Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[Neeva]

Yea jackson looks at this point worse than wiggins in his second year he can rebound but can’t shoot. I’d take a chance on him for teague though lol
Two back to back possible lottery busts in jackson and bender that sucks for the Suns.

As a Timberwolf fan, would you accept a Josh Jackson/Dragan Bender/Tyson Chandler deal for Jimmy Butler and Tyus Jones?

Jackson is a young prospect with potential. Bender is a bust but maybe he can carve out some type of role in Minny and him and Tyson are both expiring contracts.

Chandler seems like the mentor that Towns could use as well.

I wouldn't.

- Jackson seems to be a bit of a headcase and is, right now, a below average player.

- Bender is no kind of asset. He's Nikoloz Tskitishvili with a bigger contract. He's the kind of guy you have to attach a first round pick to in order to get another team to take him on. Nobody with his physical gifts and alleged skills has underwhelmed to quite the same extent in the league as he has for as long as I can remember (maybe Kwame Brown).

- Chandler is old and coasting towards retirement.

In summary, I'd rather let Jimmy walk than take on that package.

I tried to make a good counter-proposal, but looking at the Suns roster right now, I kind of doubt that there's any combination of players on the Suns (that doesn't include Ayton or Booker) that looks appealing for a trade. Sorry. At least you don't have Glen Taylor.

How about this: we trade you Jimmy AND Andrew Wiggins, and we get Diamondback season tickets?

[Asif16]

Not here to Troll, just curious. What do you guys think of this deal

Ibaka + OG for Butler

Pretty simple and straightforward trade.

[KGdaBom]

Not here to Troll, just curious. What do you guys think of this deal

Ibaka + OG for Butler

Pretty simple and straightforward trade.

Nope.

[Nick K]

As a Timberwolf fan, would you accept a Josh Jackson/Dragan Bender/Tyson Chandler deal for Jimmy Butler and Tyus Jones?

Jackson is a young prospect with potential. Bender is a bust but maybe he can carve out some type of role in Minny and him and Tyson are both expiring contracts.

Chandler seems like the mentor that Towns could use as well.

That's really a terrible deal. Too risky.

[minimus]

While I think this is just posturing, is there any precedence in the NBA, or any league for that matter where a player very publicly asked for a trade and comes back to the team?

Happened all the time. Scottie Pippen was frustrated with his contracted asked for trade. The difference now is media.

[wolves_89]

Not here to Troll, just curious. What do you guys think of this deal

Ibaka + OG for Butler

Pretty simple and straightforward trade.

Ibaka has significant negative value and while Anunoby has enough value to dump Ibaka, he has nowhere near enough value to do that and acquire Butler. Also, this would put the Wolves over the luxury tax line which is unlikely to happen.

[minimus]

Two seasons ago this team was the best team to develop full of young talents, cap space, picks, no cancer in locker room. Thibs USED resources that he was given. KAT, Dieng, Bjelica, Tyus, Wiggins, LaVine, Rubio + cap space + picks. In my opinion he used them awfully bad. No visible development from coaching for KAT, Wiggins. Only Tyus got significantly better in defense, misuse of players, bad rotation. Signed players who are not ideal fit: Gibson, Teague, JC. Aldrich was a complete miss. So Thibs did not create any additional value to this franchise as for now. Chemistry is destroyed. Later it might be that KBD, Okogie will turn into stars, later it might be that Patton will be a NBA player. It might be that Butler trade will net us someone like Richardson. It means that in first three years there was no significant progress as franchise. In best case scenario after this season mess it will be Richardson + Okogie + KBD + Patton + FRP - LaVine - Dunn - Markannen - Rubio - Bjelica - cap space - 3 years of development.

It looks like Thibs is good at drafting. But he is not a scout or HC assistant. He is GM/HC, and these are two completely different jobs, and I don't see much of positive results of his activities as GM/HC

We can disagree, that's cool. You're looking for big jumps instead of steady improvement and you have to factor in all of the variable like player's choice, market rate, injuries, etc. etc. Thibs made it known that his first year was about evaluating the talent already on board, so he did not sign anyone of significance. The next year, almost every team in the league had cap space because of the television deal and the increase in the cap. Everybody signed that off season got overpaid to some degree. But that's also the seaon we saw an increase in our win total and we made the playoffs.

Now, here we are in the present. If Jimmy Butler does not request a trade, we're not even having these conversations and with an improved bench thru the draft and free agency, we looking to build on last year. This is not about Jimmy getting his money, because the Wolves would have made sure of that, this is all about Jimmy's personal preferences and whether he believes he can win here in Minnesota. Thibs can't predict another man's will or motivations, his job is too put the best team on the floor and the process was working.

