Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[AirP.]

The Taylor thing worried me. A lot of fans were happy he was wanting to get something done but I am worried he is rushing. Take the time to get a deal we can live with.

He inserts himself way too much into basketball operations, just watching out this Butler thing is play out I can imagine why the organization is a mess. Either higher a puppet FO or let your people do their job, you can't go in multiple directions and expect anything good to come from it. This is also why I think the rumor of Thibs wanting to be fired could be true, if you're not allowed to do what you're hired to do, why be there?

[shrink]

The Taylor thing worried me. A lot of fans were happy he was wanting to get something done but I am worried he is rushing. Take the time to get a deal we can live with.

He inserts himself way too much into basketball operations, just watching out this Butler thing is play out I can imagine why the organization is a mess. Either higher a puppet FO or let your people do their job, you can't go in multiple directions and expect anything good to come from it. This is also why I think the rumor of Thibs wanting to be fired could be true, if you're not allowed to do what you're hired to do, why be there?

First, how could he NOT insert himself into this situation, when Thibs refused to even listen to trade offers?

Second, Taylor’s bottom line is to keep KAT happy. If Jimmy is not traded quickly, it’s because Jimmy, KAT, Thibs and Taylor all agreed. Taylor would not force a quick trade if the other three say wait.

[wolves_89]

The Taylor thing worried me. A lot of fans were happy he was wanting to get something done but I am worried he is rushing. Take the time to get a deal we can live with.

He inserts himself way too much into basketball operations, just watching out this Butler thing is play out I can imagine why the organization is a mess. Either higher a puppet FO or let your people do their job, you can't go in multiple directions and expect anything good to come from it. This is also why I think the rumor of Thibs wanting to be fired could be true, if you're not allowed to do what you're hired to do, why be there?

First, how could he NOT insert himself into this situation, when Thibs refused to even listen to trade offers?

Second, Taylor’s bottom line is to keep KAT happy. If Jimmy is not traded quickly, it’s because Jimmy, KAT, Thibs and Taylor all agreed. Taylor would not force a quick trade if the other three say wait.

My problem with Taylor isn't him telling Thibs to pursue a trade, it's him having other teams bypass the front office to talk him directly. I strongly suspect that the quality of the trade offers so far is a direct reflection of teams thinking they can get Taylor to agree to a crappy deal in the short term. The recent Woj podcast makes a fairly compelling case that a decent deal will take months to complete.

[shrink]

He inserts himself way too much into basketball operations, just watching out this Butler thing is play out I can imagine why the organization is a mess. Either higher a puppet FO or let your people do their job, you can't go in multiple directions and expect anything good to come from it. This is also why I think the rumor of Thibs wanting to be fired could be true, if you're not allowed to do what you're hired to do, why be there?

First, how could he NOT insert himself into this situation, when Thibs refused to even listen to trade offers?

Second, Taylor’s bottom line is to keep KAT happy. If Jimmy is not traded quickly, it’s because Jimmy, KAT, Thibs and Taylor all agreed. Taylor would not force a quick trade if the other three say wait.

My problem with Taylor isn't him telling Thibs to pursue a trade, it's him having other teams bypass the front office to talk him directly. I strongly suspect that the quality of the trade offers so far is a direct reflection of teams thinking they can get Taylor to agree to a crappy deal in the short term. The recent Woj podcast makes a fairly compelling case that a decent deal will take months to complete.

And if that makes KAT uncomfortable ...? Or the whole locker room is poisoned?

[wolves_89]

First, how could he NOT insert himself into this situation, when Thibs refused to even listen to trade offers?

Second, Taylor’s bottom line is to keep KAT happy. If Jimmy is not traded quickly, it’s because Jimmy, KAT, Thibs and Taylor all agreed. Taylor would not force a quick trade if the other three say wait.

My problem with Taylor isn't him telling Thibs to pursue a trade, it's him having other teams bypass the front office to talk him directly. I strongly suspect that the quality of the trade offers so far is a direct reflection of teams thinking they can get Taylor to agree to a crappy deal in the short term. The recent Woj podcast makes a fairly compelling case that a decent deal will take months to complete.

And if that makes KAT uncomfortable ...?

I think KAT can be uncomfortable for a few months while things are sorted out. It's pretty clearly KAT's team going forward and it's also clear Butler isn't going to be around long term. I would find it hard to believe that KAT isn't willing to let the team work through the trade process in an intelligent way that gets the team as good a deal as possible (which is unlikely to happen in the next few days or even few weeks).

[shrink]

My problem with Taylor isn't him telling Thibs to pursue a trade, it's him having other teams bypass the front office to talk him directly. I strongly suspect that the quality of the trade offers so far is a direct reflection of teams thinking they can get Taylor to agree to a crappy deal in the short term. The recent Woj podcast makes a fairly compelling case that a decent deal will take months to complete.

And if that makes KAT uncomfortable ...?

I think KAT can be uncomfortable for a few months while things are sorted out. It's pretty clearly KAT's team going forward and it's also clear Butler isn't going to be around long term. I would find it hard to believe that KAT isn't willing to let the team work through the trade process in an intelligent way that gets the team as good a deal as possible (which is unlikely to happen in the next few days or even few weeks).

