Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[Hair Canada]

A (long!) article in the French Canadian media about the team and the game. Pretty interesting read. Some of the highlights are that Rana as coach was only decided very late in the game and that we shouldn't expect a full house on Thursday (says it would have been if RJ was playing). Also goes back to the issue of commitment to the team.

https://www.rds.ca/basketball/le-malaise-de-l-equipe-canadienne-1.6366554

Good read but once again Canadian media fails to see all the core issues. At least mention the pressure these guys are under not to play by NBA and EuroLeague clubs. Maybe if they looked around at the other rosters in the world and see how few NBA players are playing, the media would find something to be cheery about. Or hey... look at the Brazilian roster, you know - the team we are playing and ask why they are missing all of their 4-5 NBA players? Or how about Euro clubs releasing guys two days before games start?

FIBA, the NBA, the European clubs - no one is making this easy on the players.

To some extent, you are right of course. One could (and should) talk about the wonderful consistent commitment from the likes of Olynyk, CoJo, and TT.

But part of me also likes how they hold players' feet to the fire. At least it shows that people care. If no one cared, I'd be more concerned. Also, there's something about what he says regarding someone like Wiggins. He's just entering now the first year of his huge contract. This is probably the best situation to actually come. And it could basically mean one week if he wanted it to be that way (similar to Pangos). Even if the Timberwolves would not be happy about it, I'm sure he would be able to do it if he insisted. If Olynyk can come twice this summer, why can't Wiggins show up once? And he could actually be a difference maker given how thin we are on the wings.

[TrueNorth31]

Well put Hair Canada. We Canadians are a strange lot, always seeing the glass half empty - must be the weather. We should really celebrate more the guys who always answer the call instead of lamenting those not there.

Grange has his latest up;

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/canada-hoping-take-advantage-nba-talent-brazil/

[TrueNorth31]

Here's Doug Smith's latest ( another writer who gets it).

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2018/09/11/canada-doesnt-have-to-ask-kelly-olynyk-or-joel-anthony-twice.html

[SharoneWright]

Well put Hair Canada. We Canadians are a strange lot, always seeing the glass half empty - must be the weather. We should really celebrate more the guys who always answer the call instead of lamenting those not there.

I heard Wiggins blamed the weather.

[SharoneWright]

Here's Doug Smith's latest ( another writer who gets it).

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2018/09/11/canada-doesnt-have-to-ask-kelly-olynyk-or-joel-anthony-twice.html

I'm sorry, I don't know if you are trolling or legitimately new.

Doug Smith gets nothing.

Joel Anthony only answered the bell because someone with better hearing told him it had rung.

CANADA should expect commitment from all our best. Like Spain had. And if we can't get it, we need to change the culture. Jay and Steve can't ride their reputation much longer without better enthusiasm from our stable of studs. The "Golden Age" of Canadian basketball has so far produced nothing on the international stage (minus the youngins). Bupkis. A phantom. But hey! There's Joel Anthony again! LOL

[mojo13]

Here's Doug Smith's latest ( another writer who gets it).

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2018/09/11/canada-doesnt-have-to-ask-kelly-olynyk-or-joel-anthony-twice.html

I'm sorry, I don't know if you are trolling or legitimately new.

Doug Smith gets nothing.

Joel Anthony only answered the bell because someone with better hearing told him it had rung.

CANADA should expect commitment from all our best. Like Spain had. And if we can't get it, we need to change the culture. Jay and Steve can't ride their reputation much longer without better enthusiasm from our stable of studs. The "Golden Age" of Canadian basketball has so far produced nothing on the international stage (minus the youngins). Bupkis. A phantom. But hey! There's Joel Anthony again! LOL

The Grange piece was very good. He gets it.

Doug Smith though....it's as if he doesn't realize having the corpse of Joel Anthony on the team highlights the problems. Did he not watch Anthony's last few stints with Team Canada?. Anthony brings no value to the team - especially with TT and Birch already there. And I can name 10-15 Canadian bigs I'd rather have before him - (an in camp Kyle Landry for one). But I digress....


