Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[KGdaBom]

lol @ 'Glen didn't let Thibs make HIS moves!'. We have more 11-12 Bulls on our roster than 16-17 Timberwolves. Thibs was able to mortgage the farm for Butler, trade Glen's favorite player, pay double market value for Taj, etc

We didn't mortgage squat for Butler. LaVine, Dunn and a draft pick swap that except for Patton's injuries might have worked out just fine. Taylor didn't let Thibs trade Wiggins and gave him a max contract instead. How bad has that screwed the Wolves? Getting the ex bulls has worked out very well. Butler is the best player on the team currently, Gibson played amazing for us, Rose and Deng are looking very good for vet minimum guys costing us almost nothing. In two seasons of Thibs one of Butler we were back in the playoffs. Sure those two are the problem . They are the scapegoats for Glen Taylor and his horrible decisions. Thibs never put Forman and Paxton under the bus and he isn't putting Taylor under the bus either.

[KGdaBom]

Bucks are good trade partners because of picks and young guys and expirings not Middleton.

Youngs guys and picks are so much more exciting than Middleton.

This team isn´t rebuilding. We need to get players to be as competitive as possible.

Regarding Charlotte offer, I´d just accept either MKG or Marvin Williams and with Monk in the trade instead of picks.

Middleton, DeVincenzo + FRP would be a decent offer.

It certainly would. The only way Milwaukee is trading Middleton IMO is if they feel they will have trouble signing him.

[KGdaBom]

Did I miss something? Where was it ever reported that Taylor wouldn’t pay the super-max at the end of the season?

Last I heard, Jimmy’s people reportedly said he was frustrated about the money because MIN wouldn’t get $30 mil under the cap (not lux) to renegotiate his deal, not because Taylor refused to pay the supermax this summer?

Butler is not going to get that money now no matter where he is. This is about Bird Right's next season I believe. He certainly won't get that money with Miami and that is his #1 destination.

[KGdaBom]

If you believe KAT in that interview you are being willfully gullible. He isn’t going to bring more drama in an interview like that by talking badly about Butler. Every single one of the players is probably getting coached by the team with set responses about Butler as to not weaken our position with the trade negotiations. If KAT says, “Yeah I refuse to play with that jerk!” In and interview you can kiss any leverage you had goodbye.

I fully understand that people lie. I had already lost a lot of respect for KAT when I heard about the ultimatum. So either he's telling the truth and my respect is restored or he is lying and I can never respect him again. The level of low if he is lying is beyond my tolerance.

I'll point out 2 things without putting in my opinion or take.

- Kat waited & didn't sign an extension till Butler said he wanted out, not in.

- Wiggins one half of the accused brother got on social media right after & said, thank God he's gone.

I think you were on the right track with targeting Middleton for Butler if Bucks are willing.

My best guess is that KAT is indeed lying. I hope I'm wrong. If he did everything they say he did I have zero respect for him. If he's telling the truth, I can once again embrace him as my favorite Wolves player.

[minimus]

I am at the point that I believe the first legit offer, regardless of pieces, gets this trade done. If this is not the case, then we will be holding on to Jimmy for a while. A. if we need to roll with Taj, Towns, Tolliver and Dieng as our big men this season, we should be fine. Nice combo, and it gives a chance for Dieng to raise his value - which just needs some playing time. B. I don't like Rose starting at the 2, but he and Teague make a fast backcourt and if their 3pt shooting can be average to above, should cause match up issues. C. It's put up or shut up time for Wiggins (whom I love, and have backed, but time to see measurable growth). D. We will see if Tom can coach. If Okogie and KBD are getting solid minutes I believe they can contribute. This will be on Tom to get a rotation down and play match up basketball. Without Jimmy we are a fringe team in the West, but we could be a playoff team just as easy as missing the playoffs depending on Thibs and Wiggs. If Jimmy isn't gone by the end of preseason, I think it is safe to say he will be around until teams are able to trade draft picks and free agents and who knows what can happen by that time.

Part of me want our coach to bench Wiggins when he is slacking in defense. Just bench him and let Okogie create havoc or give Nunnally a chance or KBD.

