Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

Mattya · Post #1701 » by **Mattya** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:02 am

Like is there any logical reason Taylor would even consider a Butler buyout?

twix2500 · Post #1702 » by **twix2500** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:03 am

Mattya wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
And why on earth would Jimmy or Taylor want a buyout. Jimmy is going to sacrifice even more money at that point since he would lose bird rights? I’m going to need some serious alcohol to buy into that theory.
Players do buyouts because they recoup the money they gave up when they sign with another team.

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Right depending on how much of a buyout they received. Why in the world would Taylor agree to a buyout without a SIGNIFICANT sacrifice from Butler?

If you are out of the playoff race at the trade deadline what would be the point of keeping him. Let's say he gives up 5 mill. That's 5 mill out of Taylor pocket and lowers your cap.

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Loyal[]Wolf · Post #1703 » by **Loyal[]Wolf** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:09 am

I know the West is crazy, but there's no way we'd be out of playoff scenaro by trade deadline with Butler.

Mattya · Post #1704 » by **Mattya** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:10 am

twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Players do buyouts because they recoup the money they gave up when they sign with another team.

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Right depending on how much of a buyout they received. Why in the world would Taylor agree to a buyout without a SIGNIFICANT sacrifice from Butler?
If you are out of the playoff race at the trade deadline what would be the point of keeping him. Let's say he gives up 5 mill. That's 5 mill out of Taylor pocket and lowers your cap.

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You think Taylor is going to get even more embarrassed by Butler for 5 million? It would be unheard of to even let a player go for free. I’m just going to leave this alone. I respect that you have been respectful here, but this is just too outlandish to debate further,

Nick K · Post #1705 » by **Nick K** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:16 am

Mattya wrote:Like is there any logical reason Taylor would even consider a Butler buyout?

Why would you buy out a guy if you can get something decent for him. There is zero chance of a buyout.

twix2500 · Post #1706 » by **twix2500** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:20 am

Mattya wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Right depending on how much of a buyout they received. Why in the world would Taylor agree to a buyout without a SIGNIFICANT sacrifice from Butler?
If you are out of the playoff race at the trade deadline what would be the point of keeping him. Let's say he gives up 5 mill. That's 5 mill out of Taylor pocket and lowers your cap.

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You think Taylor is going to get even more embarrassed by Butler for 5 million? It would be unheard of to even let a player go for free. I’m just going to leave this alone. I respect that you have been respectful here, but this is just too outlandish to debate further,

Did you say unheard of lol. Bro it happens all the time.

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twix2500 · Post #1707 » by **twix2500** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:21 am

Nick K wrote:
Mattya wrote:Like is there any logical reason Taylor would even consider a Butler buyout?

Why would you buy out a guy if you can get something decent for him. There is zero chance of a buyout.

No one wants to give up anything decent. If he leaks he seeking a buyout, Every team is gonna offer zero, and prepare to try to sign him for the remainder of the season. Playoff teams gonna offer him the MLE and get him playoff money

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Mattya · Post #1708 » by **Mattya** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:24 am

Nick K wrote:
Mattya wrote:Like is there any logical reason Taylor would even consider a Butler buyout?

Why would you buy out a guy if you can get something decent for him. There is zero chance of a buyout.

Even if they kept him past the trade deadline, why would you help Butler go somewhere for practically nothing after he made his trade request a week before training camp, goes public, and has been leaking to the reporters nearly everyday making the Wolves look unprofessional, unorganized, a mess, whatever else ESPN has been saying. Image is very important for Taylor. Jimmy has been doing anything in his power to embarrass Taylor’s team. You think he is going to do Jimmy favors now? Nah.

Mattya · Post #1709 » by **Mattya** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:25 am

twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
twix2500 wrote:If you are out of the playoff race at the trade deadline what would be the point of keeping him. Let's say he gives up 5 mill. That's 5 mill out of Taylor pocket and lowers your cap.