The biggest issue now as you can see, is that Thibs assembled dysfunctional roster, overpaid frouncourt to make his patented defence work, while on the wings we are lacking 3pt shooting, size and athleticism.He traded two defensive minded PGs and overpaid Teague who is liability in defense and just an average passer. I did not see how Butler himself cured all these issues.

The problem with Butler and management is that Thibs refused to trade Butler after the end of the season, heck, Thibs still refuses this idea. As result we are in this mess now which bothers whole franchise, all players and destroyed any chemistry. The problem IS NOT Butler trade request itself. The issue is how our GM/POBO/Coach handled it. And Thibs is absolutely WORST GM in this regard:

1) He lost his locker room
2) He lost trust from owner
3) He lost trust of his best player (KAT) Who did not want to sign extension
4) He lost trust of his former best player (Butler) Who publicly made concern in media about whole process
5) He lost time refusing to accept reality

[KGdaBom]

Two seasons ago this team was the best team to develop full of young talents, cap space, picks, no cancer in locker room. Thibs USED resources that he was given. KAT, Dieng, Bjelica, Tyus, Wiggins, LaVine, Rubio + cap space + picks. In my opinion he used them awfully bad. No visible development from coaching for KAT, Wiggins. Only Tyus got significantly better in defense, misuse of players, bad rotation. Signed players who are not ideal fit: Gibson, Teague, JC. Aldrich was a complete miss. So Thibs did not create any additional value to this franchise as for now. Chemistry is destroyed. Later it might be that KBD, Okogie will turn into stars, later it might be that Patton will be a NBA player. It might be that Butler trade will net us someone like Richardson. It means that in first three years there was no significant progress as franchise. In best case scenario after this season mess it will be Richardson + Okogie + KBD + Patton + FRP - LaVine - Dunn - Markannen - Rubio - Bjelica - cap space - 3 years of development.

It looks like Thibs is good at drafting. But he is not a scout or HC assistant. He is GM/HC, and these are two completely different jobs, and I don't see much of positive results of his activities as GM/HC

We can disagree, that's cool. You're looking for big jumps instead of steady improvement and you have to factor in all of the variable like player's choice, market rate, injuries, etc. etc. Thibs made it known that his first year was about evaluating the talent already on board, so he did not sign anyone of significance. The next year, almost every team in the league had cap space because of the television deal and the increase in the cap. Everybody signed that off season got overpaid to some degree. But that's also the seaon we saw an increase in our win total and we made the playoffs.

Now, here we are in the present. If Jimmy Butler does not request a trade, we're not even having these conversations and with an improved bench thru the draft and free agency, we looking to build on last year. This is not about Jimmy getting his money, because the Wolves would have made sure of that, this is all about Jimmy's personal preferences and whether he believes he can win here in Minnesota. Thibs can't predict another man's will or motivations, his job is too put the best team on the floor and the process was working.

The biggest issue now as you can see, is that Thibs assembled dysfunctional roster, overpaid frouncourt to make his patented defence work, while on the wings we are lacking 3pt shooting, size and athleticism.He traded two defensive minded PGs and overpaid Teague who is liability in defense and just an average passer. I did not see how Butler himself cured all these issues.

The problem with Butler and management is that Thibs refused to trade Butler after the end of the season, heck, Thibs still refuses this idea. As result we are in this mess now which bothers whole franchise, all players and destroyed any chemistry. The problem IS NOT Butler trade request itself. The issue is how our GM/POBO/Coach handled it. And Thibs is absolutely WORST GM in this regard:

1) He lost his locker room
2) He lost trust from owner
3) He lost trust of his best player (KAT) Who did not want to sign extension
4) He lost trust of his former best player (Butler) Who publicly made concern in media about whole process
5) He lost time refusing to accept reality

You're bias is just ridiculous. Let's see how it all works out.

[Nick K]

We can disagree, that's cool. You're looking for big jumps instead of steady improvement and you have to factor in all of the variable like player's choice, market rate, injuries, etc. etc. Thibs made it known that his first year was about evaluating the talent already on board, so he did not sign anyone of significance. The next year, almost every team in the league had cap space because of the television deal and the increase in the cap. Everybody signed that off season got overpaid to some degree. But that's also the seaon we saw an increase in our win total and we made the playoffs.

