Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[KillMonger]

jarell martin sucks

[Optimus_Steel]

So as you know I'm officially an insider and have broke several ground breaking Magic related news (Briscoe signing/Isaac starting at SF) the list goes on and I'm highly regarded around these parts

No but seriously the same person who gave me all that info (NBA ref for whoever is new around these parts) just told me some interesting things, this time it isn't the most positive news...

A few cliffnotes on our conversation..

- Magic look TERRIBLE in practice (so bad that Clifford stopped practice and sent the refs home and blatantly told the team "you guys are wasting everyone's fking time)"

- It looks like Fournier & Gordon are going backwards in regards to improvement/development

- Clifford told another colleague that Bamba looked lost on offense and defense and all he wants to do is shoot 3's

Apparently Clifford wasn't having any of it and busting everyone's a$$ at practice

As always take everything with a grain a salt and this is obviously from one persons POV and it's still preseason so just something to talk about. Discuss!

That's the funniest thing I've ever read

That sounds the Magic I know.


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[PennytoShaq]

Aside from Bamba, Gordon, and Isaac, our roster is composed of expendable pieces from other rosters that we have collectively grown unusually attached to. The difference between the five or so extra wins that they hypothetically provide has almost certainly been more of a detriment to our rebuild due to the damage it has done to our draft position.

We aren't privy to the vast majority of the goings on behind closed doors, but we do know that John Gabriel managed to purge a roster full of veterans in the span of about a week and reconstruct a roster within the span of about a year.

I'm trying to be patient with this front office, but it's difficult to construe their "evaluation" period or lack of activity on the trade front as anything other than a lack of clear direction. Not spending money in free agency and making lottery picks is the very minimum that they could've done up to this point.

John Gabriel era was worlds away. Teams just can’t purge rosters like that very often anymore.

I don’t think grabbing two legit lotto picks and navigating the cap well is the very minimum at all. In fact, that is something many teams blow right away. I keep reading people saying how Trae Young is already a bust. That could be extremely damaging for the Hawks if so. They passed on Doncic and Bamba for him. And this is a guy from the GSW family, who people here hold as the gold standard of modern basketball. He is a guy who prioritized shooting in his draft (which many wanted the Magic to do)and it looks like it may have backfired completely.

To say what Weltman has done is a bit underwhelming is fair. To say it is the “very minimum” is simply wrong. I will take two strong lotto picks and fixing our cap as a solid first step in turning things around here.

You're delving into the subjectivity of forecasting career outcomes to justify our draft picks. That's all fine, but it doesn't translate as action. Moving up to draft Doncic or dealing the picks for an established player would constitute more activity; right or wrong. And while you can be perfectly happy with the players we have chosen, we have precious little evidence to work with that we didn't already have before the draft took place. It's way too early to start throwing out the bust label for anyone in this draft. It's also worth noting that pretty much everyone had us taking Young if he was still on the board, so it might very well be that circumstance resulted in our drafting of Bamba as opposed to preference.

Our front office has done nothing to rectify our cap situation aside from sitting on their hands. You are rationalizing inactivity as progress. Again, that's fine, but there is no evidence of a master plan here. Anyone can do nothing. I'm not actually trying to criticize them here. It's very possible that their best efforts would do more harm than doing nothing, though that wouldn't really be a ringing endorsement. I think we can safely say that this front office is well within the confines of the metaphorical box and that they lack either the courage or conviction to hasten the transformation of this roster.

Its unrealistic and unfair to assume we had a shot at trading for Doncic. Btw thats the guy i wanted. And weltman as we know went to Europe and scouted him multiple times.

But if you think we did i can understand the frustration. It just most likely isnt the real case.

[fendilim]

So as you know I'm officially an insider and have broke several ground breaking Magic related news (Briscoe signing/Isaac starting at SF) the list goes on and I'm highly regarded around these parts

No but seriously the same person who gave me all that info (NBA ref for whoever is new around these parts) just told me some interesting things, this time it isn't the most positive news...

A few cliffnotes on our conversation..

