Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[Samurai_Raps]

Thanks for all the hard work GoRaptors. I agree it looks promising , but I still worry about collusion to a degree between the Latin American countries. They don't particularly like each other, but they all hate and fear us even more. Also I'm concerned how the quasi - eliminated teams react, do they send high school players? We still need to try to get 2 wins ( or the point differential against Brazil). If we'd lost to Brazil or Chile, boy we'd be in tough.

Here's Doug Smith's game review;

https://www.thestar.com/sports/basketball/2018/09/17/makeshift-canadian-lineup-thumps-chile-in-fiba-world-cup-qualifying.html

I can't see anyone colluding against us at this point. The overall odds are stacked for us to make it. In addition, our destiny is in our hands, we just have to win..maybe 1 or 2 and that seals it, no matter what anyone else does.

Just one time, i would love to see our entire best lineup...I'm not sure this will ever happen however given contract issues and other things.

[frumble]

Even if the Latin American countries risk their own interest to collude against us, as long as US beats Uruguay we are ok. (assuming we beat Chile). So, while it is not quite 100% that we are in, it is very, very close.

Re us every having our best possible team, no, I don't think we will ever see it.
There will always be an injury, contract issue, or player who just doesn't want to play.
Even in hockey, where pro league cooperation and pressure to participate is much higher, I don't think Canada has ever iced its best possible team.

However, with the depth we are developing, we should be able to field a very strong team even when participation among our top players is not quite 100%.


Anyone following the European qualifiers? Any surprises so far? I see that Slovenia is 2-6 and looks very unlikely to make it. Czechs are 7-1 and have clinched. Finland is 4-4 and is in decent shape.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Anyone following the European qualifiers? Any surprises so far? I see that Slovenia is 2-6 and looks very unlikely to make it. Czechs are 7-1 and have clinched. Finland is 4-4 and is in decent shape.

Yeah, Slovenia likely not qualifying is a bit of an upset. Remember that they won the EuroBasket just last year. In my opinion, this would remove one top level team that could challenge in the quarters or semis in the World Cup. The downside for basketball fans, of course, is that it denies us the chance to see Dragic and Doncic work their magic together again, especially as Doncic is only going to keep getting better. But that's another downside of the new qualification system. With their best players, Slovenia is obviously good enough to qualify, and should be there. But because of this system, we'll now miss out on seeing them there.

As for someone's comment about Canada's team and our lack of impact players - sure, we won't have an All-NBA player on the roster, but I think we'll find by next year in the World Cup that Jamal Murray will absolutely be an impact player at that level. His game seems perfectly suited to dominate FIBA ball. With him and Olynyk on the court at the same time, another guy whose game is suited to FIBA ball, teams are going to have a very tough time with us. It should be fun!

[Hair Canada]

Greetings all, I have a question....

Obviously Canadian basketball is at a real pinnacle in terms of player development, that being said it’s a bit disappointing to see us never, not even once, field our best team.

That being said, assuming every country in the worlds roster is completely healthy and without hold outs, where would Canada rank in comparison to everyone else?

Top 5? Top 10? And who’s definitively better.

I think that's an excellent question agkagk. Here's a list of foreign NBA players.

http://pr.nba.com/nba-international-players-2017-18/

It's a hard question to answer as many European teams have very good Euroleague level players as well, and have the advantage of playing together much more often.

I'd have us if we had a good turn out in a group that includes in no particular order ( behind the Americans)


- France
- Serbia
- Australia
- Lithuania

I think Spain is trending downwards. The Greeks are good enough to be in the top group with the Freak if all breaks well.

The thing Canada doesn't have ( besides lots of experience playing together) - is an impact star. Lot's of solid players, but no Goat. Some people believe Rowan Barrett could be that guy eventually.

That's a good answer. Although I think we might have the highest degree of raw talent, except for the US and maybe Australia, I also think a medal in either the WC or the Olympics would be quite surprising.

In addition to the 5 teams mentioned above (Australia, France, Serbia, Lithuania, and Greece), I would also add Croatia (Saric, Hezonia, Bogdanovic, Bender) and Spain, who might be somewhat declining, but should still be very strong next year and in the 2020 Olympics (the Gasols, Rubio, Mirotic, Hernangomez, Rodriquez). Even teams like Turkey (Osman, Ilyasova, Korkmaz, and others) or Germany (Schroder, Theis, Wagner, and others) might pose a serious threat.

