Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVI

[payitforward]

...Plus, how can anyone "place" Ben Simmons anywhere -- he's had 1 season! A rookie season. In which he was better than any pg on your list not named Paul or Curry (agree that Harden isn't a pg).

Looked at another way, I'd trade anyone on your list straight up for Ben Simmons without a second thought. Including Curry & Paul, just b/c of how young he is.

Curry for Simmons I just can’t get behind at all. Even though Curry is 30, his game is pretty much ageless. Simmons is good & is going to be very good for a while, but OTOH, he can barely shoot out of a brown paper bag at midrange.

I love Curry. But, this is a typical "beauty contest" response. Look at ALL of the things Ben Simmons does, & don't explain away any differences.

Then look at the fact that this was a rookie season!

[dckingsfan]

fan or fanatic (n.) A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm

Hi dckingsfan--Are you going to do the predictions thread this year? Thanks!

Yep! Thanks for the reminder...

[WallStar]

Let's be honest, the only reason Wall isn't a sexy pick is because he doesn't have a solid 3pt jumper and his personality isn't that marketable. If he had a Beal type of range and didn't act bipolar with reports, he'd easily be considered a top 3 pg.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Let's be honest, the only reason Wall isn't a sexy pick is because he doesn't have a solid 3pt jumper and his personality isn't that marketable. If he had a Beal type of range and didn't act bipolar with reports, he'd easily be considered a top 3 pg.

I suffer from bipolar I.

Always bothers me. The word. The connotations it's used to mean. THE ACTUAL SUFFERING the disorder can bring to a life, a family, a career, and one's state of existence. IT AFFECTS EVERYTHING. Mind, body, spirit, lifestyle, legacy.

That said, I think John Wall's three-point shot is no longer a liability. He's worked hard and can make the three when it's open and he doesn't force the shot.

WALL IS A POOR CLUTCH PLAYER. He holds the ball too long and makes forced plays instead of making instinctive plays that involve TEAM. He seems to THINK HIS JOB is to take the big shot, not to facilitate for the TEAM TO WIN BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

He's got a crap coach who thinks superstars win AND THAT JOHN WALL is a superstar. John is NOT A SUPERSTAR. NO FREAKING WAY. Not even close.

All star. Yes. Really fast. HELL YES. Very good? Not in the clutch.

[WallStar]

Let's be honest, the only reason Wall isn't a sexy pick is because he doesn't have a solid 3pt jumper and his personality isn't that marketable. If he had a Beal type of range and didn't act bipolar with reports, he'd easily be considered a top 3 pg.

I suffer from bipolar I.

Always bothers me. The word. The connotations it's used to mean. THE ACTUAL SUFFERING the disorder can bring to a life, a family, a career, and one's state of existence. IT AFFECTS EVERYTHING. Mind, body, spirit, lifestyle, legacy.

That said, I think John Wall's three-point shot is no longer a liability. He's worked hard and can make the three when it's open and he doesn't force the shot.

WALL IS A POOR CLUTCH PLAYER. He holds the ball too long and makes forced plays instead of making instinctive plays that involve TEAM. He seems to THINK HIS JOB is to take the big shot, not to facilitate for the TEAM TO WIN BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

He's got a crap coach who thinks superstars win AND THAT JOHN WALL is a superstar. John is NOT A SUPERSTAR. NO FREAKING WAY. Not even close.

All star. Yes. Really fast. HELL YES. Very good? Not in the clutch.

My bad, didn't mean to offend anyone.

Simply wanted to illustrate that he has different moods when he speaks publicly. There are times when he's laughing, smiling and joking with reporters and others when he seems like he just woke up and can't wait for the questions to end.

As far as the three's go, he may not be a liability but I can't call him consistent either. Guys like Irving, Walker, Lillard etc have 150+ made 3's per year. Wall had 62 last year.

[payitforward]

Let's be honest, the only reason Wall isn't a sexy pick is because he doesn't have a solid 3pt jumper and his personality isn't that marketable. If he had a Beal type of range and didn't act bipolar with reports, he'd easily be considered a top 3 pg.

Congratulations. You have just made one of the half dozen most ridiculous posts in the 6 plus years I've been on this board.

For starters, you just said that if he was a better player ("solid 3pt jumper"), he'd be considered a better player. You know what, you are right about that! Wow... thank you for your insight.

Plus, even if one were to grant you that improved 3 point shot, you think that with a better personality he would be considered in a class with Chris Paul, Steph Curry, James Harden, Russell Westbrook? No, not really. & if he were, that would put him in the top 5 not the top 3. Not to mention that I doubt Kyle Lowry & a handful of others are getting up-rated on personality.

Sheesh.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Let's be honest, the only reason Wall isn't a sexy pick is because he doesn't have a solid 3pt jumper and his personality isn't that marketable. If he had a Beal type of range and didn't act bipolar with reports, he'd easily be considered a top 3 pg.

