Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[KGdaBom]

The only evidence we have is that the Wolves have done dramatically better under Thibs. We have zero evidence that the trade for Butler was a disaster. It was a great trade when it was made that any decent GM in the league would have jumped at the chance to make it. I'm thinking there is a good chance we keep Butler. If we trade him get Richardson and Bam that would be better than we gave up. Getting Richardson and Whiteside and moving Dieng would be better than what we gave up. The only way this goes wrong is if Glen does something to protect the Franchise.

More quotes for truth...


Some fans of this franchise seem to have severe cases of Stockholm syndrome.

Here are a few things we do know

1. Keeping Wiggins Kat and Zach together would have been a disaster. Kat and Wiggins alone is a disaster lol
2.its on record that thibs was willing to dumb Wiggins
3. It’s also on record that glen was the one who committed a full max to Wiggins before even seeing how he’d perform as a free agent.


I’ll let the Stockholm syndrome victims do the math. Thibs is far from perfect especially for this franchise but glen maxing Wiggins alone is far more damage long term to this franchise then anything thibs has done.

Edit: what damaging moves has thibs really made?

Zach Wiggins and Kat is an absolutely disaster of a core. Not only are they a disaster but the 3 would be expensive. So expensive that it would strap the franchise down trying to keep them. Markennen isn’t dirk and Dunn isn’t cp3. That core isn’t going anywhere. Thibs tried to salvage the disaster before it got obvious and glen panicked and pulled the team back into hell by maxing Wiggins.

That's the term I was looking for. Stockholm syndrome. That is what so many of our fans are suffering from. Thibs and Butler come to rescue us and we want to go back to our kidnappers. We are Patty Hurst.

[Neeva]

I hope the thibs apologists go when he gets canned tbh.

[Neeva]

The team won inspite of thibs awful offensive system and coaching and butler wants out!

The only evidence we have is that the Wolves have done dramatically better under Thibs. We have zero evidence that the trade for Butler was a disaster. It was a great trade when it was made that any decent GM in the league would have jumped at the chance to make it. I'm thinking there is a good chance we keep Butler. If we trade him get Richardson and Bam that would be better than we gave up. Getting Richardson and Whiteside and moving Dieng would be better than what we gave up. The only way this goes wrong is if Glen does something to protect the Franchise.

More quotes for truth...


Some fans of this franchise seem to have severe cases of Stockholm syndrome.

Here are a few things we do know

1. Keeping Wiggins Kat and Zach together would have been a disaster. Kat and Wiggins alone is a disaster lol
2.its on record that thibs was willing to dumb Wiggins
3. It’s also on record that glen was the one who committed a full max to Wiggins before even seeing how he’d perform as a free agent.


I’ll let the Stockholm syndrome victims do the math. Thibs is far from perfect especially for this franchise but glen maxing Wiggins alone is far more damage long term to this franchise then anything thibs has done.

Edit: what damaging moves has thibs really made?

Zach Wiggins and Kat is an absolutely disaster of a core. Not only are they a disaster but the 3 would be expensive. So expensive that it would strap the franchise down trying to keep them. Markennen isn’t dirk and Dunn isn’t cp3. That core isn’t going anywhere. Thibs tried to salvage the disaster before it got obvious and glen panicked and pulled the team back into hell by maxing Wiggins.

That's the term I was looking for. Stockholm syndrome. That is what so many of our fans are suffering from. Thibs and Butler come to rescue us and we want to go back to our kidnappers. We are Patty Hurst.

[walk with me]

I hope the thibs apologists go when he gets canned tbh.

apologists for what though? Tell me what moves thibs made that’s been so disastrous to the franchise.

The single most damaging move was maxing Wiggins and that wasn’t thibs.

Mostly every thing else people hate thibs for is purely subjective. Yelling at players, not being friendly, not shooting enough 3s, not playing the bench, dated style is really a matter of personal taste cause at the very end of the seaso all that matters is what show in the W-L column and last year what he did was enough.

And I think everyone can agree that Wiggins is basically garbage and Kat has a ways to go. Thibs is a coach, not the wizard of oz who’s going to give Wiggins heart and Kat courage and Zach a brain

[walk with me]

That's the term I was looking for. Stockholm syndrome. That is what so many of our fans are suffering from. Thibs and Butler come to rescue us and we want to go back to our kidnappers. We are Patty Hurst.

I’m obviously newer here and not going to pretend I’m not but I want this team to win lol. Sure, thibs style of coaching is ugly but some people choose to ignore it has delivered wins. To discredit him they say it’s the talent only but leave out how we were in third until jimmy went down and Kat/Wiggins couldn’t carry the weight. The problems with this team are so very simple, yes there may be many smaller issues but the main two issues are the ones nobody wants to acknowledge.

