Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[PennytoShaq]

Can we not acknowledge that Oladipoi was not in the same shape here that he was after he was traded and saw how guys like Westbrook take care of themselves? I think he he lost like 15 pounds. That makes a huge difference.

I’d see that dude downtown at 3am partying and scarfing pizza constantly. Is that somehow on the coaches to micromanage him and run his entire life? Reality with Oladipo, he had the talent but it took a few catalysts to wake him up and make him realize he was blowing it.

When I was 22, I stayed out until the bars closed and then overpaid for greasy pizza by the slice. Then I grew up and became a better professional. I didn't need to watch my industry's equivalent of Westbrook to go through that maturation process.

What you do for a living is not even close to pro sports. Number crunching behind a desk is not playing in the NBA, and the parameters for success are far different.

What motivates a young guy who has been in the top 1% of what he does athletically for years can not be compared to what motivates you to hand in a better TPS report.

[tiderulz]

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

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people say that because Victor himself said it.

“Going there and seeing him do that, just seeing his year overall last year definitely helped me realize that I gotta put in a lot of work to get on that level,” Oladipo said. “So, he definitely helped influence my growth both on and off the court. He was an amazing resource, especially last year, to learn from him. And I apply it to everyday life today.”

Well yeah of course Westbrook influenced him, he was traded there.

That doesnt mean wouldn't have reached his potential here nor does he say that. It just means that something else wouldve motivated him...say confidence from the team that drafted him by giving him a nice contract perhaps? He wouldve turned into the Oladipo we know now with or without playing with Westbrook imo. That was already his trajectory

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There was a terrific quote from an anonymous NBA executive from a Cleaning The Glass article by Jordan Brenner about how Russell Westbrook’s leadership during his MVP season made a massive and necessary impact on Victor Oladipo’s mindset.

“I don’t know if he would have been able to do what he’s done if he hadn’t gone to Oklahoma City and seen Westbrook work,” the anonymous executive said. “It changed his whole mindset.”

[pepe1991]

“We had the day off, but they said we could get some shots up if we wanted, so I decided to head over with [Oklahoma City teammate and Team USA hopeful] Jeff Green.

“Kobe [Bryant] was the only guy on the bus, and that spoke volumes to me — he’s the best player in the game, yet he’s always willing to come work on his game, so that kind of motivated me and Jeff,” Durant said. “He went by himself, he got a lot of shots up, and by the time he was done you could see he had gotten better over that hour. Like I said, it was a big inspiration to me and Jeff.”

So both Green and Durant watched Kobe work. Durant blows up. Green does not. And you conclude that the difference maker was watching Kobe rather than Durant and Green's individual work ethic and talent? I'm not sure you understand how variables and control groups work.

Every hard-working superstar has 11+ teammates. Almost all of those teammates don't blow up into hard-working superstars themselves. The ones who do blow up do so because of their talent and work ethic, not because of somebody else's talent and work ethic.

The Magic have been incompetent in any number of ways over the last decade, but the most consequential way has been drafting and trading for players who just weren't that talented while trading away the few who were. Stuff like development programs, coaching, teammates, and systems are mostly just noise by comparison to talent and work ethic.

Because not everybody has capabiliy to blow up to be superstar?
Oladipo had star potential, needed somebody to guide him through everyday lifestyle of superstar to become one.
Durant - same, hard work beats talent,as he said, Jeff had 10ppg rookie year and after that 2008 season broke out with 16 ppg -7 rpg ( 45%-39%) that was massive breakout, but probably didn't keep hard work after that.
When we talk about Green we have to be honest and admit that most people would not play basketball after open heart surgery. His heart stopped for full hour during surgery, most people with his illnes find out about it when it ruptures- read - their families found out when they die.

I actually 100% agree with bold part.

[OrlChamps2030]

I just think that if Oladipo was still in the Magic nowadays he wouldn't have gotten into shape and developed the work ethic that he did. He was inspired by Westbrook and I believe that only happened because he spent a year with the Thunder. We had no inspiration for him here.

I usually think like that, so I don't feel sad to see him playing that well for other franchise. But both his and Tobias Harris' deals were awful, massive setbacks, that's what makes me annoyed.

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

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Are you serious?

Oladipo played, practiced, LIVED with Westbrook during his most focused and determined season. You're telling me that playing him twice a season, and watching his game highlights are enough?

C'mon man.

Yeah I agree. No way can a player be influenced by a guy not on his team. You just can’t learn from a guy only playing against him twice a year and watching film.


