Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[Ruzious]

That’s fairly shortsighted. “It fixes the long term cap problem, but it’s an unnecessary step backwards” ....alrighty.

And come on, when will you learn that “shot creators” are usually just really bad players that do fancy dribbles and chuck a lot of bad shots. Austin Rivers is terrible. He is not better at creating off the dribble than Otto and Sato just because he takes more shots than them lol.

You might think Wall is one of the top PGs in the league now, but how good is he going to be when he’s 30 years old making 40 million a year? How is he going to age?

And the suckitude comment is just based on nothing whatsoever.

There are some players who can shoot off the dribble and pretty much can't catch and shoot to save your life. Rivers is one of them. And those stats have been posted here. What DCZards said there was correct. And there are other players like that who are better than Rivers. Gilbert Arenas was much better isoing off the dribble as were many of the great guards.

Thank you for that brilliant insight.

I will add- there are some players who post a career TS% of .506. Averaging 9.4 points per game on 8.4 shots!!!!!!!!!! Wow! Not to mention the 3 whole rebounds per 36.

So his strength must be defense right? Right??!!

Point being, if he and the Wiz play up to his strenghts and avoid his weaknesses to an extent, he can be a more effective player and perhaps a useful player.

[pcbothwel]

I see the Wizards doing everything to get under the luxury tax in 19-20. Unless the Wizards have completely gone down in flames by the all-star break, I seriously doubt Ernie/Ted blows things up or sacrifices assets to get under the tax this season.

This season is the Wizards version of "going all in".

If anything, the Wizards may swap Mahinmi's deal and the '19 1st round pick for an expiring contract that can contribute at the deadline as a way to add that missing piece for this season and get under the luxury tax for next season.

I think there's literally no chance they get under the lux tax in 2018/19 - once they chose not to stretch Mahinmi. Sac is the ONLY team with current significant cap space, and even they don't have enough to take all of Manhini's contract without us taking about $5 mil in contracts from them. And with the multiplier effect next season, if they're in lux tax land next season, they'll get hit hard as hell.

I dont buy it. Walls increased salary and our need to retain at least one of Sato and Oubre will put us in the tax next year.
The Kings are desperately trying to get a 1st for their cap space, and we should give it to them.
Rivers and our 1st for Mason/Skal and a 2nd works fine. (See my solution in trade board)

Kings have 3 2nds next year all in the 40's. We get one of those and get under the tax while maintaining roster size.
IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. Without Mahinmi and our 1st, we only have 5 players next year and 30M to retain Oubre, Sato, and add 7 players... Its not happening.

Think long term. Getting under this year lets us go over next year. A 118M cap in 20/21 will allow us to stay under the tax in 20/21... We can go back over in 21/22 if need be.
This is a formula to keep this team together for the foreseeable future and disband it for cheaper assets/rebuild as we see fit, not dictated by finances.

[Ruzious]

I see the Wizards doing everything to get under the luxury tax in 19-20. Unless the Wizards have completely gone down in flames by the all-star break, I seriously doubt Ernie/Ted blows things up or sacrifices assets to get under the tax this season.

This season is the Wizards version of "going all in".

If anything, the Wizards may swap Mahinmi's deal and the '19 1st round pick for an expiring contract that can contribute at the deadline as a way to add that missing piece for this season and get under the luxury tax for next season.

I think there's literally no chance they get under the lux tax in 2018/19 - once they chose not to stretch Mahinmi. Sac is the ONLY team with current significant cap space, and even they don't have enough to take all of Manhini's contract without us taking about $5 mil in contracts from them. And with the multiplier effect next season, if they're in lux tax land next season, they'll get hit hard as hell.

I dont buy it. Walls increased salary and our need to retain at least one of Sato and Oubre will put us in the tax next year.
The Kings are desperately trying to get a 1st for their cap space, and we should give it to them.
Rivers and our 1st for Mason/Skal and a 2nd works fine. (See my solution in trade board)

Kings have 3 2nds next year all in the 40's. We get one of those and get under the tax while maintaining roster size.
IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. Without Mahinmi and our 1st, we only have 5 players next year and 30M to retain Oubre, Sato, and add 7 players... Its not happening.