[Whole Truth]

I fully understand that people lie. I had already lost a lot of respect for KAT when I heard about the ultimatum. So either he's telling the truth and my respect is restored or he is lying and I can never respect him again. The level of low if he is lying is beyond my tolerance.

I'll point out 2 things without putting in my opinion or take.

- Kat waited & didn't sign an extension till Butler said he wanted out, not in.

- Wiggins one half of the accused brother got on social media right after & said, thank God he's gone.

I think you were on the right track with targeting Middleton for Butler if Bucks are willing.

My best guess is that KAT is indeed lying. I hope I'm wrong. If he did everything they say he did I have zero respect for him. If he's telling the truth, I can once again embrace him as my favorite Wolves player.

He's being politically correct & it helps your team, no reason to be upset. Like the poster you responded to mentioned, if he got up there & fanned the flames, teams are already weary of the impact Butler would have in the locker room as he was disruptive in Chicago as well, for whatever reason. They'll be thinking & claiming he'll potentially kill their chemistry too.

Taj claimed it all came as a shock, thought everything was fine though their were reports of rifts between Kat, Wiggins & Butler with Taj being his good friend he's told nothing to, followed by Kat's same message of everything is fine except for a player that demanded out & is growing frustrated that he hasn't been moved yet.

[minimus]

MIN (not sure who exactly Thibs or Glen) try to hold on until we get better offers but something tells me that as time goes the offers will get only worse. The only chance as I wrote before is slow start for other team that will decide to blown up current. roster to get Jimmy.

[Whole Truth]

MIN (not sure who exactly Thibs or Glen) try to hold on until we get better offers but something tells me that as time goes the offers will get only worse. The only chance as I wrote before is slow start for other team that will decide to blown up current. roster to get Jimmy.

Taylor made a big mistake going over their heads when they were trying to leverage value.

[minimus]

MIN (not sure who exactly Thibs or Glen) try to hold on until we get better offers but something tells me that as time goes the offers will get only worse. The only chance as I wrote before is slow start for other team that will decide to blown up current. roster to get Jimmy.

Taylor made a big mistake going over their heads when they were trying to leverage value.

Agree, he messed up everything. You either trust your GM, or fire him and move on. We stacked in between. Such a weird and awkward situation.

[KGdaBom]

I'll point out 2 things without putting in my opinion or take.

- Kat waited & didn't sign an extension till Butler said he wanted out, not in.

- Wiggins one half of the accused brother got on social media right after & said, thank God he's gone.

I think you were on the right track with targeting Middleton for Butler if Bucks are willing.

My best guess is that KAT is indeed lying. I hope I'm wrong. If he did everything they say he did I have zero respect for him. If he's telling the truth, I can once again embrace him as my favorite Wolves player.

He's being politically correct & it helps your team, no reason to be upset. Like the poster you responded to mentioned, if he got up there & fanned the flames, teams are already weary of the impact Butler would have in the locker room as he was disruptive in Chicago as well, for whatever reason. They'll be thinking & claiming he'll potentially kill their chemistry too.

Taj claimed it all came as a shock, thought everything was fine though their were reports of rifts between Kat, Wiggins & Butler with Taj being his good friend he's told nothing to, followed by Kat's same message of everything is fine except for a player that demanded out & is growing frustrated that he hasn't been moved yet.

If the old rumors of KAT giving a Butler or Me ultimatum are true than KAT is the source of our problems. If they are true KAT in the interview is a low life liar whether PC or not. If they are not true than KAT is being honest and would embrace Jimmy returning. If KAT is lying I don't care if it helps the team. If true KAT is a self serving lying POS. I really hope it is the alternative.

[Foye]

I don't know what to think about this whole situation.
I don't even want to talk about it anymore.
It just proved once again something that we all know for years.
This whole franchise is mismanaged top to bottom.

Even when the Wolves manage to put themselves in a good position by acquiring generational talents like Garnett and Towns. They miserably fail to put supporting casts around them good enough to compete. And once they accidentially manage to put a good supporting cast around them, they will find a way to screw things up.

[KGdaBom]

I don't know what to think about this whole situation.
I don't even want to talk about it anymore.
It just proved once again something that we all know for years.
This whole franchise is mismanaged top to bottom.

