Jimmy Butler Showed Interest in Clippers; Traded To Philadelphia

[og15]

Pretty sure the Warrior dominance would be over by now if their starting SF was still Harrison Barnes.

They would still be great, but outside of the great regular season record, they were very beatable in the post-season until Durant joined the party. And since then only Houston has shown any ability to hang with them.

Tobias + Pat Bev are both expiring too, and that would be a fair deal

but would that deal make us any better?

both are character guys whereas Jimmy is, charitably, a question


HOU is reportedly offering Eric Gordon, who's signed for the next 2 years at a very affordable $14M

Hmm...EJ being offered, like Vae Victus said makes any offer with Gallo not good enough without one of the young guys going out. I guess that should have been expected from Houston though.

[Ranma]

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[madmaxmedia]

I guess what I'm wondering is, what is the realistic plan regarding Harris and free agency if we don't trade for Butler. The 2 max slots only work if Tobias walks, right? Even with Bird rights, filling both slots and re-signing Tobias is too much $$$ I assume. How much is Tobias worth, if we try to re-sign him next offseason?

I think what West intends with Tobias will have a lot to do (directly and indirectly) with what we decide to offer for Jimmy Butler.

I think at absolute minimum we make a somewhat lowball (but still plausible) offer of Danilo plus some asset(s), because then it's worth the trade even if we let Butler walk at the end of the year. We would then go into the season with both Tobias and Jimmy and thus field our best possible team, and after the season have the option to keep both, either, or none, depending on free agency pool.

This might be a situation where making a trade increases our flexibility and options, rather than decreases it.

[TrueLAfan]

Good post. I think a lot of what goes on with Tobias—and with Butler—has to do with how much each player is willing to take, and how much each players thinks he will get on the free agent market next season. Some people may disagree with this, but if both Tobias and Butler have years similar to last year—I’d say Tobias is likely to get as much interest as Butler.

--Butler is a better player on the court, but
--Harris is younger and has fewer injury issues, making up at least part of that difference, and
--Neither is an Alpha player on a championship team

Again, I think part of what Butler is doing now is to check his value on the market. And I think it’s telling him something. The best/most logical offer so far is from Houston. I like EG and all, but if the best offer for your services is Eric Gordon and fillers, you’re not a max player. Compare that Kawhi—a player who played a total of 210 minutes last season. The Spurs got an All-star and a first round pick. That’s what you get for an injured max player. Eric Gordon and filler is what you get for a $20 to $25 million player. Big difference.

Said this before—the key to the season is Gallo. If Gallo has a good (which means healthy) 35-40 games before the All-Star break, the fact that he’s a very useful player and will be an expiring contract next season will give him some value in trade. He could be flipped for an expiring contract and a player that makes less. We’d have our two max players, and we’d keep Tobias. But right now, I don’t think Gallo—or even Gallo and JRob—is enough to get Butler.

[esqtvd]

Pretty sure the Warrior dominance would be over by now if their starting SF was still Harrison Barnes.

They would still be great, but outside of the great regular season record, they were very beatable in the post-season until Durant joined the party. And since then only Houston has shown any ability to hang with them.

Tobias + Pat Bev are both expiring too, and that would be a fair deal

but would that deal make us any better?

both are character guys whereas Jimmy is, charitably, a question


HOU is reportedly offering Eric Gordon, who's signed for the next 2 years at a very affordable $14M

Hmm...EJ being offered, like Vae Victus said makes any offer with Gallo not good enough without one of the young guys going out. I guess that should have been expected from Houston though.

With Harden and CP slated to make $40M, Houston has no choice but to keep doubling down, doubling down. One year of Butler is worth a lot more to them than to us.

[og15]

Pretty sure the Warrior dominance would be over by now if their starting SF was still Harrison Barnes.

They would still be great, but outside of the great regular season record, they were very beatable in the post-season until Durant joined the party. And since then only Houston has shown any ability to hang with them.

Tobias + Pat Bev are both expiring too, and that would be a fair deal

but would that deal make us any better?

both are character guys whereas Jimmy is, charitably, a question


HOU is reportedly offering Eric Gordon, who's signed for the next 2 years at a very affordable $14M

Hmm...EJ being offered, like Vae Victus said makes any offer with Gallo not good enough without one of the young guys going out. I guess that should have been expected from Houston though.

With Harden and CP slated to make $40M, Houston has no choice but to keep doubling down, doubling down. One year of Butler is worth a lot more to them than to us.

Of course, they are the closest team to being the Durant Warriors, there's no other strategy for them. I'm assuming they would plan to keep him longer. They can as long as they are willing to pay tax, but also for the Clippers, the plan wouldn't be to rent him for a year.

https://en.hispanosnba.com/salaries/houston-rockets

Certainly for this season alone, of course he helps them more than he does here since they are generally considered a team with a top 3 chance to win it all while we are not anywhere near that at the moment.

We'll see how it all plays out, like I've said, I don't dislike Butler, but there's a lot of extra considerations when it comes to trading for him.