Why do you think that? What has KAT, or any of this young generation of stats, done to make you think he will go through months of discomfort? Was it his hold out on signing the extension?

[wolves_89]

And if that makes KAT uncomfortable ...?

I think KAT can be uncomfortable for a few months while things are sorted out. It's pretty clearly KAT's team going forward and it's also clear Butler isn't going to be around long term. I would find it hard to believe that KAT isn't willing to let the team work through the trade process in an intelligent way that gets the team as good a deal as possible (which is unlikely to happen in the next few days or even few weeks).

Why do you think that? What has KAT, or any of this young generation of stats, done to make you think he will go through months of discomfort? Was it his hold out on signing the extension?

So you think KAT's so thin skinned he's willing to hurt the team's prospects for years because he doesn't like Butler?

[KGdaBom]

He's a good player but he's just a high level role player.

I don't care role player or not. He is great.

He is good, I don't see any team saying... oh man, don't let Porter get on a role, he'll carry them.

He had 16 20+ games last year, he also had 16 games of 9 or few points.

Also 4 seasons he's made the playoffs averaging 10 pts, 6.3 reb, 1.6 ast.

2 max slots and getting 4 total assists from the 2 of them.... maybe the PF or Towns will pick up those assist numbers.

I will be happy to take the total package he brings. The ridiculous offensive efficiency. The rebounding and the Defense. Players like Porter win games for a team.

[KGdaBom]

The Taylor thing worried me. A lot of fans were happy he was wanting to get something done but I am worried he is rushing. Take the time to get a deal we can live with.

He inserts himself way too much into basketball operations, just watching out this Butler thing is play out I can imagine why the organization is a mess. Either higher a puppet FO or let your people do their job, you can't go in multiple directions and expect anything good to come from it. This is also why I think the rumor of Thibs wanting to be fired could be true, if you're not allowed to do what you're hired to do, why be there?

First, how could he NOT insert himself into this situation, when Thibs refused to even listen to trade offers?

Second, Taylor’s bottom line is to keep KAT happy. If Jimmy is not traded quickly, it’s because Jimmy, KAT, Thibs and Taylor all agreed. Taylor would not force a quick trade if the other three say wait.

It was never proven that Thibs wouldn't listen to trade offers. However, I'm confident he was shutting down crap offers. So far I haven't heard about one offer that is close to fair value for Butler.

[shrink]

I think KAT can be uncomfortable for a few months while things are sorted out. It's pretty clearly KAT's team going forward and it's also clear Butler isn't going to be around long term. I would find it hard to believe that KAT isn't willing to let the team work through the trade process in an intelligent way that gets the team as good a deal as possible (which is unlikely to happen in the next few days or even few weeks).

Why do you think that? What has KAT, or any of this young generation of stats, done to make you think he will go through months of discomfort? Was it his hold out on signing the extension?

So you think KAT's so thin skinned he's willing to hurt the team's prospects for years because he doesn't like Butler?

Yes. If team success was his main goal, he’d simply play with Butler.

[KGdaBom]

And if that makes KAT uncomfortable ...?

I think KAT can be uncomfortable for a few months while things are sorted out. It's pretty clearly KAT's team going forward and it's also clear Butler isn't going to be around long term. I would find it hard to believe that KAT isn't willing to let the team work through the trade process in an intelligent way that gets the team as good a deal as possible (which is unlikely to happen in the next few days or even few weeks).

Why do you think that? What has KAT, or any of this young generation of stats, done to make you think he will go through months of discomfort? Was it his hold out on signing the extension?

When I read things like this it makes me start to really dislike KAT. The poor baby getting paid almost 40 million a year for playing a game might be made uncomfortable. Man up and be a professional. It should be about the team and not about himself.

[KGdaBom]

Why do you think that? What has KAT, or any of this young generation of stats, done to make you think he will go through months of discomfort? Was it his hold out on signing the extension?

So you think KAT's so thin skinned he's willing to hurt the team's prospects for years because he doesn't like Butler?

Yes. If team success was his main goal, he’d simply play with Butler.

Yep and why I no longer care much about Towns. Play great and collect your check KAT. The team should be bigger than the individual. However, I can move on from this and appreciate his greatness and hopefully watch him bring success to our team. However, there will always be a taint on my fandom for KAT over this.

[wolves_89]

Why do you think that? What has KAT, or any of this young generation of stats, done to make you think he will go through months of discomfort? Was it his hold out on signing the extension?

So you think KAT's so thin skinned he's willing to hurt the team's prospects for years because he doesn't like Butler?

Yes. If team success was his main goal, he’d simply play with Butler.

I really hope that isn't the case. Prolonging the process a few months in order to put the team in a better position for the next few years doesn't seem like an unreasonable proposition. Also, there have been plenty of indications that the Butler-Towns relationship is irreparably broken, but I haven't seen anything that says Towns isn't willing to let the situation play out. I find it believable that there was an ultimatum from Towns about Butler not being around long-term (and he's clearly getting what he wanted), but I'm less convinced about him demanding an immediate Butler trade.