- Magic look TERRIBLE in practice (so bad that Clifford stopped practice and sent the refs home and blatantly told the team "you guys are wasting everyone's fking time)"

- It looks like Fournier & Gordon are going backwards in regards to improvement/development

- Clifford told another colleague that Bamba looked lost on offense and defense and all he wants to do is shoot 3's

Apparently Clifford wasn't having any of it and busting everyone's a$$ at practice

As always take everything with a grain a salt and this is obviously from one persons POV and it's still preseason so just something to talk about. Discuss!

Thanks man.

This is how you can appreciate the hiring of an oldschool coach like clifford and skiles. They are cleaning the bad habits of our players.

[pepe1991]

So as you know I'm officially an insider and have broke several ground breaking Magic related news (Briscoe signing/Isaac starting at SF) the list goes on and I'm highly regarded around these parts

No but seriously the same person who gave me all that info (NBA ref for whoever is new around these parts) just told me some interesting things, this time it isn't the most positive news...

A few cliffnotes on our conversation..

- Magic look TERRIBLE in practice (so bad that Clifford stopped practice and sent the refs home and blatantly told the team "you guys are wasting everyone's fking time)"

- It looks like Fournier & Gordon are going backwards in regards to improvement/development

- Clifford told another colleague that Bamba looked lost on offense and defense and all he wants to do is shoot 3's

Apparently Clifford wasn't having any of it and busting everyone's a$$ at practice

As always take everything with a grain a salt and this is obviously from one persons POV and it's still preseason so just something to talk about. Discuss!

Thanks man.

This is how you can appreciate the hiring of an oldschool coach like clifford and skiles. They are cleaning the bad habits of our players.

Culture of paying big money for sore losers that don't get better or move needle despite playing for a team for 5+ years.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

[yoyojw17]

So as you know I'm officially an insider and have broke several ground breaking Magic related news (Briscoe signing/Isaac starting at SF) the list goes on and I'm highly regarded around these parts

No but seriously the same person who gave me all that info (NBA ref for whoever is new around these parts) just told me some interesting things, this time it isn't the most positive news...

A few cliffnotes on our conversation..

- Magic look TERRIBLE in practice (so bad that Clifford stopped practice and sent the refs home and blatantly told the team "you guys are wasting everyone's fking time)"

- It looks like Fournier & Gordon are going backwards in regards to improvement/development

- Clifford told another colleague that Bamba looked lost on offense and defense and all he wants to do is shoot 3's

Apparently Clifford wasn't having any of it and busting everyone's a$$ at practice

As always take everything with a grain a salt and this is obviously from one persons POV and it's still preseason so just something to talk about. Discuss!

Thanks man.

This is how you can appreciate the hiring of an oldschool coach like clifford and skiles. They are cleaning the bad habits of our players.

Beat that ish out of them! Yup... can see why they made the hire. Hope he breaks them before they break him. lol

[Blue_and_Whte]

I totally believe that story because there's nothing negative about Vuc in there. He's Clifford's favorite player.

And hes not the first one. So Lets see professional NBA head coaches vs emotional arm chair coaches

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[Mauro Pedrosa]

Things that should be happening this season:

- Making Gordon the #1 option on offense. You can't expect him to become great if he doesn't get the reps. He needs to be unleashed like Oladipo was in Indiana.

- Seeing Isaac, Gordon & Bamba on the court at the same time.

--

I'm not optimistic about either of those. Coach Clifford hasn't inspired any confidence

[PrimeThyme]

Things that should be happening this season:

- Making Gordon the #1 option on offense. You can't expect him to become great if he doesn't get the reps. He needs to be unleashed like Oladipo was in Indiana.

- Seeing Isaac, Gordon & Bamba on the court at the same time.

--

I'm not optimistic about either or of those. Coach Clifford hasn't inspired any confidence

Unfortunately, while I think those things should happen, they could just as easily be in the "things that won't happen" category this season. Pretty clear to me that Vuc is going to be the number 1 option on offense and that Bamba is primarily going to be playing his minutes with that bench group this year.

[fendilim]

Things that should be happening this season:

- Making Gordon the #1 option on offense. You can't expect him to become great if he doesn't get the reps. He needs to be unleashed like Oladipo was in Indiana.