All of these teams have a few important advantages over us:

1. Their top guys have likely played together much more often than ours.
2. Most of their players are more accustomed to playing with FIBA rules
3. They all have more experience in international competitions and tournaments like the WC and the Olympics

And so, as I've said before, I think in this cycle we won't be medal favorites, although talent-wise are certainly already there and it wouldn't be shocking if we manage to win one.

[Samurai_Raps]

So just for fun..what is Canada's top Roster/lineup? ..disregarding matchup
What is Canada's Dream Team..
off the top of my head:

Starters:

C: Tristan Thompson
PF: Kelly Olynk
SF: Andrew Wiggins
SG: Jamal Murray
PG: Corey Joseph

Backup:
C: Dwight Powell
PF: Trey Lyles
SF: RJ Barrett
SG: Dillon Brooks
PG: Kevin Pangos

Bench: Shai Gilgeous Alexander? Chris Boucher
Stauskas? Who am I missing that deserves to be on the dream team roster based on talent alone? Who would you choose?

Its mind boggling looking at all this talent we have...

[InfraRedshaw]

So just for fun..what is Canada's top Roster/lineup? ..disregarding matchup
What is Canada's Dream Team..
off the top of my head:

Starters:

C: Tristan Thompson
PF: Kelly Olynk
SF: Andrew Wiggins
SG: Jamal Murray
PG: Corey Joseph

Backup:
C: Dwight Powell
PF: Trey Lyles
SF: RJ Barrett
SG: Dillon Brooks
PG: Kevin Pangos

Bench: Shai Gilgeous Alexander? Chris Boucher
Stauskas? Who am I missing that deserves to be on the dream team roster based on talent alone? Who would you choose?

Its mind boggling looking at all this talent we have...

I'd probably go
PG Murray
SG Barrett
SF Wiggins
PF Olyknyk (sp?)
C Powell

[TrueNorth31]

Lots of good dialogue. I'm probably overstating the collusion aspect, but I've heard lots of negative stories from insiders with our national team over the years when in Latin America as it's a whole different world down there. The same night we play Venezuela down there in the next window, Brazil plays D.R. at home - Brazil will want to win that one badly as they are only a game up on them ( they play us at home a few nights later) so if D.R. loses and we beat Chile later in February ( or anybody else) we are in.

[Hair Canada]

For me, depending on how he continues to develop this year, there's a good chance that SGA would already be a better player than Pangos by next year's WC. The main reason is defense. Pangos is just a weak defender from everything I've seen. A backcourt of him together with other weak defenders, like Murray and Wiggins, would be problematic. Otherwise, I quite like this "dream team", though I'd want to save a spot for Ejim, both because I like his game and his fit next to NBA stars, and because of the commitment to the team that he's shown throughout the years.

[TrueNorth31]

I'd agree that Murray is on the cusp of being a difference maker ( although he needs to be a better defender as Hair points out - in the bottom 10% of the league per synergy data).

I'm not sure we'll ever see our potential Dream Team ( well maybe for the Olympics as many players have that on their bucket list) as Peter Yannopoulos pointed out in a tweet earlier some players were upset even in Montreal over their lack of playing time.

If you have 12 NBA guys - in most tight games coaches only go 8-9 deep max, so you'll always have some players angry about their playing time. Trust me I'm the worst offender in the world at thinking this way, but in reality most International teams for chemistry reasons have some guys like the Scrubb's , Best or Ejim at the 10-12 roster spots. The Americans because they crush everybody can afford a deep roster and play most of their guys somewhat, I'm not so sure were so dominant we can do that.

I don't think we'd outright cut NBA players or top Euroleaguers for that matter, but before they came to camp the coach/GM is going to have some long discussions with many of our NBA players and their agents about how they fit into our top group and if they'd accept a reduced role and frankly I think some won't be happy.

[Hungry]

So just for fun..what is Canada's top Roster/lineup? ..disregarding matchup
What is Canada's Dream Team..
off the top of my head:

Starters:

C: Tristan Thompson
PF: Kelly Olynk
SF: Andrew Wiggins
SG: Jamal Murray
PG: Corey Joseph

Backup:
C: Dwight Powell
PF: Trey Lyles
SF: RJ Barrett
SG: Dillon Brooks
PG: Kevin Pangos

Bench: Shai Gilgeous Alexander? Chris Boucher
Stauskas? Who am I missing that deserves to be on the dream team roster based on talent alone? Who would you choose?