1. Wiggins is paid like a max player but performs like a scrub
2. Kat plays like a rookie with potential and hasn’t taken the jump that guys like Giannis/embiid/Simmons and a few others have

No coach will fix that

[AirP.]

While that is very true Thibs still made the deal for Butler which is now a disaster. He drafted Dunn when he should have taken my guy Jamal Murray. We would never have made the move for Teague and overpay. We even could have played Murray and Rubio together.

Thibs continues to make one bad move after another. By the time Glen fires him he will have destroyed this franchise. His players hate him. Why do you think he keeps bringing back players from Chicago? He's running an outdated system too.

Glen has his faults but he has to do what he can to protect the franchise.

You do understand, even with your man Murray this team wouldn't be a playoff team still, who knows if it would be in the next few years.

The big question should be why is Butler citing money as an issue to request a trade when Minnesota can give him the most money by far? I don't think that's a Thibs problem, do you? I kinda think it's an owner problem, he had no problem giving Wiggins the max, even went through the media to proclaim it, now with Butler, he made the all-nba team, he helped get the team into the playoffs after not even getting close to .500 for many years. Maybe, just maybe the owner is screwing up this franchise left and right.

[Klomp]

The big question should be why is Butler citing money as an issue to request a trade when Minnesota can give him the most money by far?

He doesn't want to stay in Minnesota! So the way to get the most money is to force his way out so his Bird rights transfer rather than to wait until free agency to leave.

[KGdaBom]

While that is very true Thibs still made the deal for Butler which is now a disaster. He drafted Dunn when he should have taken my guy Jamal Murray. We would never have made the move for Teague and overpay. We even could have played Murray and Rubio together.

Thibs continues to make one bad move after another. By the time Glen fires him he will have destroyed this franchise. His players hate him. Why do you think he keeps bringing back players from Chicago? He's running an outdated system too.

Glen has his faults but he has to do what he can to protect the franchise.

You do understand, even with your man Murray this team wouldn't be a playoff team still, who knows if it would be in the next few years.

The big question should be why is Butler citing money as an issue to request a trade when Minnesota can give him the most money by far? I don't think that's a Thibs problem, do you? I kinda think it's an owner problem, he had no problem giving Wiggins the max, even went through the media to proclaim it, now with Butler, he made the all-nba team, he helped get the team into the playoffs after not even getting close to .500 for many years. Maybe, just maybe the owner is screwing up this franchise left and right.

I believe it is.

[KGdaBom]

The big question should be why is Butler citing money as an issue to request a trade when Minnesota can give him the most money by far?

He doesn't want to stay in Minnesota! So the way to get the most money is to force his way out so his Bird rights transfer rather than to wait until free agency to leave.

Is it just possible the reason he wants out of Minnesota is because he has been given indication that Minnesota will not give him the max?

[KGdaBom]

I hope the thibs apologists go when he gets canned tbh.

Why??
The people making the case for Thibs love the Wolves and have every bit as much right to post here as the haters which is what you are.

[wildvikeswolves]

I hope the thibs apologists go when he gets canned tbh.

apologists for what though? Tell me what moves thibs made that’s been so disastrous to the franchise.

The single most damaging move was maxing Wiggins and that wasn’t thibs.

Mostly every thing else people hate thibs for is purely subjective. Yelling at players, not being friendly, not shooting enough 3s, not playing the bench, dated style is really a matter of personal taste cause at the very end of the seaso all that matters is what show in the W-L column and last year what he did was enough.

And I think everyone can agree that Wiggins is basically garbage and Kat has a ways to go. Thibs is a coach, not the wizard of oz who’s going to give Wiggins heart and Kat courage and Zach a brain

Dieng contract? Not Thibs fault either probably right?

Thibs is so stuck in the past and delusional.

[KGdaBom]

I hope the thibs apologists go when he gets canned tbh.

apologists for what though? Tell me what moves thibs made that’s been so disastrous to the franchise.

The single most damaging move was maxing Wiggins and that wasn’t thibs.

Mostly every thing else people hate thibs for is purely subjective. Yelling at players, not being friendly, not shooting enough 3s, not playing the bench, dated style is really a matter of personal taste cause at the very end of the seaso all that matters is what show in the W-L column and last year what he did was enough.

And I think everyone can agree that Wiggins is basically garbage and Kat has a ways to go. Thibs is a coach, not the wizard of oz who’s going to give Wiggins heart and Kat courage and Zach a brain

Dieng contract? Not Thibs fault either probably right?