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[mkwest]

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[QRich3]

I guess what I'm wondering is, what is the realistic plan regarding Harris and free agency if we don't trade for Butler. The 2 max slots only work if Tobias walks, right? Even with Bird rights, filling both slots and re-signing Tobias is too much $$$ I assume. How much is Tobias worth, if we try to re-sign him next offseason?

I think what West intends with Tobias will have a lot to do (directly and indirectly) with what we decide to offer for Jimmy Butler.

Yeah I think any Clippers offer that doesn't include Tobias just doesn't make any sense, they aren't gonna keep him anyway if they want to go forward with Butler + max capspace. Not that the Wolves would entertain any offer without him anyway.

But I'm more convinced each day that they have no real intention to get Butler. They love to have their name thrown around every time a star is on the market, but they aren't getting this guy specifically.

[esqtvd]

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Besides turning tanking into an art form, this was the other innovation of Hinkieism, turning your team into a sal cap toxic waste dump in return for picks.

In fact, they got Sac's FRP from this deal, though they stupidly coughed it up to Ainge to move up 2 slots and draft bust-in-the-making Markelle Fultz.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sixers-trade-stauskas-picks-kings-deal-2015-7

[og15]

I actually think it is a very smart move for teams that are nowhere near luxury, and some not even at the salary floor to take on bad / unwanted contracts in exchange for picks. I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing.

[esqtvd]

I actually think it is a very smart move for teams that are nowhere near luxury, and some not even at the salary floor to take on bad / unwanted contracts in exchange for picks. I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing.

Just sharing the info. It was fairly brilliant, though when you do it for 2 or 3 years while averaging 20 wins a year, it's a farce.

Hinkie didn't just tank, he scorched the earth, like Rachel Phelps.

[og15]

I actually think it is a very smart move for teams that are nowhere near luxury, and some not even at the salary floor to take on bad / unwanted contracts in exchange for picks. I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing.

Just sharing the info. It was fairly brilliant, though when you do it for 2 or 3 years while averaging 20 wins a year, it's a farce.

Hinkie didn't just tank, he scorched the earth, like Rachel Phelps.

Hey, if you're going to tank, go all in until you get what you want, lol. That's better than the teams who still suck but can't tank properly. You're being generous with 20 wins though, didn't they win under 20 games three seasons in a row, including 10 wins?

About the Fultz pick though, that was not Hinkie's decision, but let's not proclaim him a future bust after just one sort of season.



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[esqtvd]

I actually think it is a very smart move for teams that are nowhere near luxury, and some not even at the salary floor to take on bad / unwanted contracts in exchange for picks. I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing.

Just sharing the info. It was fairly brilliant, though when you do it for 2 or 3 years while averaging 20 wins a year, it's a farce.

Hinkie didn't just tank, he scorched the earth, like Rachel Phelps.

Hey, if you're going to tank, go all in until you get what you want, lol. That's better than the teams who still suck but can't tank properly. You're being generous with 20 wins though, didn't they win under 20 games three seasons in a row, including 10 wins?

About the Fultz pick though, that was not Hinkie's decision, but let's not proclaim him a future bust after just one sort of season.

Right you are--47-195, with seasons of 19, 18, and 10 wins.

the worst three-year span in NBA history, sinking even lower than the .187 winning percentage posted by the Dallas Mavericks from 1991-92 through 1993-94.

Was it worth it? I don't think so. But some do.




His Process 1.0 was a complete failure [Michael Carter-Williams, Noel Noelle, Jahlil Okafor, KD McDaniels, Jerami Grant], and 2.0 rides completely on Embiid's health. Even still, it's widely agreed they're still a stud FA short.

The ultimate goal of The Process was to get one of those ungettable players like Jordan, Kobe, or Duncan who almost assure you of a championship somewhere along the way. But they probably still don't have one.

________________________________

As for Fultz [true, not Hinkie's fault], I saw some video of his 'retooled' jump shot, and it looks flat and instead of rising vertically, it looks like he's pushing toward the basket, which of course is easier to guard if not block. We shall see. Regardless, giving up Sacramento's pick next year to move up 2 slots [they could have got 6-7 swingman Jaylen Brown at #3] was questionable at best.

[og15]

Just sharing the info. It was fairly brilliant, though when you do it for 2 or 3 years while averaging 20 wins a year, it's a farce.

Hinkie didn't just tank, he scorched the earth, like Rachel Phelps.

Hey, if you're going to tank, go all in until you get what you want, lol. That's better than the teams who still suck but can't tank properly. You're being generous with 20 wins though, didn't they win under 20 games three seasons in a row, including 10 wins?

About the Fultz pick though, that was not Hinkie's decision, but let's not proclaim him a future bust after just one sort of season.

Right you are--47-195, with seasons of 19, 18, and 10 wins.

the worst three-year span in NBA history, sinking even lower than the .187 winning percentage posted by the Dallas Mavericks from 1991-92 through 1993-94.

Was it worth it? I don't think so. But some do.