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You think Taylor is going to get even more embarrassed by Butler for 5 million? It would be unheard of to even let a player go for free. I’m just going to leave this alone. I respect that you have been respectful here, but this is just too outlandish to debate further,
Did you say unheard of lol. Bro it happens all the time.

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Yea all stars seeking buyouts happens alllll the time.

SO_MONEY · Post #1710 » by **SO_MONEY** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:26 am

Butler is not going to be a buyout candidate. MN is not going to do him any favors.

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Mattya · Post #1711 » by **Mattya** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:27 am

And now the theory is Butler is going to sabotage the Wolves by saying he is seeking a buyout before the trade deadline, but the Wolves are still going to offer him a buyout after that... happens all the time.

walk with me · Post #1712 » by **walk with me** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:36 am

Lmao why would the wolves buyout jimmy? Who suggested that? It doesn’t even make sense. You buyout guys who have multiple years left on their deal. Not someone who will walk in like 4 months.

Mattya · Post #1713 » by **Mattya** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:47 am

walk with me wrote:Lmao why would the wolves buyout jimmy? Who suggested that? It doesn’t even make sense. You buyout guys who have multiple years left on their deal. Not someone who will walk in like 4 months.

Players get bought out all the time with expiring contracts, but they aren’t all stars who have been acting the way Butler has. This just seems like the result of a the steps of grief. Reasoning on how it’s still possible Miami gets Butler all while Minnesota helps Miami and Butler screw the Wolves.

twix2500 · Post #1714 » by **twix2500** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:51 am

Mattya wrote:
walk with me wrote:Lmao why would the wolves buyout jimmy? Who suggested that? It doesn’t even make sense. You buyout guys who have multiple years left on their deal. Not someone who will walk in like 4 months.

Players get bought out all the time with expiring contracts, but they aren’t all stars who have been acting the way Butler has. This just seems like the result of a the steps of grief. Reasoning on how it’s still possible Miami gets Butler all while Minnesota helps Miami and Butler screw the Wolves.

Well I'm just warning you. Don't pull your hair if it happens.

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Mattya · Post #1715 » by **Mattya** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:00 am

twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
walk with me wrote:Lmao why would the wolves buyout jimmy? Who suggested that? It doesn’t even make sense. You buyout guys who have multiple years left on their deal. Not someone who will walk in like 4 months.

Players get bought out all the time with expiring contracts, but they aren’t all stars who have been acting the way Butler has. This just seems like the result of a the steps of grief. Reasoning on how it’s still possible Miami gets Butler all while Minnesota helps Miami and Butler screw the Wolves.
Well I'm just warning you. Don't pull your hair if it happens.

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It is possible I end up with Zazie Beetz, but these two scenarios have about the same chances of happening. Like you could show some prior incidents that ended up in an all nba player getting bought out, to back up your theory. Until then you can stop pretending like your theory isn’t completely insane.

twolves31 · Post #1716 » by **twolves31** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:04 am

twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
walk with me wrote:Lmao why would the wolves buyout jimmy? Who suggested that? It doesn’t even make sense. You buyout guys who have multiple years left on their deal. Not someone who will walk in like 4 months.

Players get bought out all the time with expiring contracts, but they aren’t all stars who have been acting the way Butler has. This just seems like the result of a the steps of grief. Reasoning on how it’s still possible Miami gets Butler all while Minnesota helps Miami and Butler screw the Wolves.
Well I'm just warning you. Don't pull your hair if it happens.

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Jimmy wants the 5 year max, Threatening a buyout will not get him there.

twix2500 · Post #1717 » by **twix2500** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:06 am

Mattya wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Players get bought out all the time with expiring contracts, but they aren’t all stars who have been acting the way Butler has. This just seems like the result of a the steps of grief. Reasoning on how it’s still possible Miami gets Butler all while Minnesota helps Miami and Butler screw the Wolves.
Well I'm just warning you. Don't pull your hair if it happens.