Oh wait except Oladipo did just that with his mentor D Wade:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/8points9seconds.com/2018/09/25/victor-oladipo-dwyane-wade-indiana-pacers/amp/

That doesn’t fit the agenda though so let’s just act like it didn’t happen and continue to act like it’s impossible for these guys to work together during the off-season.

[OrlChamps2030]

Can we not acknowledge that Oladipoi was not in the same shape here that he was after he was traded and saw how guys like Westbrook take care of themselves? I think he he lost like 15 pounds. That makes a huge difference.

I’d see that dude downtown at 3am partying and scarfing pizza constantly. Is that somehow on the coaches to micromanage him and run his entire life? Reality with Oladipo, he had the talent but it took a few catalysts to wake him up and make him realize he was blowing it.

When I was 22, I stayed out until the bars closed and then overpaid for greasy pizza by the slice. Then I grew up and became a better professional. I didn't need to watch my industry's equivalent of Westbrook to go through that maturation process.

Yeah it’s almost like these guys mature and they learn how to become a better pro. Pretty crazy.

[VFX]

Guess which team was "drafted" dead last? This was a silly exercise by shallow fans mostly but it does continue to demonstrate how irrelevant and uninteresting the Magic are to the casual fan. It isn't that they are bad (which they are) it is also that they are boring to watch (lack of shooting and ball movement) and show no real promise for the future (wingspan is not interesting to watch). We suck, we're frustrating and boring and we are irrelevant. Orlando Magic basketball - it's PURE MAGIC!!!

The 2018-19 NBA League Pass Draft
Our experts draft all 30 NBA teams in order of League Pass watchability

Orlando Magic basketball has been this way for a while. Most bad teams are at least fun to watch because they have enough young guys to show flashes of what fans can expect in the future. There is quite frankly no point in watching Orlando until changes are made to the roster. I’ve been saying it for 3 seasons now.

Orlando isn’t fun to watch, relies on vets, has the most non-dynamic offense in the league, and doesn’t win.

[MagicStarwipe]

Can we not acknowledge that Oladipoi was not in the same shape here that he was after he was traded and saw how guys like Westbrook take care of themselves? I think he he lost like 15 pounds. That makes a huge difference.

I’d see that dude downtown at 3am partying and scarfing pizza constantly. Is that somehow on the coaches to micromanage him and run his entire life? Reality with Oladipo, he had the talent but it took a few catalysts to wake him up and make him realize he was blowing it.

Dipo was probably just eating his feelings . This has been a depressing place to play for the better part of a decade.

I think Dipo was in decent shape here other than his rookie season where he was a bit heavy. His one year in OKC he really ballooned though and got quite chunky.

[MagicStarwipe]

Guess which team was "drafted" dead last? This was a silly exercise by shallow fans mostly but it does continue to demonstrate how irrelevant and uninteresting the Magic are to the casual fan. It isn't that they are bad (which they are) it is also that they are boring to watch (lack of shooting and ball movement) and show no real promise for the future (wingspan is not interesting to watch). We suck, we're frustrating and boring and we are irrelevant. Orlando Magic basketball - it's PURE MAGIC!!!

The 2018-19 NBA League Pass Draft
Our experts draft all 30 NBA teams in order of League Pass watchability

Orlando Magic basketball has been this way for a while. Most bad teams are at least fun to watch because they have enough young guys to show flashes of what fans can expect in the future. There is quite frankly no point in watching Orlando until changes are made to the roster. I’ve been saying it for 3 seasons now.

Orlando isn’t fun to watch, relies on vets, has the most non-dynamic offense in the league, and doesn’t win.

"Are you not entertained?"

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Defense was actually pretty good against Miami.

An 85.2 DRTG and forcing 23 turnovers is going to be more than good enough to win most nights.

[VFX]

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Are you serious?

Oladipo played, practiced, LIVED with Westbrook during his most focused and determined season. You're telling me that playing him twice a season, and watching his game highlights are enough?

C'mon man.

Yeah I agree. No way can a player be influenced by a guy not on his team. You just can’t learn from a guy only playing against him twice a year and watching film.


Oh wait except Oladipo did just that with his mentor D Wade:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/8points9seconds.com/2018/09/25/victor-oladipo-dwyane-wade-indiana-pacers/amp/

That doesn’t fit the agenda though so let’s just act like it didn’t happen and continue to act like it’s impossible for these guys to work together during the off-season.