Now, here we are in the present. If Jimmy Butler does not request a trade, we're not even having these conversations and with an improved bench thru the draft and free agency, we looking to build on last year. This is not about Jimmy getting his money, because the Wolves would have made sure of that, this is all about Jimmy's personal preferences and whether he believes he can win here in Minnesota. Thibs can't predict another man's will or motivations, his job is too put the best team on the floor and the process was working.

The biggest issue now as you can see, is that Thibs assembled dysfunctional roster, overpaid frouncourt to make his patented defence work, while on the wings we are lacking 3pt shooting, size and athleticism.He traded two defensive minded PGs and overpaid Teague who is liability in defense and just an average passer. I did not see how Butler himself cured all these issues.

The problem with Butler and management is that Thibs refused to trade Butler after the end of the season, heck, Thibs still refuses this idea. As result we are in this mess now which bothers whole franchise, all players and destroyed any chemistry. The problem IS NOT Butler trade request itself. The issue is how our GM/POBO/Coach handled it. And Thibs is absolutely WORST GM in this regard:

1) He lost his locker room
2) He lost trust from owner
3) He lost trust of his best player (KAT) Who did not want to sign extension
4) He lost trust of his former best player (Butler) Who publicly made concern in media about whole process
5) He lost time refusing to accept reality

You're bias is just ridiculous. Let's see how it all works out.

Minimus is right. It's not bias it's fact.

Thibs got boo'd by the hometown fans tonight in pregame. Take a hint Thibs you stubborn jerk.

Thibs can't do both jobs. He's a bad GM and coach. I'd just as soon let him GM and find a new coach but it's not going to happen this year at least.

[vagelis]

I agree that Thibs has dissapointed me too as a coach.
As a GM he tried to fix the team short term with the Butler trade but it was a mistake for the long term.
We need to make a good trade or else the team is f..d
There are 2 trades which can fix this team, a Butler trade and and a Teague trade.
For me we have 2 main needs a good sf and a rim protector at center position

[Domejandro]

As a Timberwolf fan, would you accept a Josh Jackson/Dragan Bender/Tyson Chandler deal for Jimmy Butler and Tyus Jones?

Jackson is a young prospect with potential. Bender is a bust but maybe he can carve out some type of role in Minny and him and Tyson are both expiring contracts.

Chandler seems like the mentor that Towns could use as well.

The Tyus inclusion kills it for me personally, but I don't think it is a bad offer by any means.

[Klomp]

Here's a question....how would you rank the most often-rumored trade assets for both the Clippers and Heat? (Note: one list with players from both teams, not one list for each team)

[minimus]

I agree that Thibs has dissapointed me too as a coach.
As a GM he tried to fix the team short term with the Butler trade but it was a mistake for the long term.
We need to make a good trade or else the team is f..d
There are 2 trades which can fix this team, a Butler trade and and a Teague trade.
For me we have 2 main needs a good sf and a rim protector at center position

Sounds like MIA trade with Whiteside and Richardson

[vagelis]

I agree that Thibs has dissapointed me too as a coach.
As a GM he tried to fix the team short term with the Butler trade but it was a mistake for the long term.
We need to make a good trade or else the team is f..d
There are 2 trades which can fix this team, a Butler trade and and a Teague trade.
For me we have 2 main needs a good sf and a rim protector at center position

Sounds like MIA trade with Whiteside and Richardson

I don't know I would like something better than this but as for the positions yes.
Richardson is a good player but not something special for me. He is undersized for the sf position and has not the driving ability for a sg.
Whiteside is good but has a very big contract.
Adebayo is the asset I would like more from Miami even if he is not a clear center.

[minimus]

Here's a question....how would you rank the most often-rumored trade assets for both the Clippers and Heat? (Note: one list with players from both teams, not one list for each team)

Main criteria fit and contract

1) RoCo. I believe that a 3&D who does not need the ball, who can shoot and defend can fix many of our chemistry issues. Plus RoCo is big enough to defend some PFs.
2) PJ Tucker. Same as RoCo better defender, just an ok 3pt shooter. Very good contract, but he is more veteran at this point. No upside.
3) Richardson. Same as RoCo, but more PG/SG/SF defender.
4) Otto Porter. The best shooter of these three, average overall player and absolutely worst possible contract.
5) Tobias Harris the best comboforward when we speak about offense. Probably not more than expiring at this point.
6) Eric Gordon. Absolutely amazing fit at SG for us if he stays healthy. But that is a big if. He will seek a big contract at this point of his career.
7) Saric. Already a good shooter from 3pt, excellent passer and rebounder, limited, but smart defender. Fits our core as future stretch four.
8) Winslow. Very intriguing player because of his physical tools, defensive, passing ability. But he is still raw in offence and expiring. If we can re-sign him to 7-8mil per year deal AND he can develop reliable 3pt shot then it could be a steal.
9) Whiteside. The most valuable player of this group, we need a rim runner, rim protection. However, our offense is so dysfunctional so I already can imagine Hassan complaining about minutes, touches etc. He is a role player not a star. I am not sure that he understands it.

