Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[KGdaBom]

Not sure how reliable this is, just a horrible trade for Minnesota.

Minnesota would be moving their only healthy backup center, adding another PG while Miami keeps Whiteside and Bam, doesn't make much sense at all. Minnesota would then have Dragic, Teague, Rose and Tyus while only having Towns as their center till Patton comes back. Toss in that Dragic(32) is 3 1/2 years older then Butler and you're looking at just Richardson and Windsow in 2 years while giving away an all-nba talent. Just a horrible trade for Minnesota unless there's 1 or 2 follow uptrades to even out the roster.

Read on Twitter

It is far from an ideal return, but it is workable deal. I think we could find a trade for Dragic or Teague.

Contracts do not add up

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Contracts are fine. Both Minnesota and Miami are sending out more than they are taking on and Sacramento has the cap space.

[alabamawolf]

How about having a good dinner, watching a movie and get to sleep by 10:30 PM. It doesn't have to be late night video gaming or partying.

In a perfect world they’d all go to bed early and eat properly but these are multi millionaire athletes in their twenties. Temptation is all around them. We’re gonna have to be patient and let him grow. I guarantee when KAT gets married and has a kid he won’t have time to play video games anymore.

stuff like that is none of our business

Agreed

[Worm Guts]

Video games are fine, but neglecting basic health like getting good sleep isn't. Just because some players get away with it doesn't mean it's what should be done.

I’d rather them be playing video games than going out and partying a night before a game

How about having a good dinner, watching a movie and get to sleep by 10:30 PM. It doesn't have to be late night video gaming or partying.

These guys work in the evening. Their sleep schedule doesn’t need to look the same as someone who works 9-5.

[KGdaBom]

I’d rather them be playing video games than going out and partying a night before a game

How about having a good dinner, watching a movie and get to sleep by 10:30 PM. It doesn't have to be late night video gaming or partying.

These guys work in the evening. Their sleep schedule doesn’t need to look the same as someone who works 9-5.

True. They still need to get quality sleep whenever they get it.

[walk with me]

Wiggins and Kat are immature. It has nothing to do with video games. They’ve been pampered their whole life and unlike guys like Westbrook, steph, Giannis, embiid, dame, booker, ben Simmons, Donovan mitchell... they were crowned extremely early based off talent and not accomplishment which ruined their engines/desire to be great.

We trade Butler we aren't making the playoffs for at least five years and maybe another 13. I'm with Thibs on not trading Butler unless the value is at least reasonable. I like making the playoffs. We are stuck with Wiggins for another five years before we can upgrade if we lose Jimmy.

Your core is only 22 yrs old. I don't think it's a bad idea to be lotto bound one more yr. Around 24 and 25 is when players start maturing to compete on a high level. Getting one more elite prospect is not really all that bad. Might be an insurance if Wiggins is indeed a flop.

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One more year? Is the west suddenly becoming a trash conference?

W/O butler
Warriors - better than us for next 2-4 years
Houston - better than us for next 2-4 years
Lakers - ^
Okc - ^
Spurs - ^
Denver - Better than us for next 1-3 years
Portland - ^
Utah - ^
Memphis - ^

This doesn’t include Dallas, suns and clippers who either are ran properly or have brighter futures simply cause their players play hard. Unlike Wiggins.

[jpatrick]

I don’t believe the above-posted Miami trade. So, Miami is going to give up a FRP, Richardson, Winslow, and Dragic for the opportunity to max out Butler?

While we get three young assets in the FRP, Richardson, and Winslow; a positive asset in Dragic; and dump a highly negative asset in Dieng?

Would I love Bam? Of course. Whiteside? Heck no.

As far as roster construction, we’d probably need to move Teague or Dragic, but I think we could. Gibson is a backup center for most teams without Thibs as coach, so I think we’re fine there.

I hope we get this much. I just fear Thibs is going to keep him so we can sneak in to the playoffs. Then we’re left with nothing next offseason.

