515 last year) and .512 in the playoffs (.528 last year). It’s a good skill to help a bad offense rise to mediocre, but it really caps your ceiling and does pretty much nothing to help a contender.

I honestly don't really see any evidence that Simmons is a better scorer or offensive player than a healthy Wall.

Simmons in the playoffs averaged 16ppg/9apg on 54% TS. Wall over his last 19 playoffs games (last two seasons) has averaged 26ppg/10apg on 54% TS.

Simmons in the regular season averaged 16ppg on .557 TS, Wall's last regular healthy season averaged 23ppg on 54% TS with 11apg.

Simmons certainly has a much stronger upside. But Wall has been pretty fantastic in his last two playoff runs. In his series against Atlanta he averaged 30/10 on 59% TS with 42 points on a game 6 closeout game on the road.

Wall although not as efficient as Simmons inside the arc, is at least a respectable spot-up 3-point shooter also.

Well, if you select hard for Wall’s one season where he was statistically much better than any other season which isn’t even his last season he’s obviously gonna look better. I think it’s really a reach though to say that Wall’s age 26 season is much more predictive of his future performance than his 22-25 seasons + his age 27 season which are all close to identical statistically.

Then when you factor in how much his game relies on athleticism, that his impact stats peaked 4 seasons ago, and the fact that sometimes players you know continue to play worse after an injury, I think it’s much more likely that he declines in 2018/19 than that he improves in the coming season.

I actually think his age 26 season was a breakthrough season in both regular season and playoff performance. And I'm under the impression that Wall was hurt last season (his age 27 season) and will return to his 2017 form for the rest of his prime years. In the playoffs after coming back from injury he looked basically like his 2017 form. I don't see his athletecism declining yet, but I can accept the assumption that under that pretense he would decline this year. I guess we'll see soon enough.