[Nick K]

Late word has the Wizards making a push for Butler. If they are including Porter done deal.

Where did you hear that?

Porter is the best fit for us. Don't get me excited.

[vagelis]

Personally I would prefer a sf. Eric Gordon may be a good player but I think we need to trade for a sf in order to move Wiggins to sg position.
I prefer Tobias Harris if Clippers are interested.
He is a good 3pt shooter, he is athletic, he has length and he can create his own shoot.
Porter is a good role player who has a superstar contract.

[KGdaBom]

Late word has the Wizards making a push for Butler. If they are including Porter done deal.

Where did you hear that?

Porter is the best fit for us. Don't get me excited.

Top secret highly reliable source that I can't divulge. In other words I forget. Porter has a strange provision in his contract that the Wizards have to pay him a 15% bonus if they trade him which puts a bit of a damper on trading him.
Here's some speculation on a Porter for Butler deal.
Washington Wizards
The Wizards’ John Wall-Bradley Beal-Otto Porter core probably needs a shakeup if Washington is going to attempt to compete atop the Eastern Conference with Philadelphia and Boston.
Would the Wizards consider moving Beal for Butler if they knew Butler would re-sign? Or would the Timberwolves be interested in a package featuring Porter or Kelly Oubre?

[KGdaBom]

Personally I would prefer a sf. Eric Gordon may be a good player but I think we need to trade for a sf in order to move Wiggins to sg position.
I prefer Tobias Harris if Clippers are interested.
He is a good 3pt shooter, he is athletic, he has length and he can create his own shoot.
Porter is a good role player who has a superstar contract.

This role player stuff about Porter really bothers me. There is more to basketball than how many total points a player scores. Porter scores with ridiculous efficiency while doing everything else well. Wiggins will score more points than Porter, but Porter is a much better player.
I like Harris. He is a very good player, but Porter is a better player.

[wolves_89]

Personally I would prefer a sf. Eric Gordon may be a good player but I think we need to trade for a sf in order to move Wiggins to sg position.
I prefer Tobias Harris if Clippers are interested.
He is a good 3pt shooter, he is athletic, he has length and he can create his own shoot.
Porter is a good role player who has a superstar contract.

This role player stuff about Porter really bothers me. There is more to basketball than how many total points a player scores. Porter scores with ridiculous efficiency while doing everything else well. Wiggins will score more points than Porter, but Porter is a much better player.
I like Harris. He is a very good player, but Porter is a better player.

The issue with Harris is that he's on the last season of his contract and has already turned down a $80M/4 year extension offer. If both Harris and Porter are going to require over $20M a year going forward, I'd rather have Porter.

[vagelis]

Personally I would prefer a sf. Eric Gordon may be a good player but I think we need to trade for a sf in order to move Wiggins to sg position.
I prefer Tobias Harris if Clippers are interested.
He is a good 3pt shooter, he is athletic, he has length and he can create his own shoot.
Porter is a good role player who has a superstar contract.

This role player stuff about Porter really bothers me. There is more to basketball than how many total points a player scores. Porter scores with ridiculous efficiency while doing everything else well. Wiggins will score more points than Porter, but Porter is a much better player.
I like Harris. He is a very good player, but Porter is a better player.

Porter scores with efficiency because he is a good shooter and John Wall(mainly) and Beal create for him. He does not have offensive game except shooting.
If he was such a good player like his contract says the Wizzards would have been a much better team. Wall and Beal are really good players if they had one more player in their level Wizzards would have been a great team.
And why do you compare Porter with Wiggins? This is a Butler trade, we give Butler and we try to find a player to fill his gap. So I think it is better to compare the possible trade assets from other teams and who is better to come to the Wolves.
So, about the comparison with Harris I think that Harris is more gifted offensively and he can help in 2 positions sf/pf.
So, we can play some minutes with small ball and 2 pgs having Wiggins at 3 and Harris at 4.
The problem that I recognize in Harris case is that he is an expiring contract and we need to assure that he will resign

[minimus]

I don't care role player or not. He is great.

He is good, I don't see any team saying... oh man, don't let Porter get on a role, he'll carry them.

He had 16 20+ games last year, he also had 16 games of 9 or few points.

Also 4 seasons he's made the playoffs averaging 10 pts, 6.3 reb, 1.6 ast.

2 max slots and getting 4 total assists from the 2 of them.... maybe the PF or Towns will pick up those assist numbers.

I will be happy to take the total package he brings. The ridiculous offensive efficiency. The rebounding and the Defense. Players like Porter win games for a team.

It is not Scottie Pippen, it is Otto Porter. We need a player like him, but we should avoid a role player with such contract. Unless his name is Dray Green, Klay Thompson. Otto signed this contract because BRO offered him such money. Saying this, I'd perfectly fine with Porter as 3rd option if we did not have Dieng, Teague, Aldrich, Gibson contracts. That is a bunch a bad contract that are hurting us.