[alabamawolf]

Wiggins and Kat are immature. It has nothing to do with video games. They’ve been pampered their whole life and unlike guys like Westbrook, steph, Giannis, embiid, dame, booker, ben Simmons, Donovan mitchell... they were crowned extremely early based off talent and not accomplishment which ruined their engines/desire to be great.

We trade Butler we aren't making the playoffs for at least five years and maybe another 13. I'm with Thibs on not trading Butler unless the value is at least reasonable. I like making the playoffs. We are stuck with Wiggins for another five years before we can upgrade if we lose Jimmy.

Your core is only 22 yrs old. I don't think it's a bad idea to be lotto bound one more yr. Around 24 and 25 is when players start maturing to compete on a high level. Getting one more elite prospect is not really all that bad. Might be an insurance if Wiggins is indeed a flop.

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One more year? Is the west suddenly becoming a trash conference?

W/O butler
Warriors - better than us for next 2-4 years
Houston - better than us for next 2-4 years
Lakers - ^
Okc - ^
Spurs - ^
Denver - Better than us for next 1-3 years
Portland - ^
Utah - ^
Memphis - ^

This doesn’t include Dallas, suns and clippers who either are ran properly or have brighter futures simply cause their players play hard. Unlike Wiggins.

That top part is just speculation on your part. How can say someone Towns has gotten completely by with talent alone? Someone with his skill set is someone that works really hard.

[KGdaBom]

I don’t believe the above-posted Miami trade. So, Miami is going to give up a FRP, Richardson, Winslow, and Dragic for the opportunity to max out Butler?

While we get three young assets in the FRP, Richardson, and Winslow; a positive asset in Dragic; and dump a highly negative asset in Dieng?

Would I love Bam? Of course. Whiteside? Heck no.

As far as roster construction, we’d probably need to move Teague or Dragic, but I think we could. Gibson is a backup center for most teams without Thibs as coach, so I think we’re fine there.

I hope we get this much. I just fear Thibs is going to keep him so we can sneak in to the playoffs. Then we’re left with nothing next offseason.

If we keep Butler this season we should be able to resign him next season unless we go cheap.

[jpatrick]

That’s a huge gamble. It’s possible after all this Butler would take the 5 year 190m from us over a 4 year max from one of many teams with max space, but it’s not a certainty. Add on top of that, Towns’ reaction given that it certainly sounds like he was promised Butler would be gone as part of his signing the extension. I just don’t think it makes sense to keep Butler.

With the dysfunction it would cause, it’s not even a certainty that we’d make the 8th seed with him this year.

[shrink]

It is far from an ideal return, but it is workable deal. I think we could find a trade for Dragic or Teague.

Contracts do not add up

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Contracts are fine. Both Minnesota and Miami are sending out more than they are taking on and Sacramento has the cap space.

I don’t have numbers in front of me, but do the Kings really have the cap space to absorb Dieng and send out nothing?

[walk with me]

That top part is just speculation on your part. How can say someone Towns has gotten completely by with talent alone? Someone with his skill set is someone that works really hard.

Very easy to see that it’s not speculation.

Wiggins was hailed as the next Lebron since 10th or 11th grade and from that moment knew he would be in the nba due to AAU/youtube hype.

Kat is in the same boat but to a less degree... big men don’t get as much hype in the youtube/AAU circuit so he’s still playing to prove himself but that doesn’t mean he knows how to win.


Look a thing all the mega hyped AAU/youtube kids. They mostly all under achieve...

OJ Mayo
Brandon Jennings
Aaron Gordon
Andrew Wiggins
Austin rivers
Seventh woods
Aquille car
Dangelo Russell
Josh Shelby
Shabazz Mohammad
Gabe York

They get all the praise in the world before they actually achieve anything and it ruins their motors. Kat and Wiggins are hyper talented. So talented that they can get by without adding improvements. They both were essentially elite as rookies.