- Seeing Isaac, Gordon & Bamba on the court at the same time.

--

I'm not optimistic about either or of those. Coach Clifford hasn't inspired any confidence

[pepe1991]

It's going to be long season guys, hard to get exited about anything.

[PrimeThyme]

It's going to be long season guys, hard to get exited about anything.

I’ve never struggled harder to find one thing to get excited about. I try to get excited about AG but then I think about how Vuc will be the number one option and he will be at the mercy of Vuc and Evan buddy ball all season. Then I try to get excited about Isaac but think about how he already has another ankle injury and how his ankles again this year will be a major concern. Then I try to get excited about Bamba but think about how all his minutes will be coming with Simmons and Grant out there and realize how hard it will be for him to consistently get involved on offense with those tunnel vision ball hogs dominating the offense.

This is seriously one of the first times I have almost zero desire to watch. I mean I know it’s not managements job to cater to the fans but keeping this same starting lineup and same vets for a third straight year feels like such a slap in the face to the fan base. I can’t really see myself being as active on these boards this season, i just don’t have the excitement/desire/willpower to watch another season of this.

[PennytoShaq]

Things that should be happening this season:

- Making Gordon the #1 option on offense. You can't expect him to become great if he doesn't get the reps. He needs to be unleashed like Oladipo was in Indiana.

- Seeing Isaac, Gordon & Bamba on the court at the same time.

--

I'm not optimistic about either of those. Coach Clifford hasn't inspired any confidence

Really? Clifford is playing Bamba a lot of minutes. He is out there with AG already. JI has been held out of games, or I would think he is getting minutes too.

All 3 of those guys are going to get minutes. They will play together. That is one of the least of my concerns about this team.

As for making AG the #1 option on offense - thats not really his thing. A #1 option gets ISO’s called for them and the ball at the end of the game. Do you really want to see AG doing 400 crossover dribbles in the span of 2 seconds before bricking a jumper?

[VFX]

It's going to be long season guys, hard to get exited about anything.

I’ve never struggled harder to find one thing to get excited about. I try to get excited about AG but then I think about how Vuc will be the number one option and he will be at the mercy of Vuc and Evan buddy ball all season. Then I try to get excited about Isaac but think about how he already has another ankle injury and how his ankles again this year will be a major concern. Then I try to get excited about Bamba but think about how all his minutes will be coming with Simmons and Grant out there and realize how hard it will be for him to consistently get involved on offense with those tunnel vision ball hogs dominating the offense.

This is seriously one of the first times I have almost zero desire to watch. I mean I know it’s not managements job to cater to the fans but keeping this same starting lineup and same vets for a third straight year feels like such a slap in the face to the fan base. I can’t really see myself being as active on these boards this season, i just don’t have the excitement/desire/willpower to watch another season of this.

Can’t say I blame you or any fan to not watch. As long as Vuc is on the roster and this team lacks a starting caliber point guard, nothing will change.

[OrlChamps2030]

Things that should be happening this season:

- Making Gordon the #1 option on offense. You can't expect him to become great if he doesn't get the reps. He needs to be unleashed like Oladipo was in Indiana.

- Seeing Isaac, Gordon & Bamba on the court at the same time.

--

I'm not optimistic about either of those. Coach Clifford hasn't inspired any confidence

You’re a fan of the Orlando magic, you know what you should really expect, don’t do this to yourself

[pepe1991]

It's not even Vučević or any player.
Team simply lacks:
- talent
- SF, PG, backup PF
- shooting
- direction and clear plan how to be contender any time soon
- star to be attracted to
- flow of offense to be entertaining to casual fan
- high character, charismatic individuals that are fun to watch and listen off and on the court. ( guys like Jalen Rose, Petrovic, Derek and Ron Harper - players that do right things to help team win )
- team chemistry , i don't think there was any point in 7 years rebuild where team looked like they want to play for each other
- effort. Despite drafting allegedly high character guys, apart from Oladipo, all of them accept Ls easly and give up after few months


I could care less about half of this,especially things like entertaining style for casuals, but when you combine constant losing,but not to be bad enough to win lottery, constant stalling of " masterplan" that turns to be sitting on hands doing nothing and poor product year after year it's no suprise why guys like Bill Simmons list Magic as top 3 worst runned teams of decade and it's no suprise why on horrific East Magic still have longest playoff drought.