Its mind boggling looking at all this talent we have...

I feel you're on point with your 10 listed guys and wouldn't suggest any changes. To fill out the roster depending on roster construction preferences you'd take two of Shai (or another PG), Stauskas or Heslip (not both), Ejim, Birch. I'd probably go Birch and Heslip personally as I want end of bench guys filling a particular niche.

In terms of actually sending a Dream Team, it's virtually impossible for any nation to send their 12 best players at any one moment in time due to injuries, contract issues etc. For all intents and purposes the 2015 team was a Canadian dream team, almost every country would be more than pleased with that level of turnout for even an Olympics or World Cup. Missing Tristan, maybe Murray (going into freshman year) and I feel there was maybe someone else?

[TrueNorth31]

So just for fun..what is Canada's top Roster/lineup? ..disregarding matchup
What is Canada's Dream Team..
off the top of my head:

Starters:

C: Tristan Thompson
PF: Kelly Olynk
SF: Andrew Wiggins
SG: Jamal Murray
PG: Corey Joseph

Backup:
C: Dwight Powell
PF: Trey Lyles
SF: RJ Barrett
SG: Dillon Brooks
PG: Kevin Pangos

Bench: Shai Gilgeous Alexander? Chris Boucher
Stauskas? Who am I missing that deserves to be on the dream team roster based on talent alone? Who would you choose?

Its mind boggling looking at all this talent we have...

I like your list quite a bit - Ennis and Birch could be added as potentials to that group.

I'd move up SGA over Pangos and would hope he'd accept being the 11 man-Ejim would be on my squad as well.

It would be interesting if you could ever get a team like this to all buy in, but as I elaborated I'm just not sure it'll happen.

[super_balls]

So just for fun..what is Canada's top Roster/lineup? ..disregarding matchup
What is Canada's Dream Team..
off the top of my head:

Starters:

C: Tristan Thompson
PF: Kelly Olynk
SF: Andrew Wiggins
SG: Jamal Murray
PG: Corey Joseph

Backup:
C: Dwight Powell
PF: Trey Lyles
SF: RJ Barrett
SG: Dillon Brooks
PG: Kevin Pangos

Bench: Shai Gilgeous Alexander? Chris Boucher
Stauskas? Who am I missing that deserves to be on the dream team roster based on talent alone? Who would you choose?

Its mind boggling looking at all this talent we have...

I feel you're on point with your 10 listed guys and wouldn't suggest any changes. To fill out the roster depending on roster construction preferences you'd take two of Shai (or another PG), Stauskas or Heslip (not both), Ejim, Birch. I'd probably go Birch and Heslip personally as I want end of bench guys filling a particular niche.

In terms of actually sending a Dream Team, it's virtually impossible for any nation to send their 12 best players at any one moment in time due to injuries, contract issues etc. For all intents and purposes the 2015 team was a Canadian dream team, almost every country would be more than pleased with that level of turnout for even an Olympics or World Cup. Missing Tristan, maybe Murray (going into freshman year) and I feel there was maybe someone else?

Shai is 100% better than Pangos and will likely take over Corey in the next few years. Mark my words.

[aminiaturebuddha]

I agree that we'll never see the absolute best team possible, just because of injuries, contract situations, etc.

However, setting aside those questions, most of the players have shown at least some commitment to the team over the past few years, and so, especially when it comes to the Olympics, I believe we should be able to field a team that at least has 9 or 10 of our top 12 players.

Of that list, to me, the big question marks right now are Wiggins and Lyles. It's no secret that Wiggins has some lingering issues with coaching (and maybe even management) after the 2015 Americas tournament, and hasn't played since. And Lyles hasn't played for the national team since 2013, when he and Tyler Ennis were leading Canada to a 6th place finish at the U19 World Championship. I would have felt a lot better about his commitment to the program if he would have shown up in some capacity this summer, even if only to practice at training camp.

As for my "dream team" if everyone was available, I think it would look something like this:
C - Olynyk
F - Lyles
F - Wiggins
G - Murray
G - Joseph
C - Powell
F - Thompson
F - Brooks
G - Barrett
G - Pangos
C - Birch
G - Gilgeous-Alexander

But it would be really tough to leave Ejim off the roster as well, so the final spot would come down to him and Birch.