[Tukkerwolf]

Here's a question....how would you rank the most often-rumored trade assets for both the Clippers and Heat? (Note: one list with players from both teams, not one list for each team)

Main criteria fit and contract

1) RoCo. I believe that a 3&D who does not need the ball, who can shoot and defend can fix many of our chemistry issues. Plus RoCo is big enough to defend some PFs.
2) PJ Tucker. Same as RoCo better defender, just an ok 3pt shooter. Very good contract, but he is more veteran at this point. No upside.
3) Richardson. Same as RoCo, but more PG/SG/SF defender.
4) Otto Porter. The best shooter of these three, average overall player and absolutely worst possible contract.
5) Tobias Harris the best comboforward when we speak about offense. Probably not more than expiring at this point.
6) Eric Gordon. Absolutely amazing fit at SG for us if he stays healthy. But that is a big if. He will seek a big contract at this point of his career.
7) Saric. Already a good shooter from 3pt, excellent passer and rebounder, limited, but smart defender. Fits our core as future stretch four.
8) Winslow. Very intriguing player because of his physical tools, defensive, passing ability. But he is still raw in offence and expiring. If we can re-sign him to 7-8mil per year deal AND he can develop reliable 3pt shot then it could be a steal.
9) Whiteside. The most valuable player of this group, we need a rim runner, rim protection. However, our offense is so dysfunctional so I already can imagine Hassan complaining about minutes, touches etc. He is a role player not a star. I am not sure that he understands it.

I can live with that. Except I don't see a fit for Saric (and Gordon to a lesser degree) on this roster. I'd take Winslow before them 10/10.

[Klomp]

Here's a question....how would you rank the most often-rumored trade assets for both the Clippers and Heat? (Note: one list with players from both teams, not one list for each team)

Main criteria fit and contract

1) RoCo. I believe that a 3&D who does not need the ball, who can shoot and defend can fix many of our chemistry issues. Plus RoCo is big enough to defend some PFs.
2) PJ Tucker. Same as RoCo better defender, just an ok 3pt shooter. Very good contract, but he is more veteran at this point. No upside.
3) Richardson. Same as RoCo, but more PG/SG/SF defender.
4) Otto Porter. The best shooter of these three, average overall player and absolutely worst possible contract.
5) Tobias Harris the best comboforward when we speak about offense. Probably not more than expiring at this point.
6) Eric Gordon. Absolutely amazing fit at SG for us if he stays healthy. But that is a big if. He will seek a big contract at this point of his career.
7) Saric. Already a good shooter from 3pt, excellent passer and rebounder, limited, but smart defender. Fits our core as future stretch four.
8) Winslow. Very intriguing player because of his physical tools, defensive, passing ability. But he is still raw in offence and expiring. If we can re-sign him to 7-8mil per year deal AND he can develop reliable 3pt shot then it could be a steal.
9) Whiteside. The most valuable player of this group, we need a rim runner, rim protection. However, our offense is so dysfunctional so I already can imagine Hassan complaining about minutes, touches etc. He is a role player not a star. I am not sure that he understands it.

Someone didn't read the question....

[minimus]

Here's a question....how would you rank the most often-rumored trade assets for both the Clippers and Heat? (Note: one list with players from both teams, not one list for each team)

1) Bam
2) Richardson
3) Lou Williams
4) Tobias Harris
5) Whiteside

Someone didn't read the question....

[SO_MONEY]

Here's a question....how would you rank the most often-rumored trade assets for both the Clippers and Heat? (Note: one list with players from both teams, not one list for each team)

1. First Round Picks
2. SGA
3. Richardson
4. Robinson
5. Bam
6. Harris
7. Winslow
8. Junk/Filler Beverly, Bradley, Lou, KO ect...
9. Bad Contracts Whiteside, TJ, Waiters ect...


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[walk with me]

Keep butler!!!!

This team will go down in flames without him and anything we get back will be a lottery result. Just let this man walk in the off-season and start off from scratch with taj, drose, loul, and potentially jeff off the books.