I do think some of you fail to appreciate the individual situations certain players are dealing with. Without knowing the relationship between player/club/agent/contract I find it hard to rip on guys like Wiggins too relentlessly. What if CoJo, TT, KO negotiated clauses in their contract to allow to play like Pangos supposed did? What if Wiggins, Murray, Stauskas didnt? Each plays for a different team which may approach FIBA participation differently (and for different players). Some clubs could view FIBA games a terrible risk (we know Mark Cuban is very vocal about it) - where other may not be too bothered by it (the vast minority, if any). Some clubs may not want certain players playing (max contracts, rookie scale high potential guys - like Murray or Wiggins) whereas they may be ok with rotation guys or even think it is good for their development. Certain guys may have agents highly encouraging them not to play. I've seen Giannis for years say he wants to play for Greece and publicly commit to playing, only to eventually buckle under pressure from the Bucks. This all comically plays out in the Greek media and on other international message boards. Same scenario is playing out with Jokic and the Nuggets recently (many other examples). The difference with them and Wiggins is that they publicly state their desire to play for their country where Wiggins doesn't - but they have basketball mad media hounding them for that type of message (Canada doesn't).
What's the explanation for Powell not playing this window? Clearly he is committed to the program and is secure in his contract. Occam's razor say the Mav's just put too much pressure on him and he or the Mavs cant say that. For those unaware the FIBA & NBA have a written agreement where the NBA can not ban players from playing FIBA events. But in practice if your team doesn't want you to play - you are not playing. But no one can say that publicly so we hear BS excuses like someone has the "flu" (I think the Grizz pulled the plug on Brooks playing last minute).

I just think we need to consider the individual circumstance of these guys before we completely write them off or label Joel Anthony a national hero because he was never good enough for any NBA team to bother asking him not to play.

[Hair Canada]

mojo, I get what you are saying, and there's certainly some truth to it. But I still think players' motivation matters a lot here. both CoJo and Olynyk moved between NBA teams and were able to show up regardless of the team. You would think that at least one of these teams would be quite resistant and put pressure on them if that's the case. TT has been a starter on a team that has made it to the finals the last 4 years and he has a very big contract. Two years ago, he finished playing in June and was with team Canada a month later after having the longest season of any Canadian player that year.

So I think when Wiggins just keeps quiet and then doesn't show up to anything for three years, that's telling and he's rightfully criticized for it. Team pressure or not, those players who really want to come, usually do.

Now, I think you are right about not writing anyone off. We should keep perspective here -- it's only the national team and eventually, players are entitled to decide that they don't want to participate. Really not the end of the world. But, as I said, I don't mind it when he gets some s**t about it. Shows that people care.

P.S. I don't think we need to doubt that Brooks is really sick. He showed up to the games just a few months ago, so why not this time. If Memphis were not worried then, why would they suddenly pull the plug now?

[BilboBanginz]

Read on Twitter

[duppyy]

Wow, wasn't expecting that.

[mojo13]

mojo, I get what you are saying, and there's certainly some truth to it. But I still think players' motivation matters a lot here. both CoJo and Olynyk moved between NBA teams and were able to show up regardless of the team. You would think that at least one of these teams would be quite resistant and put pressure on them if that's the case. TT has been a starter on a team that has made it to the finals the last 4 years and he has a very big contract. Two years ago, he finished playing in June and was with team Canada a month later after having the longest season of any Canadian player that year.

So I think when Wiggins just keeps quiet and then doesn't show up to anything for three years, that's telling and he's rightfully criticized for it. Team pressure or not, those players who really want to come, usually do.

Now, I think you are right about not writing anyone off. We should keep perspective here -- it's only the national team and eventually, players are entitled to decide that they don't want to participate. Really not the end of the world. But, as I said, I don't mind it when he gets some s**t about it. Shows that people care.

P.S. I don't think we need to doubt that Brooks is really sick. He showed up to the games just a few months ago, so why not this time. If Memphis were not worried then, why would they suddenly pull the plug now?

Hair - I very much agree with you. Clearly KO, CoJo, TT and others sure seem more motivated to play than a guy like Wiggins. And Wiggins deserves criticism. I just think it is more nuanced and not as black and white as the general public thinks. And I disagree that players who want to come usually do - I see real pressure from NBA and Euro clubs not to play. Clearly Murray, Powell, Brooks all wanted to play....maybe not enough to force a showdown with their clubs, but if the clubs were supportive of them playing FIBA, my bet is they would be playing.

With Brooks - to me it looks like the Grizz didnt really prefer him to play from the get go. Maybe not to the Murray/Wiggins level, but were semi against it, but couldn't force him not to. So the first minor issue that came up was a great excuse to pull the plug.
We have seen it with other NBA players - they publicly state they are playing and then pull out late citing an injury (typically it is a very minor issue if anything truthful all). Brooks may have played in July (Powell) too - but we are now weeks away from the start of the season, many guys are in town and training and at this time of year clubs should be extra concerned about the health and status of their assets.