[Hungry]

So just for fun..what is Canada's top Roster/lineup? ..disregarding matchup
What is Canada's Dream Team..
off the top of my head:

Starters:

C: Tristan Thompson
PF: Kelly Olynk
SF: Andrew Wiggins
SG: Jamal Murray
PG: Corey Joseph

Backup:
C: Dwight Powell
PF: Trey Lyles
SF: RJ Barrett
SG: Dillon Brooks
PG: Kevin Pangos

Bench: Shai Gilgeous Alexander? Chris Boucher
Stauskas? Who am I missing that deserves to be on the dream team roster based on talent alone? Who would you choose?

Its mind boggling looking at all this talent we have...

I feel you're on point with your 10 listed guys and wouldn't suggest any changes. To fill out the roster depending on roster construction preferences you'd take two of Shai (or another PG), Stauskas or Heslip (not both), Ejim, Birch. I'd probably go Birch and Heslip personally as I want end of bench guys filling a particular niche.

In terms of actually sending a Dream Team, it's virtually impossible for any nation to send their 12 best players at any one moment in time due to injuries, contract issues etc. For all intents and purposes the 2015 team was a Canadian dream team, almost every country would be more than pleased with that level of turnout for even an Olympics or World Cup. Missing Tristan, maybe Murray (going into freshman year) and I feel there was maybe someone else?

Shai is 100% better than Pangos and will likely take over Corey in the next few years. Mark my words.

Is he right now at age 20 a better FIBA PG for Canada taking into account roster fit? I definitely lean conservative and acknowledge he certainly could be at present but I wouldn't say it's 100% one way or the other. It's mostly irrelevant though as if he is good enough at present to be backup PG you'd still carry Pangos in the 11/12 spot as a shooter/3rd PG. Would be excellent if he can take over as starting PG in the next few years, I'm hoping he's got a long successful career ahead of him.

[Pooh_Jeter]

I'd go with something like...

Thompson
Olynyk
Wiggins
Murray
CoJo

Powell
Lyles
Brooks
Barrett
SGA

Ejim
Probably Pangos

I just can't see leaving Ejim off the team because he has proven whether he is a role player or one of the lead dogs that his impact on the team is incredible. I think he can absolutely make this team on his merits as a player alone, but when you add in the sacrifices he has made for Canada Basketball and the absolute commitment he has shown I think it's a no brainer.

The crazy part is that in 4 years the best case team is likely leaving NBA players off the team and in 8 years that is basically a guarantee. If you were to make a best case scenario B team (kind of like Canada does for hockey) I feel like that team would fare pretty damn well too. The way the depth of this program has developed has been astounding. When you look at the NCAA ranks we aren't just looking at 1 or 2 lottery tickets who could be impact players down the road, there is NBA or high level Europe potential all over the place.

[frumble]

Trying to get a very early sense of availability for next September.

Of all the guys listed above, are any on contracts that expire next summer?

I guess Barrett is likely to be unavailable next summer, as incoming NBA rookies almost never play FIBA.

[mojo13]

Trying to get a very early sense of availability for next September.

Of all the guys listed above, are any on contracts that expire next summer?

I guess Barrett is likely to be unavailable next summer, as incoming NBA rookies almost never play FIBA.

Not always true with rookies. Lots or European examples of incoming NBA rookies playing FIBA. Musa just played for Bosnia.
Just no real Canadian examples. Barrett of anyone could break that trend with his ties to the program.

As for free agents next summer. Trey Lyles and Khem Birch will be RFAs and Cory Joseph will be a UFA. I think Ejim’s contract will expire next summer as well.
After that I think everyone else is locked through the 19/20 season.


But the WCs don’t start until August 31, so this likely won’t be an issue, right?

[bozothepope]

So what are the odds of us qualifying now? This whole process confuses me. Someone give me some good news.

[Samurai_Raps]

So what are the odds of us qualifying now? This whole process confuses me. Someone give me some good news.

You'll read a lot of scenarios in the previous threads, but the bottom line is we have a very high chance of qualifying at this point. Its not guaranteed, but a lot of different things would have to happen for us not to qualify. In addition, 1 (or maybe 2) more wins and we lock it in..so our destiny is in our hands

[slothrop8]

So what are the odds of us qualifying now? This whole process confuses me. Someone give me some good news.

I'd guesstimate our chances of qualifying at around 90% at this point - maybe higher.