Josh Jackson - Fit for the team?

Wilber85 · Post #1 » by **Wilber85** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:19 pm

Do you think Josh Jackson is a good fit for this Suns team? Right now I feel like he has the most value, and the 3 spot is in good hands with Bridges, and TJ Warren.

I like Josh Jackson but with no shot, and average defense (Really all he can do is pass and rebound subpar) I don't think he is a good fit.

He has a lot of value right now due to potential and age. Are you willing to send him away for a PG? What would his value be worth to you?

darealjuice · Post #2 » by **darealjuice** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:24 pm

Is this not what is discussed in the Trade/FA thread literally every single day lol

Wilber85 · Post #3 » by **Wilber85** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:26 pm

darealjuice wrote:Is this not what is discussed in the Trade/FA thread literally every single day lol

Well if its discussed everyday then why isn't there a topic of its own? Get that out of the trade thread.

Book1Nation · Post #4 » by **Book1Nation** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:33 pm

He fits if he can turn into an elite defender.

If all he is is an average defender and awful shooter like he is right now, he doesn’t fit on any team in the NBA.

Hypothetically he could be a wing version of Draymond Green as a + defender and +passer and that would work out very well as long as you can get a good shooter at PG and PF.

darealjuice · Post #5 » by **darealjuice** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:39 pm

Lol this place is bordering on Stephen A. Smith level hot takes when it comes to Jackson. 1 year into the league after averaging 18/6/2.5 after the ASB with the worst coaching in the league, yet he half this board is already screaming bust because he's shot poorly in preseason.

jcsunsfan · Post #6 » by **jcsunsfan** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 5:46 pm

Jackson, Warren, Ariza, Bridges

You can keep three of the four. Who do you keep and who do you move?

Ariza is signed for one year only anyway. But he is the vet leader.
Bridges has huge two-way upside. He is a true 3 and D big.
Warren is a mid-range phenom. His outside shot is improving. He provides much needed instant offense.
Jackson has the most potential of all of these with his athleticism. But his skill set needs great improvement.

I might move Warren because he would garner more return. I would think about Jackson. I would keep Bridges unless they are now seeing that he is not what they thought he was.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #7 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 6:02 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:Jackson, Warren, Ariza, Bridges

You can keep three of the four. Who do you keep and who do you move?

Ariza is signed for one year only anyway. But he is the vet leader.
Bridges has huge two-way upside. He is a true 3 and D big.
Warren is a mid-range phenom. His outside shot is improving. He provides much needed instant offense.
Jackson has the most potential of all of these with his athleticism. But his skill set needs great improvement.

I might move Warren because he would garner more return. I would think about Jackson. I would keep Bridges unless they are now seeing that he is not what they thought he was.

We've held onto Warren for so long, I'm eager to see the payoff of a fully-blossomed NBA player. He looks great right now. I wouldn't think of moving him. If he's a 6MOY candidate, that's big.

Jackson's the question. What gives with this guy? Why does he keep taking shots and making passes that don't connect? Shouldn't he know what works and doesn't work by now? TJ does. He takes shots he can make and doesn't turn the ball over, so if he's not a positive on any given night, at least he won't be some huge negative. JJ forces things - a lot. He needs to find his f'ing spots.

Scutt · Post #8 » by **Scutt** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 6:16 pm

Wilber85 wrote:Do you think Josh Jackson is a good fit for this Suns team? Right now I feel like he has the most value, and the 3 spot is in good hands with Bridges, and TJ Warren.

I like Josh Jackson but with no shot, and average defense (Really all he can do is pass and rebound subpar) I don't think he is a good fit.

He has a lot of value right now due to potential and age. Are you willing to send him away for a PG? What would his value be worth to you?

Bridges has not played a single game in the NBA yet. You could have made that exact same statement, only with Josh Jackson's name a year ago. What happens when Bridges actually plays and his game has some warts or he is not as ready as you think?

The only power forwards on this team are Ryan Anderson and Dragon Bender. Ariza and even Warren should easily be able to get minutes there and Jackson and Bridges should be able to get minutes at the backup sg spot, so I don't see an issue with our wings. We just need a starting caliber point guard. It is fascinating how fast fans just seemed to have turned on Jackson. The way he played the 2nd half of last year, combined with an already budding on court chemistry with Ayton, and I couldn't be more excited. I am certainly not writing him off because of a few summer league and preseason games.

Waylay13 · Post #9 » by **Waylay13** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 6:46 pm

Jackson is the best fit at small forward after Ariza. He is a better 3pt shooter, defender and passer then Warren. I would trade Warren much quicker then I would anyone else but since we can count on Ariza not being here next year we can keep Jackson, Bridges and Warren.

Sunsfan76 · Post #10 » by **Sunsfan76** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 7:11 pm

Right now, I would trade Jackson for the right player, but I still have a very high value on him. I would not part with him for say Rozier, it would have to be for somebody like Lillard.

I was gung ho on trading Warren at the beginning of the offseason, but now not so much. If he actually can develop a three point shot, he can be a valuable 6th man.

Bridges can be our long term Ariza, so I don't want to trade him either.

Honestly, I would like a few months more of watching Jackson and Warren to decide which should go.

bigfoot · Post #11 » by **bigfoot** » Tue Oct 9, 2018 7:25 pm

Very simple ... Josh Jackson's fit for this team and most others is very restricted

1) His skill of passing/playmaking can be diminished by sagging off and forcing him to shoot. This will be exposed during the regular season. Teams will go under Ayton screens and leave Josh wide open. No more easy lobs/passes for JJ because they just won't be available.