Even when the Wolves manage to put themselves in a good position by acquiring generational talents like Garnett and Towns. They miserably fail to put supporting casts around them good enough to compete. And once they accidentially manage to put a good supporting cast around them, they will find a way to screw things up.

I hate to say it, but pretty true.

[AirP.]

lol @ 'Glen didn't let Thibs make HIS moves!'. We have more 11-12 Bulls on our roster than 16-17 Timberwolves. Thibs was able to mortgage the farm for Butler, trade Glen's favorite player, pay double market value for Taj, etc

Well, had Taylor allowed Wiggins to be traded, maybe the future would look much brighter. You know, the guy who has one of the worst contract in basketball now, that guy Taylor said I have the max through the media and waited nearly 2 months for Wiggins to finally sign. You know, Wiggins, the guy it was reported that Thibs was willing to move but Taylor wasn't and this was part of the organizational problems.

I do remember how Taylor was when news of Thibs wanting to bring Rose to town on the minimum. He basically said no and listed out the needs for the team during an interview with Wolfson. A few weeks later when Butler was out, Rose is finally added with the minimum. I personally thought it was a no brainer to bring in Rose to play off the bench for the minimum, he did score 18 ppg the year before as a starter so playing against 2nd team players should have made him look even better... plus Minnesota's bench was horrible.

Rubio had years to work on his outside shooting and to help Minnesota to become a good, hell, just a .500 team which never happened yet for some reason people see him as some superstar. You got cap space and a 1st which equated to Teague and now Okogie for him, that seems like a really good return for someone who never got this team to .500.

Taj double the market value, I'm not quite sure that is accurate, it's one of the reasons Chicago moved him because they expected with a hometown discount to get him for around ~12 million which messed with their cap space for a rebuild. Also, he along with Teague are some of the best free agents this franchise has ever seen which says more about the organization.

[KGdaBom]

lol @ 'Glen didn't let Thibs make HIS moves!'. We have more 11-12 Bulls on our roster than 16-17 Timberwolves. Thibs was able to mortgage the farm for Butler, trade Glen's favorite player, pay double market value for Taj, etc

Well, had Taylor allowed Wiggins to be traded, maybe the future would look much brighter. You know, the guy who has one of the worst contract in basketball now, that guy Taylor said I have the max through the media and waited nearly 2 months for Wiggins to finally sign. You know, Wiggins, the guy it was reported that Thibs was willing to move but Taylor wasn't and this was part of the organizational problems.

I do remember how Taylor was when news of Thibs wanting to bring Rose to town on the minimum. He basically said no and listed out the needs for the team during an interview with Wolfson. A few weeks later when Butler was out, Rose is finally added with the minimum. I personally thought it was a no brainer to bring in Rose to play off the bench for the minimum, he did score 18 ppg the year before as a starter so playing against 2nd team players should have made him look even better... plus Minnesota's bench was horrible.

Rubio had years to work on his outside shooting and to help Minnesota to become a good, hell, just a .500 team which never happened yet for some reason people see him as some superstar. You got cap space and a 1st which equated to Teague and now Okogie for him, that seems like a really good return for someone who never got this team to .500.

Taj double the market value, I'm not quite sure that is accurate, it's one of the reasons Chicago moved him because they expected with a hometown discount to get him for around ~12 million which messed with their cap space for a rebuild. Also, he along with Teague are some of the best free agents this franchise has ever seen which says more about the organization.

AirP I'm mostly with you, but you are barking up the wrong tree with Rubio. Do the math on his poor shooting and it comes down to about 2 points a game vs the average. He far more than makes up for that with his passing, rebounding and defense. People try to say that Rubio's poor shooting diminishes the effectiveness of all the other players going 4-5. That is debunked by all the other players having far better efficiency with Rubio on the court. Rubio was part of the solution not part of the problem. With the Rubio/Teague swap we did get the pick that ended up being Okogie, but we lost 4 million in cap space which last year would have been CJ Miles. Okogie will in the end be the determining factor of the Rubio trade. Early indications are positive on that.