Think long term. Getting under this year lets us go over next year. A 118M cap in 20/21 will allow us to stay under the tax in 20/21... We can go back over in 21/22 if need be.
This is a formula to keep this team together for the foreseeable future and disband it for cheaper assets/rebuild as we see fit, not dictated by finances.

I think it's silly to assume we'll be able to make a deal with Sac - considering they'll get a lot of offers from other teams to use that cap space, and again - even if we are able to make a deal with them, it probably won't - by itself - get us under the lux tax cap. Sac might be able to get a couple of 1sts for their cap space and might not have to take on a contract that has another 16 mil on it for next season. I'd bet the wife and kids the Wiz don't get it done with Sac.

[pcbothwel]

I think there's literally no chance they get under the lux tax in 2018/19 - once they chose not to stretch Mahinmi. Sac is the ONLY team with current significant cap space, and even they don't have enough to take all of Manhini's contract without us taking about $5 mil in contracts from them. And with the multiplier effect next season, if they're in lux tax land next season, they'll get hit hard as hell.

I dont buy it. Walls increased salary and our need to retain at least one of Sato and Oubre will put us in the tax next year.
The Kings are desperately trying to get a 1st for their cap space, and we should give it to them.
Rivers and our 1st for Mason/Skal and a 2nd works fine. (See my solution in trade board)

Kings have 3 2nds next year all in the 40's. We get one of those and get under the tax while maintaining roster size.
IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. Without Mahinmi and our 1st, we only have 5 players next year and 30M to retain Oubre, Sato, and add 7 players... Its not happening.

Think long term. Getting under this year lets us go over next year. A 118M cap in 20/21 will allow us to stay under the tax in 20/21... We can go back over in 21/22 if need be.
This is a formula to keep this team together for the foreseeable future and disband it for cheaper assets/rebuild as we see fit, not dictated by finances.

I think it's silly to assume we'll be able to make a deal with Sac - considering they'll get a lot of offers from other teams to use that cap space, and again - even if we are able to make a deal with them, it probably won't - by itself - get us under the lux tax cap. Sac might be able to get a couple of 1sts for their cap space and might not have to take on a contract that has another 16 mil on it for next season. I'd bet the wife and kids the Wiz don't get it done with Sac.

I think you need to read my trade proposal more closely. Im trading them Rivers, not Mahinmi.
You say they will get plenty of offers... Really...From where???
Who is going to give them a 2019 1st for taking on expiring salary?

I got no one chief. The only teams that would do that are teams above the tax. And it would have to be a pick in the 20's as no team would give up a lotto pick to dump 1 year of salary like that.
So who would...let alone could

Houston, Toronto, GSW, and Boston sure as hell wont do that.
Philly, Pacers, NOP, Minny, Utah, Spurs, Cavs, Nuggets, Lakers, and Bucks are below the tax.

The ONLY teams that are hurting with the tax and have salaries to dump are the Heat, OKC and Portland
The heat dont have any big expiring salary to dump.
OKC cant trade their 2019 pick, nor do they have a big expiring salary to dump
Portland has Leonard, Harkless, and Turner... but they all have 2 years left

Like I said...Where are they getting a 1st from?

[Ruzious]

I dont buy it. Walls increased salary and our need to retain at least one of Sato and Oubre will put us in the tax next year.
The Kings are desperately trying to get a 1st for their cap space, and we should give it to them.
Rivers and our 1st for Mason/Skal and a 2nd works fine. (See my solution in trade board)

Kings have 3 2nds next year all in the 40's. We get one of those and get under the tax while maintaining roster size.
IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. Without Mahinmi and our 1st, we only have 5 players next year and 30M to retain Oubre, Sato, and add 7 players... Its not happening.

Think long term. Getting under this year lets us go over next year. A 118M cap in 20/21 will allow us to stay under the tax in 20/21... We can go back over in 21/22 if need be.
This is a formula to keep this team together for the foreseeable future and disband it for cheaper assets/rebuild as we see fit, not dictated by finances.