Thibs is so stuck in the past and delusional.

Gee he made one bad move overpaying one player when everybody was being overpaid. Dieng was coming off an amazing season of scoring super efficiently, playing D and rebounding. Yes an overpay, but at that time nobody thought much of it. You expect him to be perfect and if he isn't he is stuck in the past and delusional. I hope everybody judges you by the same standards. Why don't you throw in that he should have drafted Murray instead of Dunn. It's always easy to look back at a draft and be a genius about who we should have picked. He maybe should have kept Rubio, but is Rubio more valuable than Teague and Okogie?

[wildvikeswolves]

apologists for what though? Tell me what moves thibs made that’s been so disastrous to the franchise.

The single most damaging move was maxing Wiggins and that wasn’t thibs.

Mostly every thing else people hate thibs for is purely subjective. Yelling at players, not being friendly, not shooting enough 3s, not playing the bench, dated style is really a matter of personal taste cause at the very end of the seaso all that matters is what show in the W-L column and last year what he did was enough.

And I think everyone can agree that Wiggins is basically garbage and Kat has a ways to go. Thibs is a coach, not the wizard of oz who’s going to give Wiggins heart and Kat courage and Zach a brain

Dieng contract? Not Thibs fault either probably right?

Thibs is so stuck in the past and delusional.

Gee he made one bad move overpaying one player when everybody was being overpaid. Dieng was coming off an amazing season of scoring super efficiently, playing D and rebounding. Yes an overpay, but at that time nobody thought much of it. You expect him to be perfect and if he isn't he is stuck in the past and delusional. I hope everybody judges you by the same standards. Why don't you throw in that he should have drafted Murray instead of Dunn. It's always easy to look back at a draft and be a genius about who we should have picked. He maybe should have kept Rubio, but is Rubio more valuable than Teague and Okogie?

“Tell me what moves thibs made that’s been so disastrous to the franchise.”

Points one out besides Wiggins contract

[Neeva]

Teague and gibson contracts werent good either they each got overpayed by about 4-5 million then there was drafting Patton..

Dieng contract? Not Thibs fault either probably right?

Thibs is so stuck in the past and delusional.

Gee he made one bad move overpaying one player when everybody was being overpaid. Dieng was coming off an amazing season of scoring super efficiently, playing D and rebounding. Yes an overpay, but at that time nobody thought much of it. You expect him to be perfect and if he isn't he is stuck in the past and delusional. I hope everybody judges you by the same standards. Why don't you throw in that he should have drafted Murray instead of Dunn. It's always easy to look back at a draft and be a genius about who we should have picked. He maybe should have kept Rubio, but is Rubio more valuable than Teague and Okogie?

“Tell me what moves thibs made that’s been so disastrous to the franchise.”

Points one out besides Wiggins contract

[walk with me]

Dieng contract? Not Thibs fault either probably right?

Thibs is so stuck in the past and delusional.

The reality is this team could survive the gorgui deal... it’s def not a good deal but it’s not catastrophic. Wiggins deal is catastrophic.

[walk with me]

Teague and gibson contracts werent good either they each got overpayed by about 4-5 million then there was drafting Patton..

I mean you can’t really use the Teague or Gibson contracts unless you’re not really thinking about how contracts effect the team.

First of all teague and Gibson deals being bad are totally subjective for many reasons. To list a few..... tajs deal is 2 years so even if you feel he’s over paid it doesn’t hurt the teams future. I can pretty much say the same with teagues deal. Both guys “OBJECTIVELY” performed to atleast the bare minimum of what was expected of them with those contracts.

I get you and others dislike thibs. Totally fine. But stating subjective opinions as if they’re facts makes you look silly.

Taj contract isn’t bad.... AT ALL!
Teague may be over paid... but his contract isn’t horrendous.

Andrew Wiggins contract is amongst the worst in the nba... this is totally objective.

Edit: and drafting Patton is irrelevant. Every team has **** picks. Do you watch basketball lol? I mean not trying to poke fun but literally every team has drafted crappy guys. It’s nothing new and totally irrelevant to the teams future

[minimus]

Teague and gibson contracts werent good either they each got overpayed by about 4-5 million then there was drafting Patton..

Gee he made one bad move overpaying one player when everybody was being overpaid. Dieng was coming off an amazing season of scoring super efficiently, playing D and rebounding. Yes an overpay, but at that time nobody thought much of it. You expect him to be perfect and if he isn't he is stuck in the past and delusional. I hope everybody judges you by the same standards. Why don't you throw in that he should have drafted Murray instead of Dunn. It's always easy to look back at a draft and be a genius about who we should have picked. He maybe should have kept Rubio, but is Rubio more valuable than Teague and Okogie?