The problem is the longer you’re in the nba people learn your tendencies and you have to go against other elites. If you don’t learn how to win and make additions to your skill set then your talent is irrlebsnt.

Kat actually tries to improve. He’s still missing what it takes to win.
Wiggins doesn’t improve. Same player as his rookie year.

[Macwolf527]

Contracts do not add up

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Contracts are fine. Both Minnesota and Miami are sending out more than they are taking on and Sacramento has the cap space.

I don’t have numbers in front of me, but do the Kings really have the cap space to absorb Dieng and send out nothing?

They'll have to send out about 4.2 million to take on Dieng's contract. I think they have a little over 11 million in open space. My money is on Koufos or Randoph going to Miami.

[Dalvin]

It could very well be a 4 way trade.

Minnesota gets J.Richardson, Winslow and Dragic (frankly I prefer Dragic over Teague, so yay)
Miami gets Butler
Phoenix gets Teague
Sacramento gets Dieng, a 1st round pick from Miami, a 1st round pick (or two 2nd round picks) from Phoenix

Add in fillers if it doesn't work financially. But that could be the basic framework of the deal.

We get 2 young prospects, an established PG
Miami gets their superstar
Phoenix gets their point guard for a pick (or some picks)
Sacramento is paid with picks for shouldering Dieng's contract

[walk with me]

I wish someone could ask Glen on record if he’s willing to pay jimmy. Would be interesting to see how he answers.

[Macwolf527]

Not sure how reliable this is, just a horrible trade for Minnesota.

Minnesota would be moving their only healthy backup center, adding another PG while Miami keeps Whiteside and Bam, doesn't make much sense at all. Minnesota would then have Dragic, Teague, Rose and Tyus while only having Towns as their center till Patton comes back. Toss in that Dragic(32) is 3 1/2 years older then Butler and you're looking at just Richardson and Windsow in 2 years while giving away an all-nba talent. Just a horrible trade for Minnesota unless there's 1 or 2 follow uptrades to even out the roster.

Read on Twitter

It is far from an ideal return, but it is workable deal. I think we could find a trade for Dragic or Teague.

Contracts do not add up

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I'm hearing this is fake news without a reliable source. They're trashing the Twitter account that it came for. I'd rather not bring anybody back over 30 years of age. Plus, Dragic would leave the Heat without a playoff tested PG. I don't see that happening. I think the deal will end up being much smaller with one of those contracts in the $12 to $14 million range heading out of Miami. You'll have an easier chance of moving James Johnson, Olynyk or Waiters. Naturally Waiters is who Miami would like to move, but you'll have to attached a 1st round pick to him also and that makes 2 1st rounders if you're trying to move Dieng as well. Miami has crappy parts outside of Richardson and Bam, and their not willing to make it enticing. I would have walked away to if I was Thibs and they are not willing to sweeten the pot.

[thinktank]

"Hear is the structure"

Yeah, he seems legit.

[Slim Tubby]

Here we are holding out hope that Richardson is the centerpiece to any deal with MIA and yet I have to ask myself, how in the hell is he the centerpiece to any deal that's sending out a Top 10-15 player??? MIA has spent all this time trying to claim how valuable he is in their effort to build value but at the end of the day, I have no idea why we are even talking to them outside of Butler's group naming them as a preferred destination.

I mean, take a look at their roster and the **** contracts attached to them. I can't think of another team in the NBA that has that many bad deals with a roster full of marginal talent. I applaud Thibs for holding out on a deal and asking for the moon because quite frankly, MIA is trying to deal crap for quality and cap relief. It's time for Jimmy to own up to his contract, build up his trade value even further and then see what's available at the trade deadline.