I think it's silly to assume we'll be able to make a deal with Sac - considering they'll get a lot of offers from other teams to use that cap space, and again - even if we are able to make a deal with them, it probably won't - by itself - get us under the lux tax cap. Sac might be able to get a couple of 1sts for their cap space and might not have to take on a contract that has another 16 mil on it for next season. I'd bet the wife and kids the Wiz don't get it done with Sac.

I think you need to read my trade proposal more closely. Im trading them Rivers, not Mahinmi.
You say they will get plenty of offers... Really...From where???
Who is going to give them a 2019 1st for taking on expiring salary?

I got no one chief. The only teams that would do that are teams above the tax. And it would have to be a pick in the 20's as no team would give up a lotto pick to dump 1 year of salary like that.
So who would...let alone could

Houston, Toronto, GSW, and Boston sure as hell wont do that.
Philly, Pacers, NOP, Minny, Utah, Spurs, Cavs, Nuggets, Lakers, and Bucks are below the tax.

The ONLY teams that are hurting with the tax and have salaries to dump are the Heat, OKC and Portland
The heat dont have any big expiring salary to dump.
OKC cant trade their 2019 pick, nor do they have a big expiring salary to dump
Portland has Leonard, Harkless, and Turner... but they all have 2 years left

Like I said...Where are they getting a 1st from?

Who? Seriously? They're already talking about getting involved as a 3rd team to help work out a Butler trade. They can make multiple trades to end up with more than 1 1st round pick. And there are likely going to be all kinds of opportunities like that throughout the year where 2 teams need another team with cap space to complete a trade. Also, you don't know what moves other teams will make during the year that will affect their lux tax situation. I mean, it's completely absurd to assume there won't be lots of ways Sacramento can use that cap space. And it doesn't matter who you're talking about trading from the Wiz. They're farther away from getting under the lux tax threshold than the cap space Sac has. Trading Rivers would just reduce the lux tax; not eliminate it.

[pcbothwel]

I think it's silly to assume we'll be able to make a deal with Sac - considering they'll get a lot of offers from other teams to use that cap space, and again - even if we are able to make a deal with them, it probably won't - by itself - get us under the lux tax cap. Sac might be able to get a couple of 1sts for their cap space and might not have to take on a contract that has another 16 mil on it for next season. I'd bet the wife and kids the Wiz don't get it done with Sac.

I think you need to read my trade proposal more closely. Im trading them Rivers, not Mahinmi.
You say they will get plenty of offers... Really...From where???
Who is going to give them a 2019 1st for taking on expiring salary?

I got no one chief. The only teams that would do that are teams above the tax. And it would have to be a pick in the 20's as no team would give up a lotto pick to dump 1 year of salary like that.
So who would...let alone could

Houston, Toronto, GSW, and Boston sure as hell wont do that.
Philly, Pacers, NOP, Minny, Utah, Spurs, Cavs, Nuggets, Lakers, and Bucks are below the tax.

The ONLY teams that are hurting with the tax and have salaries to dump are the Heat, OKC and Portland
The heat dont have any big expiring salary to dump.
OKC cant trade their 2019 pick, nor do they have a big expiring salary to dump
Portland has Leonard, Harkless, and Turner... but they all have 2 years left

Like I said...Where are they getting a 1st from?

Who? Seriously? They're already talking about getting involved as a 3rd team to help work out a Butler trade. They can make multiple trades to end up with more than 1 1st round pick. And there are likely going to be all kinds of opportunities like that throughout the year where 2 teams need another team with cap space to complete a trade. Also, you don't know what moves other teams will make during the year that will affect their lux tax situation. I mean, it's completely absurd to assume there won't be lots of ways Sacramento can use that cap space. And it doesn't matter who you're talking about trading from the Wiz. They're farther away from getting under the lux tax threshold than the cap space Sac has. Trading Rivers would just reduce the lux tax; not eliminate it.

Ruz... you're killing me.
Trade: Yes, Sacramento can "Use their cap space in multiple way". But if they want to get a 1st and not take on salary past this year, then its really us.
Also, the Butler trade is quite random at this point in the year. After this, its probably it.
By the deadline, I see the Raptors, Celtics, Warriors, and Rockets pulling away from the the rest of the league and doubt you'll see anything too drastic.

Tax: Ummm. If we trade Rivers for Mason we are under the cap by about 500k. Any other Min player and we are 300k below.
Meeks is suspended for about 19 games and we get half of that back to the cap (about 400k).