[Foye]

lol @ 'Glen didn't let Thibs make HIS moves!'. We have more 11-12 Bulls on our roster than 16-17 Timberwolves. Thibs was able to mortgage the farm for Butler, trade Glen's favorite player, pay double market value for Taj, etc

Well, had Taylor allowed Wiggins to be traded, maybe the future would look much brighter. You know, the guy who has one of the worst contract in basketball now, that guy Taylor said I have the max through the media and waited nearly 2 months for Wiggins to finally sign. You know, Wiggins, the guy it was reported that Thibs was willing to move but Taylor wasn't and this was part of the organizational problems.

I do remember how Taylor was when news of Thibs wanting to bring Rose to town on the minimum. He basically said no and listed out the needs for the team during an interview with Wolfson. A few weeks later when Butler was out, Rose is finally added with the minimum. I personally thought it was a no brainer to bring in Rose to play off the bench for the minimum, he did score 18 ppg the year before as a starter so playing against 2nd team players should have made him look even better... plus Minnesota's bench was horrible.

Rubio had years to work on his outside shooting and to help Minnesota to become a good, hell, just a .500 team which never happened yet for some reason people see him as some superstar. You got cap space and a 1st which equated to Teague and now Okogie for him, that seems like a really good return for someone who never got this team to .500.

Taj double the market value, I'm not quite sure that is accurate, it's one of the reasons Chicago moved him because they expected with a hometown discount to get him for around ~12 million which messed with their cap space for a rebuild. Also, he along with Teague are some of the best free agents this franchise has ever seen which says more about the organization.

Unlike Teague, Rubio never had a supporting cast of Butler, Towns and Wiggins.
Look how well the Utah Jazz did with Rubio last season. Everyone thought they would take a step backwards because Hayward left. Yet they managed to finish 5th in the tough West with a roster lacking any elite player except for Gobert. And even Gobert missed almost 30 games!!!

[Whole Truth]

My best guess is that KAT is indeed lying. I hope I'm wrong. If he did everything they say he did I have zero respect for him. If he's telling the truth, I can once again embrace him as my favorite Wolves player.

He's being politically correct & it helps your team, no reason to be upset. Like the poster you responded to mentioned, if he got up there & fanned the flames, teams are already weary of the impact Butler would have in the locker room as he was disruptive in Chicago as well, for whatever reason. They'll be thinking & claiming he'll potentially kill their chemistry too.

Taj claimed it all came as a shock, thought everything was fine though their were reports of rifts between Kat, Wiggins & Butler with Taj being his good friend he's told nothing to, followed by Kat's same message of everything is fine except for a player that demanded out & is growing frustrated that he hasn't been moved yet.

If the old rumors of KAT giving a Butler or Me ultimatum are true than KAT is the source of our problems. If they are true KAT in the interview is a low life liar whether PC or not. If they are not true than KAT is being honest and would embrace Jimmy returning. If KAT is lying I don't care if it helps the team. If true KAT is a self serving lying POS. I really hope it is the alternative.

I don't think that was a one way street, I think both had their it's me or him moments. I know the trade rumors were not from strong sources but I do think that Butler asked out first & Thibs considered moving Kat to appease Butler. I think Taylor nixed Thibs on trading Kat as he prevented him from trading Wiggins before handing out his long extension, it doesn't surprise me that in this situation Thibs still wants to keep Butler & Taylor went over his head to extend Kat & requested a trade for Butler done as quick as possible...

It matches in a way, what played out with Wiggins.

[KGdaBom]

He's being politically correct & it helps your team, no reason to be upset. Like the poster you responded to mentioned, if he got up there & fanned the flames, teams are already weary of the impact Butler would have in the locker room as he was disruptive in Chicago as well, for whatever reason. They'll be thinking & claiming he'll potentially kill their chemistry too.

Taj claimed it all came as a shock, thought everything was fine though their were reports of rifts between Kat, Wiggins & Butler with Taj being his good friend he's told nothing to, followed by Kat's same message of everything is fine except for a player that demanded out & is growing frustrated that he hasn't been moved yet.

If the old rumors of KAT giving a Butler or Me ultimatum are true than KAT is the source of our problems. If they are true KAT in the interview is a low life liar whether PC or not. If they are not true than KAT is being honest and would embrace Jimmy returning. If KAT is lying I don't care if it helps the team. If true KAT is a self serving lying POS. I really hope it is the alternative.