[Rashodamus]

Lol, it's not about playing video games in general. He could be playing video games at times when he should be in the gym or watching film. We had an issue at work because we had employees playing Clash of Clan during working hours. You would hear someone say "Yo Rick send me 5 Hogs and 2 Dragons". Or "Yo mfer you got 5 mins to attack" while they on the phone with a customer. The older employees and supervisor didn't know what the hell they were doing. Lol

We actually had a dolphin player who got cut because he was addicted to madden.

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I think you are just applying that arbitrarily, you have no evidence he has neglected anything due to playing games. Obviously anything can distract people from accomplishing what they should, they could really like knitting and have a hard time pulling themselves away, doesnt really matter.

Theres 24 hours in a day, these guys effectively "work" 82 games a year for 2 hours. If they arent missing practices etc then everything outside of that is hard for me to judge. How much SHOULD a player be working out in the offseason etc? And to me that all comes down to the player. Im more of a balance person than a maniac, I think maniacs get diminishing returns and the additional work fuels ego more than anything else...I work harder. Work with the personality of the player to get the most out of them, dont demand they be what you think they should be, because if they disagree at all you failed.

[Rashodamus]

Here we are holding out hope that Richardson is the centerpiece to any deal with MIA and yet I have to ask myself, how in the hell is he the centerpiece to any deal that's sending out a Top 10-15 player??? MIA has spent all this time trying to claim how valuable he is in their effort to build value but at the end of the day, I have no idea why we are even talking to them outside of Butler's group naming them as a preferred destination.

I mean, take a look at their roster and the **** contracts attached to them. I can't think of another team in the NBA that has that many bad deals with a roster full of marginal talent. I applaud Thibs for holding out on a deal and asking for the moon because quite frankly, MIA is trying to deal crap for quality and cap relief. It's time for Jimmy to own up to his contract, build up his trade value even further and then see what's available at the trade deadline.

Correct, if viewing Butler as a top 10-15 player, all NBA player etc, theres no reason to even be talking to Miami considering what they can offer. But unfortunately we painted ourselves into a corner and took on a guy who would be expiring, who had injury problems, who didnt fit age wise with our core, who had locker room problems with his previous team, and who we believed to be tied to our HC (not a good thing if you might want to can the coach). Add on demanding a trade and the general **** here and its obvious were just going to lose value on the deal. Any deal Miami can offer is ****, but we made our bed and have to eat **** now.

[Slim Tubby]

Here we are holding out hope that Richardson is the centerpiece to any deal with MIA and yet I have to ask myself, how in the hell is he the centerpiece to any deal that's sending out a Top 10-15 player??? MIA has spent all this time trying to claim how valuable he is in their effort to build value but at the end of the day, I have no idea why we are even talking to them outside of Butler's group naming them as a preferred destination.

I mean, take a look at their roster and the **** contracts attached to them. I can't think of another team in the NBA that has that many bad deals with a roster full of marginal talent. I applaud Thibs for holding out on a deal and asking for the moon because quite frankly, MIA is trying to deal crap for quality and cap relief. It's time for Jimmy to own up to his contract, build up his trade value even further and then see what's available at the trade deadline.

Correct, if viewing Butler as a top 10-15 player, all NBA player etc, theres no reason to even be talking to Miami considering what they can offer. But unfortunately we painted ourselves into a corner and took on a guy who would be expiring, who had injury problems, who didnt fit age wise with our core, who had locker room problems with his previous team, and who we believed to be tied to our HC (not a good thing if you might want to can the coach). Add on demanding a trade and the general **** here and its obvious were just going to lose value on the deal. Any deal Miami can offer is ****, but we made our bed and have to eat **** now.

I agree with most of what you're saying but having worked in Finance for 20 years and negotiating for a living, if you're trying deal from a point of weakness, there is no deal to be made. It's really that simple IMO. I've walked away from many lucrative deals for my clients because the value of what was coming back didn't match the cost/value/risk of what was being compromised. Some of the best deals I've ever made were deals I didn't make. Just my two cents...