[barelyawake]

Lol. Glad to see we’ve learned from past mistakes.

Never change, Wizards.

I Have no idea what that Wall quote was about, but anyone asking John Wall if he’s the 32nd best player in the league better expect a fight (and that’s because of the question not the answer). Stop blaming Wall for the media nonsense.

ESPN ranked the 100 players in the league and had Wall at 32.

Gotcha. So, ESPN criminally underrated Wall (again), so Wall stormed into the press conference and jumped on the table and claimed he was the greatest point in the league? Well, I see how that is troublesome. Because what wouldn’t be troublesome is if Wall was asked directly by a reporter about the criminal underrating of him, and he responded that he thought he should be higher on the list. And then the media used it to write another article where they cut Wall’s disclaimers and self-deprivation out, slap a bunch of exclamation points on his statements and write another clickbait article about how the fictional Wall persona they have created is at it again.

[montestewart]

I Have no idea what that Wall quote was about, but anyone asking John Wall if he’s the 32nd best player in the league better expect a fight (and that’s because of the question not the answer). Stop blaming Wall for the media nonsense.

ESPN ranked the 100 players in the league and had Wall at 32.

Gotcha. So, ESPN criminally underrated Wall (again), so Wall stormed into the press conference and jumped on the table and claimed he was the greatest point in the league? Well, I see how that is troublesome. Because what wouldn’t be troublesome is if Wall was asked directly by a reporter about the criminal underrating of him, and he responded that he thought he should be higher on the list. And then the media used it to write another article where they cut Wall’s disclaimers and self-deprivation out, slap a bunch of exclamation points on his statements and write another clickbait article about how the fictional Wall persona they have created is at it again.

Must-Read Story Headline: "Wall: I Was Misquoted"

[Ruzious]

Hey, Charles Barkley once claimed he was mis-quoted in his own auto-biography, so... I doubt any of those quotes have effected their play - they just look bad when they fail to live upt to them. As long as they work hard to become the best they can, I don't care much what they say - as long as they don't involve their teammates in their comments.

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

This same dynamic could apply to a Wall for Butler trade scenario as well: Wall to Phoenix, Dragic to Minny, Butler to DC. Maybe the Wizards get something extra from Phoenix as well?

[NatP4]

Read on Twitter

This same dynamic could apply to a Wall for Butler trade scenario as well: Wall to Phoenix, Dragic to Minny, Butler to DC. Maybe the Wizards get something extra from Phoenix as well?

Quit dreaming, Nate. The wizards aren’t trading Wall.

[payitforward]

I Have no idea what that Wall quote was about, but anyone asking John Wall if he’s the 32nd best player in the league better expect a fight (and that’s because of the question not the answer). Stop blaming Wall for the media nonsense.

ESPN ranked the 100 players in the league and had Wall at 32.

Gotcha. So, ESPN criminally underrated Wall (again), so Wall stormed into the press conference and jumped on the table and claimed he was the greatest point in the league? Well, I see how that is troublesome. Because what wouldn’t be troublesome is if Wall was asked directly by a reporter about the criminal underrating of him, and he responded that he thought he should be higher on the list. And then the media used it to write another article where they cut Wall’s disclaimers and self-deprivation out, slap a bunch of exclamation points on his statements and write another clickbait article about how the fictional Wall persona they have created is at it again.

You think that at #32 in the league John is "criminally underrated?" Really?

[NatP4]

I’m the resident wall hater, but 32 seems just fine. Lol

[barelyawake]

ESPN ranked the 100 players in the league and had Wall at 32.

Gotcha. So, ESPN criminally underrated Wall (again), so Wall stormed into the press conference and jumped on the table and claimed he was the greatest point in the league? Well, I see how that is troublesome. Because what wouldn’t be troublesome is if Wall was asked directly by a reporter about the criminal underrating of him, and he responded that he thought he should be higher on the list. And then the media used it to write another article where they cut Wall’s disclaimers and self-deprivation out, slap a bunch of exclamation points on his statements and write another clickbait article about how the fictional Wall persona they have created is at it again.