2) His ability to drive to the bucket is minimized because he is a poor free throw shooter, often gets his shot blocked, or often turns it over by driving into double teams.

3) While his individual defense might be acceptable, his team defense is unproven. He is by no means a defensive specialist. He's definitely not in the same class as Marcus Smart.

Right now his best fit for the team is off the bench, probably playing behind Booker, while Warren should get most of the backup SF and PF minutes. JJ needs to hone his craft against lesser players instead of starting caliber NBA players. In 14-16 minutes of playing time behind Booker, Jackson should be able to carve out a niche for himself as a defensive specialist and a backup playmaker for Okobo or Melton.

If JJ can develop a legitimate shot then he can earn starter minutes and will probably be an all-star. If his free throw and shooting percentage don't improve his ceiling will be Marcus Smart but his floor will be Archie Goodwin.

King4Day · Post #12 » by **King4Day** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:29 pm

The only way I'm dealing Jackson is if Kemba or Butler are coming back with long term commitment

Saberestar · Post #13 » by **Saberestar** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:45 pm

When is the deadline to guarantee his contract for the next year?

Post #14 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:08 pm

Saberestar wrote:When is the deadline to guarantee his contract for the next year?

Probably the same as any other rookie contract 3rd or 4th year guys. Mid to late October.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #15 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:48 pm

To me the biggest test and what Jackson really needs to do is learn how to be a positive impact guy without being the 'main' guy. This is a hard thing for some young guys who have always been the best player on their team. I don't think it was any accident he played his best ball last year after Booker got hurt and he was really their only option. The problem with that is unless he gets WAY better he's not good enough to be the number 1 option for a team that wins games. He has some skills that would lead you to believe he can do it but he just needs to put it all together. Part of that is slowing down and not feeling like he needs to make something happen every time he gets the ball; again this is sometimes hard for young players.

Not to beat a dead horse but this is part of the reason I preferred Isaac to Jackson last year. His game is much better suited to be a supporting player. If he stays healthy I have little doubt that Isaac makes it while Jackson is way more boom or bust. He's the type that thrives on doing the little things that you need. I think Bridges is kind of like that from this years class.

Post #16 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:30 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:To me the biggest test and what Jackson really needs to do is learn how to be a positive impact guy without being the 'main' guy. This is a hard thing for some young guys who have always been the best player on their team. I don't think it was any accident he played his best ball last year after Booker got hurt and he was really their only option. The problem with that is unless he gets WAY better he's not good enough to be the number 1 option for a team that wins games. He has some skills that would lead you to believe he can do it but he just needs to put it all together. Part of that is slowing down and not feeling like he needs to make something happen every time he gets the ball; again this is sometimes hard for young players.

Not to beat a dead horse but this is part of the reason I preferred Isaac to Jackson last year. His game is much better suited to be a supporting player. If he stays healthy I have little doubt that Isaac makes it while Jackson is way more boom or bust. He's the type that thrives on doing the little things that you need. I think Bridges is kind of like that from this years class.

Yeah, I agree with all that and liked Isaac too. I was high on Jackson and am rarely high on people who cannot shoot, so it's been disappointing in that respect. It's difficult to really say what kind of player he really projects to be at his best.

A player like Winslow was really bad but last year shot 38% from 3 and was a really solid defender. But Jackson is more dynamic..like I've said, he reminds me a lot of SF Westbrook...and Westbrook turns it over a lot, but usually doubles that or more in assists. But he'd also always take it to the rim and get to the line a lot and shoot 80% + from the line until the rule change last year that hurt him a bit at the line. But Westbrook also shoots way too many 3s for how good he has at it (though the year of his highest volume, was the best he shot which was still only a tad over 34%).

You'd think his ceiling might be a Jimmy Butler type but Butler is really the main guy and is a really solid defender and is actually very good at not turning over the ball much while averaging about 5apg. He's a bit more methodical offensively.

I don't really like the Marion comp though maybe that kind of role would be a good one...though I am not sure their skills are similar.

Iggy might be the best comp, but Iggy was probably a little better playmaker and a lot better defender. But it might be the type of player who can be a little more dynamic and block a few more shots. I think he might make sense as a sixth man unless he starts with 4 knock down shooters or gets to where he can shoot 35% from 3.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #17 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:14 am

Jackson is a hard guy to find a perfect comp. Maybe spreewell if he hits his ceiling of potential.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Post #18 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:48 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Jackson is a hard guy to find a perfect comp. Maybe spreewell if he hits his ceiling of potential.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Oh yeah, that's a good one.

bigfoot · Post #19 » by **bigfoot** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:18 pm

One thing I find odd is the minutes averaged in preseason by Ariza (21), Anderson (17.6), Ayton (26.9) and Warren (15.3) versus Jackson (33). Personally I think Jackson was being showcased for trade bait.

Post #20 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:39 pm

bigfoot wrote:One thing I find odd is the minutes averaged in preseason by Ariza (21), Anderson (17.6), Ayton (26.9) and Warren (15.3) versus Jackson (33). Personally I think Jackson was being showcased for trade bait.

I think he's just trying to get him reps and learn the offense as he is still more in the development stage. Younger guys typically play more in the preseason. Bridges probably would have played quite a bit if he wasn't injured.