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It is possible I end up with Zazie Beetz, but these two scenarios have about the same chances of happening. Like you could show some prior incidents that ended up in an all nba player getting bought out, to back up your theory. Until then you can stop pretending like your theory isn’t completely insane.

What is there a rule that says an all-nba can not be bought out? You making up some unwritten rule because you don't like it. If he is willing to walk then there is nothing to lose by being bought out. And more to gain

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twix2500 · Post #1718 » by **twix2500** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:08 am

twolves31 wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
Players get bought out all the time with expiring contracts, but they aren’t all stars who have been acting the way Butler has. This just seems like the result of a the steps of grief. Reasoning on how it’s still possible Miami gets Butler all while Minnesota helps Miami and Butler screw the Wolves.
Well I'm just warning you. Don't pull your hair if it happens.

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Jimmy wants the 5 year max, Threatening a buyout will not get him there.

He don't want it from the Wolves. Lawd have mercy. You think he will take it from any team? You are smoking some good green up there.

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Mattya · Post #1719 » by **Mattya** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:17 am

twix2500 wrote:
Mattya wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Well I'm just warning you. Don't pull your hair if it happens.

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It is possible I end up with Zazie Beetz, but these two scenarios have about the same chances of happening. Like you could show some prior incidents that ended up in an all nba player getting bought out, to back up your theory. Until then you can stop pretending like your theory isn’t completely insane.
What is there a rule that says an all-nba can not be bought out? You making up some unwritten rule because you don't like it. If he is willing to walk then there is nothing to lose by being bought out. And more to gain

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Now come some fallacies to muddy the logic.

There is no rule. I never insinuated there was. There is just reality and what we can predict based on history and evidence. Your theory isn’t based on evidence, there is no history of it, but here you are warning us of something illogical telling us it can totally happen.

AmitabhaBuddha · Post #1720 » by **AmitabhaBuddha** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:22 am

I am having a tough time seeing Butler's leverage at this point. Or how he can force the issue. The fact that he is in Minnesota underscores this. He knows he will probably have to show up.

1) He holds out. Loses money and reputation. He has quashed this possibility anyway.
2) He gets season ending surgery. Teams question his health, therefore he risks getting any sort of max. Also Minnesota cant trade him at any point during the season anyway.
3) He comes in and plays like Bazz. No team would give that guy the max. I don’t see Jimmy’s personality doing this.
4) He asks for a buyout. Taylor and Thibs laugh. You don’t buyout a player who you can trade for value. “We have to agree Jimmy; we can sign and trade in the summer.”
5) He becomes a lockeroom cancer (most possible). Towns knows he is the guy for the long term (and just signed a 5 year deal), so he will just brush it off and look towards next year. So even if Jimmy leaving was part of it, he knows then its for the short tun. No one cares what Wiggins thinks until he plays up to his talent.

Its in Jimmy’s interest to improve this relationship as the season goes on if he is not traded. Minnesota can always do a sign and trade. He loses $50 million if he is a cancer and Minnesota refuses to complete a sign and trade out of spite.

Thibs never wanted to trade him because its his best shot at a winning season. No way he would get equivalent talent for the season. Problem with coach GM is the structure leads to self interested short term thinking.

His hope was that Taylor would want to preserve his reputation with players as a good owner to play for, therefore he would honor his request and trade him. But offers had to be good enough to make this reasonable. This Miami offer was not reasonable. The goal is to get assets that have equivalent present value from future possibilities, or as close as possible.

Maybe I’m wrong and the Wolves fold. Riley pays $0.30 for a dollar. But the more and more I’m thinking about this seems unlikely.

I still trade him, but just wait for some team to go .500 when they were expecting to compete. If Philly or Houston is .500 in December, lets see if offers improve… The risk is we lose Jimmy for nothing but I think that’s outweighed by the potential upside of waiting. So what? We miss out on a first rounder in the 20s and a average player. Risk is low…