I don't think that was a one way street, I think both had their it's me or him moments. I know the trade rumors were not from strong sources but I do think that Butler asked out first & Thibs considered moving Kat to appease Butler. I think Taylor nixed Thibs on trading Kat as he prevented him from trading Wiggins before handing out his long extension, it doesn't surprise me that in this situation Thibs still wants to keep Butler & Taylor went over his head to extend Kat & requested a trade for Butler done as quick as possible...

It matches in a way, what played out with Wiggins.

KAT would most likely command the biggest trade package of all time, but I don't think Thibs was ever considering trading him. Giving KAT a Supermax extension was a no brainer. That was IMO one of the few times that Thibs and Taylor were on the same page.

[AirP.]

AirP I'm mostly with you, but you are barking up the wrong tree with Rubio. Do the math on his poor shooting and it comes down to about 2 points a game vs the average. He far more than makes up for that with his passing, rebounding and defense. People try to say that Rubio's poor shooting diminishes the effectiveness of all the other players going 4-5. That is debunked by all the other players having far better efficiency with Rubio on the court. Rubio was part of the solution not part of the problem. With the Rubio/Teague swap we did get the pick that ended up being Okogie, but we lost 4 million in cap space which last year would have been CJ Miles. Okogie will in the end be the determining factor of the Rubio trade. Early indications are positive on that.

Far better efficiency with Rubio on the court is not true. Towns was more efficient this year then previous years. Wiggins is really the only one who was "far more efficient" with Rubio because of how bad he was this last year. The team overall last year, even with Wiggins being worse, was "way more efficient" then with Rubio.

Just looking at team stats, Minnesota had a TS% of 56.6, eFG% 52.3 last year the year before with Rubio
2017-2018 TS% 56.6, eFG% 52.3 <- 9th for TS%, 13th for eFG%
2016-2017 TS% 55.5, eFG% 51.1 <- 15th for TS%, 16th for eFG%

Now take in account that Wiggins and Crawford were just absolutely horrible with efficiency, everyone else was either a wash or better, if you take out Wiggins horrible shooting, you're be in the top 4 in the league(around 58% TS%) and really close to being as efficient as GS and Houston. I do understand Rubio missed LaVine 12 more games then Teague missed Butler although Butler was a more efficient shooter.

Just a couple of tweaks and this team would be much better offensively(well, when Butler was with them).

[PharmD]

The other thing that sucked about trading Rubio was it made it basically impossible to trade for Irving since Teague couldn't be traded until Dec. 15th. There was just no way to make the salaries work. Not that we would have been able to match Boston's package anyway but still.

Plus Teague is clearly worse than Rubio and cost $5M more cap space in the year where cap space was at its most valuable in franchise history.

[Whole Truth]

If the old rumors of KAT giving a Butler or Me ultimatum are true than KAT is the source of our problems. If they are true KAT in the interview is a low life liar whether PC or not. If they are not true than KAT is being honest and would embrace Jimmy returning. If KAT is lying I don't care if it helps the team. If true KAT is a self serving lying POS. I really hope it is the alternative.

I don't think that was a one way street, I think both had their it's me or him moments. I know the trade rumors were not from strong sources but I do think that Butler asked out first & Thibs considered moving Kat to appease Butler. I think Taylor nixed Thibs on trading Kat as he prevented him from trading Wiggins before handing out his long extension, it doesn't surprise me that in this situation Thibs still wants to keep Butler & Taylor went over his head to extend Kat & requested a trade for Butler done as quick as possible...

It matches in a way, what played out with Wiggins.

KAT would most likely command the biggest trade package of all time, but I don't think Thibs was ever considering trading him. Giving KAT a Supermax extension was a no brainer. That was IMO one of the few times that Thibs and Taylor were on the same page.

I won't be able to respond after this.

Kat for Ayton rumor made alot of sense for both teams involved, him being a former team-mate of Booker & Ayton being a talented young, cheap big coming back to replace/reset Kat.

I don't know if true but it's something if I were in this position would definitely contemplate. I'd have Butler & Ayton, instead of Kat maxed & Butler wanting to walk for cents on the dollar.