I suffer from bipolar I.

Always bothers me. The word. The connotations it's used to mean. THE ACTUAL SUFFERING the disorder can bring to a life, a family, a career, and one's state of existence. IT AFFECTS EVERYTHING. Mind, body, spirit, lifestyle, legacy.

That said, I think John Wall's three-point shot is no longer a liability. He's worked hard and can make the three when it's open and he doesn't force the shot.

WALL IS A POOR CLUTCH PLAYER. He holds the ball too long and makes forced plays instead of making instinctive plays that involve TEAM. He seems to THINK HIS JOB is to take the big shot, not to facilitate for the TEAM TO WIN BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

He's got a crap coach who thinks superstars win AND THAT JOHN WALL is a superstar. John is NOT A SUPERSTAR. NO FREAKING WAY. Not even close.

All star. Yes. Really fast. HELL YES. Very good? Not in the clutch.

My bad, didn't mean to offend anyone.

Simply wanted to illustrate that he has different moods when he speaks publicly. There are times when he's laughing, smiling and joking with reporters and others when he seems like he just woke up and can't wait for the questions to end.

As far as the three's go, he may not be a liability but I can't call him consistent either. Guys like Irving, Walker, Lillard etc have 150+ made 3's per year. Wall had 62 last year.

Not your bad. Thanks for your understanding.

Every now and then I'm the sensitive one. No offense taken...

Sent from my SM-J337T using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Let's be honest, the only reason Wall isn't a sexy pick is because he doesn't have a solid 3pt jumper and his personality isn't that marketable. If he had a Beal type of range and didn't act bipolar with reports, he'd easily be considered a top 3 pg.

I suffer from bipolar I.

Always bothers me. The word. The connotations it's used to mean. THE ACTUAL SUFFERING the disorder can bring to a life, a family, a career, and one's state of existence. IT AFFECTS EVERYTHING. Mind, body, spirit, lifestyle, legacy.

That said, I think John Wall's three-point shot is no longer a liability. He's worked hard and can make the three when it's open and he doesn't force the shot.

WALL IS A POOR CLUTCH PLAYER. He holds the ball too long and makes forced plays instead of making instinctive plays that involve TEAM. He seems to THINK HIS JOB is to take the big shot, not to facilitate for the TEAM TO WIN BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

He's got a crap coach who thinks superstars win AND THAT JOHN WALL is a superstar. John is NOT A SUPERSTAR. NO FREAKING WAY. Not even close.

All star. Yes. Really fast. HELL YES. Very good? Not in the clutch.

My bad, didn't mean to offend anyone.

Simply wanted to illustrate that he has different moods when he speaks publicly. There are times when he's laughing, smiling and joking with reporters and others when he seems like he just woke up and can't wait for the questions to end.

As far as the three's go, he may not be a liability but I can't call him consistent either. Guys like Irving, Walker, Lillard etc have 150+ made 3's per year. Wall had 62 last year.

John Wall is a young man.

John Wall overcame. His Dad had hard times. John IS A FREAKING HUGE SUCCESS....

My criticism is that of a 57-year old, 40-year Bullets and Wizards fan who is an idealist. John Wall is a HOF player who wins multiple championships with a team like the Lakers. He's a great compliment to a true star. He's politically incorrect in ways I mostly like. Dude is what he is and isn't planning on changing.

The problem IMzo is that his coach is a dullard and a master enabler.

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[youngWizzy]

Sort of un-related but this kid Yuta Watanabe looks like he will be a solid player. Absolutely loved his game at GW seeing him a few times and I believe I talked about him before. He also loves playing defense which is probably why the Grizzlies picked him up. Should have been drafted to me.

Watch on YouTube

[payitforward]

Let's be honest, the only reason Wall isn't a sexy pick is because he doesn't have a solid 3pt jumper and his personality isn't that marketable. If he had a Beal type of range and didn't act bipolar with reports, he'd easily be considered a top 3 pg.

Congratulations. You have just made one of the half dozen most ridiculous posts in the 6 plus years I've been on this board.

For starters, you just said that if he was a better player ("solid 3pt jumper"), he'd be considered a better player. You know what, you are right about that! Wow... thank you for your insight.

Plus, even if one were to grant you that improved 3 point shot, you think that with a better personality he would be considered in a class with Chris Paul, Steph Curry, James Harden, Russell Westbrook? No, not really. & if he were, that would put him in the top 5 not the top 3. Not to mention that I doubt Kyle Lowry & a handful of others are getting up-rated on personality.

Sheesh.

No call for the tone of the above, man. Sorry. Dunno why the overestimation of John Wall -- who is a heck of a player! -- keeps bothering me. Gotta work on it.