[fendilim]

Things that should be happening this season:

- Making Gordon the #1 option on offense. You can't expect him to become great if he doesn't get the reps. He needs to be unleashed like Oladipo was in Indiana.

- Seeing Isaac, Gordon & Bamba on the court at the same time.

--

I'm not optimistic about either of those. Coach Clifford hasn't inspired any confidence

Really? Clifford is playing Bamba a lot of minutes. He is out there with AG already. JI has been held out of games, or I would think he is getting minutes too.

All 3 of those guys are going to get minutes. They will play together. That is one of the least of my concerns about this team.

As for making AG the #1 option on offense - thats not really his thing. A #1 option gets ISO’s called for them and the ball at the end of the game. Do you really want to see AG doing 400 crossover dribbles in the span of 2 seconds before bricking a jumper?

to be a devil’s advocate, the guy may have a point about Bamba not getting minutes. Bamba played a lot of four last night, those minutes would have been given to Judas had he played, IMO.

[fendilim]

It's not even Vučević or any player.
Team simply lacks:
- talent
- SF, PG, backup PF
- shooting
- direction and clear plan how to be contender any time soon
- star to be attracted to
- flow of offense to be entertaining to casual fan
- high character, charismatic individuals that are fun to watch and listen off and on the court. ( guys like Jalen Rose, Petrovic, Derek and Ron Harper - players that do right things to help team win )
- team chemistry , i don't think there was any point in 7 years rebuild where team looked like they want to play for each other
- effort. Despite drafting allegedly high character guys, apart from Oladipo, all of them accept Ls easly and give up after few months


I could care less about half of this,especially things like entertaining style for casuals, but when you combine constant losing,but not to be bad enough to win lottery, constant stalling of " masterplan" that turns to be sitting on hands doing nothing and poor product year after year it's no suprise why guys like Bill Simmons list Magic as top 3 worst runned teams of decade and it's no suprise why on horrific East Magic still have longest playoff drought.

What i never understood is why in our 7 years of re-build, Under 2 different Management, we never went to acquire good shooters. I’m not questionning the lack of scorers, but just shooters.
Weve been acquiring good locker rooms guys instead.

And the Draft profile of each management:
Hennigan regime - high motor athletes with no real basketball skill.

WeHam - athletic lengthy players who are just ok shooters.

Looking at teams like the Suns or the Nets, they are so far ahead of us because they had acquired good shooters that they can use as building blocks, all they need know is someone to build around. And the Suns seem to have that with Booker and Ayton. The Nets may have that piece after free agency next year.

Thats why our team look soooo bad. Bad offensive plays can be really frustrating and that causes a lot of bad energy on defense. Just think about it, when we had plethora of offensive options Vic-Tobias-Vuc-Evan, i think we had a run of two years for that team, our point differential isnt as bad as it is now. And we play with a lot of energy on defense. But now, we only have two “reliable” offensive players in Vuc and Evan, our defense has gone down and the energy has been really bad since.

[trebone]

It's going to be long season guys, hard to get exited about anything.

I’ve never struggled harder to find one thing to get excited about. I try to get excited about AG but then I think about how Vuc will be the number one option and he will be at the mercy of Vuc and Evan buddy ball all season. Then I try to get excited about Isaac but think about how he already has another ankle injury and how his ankles again this year will be a major concern. Then I try to get excited about Bamba but think about how all his minutes will be coming with Simmons and Grant out there and realize how hard it will be for him to consistently get involved on offense with those tunnel vision ball hogs dominating the offense.

This is seriously one of the first times I have almost zero desire to watch. I mean I know it’s not managements job to cater to the fans but keeping this same starting lineup and same vets for a third straight year feels like such a slap in the face to the fan base. I can’t really see myself being as active on these boards this season, i just don’t have the excitement/desire/willpower to watch another season of this.

Im right there with you, will be hard pressed to watch many of the games this year