“Tell me what moves thibs made that’s been so disastrous to the franchise.”

Points one out besides Wiggins contract

They will say that it was made to keep our financial flexibility. But they forget a few things:

1) for role players two years of overpaying contract does not bring any financial flexibility in our situation. Just think of it: would you rather have Gibson on 8-9 mil deal for 3 years or Gibson on 12 mil deal for two years? And the answer is simple 8-9mil brings you more value for more years. It is also simpler to trade Gibson on first contract.

2) Gibson and Teague contracts left no room to Bjelica and Tyus next contracts.

3) If you pay someone 12mil and 19mil it is harder to bench them in favour to bench players. Because if you bench them they will also lose trade value. They are paid as starters, but in reality both Teague and Gibson are better fit as backup guys at this point of their career.

4) 2yrs contracts means no Birds rights. Also there is not much sense for other team to trade for Gibson or Teague. If Gibson plays well then contracts is too short, when Teague is playing bad then his contract is too long.

To sum up: there was/is no reason to overpay Gibson and Teague. It was a mistake.

[walk with me]

Teague and gibson contracts werent good either they each got overpayed by about 4-5 million then there was drafting Patton..

“Tell me what moves thibs made that’s been so disastrous to the franchise.”

Points one out besides Wiggins contract

They will say that is was made to keep our financial flexibility. But they forget a few things:

1) for role players two years of overpaying contract does not bring any financial flexibility in our situation. Just think of it: would you rather have Gibson on 8-9 mil deal for 3 years or Gibson on 12 mil deal for two years? And the answer is simple 8-9mil brings you more value for more years. It is also simpler to trade Gibson on first contract.

2) Gibson and Teague contracts left no room to Bjelica and Tyus next contracts.

3) If you pay someone 12mil and 19mil it is harder to bench them in favour to bench players. Because if you bench them they will also lose trade value. They paid as starters, but in reality both Teague and Gibson are better fit as backup guys at this point of their career.

To sum up: there was/is no reason to overpay Gibson and Teague. It was a mistake.

What?! Cmon man lol. This is ridiculous

You cannot be serious. You’re saying completely outrageous things just to try and make thibs look stupid. Just say you hate thibs because his offense is ugly to watch. It’s far more respectable than your silly 1-3 points.

1- we don’t sign taj or Teague with those garbage deals you invented. BOTh guys get better deals elsewhere
2- bjelly and tyus are irrelevant replaceable bench players. Not key cogs that were instrumental in winning games. The only bench player last year who helped win games was Jamal on occasion. Tyus and bjelly just gave guys breaks.

Tolliver >Belly
Rose > Tyus

Replaced that simply. Even if you disagree and say tyus and bjelly are better, It’s still break even cause Tyus and Bjelly really didn’t do anything to get us extra wins. Rose and Bjelly at worst won’t either.

3- is so ridiculous. You play a bench when the bench is good enough to contribute. Our bench was amongst the worst in the nba last year, amongst playoff teams especially. If you think our bench was suitable last year I hope you’re comfortable with just being a bottom dweller team indefinitely.

One day I hope you wake up from your Stockholm syndrome slumber. Being the lovable loser isn’t good. Eventually it’s time to win and you can’t be a winning team worrying about someone like Tyus and bjelly being the first guys off the bench.

[minimus]

One day I hope you wake up from your Stockholm syndrome slumber.

If you just think for a second about Stockholm syndrome you might find it interesting, that your behaviour to Thibs fits this description more than anything else.

[shangrila]

While that is very true Thibs still made the deal for Butler which is now a disaster. He drafted Dunn when he should have taken my guy Jamal Murray. We would never have made the move for Teague and overpay. We even could have played Murray and Rubio together.

Thibs continues to make one bad move after another. By the time Glen fires him he will have destroyed this franchise. His players hate him. Why do you think he keeps bringing back players from Chicago? He's running an outdated system too.

Glen has his faults but he has to do what he can to protect the franchise.

You do understand, even with your man Murray this team wouldn't be a playoff team still, who knows if it would be in the next few years.

The big question should be why is Butler citing money as an issue to request a trade when Minnesota can give him the most money by far? I don't think that's a Thibs problem, do you? I kinda think it's an owner problem, he had no problem giving Wiggins the max, even went through the media to proclaim it, now with Butler, he made the all-nba team, he helped get the team into the playoffs after not even getting close to .500 for many years. Maybe, just maybe the owner is screwing up this franchise left and right.

...are you serious? It's fairly obvious the money angle is a smoke screen to deflect from whatever drama really led to his request.