As for Fultz [true, not Hinkie's fault], I saw some video of his 'retooled' jump shot, and it looks flat and instead of rising vertically, it looks like he's pushing toward the basket, which of course is easier to guard if not block. We shall see. Regardless, giving up Sacramento's pick next year to move up 2 slots [they could have got 6-7 swingman Jaylen Brown at #3] was questionable at best.


As for Hinkie, his Process 1.0 was a complete failure [Michael Carter-Williams, Noel Noelle, Jahlil Okafor, KD McDaniels, Jerami Grant], and 2.0 rides completely on Embiid's health. Even still, it's widely agreed they're still a stud FA short.

The ultimate goal of The Process was to get one of those ungettable players like Jordan, Kobe, or Duncan who almost assure you of a championship somewhere along the way. But they probably still don't have one.

Didn't he get cut short though? It was his moves and plan that gave them the picks they got in further seasons to build the team they have now.

Also you have to remember what he did with those players, Carter Williams was used as a tank master, then he was traded in year two for a 2018 1st which was Mikal Bridges and is now Zaire Smith and a 2021 1st.

The plan was to collect many assets, knowing that not all assets will pan out but the more you have, the better chance some will. I'd have to say it worked, but it's not for every team or even fan base, and of course the NBA doesn't like it.

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[esqtvd]

Hey, if you're going to tank, go all in until you get what you want, lol. That's better than the teams who still suck but can't tank properly. You're being generous with 20 wins though, didn't they win under 20 games three seasons in a row, including 10 wins?

About the Fultz pick though, that was not Hinkie's decision, but let's not proclaim him a future bust after just one sort of season.

Right you are--47-195, with seasons of 19, 18, and 10 wins.

the worst three-year span in NBA history, sinking even lower than the .187 winning percentage posted by the Dallas Mavericks from 1991-92 through 1993-94.

Was it worth it? I don't think so. But some do.


As for Fultz [true, not Hinkie's fault], I saw some video of his 'retooled' jump shot, and it looks flat and instead of rising vertically, it looks like he's pushing toward the basket, which of course is easier to guard if not block. We shall see. Regardless, giving up Sacramento's pick next year to move up 2 slots [they could have got 6-7 swingman Jaylen Brown at #3] was questionable at best.


As for Hinkie, his Process 1.0 was a complete failure [Michael Carter-Williams, Noel Noelle, Jahlil Okafor, KD McDaniels, Jerami Grant], and 2.0 rides completely on Embiid's health. Even still, it's widely agreed they're still a stud FA short.

The ultimate goal of The Process was to get one of those ungettable players like Jordan, Kobe, or Duncan who almost assure you of a championship somewhere along the way. But they probably still don't have one.

Didn't he get cut short though? It was his moves and plan that gave them the picks they got in further seasons to build the team they have now.

Also you have to remember what he did with those players, Carter Williams was used as a tank master, then he was traded in year two for a 2018 1st which was Mikal Bridges and is now Zaire Smith and a 2021 1st.

The plan was to collect many assets, knowing that not all assets will pan out but the more you have, the better chance some will. I'd have to say it worked, but it's not for every team or even fan base, and of course the NBA doesn't like it.

Yes, it is said that Hinkie was "cut short" by Adam Silver and complaining owners. Colangelo pere et fils were brought in. However, Hinkie had shown no real draft acumen, the other half of The Process. They were about to win with Embiid and Simmons finally up on their feet, so the tanking and asset-gathering phase--the part Hinkie aced--was mostly over.

The Process remains unproven. Embiid is already getting the big dough and Simmons is a RFA in 2 years. If Fultz is indeed a bust, the Sixers better get themselves a bigtime FA and damn soon, or the whole thing may implode.

[Which is why a Jimmy Butler is a lot more valuable to a number of other teams than he is to us.]



https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/7/6/17538272/philadelphia-76ers-free-agency-kawhi-leonard-ben-simmons

Is the Sixers’ Window Smaller Than We Thought?



It won’t be long until the Sixers are potentially in a similar situation of having to court guys who are already in their camp. Ben Simmons and Dario Saric will become restricted free agents in 2020, which will limit the funds the Sixers can allocate toward outside pieces. Not to mention that the Sixers aren’t immune from warding off the wandering-eye virus that has infected players all over the league. Just because they have something good going today doesn’t mean that someone like Simmons won’t think about other possibilities tomorrow. In the same way that Kyrie graduated to wanting his own program, rather than sharing one with LeBron, it’s not unthinkable to imagine a world where Simmons might want his own team one day, rather than splitting a squad with Joel Embiid. It should also be noted that LeBron and Simmons share the same agent, and that Simmons and his paramour, Kendall Jenner, haven’t exactly been shy about hitting the scene and being seen. That doesn’t mean that Simmons will eventually leap to Los Angeles — but there’s no guarantee that he’ll spend the rest of his career in Philly, either.

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

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[TucsonClip]

Id be pretty surprised if he doesnt end up in Miami, based on these recent reports, plus someone I know with connections down there.

Still dont think using Dragic as the framework (salary wise) for a Butler deal makes sense. I also hope they dont deal my boy Josh Richardson, but hard to see a path without him.

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

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