[Ruzious]

Sort of un-related but this kid Yuta Watanabe looks like he will be a solid player. Absolutely loved his game at GW seeing him a few times and I believe I talked about him before. He also loves playing defense which is probably why the Grizzlies picked him up. Should have been drafted to me.

Watch on YouTube

That was fun to watch. Wierd how his DBPM was bad in college despite being a great defender. Maybe a player like him making it will make NBA folks look closer at Ajdin Paneva from Marshall - now playing in Europe.

[NatP4]

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[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Here’s what he actually said.

I could walk down the street in Warsaw and shoot somebody and still be elected President.

So pass me the f-ing ball or you’ll find a package from my friend Vladislav on your porch in the morning

[JWizmentality]

Read on Twitter

"If a guard meets you at the rim, don't try to block the shot...keep em guessing!"

[Illmatic12]

Read on Twitter

"Do as I say! Not as I do.."

[Dat2U]

My PG list based on this coming season. I factor in proven ability to step up in the playoffs.

1. Curry
2. Paul

Small gap

3. Westbrook

Big gap

4. Wall
5. Irving
6. B. Simmons
7. Lowry
8. Lillard
9. K. Walker

Very little separates spots 4-9.

10. Conley
11. Bledsoe
12. Dinwiddie
13. Rubio
14. J. Murray
15. VanVleet
16. D. Collison
17. Rozier
18. Ty. Jones
19. D. Murray
20. Dragic

More problems with these "beauty contest" ratings. Rajon Rondo is not among the top 20 PGs in the league?

Rondo had a very good year last year -- a lot better than John's year.
Rondo has had a hell of a career -- over all the years both guys have played, I doubt a lot of people would put John Wall ahead of him.
Rondo has certainly stepped up in the playoffs.

Of course Dat or anybody can list whatever guys he wants in whatever order pleases him. If the numbers support the guy being there, it's "look at the numbers he put up...." If the number don't support the guy being there, it's "I don't care about the numbers; this isn't a numbers game."

& there you have the problem. Fortunately, as we all know, numbers play absolutely no role in basketball. Basketball is a display of "talent" -- kind of like a floor routine in gymnastics. All you have to do is watch & then hold up a card that reads "10".

Or maybe it's more like ballet. I know, how about bull-fighting? "Ole!"

A. We disagree on measuring a given player's performance so while you suggest Rondo is STILL a very good player, I see him as non-descript middle-of-the-road PG who still passes pretty well but doesn't score, hurts spacing and only defends when he's inspired to do so. I see AD, Holiday & Mirotic as the big driving forces in the Pelicians success, not Rondo. Apparently neither did the Pels because they saw fellow bricklayer Elfrid Payton as a better option at PG going forward.

But we had this argument a few years ago when Chicago experimented with a non-shooting lineup featuring Rondo, Wade & Butler. A roster so talented they couldn't help but be good according to you even though I screamed it was a horrible fit due to ball dominant non-spacers but fit never mattered much to you.

B. I'm not making a list based on who's did what in the past. My list takes that into consideration but is based on what I expect to happen next year. Obviously, I expect Wall to have a pretty good year.

C. Playoffs matter. I have no idea why more stats gurus don't take this into account. Obviously the reason we play games is to have a playoffs to determine a champion. So how come whenever we discuss which player is better than who, we only throw out regular season numbers? So while it's good to know the RPM, WS48 or PER of a player during the regular season, these numbers take even more significance in the post season as the games are far more important. As to coming up with a specific measurement or formula to determine how much it should count, I'll leave that up to the math geeks, but a guy like Lillard, who has come up short in the playoffs 3 years in a row has to be dinged. Same with Lowry & DeRozan.

D. It's always a numbers game with you which makes debating you somewhat hard because again, you view your particular measurement tool which such certainty as if it's the only clear way to determine a player's standing when there's so much not captured by these basic stats. I've argued the absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence but that's fallen on deaf ears.

[dckingsfan]

I think wall creates a bi-polar affect from fans.

Those that love him cite his assist/TO ratio and are right to do so. They like to point out that the rest of the team can't get their own shots without him.

Those who don't look at the last post season, Wall took 27 shots to get 26 points - it wasn't good for team ball. I think that puts his TS% around 50th during the playoffs for those playing more than 200 minutes. It's just one metric and maybe not the metric we should use when describing Wall but if you are a Wall critic (that he doesn't make those around him a lot better) then it is something to consider.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here’s what he actually said.

I could walk down the street in Warsaw and shoot somebody and still be elected President.

So pass me the f-ing ball or you’ll find a package from my friend Vladislav on your porch in the morning

He also said, "The blacks? What have they got to lose? I play basketball with many of them. Vote for me black people."

Or, he said something different...



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[NatP4]

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Bye bye 1st round pick.