[mojo13]

Read on Twitter

We heard rumors of this for awhile. They were semi squashed when he took a consulting role with the Grizzlies a few weeks ago but it looks like he can do both (wonder if this was the final pressure point on Brooks to not play?).

What do you guys think of this move? I am not overly familiar with him as the Raps and Knicks have never been teams I've been historically interested in.

[TrueNorth31]

Grange is killing it today - story on New Basketball Canada CEO Glen Grunwald.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/grunwald-hiring-checks-canada-basketballs-boxes/

As well he talks to Pangos about his trip over here.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/kevin-pangos-primed-long-awaited-return-canadas-smnt/

[GoRaptors]

Roster is announced

Aaron Best Guard 6'4"
Khem Birch Centre 6'9"
Manny Diressa Guard 6’4”
Melvin Ejim Forward 6'6"
Brady Heslip Guard 6'2"
Justin Jackson Forward 6'7"
Cory Joseph Guard 6'3"
Kaza Kajami-Keane Guard 6'2"
Kelly Olynyk Centre 7'0"
Kevin Pangos Guard 6’2”
Dyshawn Pierre Forward 6’6”
Tristan Thompson Forward 6'9"


http://www.basketball.ca/en/news-article/roster-announced-for-thursdays-fiba-basketball-world-cup-2019-am

[frumble]

Six guards and Bell-Haynes can't make it? Is Diressa really better than him?

[WellYouKnow]

Six guards and Bell-Haynes can't make it? Is Diressa really better than him?

Played for Rana for like 5 years and on the SMNT before. Taller too. Better for the 3 guard lineups i'm guessing

Would rather Bell-haynes as well but im guessing those are the reasons he got picked.

[GoRaptors]

I guess the staff realized that they could not afford to include Joel Anthony

Interesting tweet from Lori Ewing

Lori Ewing
‏Verified account @Ewingsports
Sep 11

RJ Barrett en route to Montreal. Duke has shut down due to approaching hurricane. Can’t play Thursday but will be with Cdn team in support.

[And1Skip]

I feel bad for Duane Notice. He's always on the preliminary list for the last couple of years but never actually makes the final cut. He works hard though but I think he just doesn't have a respectable shot (never did in college and I guess still doesnt). Keep gridin.

[frumble]

Six guards and Bell-Haynes can't make it? Is Diressa really better than him?

Played for Rana for like 5 years and on the SMNT before. Taller too. Better for the 3 guard lineups i'm guessing

Would rather Bell-haynes as well but im guessing those are the reasons he got picked.

Yeah, I know about the conflict of interest re Rana and Diressa.
Would be nice to have a coach who does not have relatives or former/current players competing for spots.


And1Skip,
I feel bad for Notice too. His shooting is poor, but the last guard role is pretty specialized, and I would think a guy with his defensive abilities might have been a good choice.


So what do you guys think re playing time?

[GoRaptors]

I think they start Cory Joseph, Kevin Pangos, Melvin Ejim, Kelly Olynyk and Tristan Thompson
second unit is Kajami- Keane, Heslip, Jackson, Pierre and Birch

[mojo13]

I think they start Cory Joseph, Kevin Pangos, Melvin Ejim, Kelly Olynyk and Tristan Thompson
second unit is Kajami- Keane, Heslip, Jackson, Pierre and Birch

I’m really at a loss to what they do with this SF issue.
We’ve seen three guard line ups in the past. We have also sometimes seen Ejim or Pierre play SF but it has been rare. They are both PFs first.
I think we will see both scenarios - as we pretty much have to.

I’m not sure Pangos starts after only 2 days with the team, but hoping I am wrong. He will see big minutes regardless.
Justin Jackson is a complete unknown and a PF to me until he proves he can play SF. I’d be surprised if he contributes much at all. We know what Keane and Best bring and it will be support roles.

But who starts?
We know it will be KO, TT, CoJo. After that, I think it is Heslip and Ejim. Rana started Heslip last November and Ejim is a top 4-5 player and needs to be out there. And I kept seeng those 5 on the floor together this week in the pictures of training camp. But that was before Pangos got there.
Pangos spells off Heslip and then takes on PG duties when CoJo comes out? I think CoJo and Pangos can easily share the floor together - they should see the most guard minutes.
Birch is the primary interior big after Thompson. But Ejim and maybe Pierre will need to see PF minutes too.

I just don’t see an obvious three guard lineup. CoJo, Pangos, Heslip together seems vulnerable on D. Does Best need to be in there to provide some D? I really don’t know what we have with Diressa.


It will be interesting to see.