You think that at #32 in the league John is "criminally underrated?" Really?

I really just want to write yes, and leave it at that. Just because you start an argument doesn’t mean you deserve to be afforded my time.

He’s ranked as high as 13 by CBS and 22 by SI. A healthy Wall with a star big receiving his passes is a top 15 player based on who can put a team on his back and lead a team to playoff wins, and that, not regular season stats, is all that matters. PS responding back isn’t going to provoke the attention you want. I’m Swayze

[payitforward]

Gotcha. So, ESPN criminally underrated Wall (again), so Wall stormed into the press conference and jumped on the table and claimed he was the greatest point in the league? Well, I see how that is troublesome. Because what wouldn’t be troublesome is if Wall was asked directly by a reporter about the criminal underrating of him, and he responded that he thought he should be higher on the list. And then the media used it to write another article where they cut Wall’s disclaimers and self-deprivation out, slap a bunch of exclamation points on his statements and write another clickbait article about how the fictional Wall persona they have created is at it again.

You think that at #32 in the league John is "criminally underrated?" Really?

I really just want to write yes, and leave it at that. Just because you start an argument doesn’t mean you deserve to be afforded my time.

He’s ranked as high as 13 by CBS and 22 by SI. A healthy Wall with a star big receiving his passes is a top 15 player based on who can put a team on his back and lead a team to playoff wins, and that, not regular season stats, is all that matters. PS responding back isn’t going to provoke the attention you want. I’m Swayze

Actually, since all I did was ask a question (not "start an argument"), it would have been to the point to "just... write yes." Instead you contrived a reason to respond in an unpleasant way. I doubt you meant the tone to seem so mean-spirited, so I note it (& I'll cop to being guilty of it myself from time to time), but I'm not going to respond to it.

I'm not interested in what CBS or SI say about Wall, & I certainly don't want "attention"; I was interested in what you have to say. Not so much in the question of exactly where Wall should be rated but in understanding your idea that #32 left him "criminally underrated" -- an extreme phrase that made me wonder if you somehow ranked him among the top handful of players in the league or something like that.

I.e. I wasn't trying to goad you. I'm sorry if it came off that way. OTOH, I'm out of date enough that I had no idea what you meant by writing "I'm Swayze" & had to google it. So, you see, there's always something to learn!

As to "A healthy Wall with a star big receiving his passes is a top 15 player," maybe that does tell a person what he needs to know about your rating. I.e. that it's just a picture in your mind: how about if Wall had two star bigs receiving his passes? Would that make him a top 10 player? (Edit: don't answer that -- I'm Swayze)

I agree, btw, that media coverage of stuff like this is designed to turn a normal kind of confidence into some kind of "character problem." No disagreement on that. Nothing the matter w/ what Wall said.

[deneem4]

A healthy wellness with a star big is a top 10 player
A jus healthy wall is a for sure top 15 player... look at the rankings coming into last season everyone had wall as a top 15 player

[dckingsfan]

I don't think we could say that Wall was a top 30 player in the league last year. Nor a top 15 the year before.

I do like that he thinks he is that player - well, until he goes mano a mano at the end of the game.

[payitforward]

Look... every fan of every team in every organized sport thinks that, really, his team is better than their record, right? At least a little better....

But, of course, every team can't be better! For one team to be better, at least one other team has to be worse, right? That's just the way it is.

It's the same with players. Every fan of every team in every organized sport thinks the top player on his team is better than he is recognized to be. It's perfectly natural.

&, since this is an emotional identification by fans, there is really no way to have a sensible discussion about it w/o people getting exercised and very testy.

[Dark Faze]

I'd go for the rental. What is there to lose? Move Oubre and a lottery protected first. Have a really fun interesting season. Maybe the result is so good that Ted becomes willing to pay the insane cost of the team after an extended Butler. If he walks then we're still a 1st/2nd round exit caliber team.

[NatP4]

Now I’m seeing reports saying the wiz are in on Butler and that the wizards are among his preferred destinations. Interesting.

I’m totally for trading Oubre and 1st for a rental. We can always use Sato at multiple positions and Troy Brown Jr. can replace Oubre while on a rookie contract going forward.

Have a fun season and see what happens. It worked for the rockets.