What does any of this matter? You are playing the hypothetical game to death assuming Oladipo would be the current version of himself now. We don’t know if that’s true and never will. What makes you think Orlando (at the time) was even an environment capable of fostering his development? Move on.

[OrlChamps2030]

Are you serious?

Oladipo played, practiced, LIVED with Westbrook during his most focused and determined season. You're telling me that playing him twice a season, and watching his game highlights are enough?

C'mon man.

Yeah I agree. No way can a player be influenced by a guy not on his team. You just can’t learn from a guy only playing against him twice a year and watching film.


Oh wait except Oladipo did just that with his mentor D Wade:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/8points9seconds.com/2018/09/25/victor-oladipo-dwyane-wade-indiana-pacers/amp/

That doesn’t fit the agenda though so let’s just act like it didn’t happen and continue to act like it’s impossible for these guys to work together during the off-season.

What does any of this matter? You are playing the hypothetical game to death assuming Oladipo would be the current version of himself now. We don’t know if that’s true and never will. What makes you think Orlando (at the time) was even an environment capable of fostering his development? Move on.

Saying Oladipo wouldn’t become a star here is completely hypothetical as well.. because we never got the chance to see

[fendilim]

Yeah I agree. No way can a player be influenced by a guy not on his team. You just can’t learn from a guy only playing against him twice a year and watching film.


Oh wait except Oladipo did just that with his mentor D Wade:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/8points9seconds.com/2018/09/25/victor-oladipo-dwyane-wade-indiana-pacers/amp/

That doesn’t fit the agenda though so let’s just act like it didn’t happen and continue to act like it’s impossible for these guys to work together during the off-season.

What does any of this matter? You are playing the hypothetical game to death assuming Oladipo would be the current version of himself now. We don’t know if that’s true and never will. What makes you think Orlando (at the time) was even an environment capable of fostering his development? Move on.

Saying Oladipo wouldn’t become a star here is completely hypothetical as well.. because we never got the chance to see

True, but whats not hypothetical was him coming out saying it wouldnt have happened had he not played with Westbrook.

[VFX]

Yeah I agree. No way can a player be influenced by a guy not on his team. You just can’t learn from a guy only playing against him twice a year and watching film.


Oh wait except Oladipo did just that with his mentor D Wade:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/8points9seconds.com/2018/09/25/victor-oladipo-dwyane-wade-indiana-pacers/amp/

That doesn’t fit the agenda though so let’s just act like it didn’t happen and continue to act like it’s impossible for these guys to work together during the off-season.

What does any of this matter? You are playing the hypothetical game to death assuming Oladipo would be the current version of himself now. We don’t know if that’s true and never will. What makes you think Orlando (at the time) was even an environment capable of fostering his development? Move on.

Saying Oladipo wouldn’t become a star here is completely hypothetical as well.. because we never got the chance to see

And there is more proof that he wouldn’t considering the only data we have of him in either scenario actually exists during his rookie contract here with the team.

You have to take everything into account - situation, maturity, team fit, etc. etc. etc. it’s a conversation about nothing because there are too many variables.

Oladipo literally said it himself in regards to Westbrook’s influence.

[PennytoShaq]

And GMs in the know, and NBA Pundits. But people will still argue it here anyway. I think we have run out of things to discuss.

[BadMofoPimp]

I remember the day Dwight got traded and I mentioned that people better be ready for a 10 year rebuild then being trashed resoundly that Henny was gonna flip the team in 3-4 years into contenders.

What’s funny/sad is that if Hennigan hadn’t lost his friggin mind in 2015 going into 2016, he’d have pulled off a decent little rebuild and that’s with no lotto luck whatsoever.

The Magic right now could have a team that looks like this...

G: Payton
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Sabonis
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Plus whoever they would have drafted in the first round in 2017 and 2018. They probably wouldn’t have been bad enough to be in position to get Isaac and Bamba, but perhaps Bam Adebayo and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander?

This really isn’t even that big of a what if either. All these guys, minus Sabonis who was that year’s lotto pick, were all on the team at the same time!

If Skiles never gets hired and starts feuding with all those young guys, maybe Hennigan never loses his friggin mind and breaks up that promising young core.

Every move Hennigan made after the start of the 2015 season was just an absolute disaster.

We traded Elf for Sabonis so couldn't have both. I would rather have had Sabonis anyways!

[pepe1991]

I remember the day Dwight got traded and I mentioned that people better be ready for a 10 year rebuild then being trashed resoundly that Henny was gonna flip the team in 3-4 years into contenders.

What’s funny/sad is that if Hennigan hadn’t lost his friggin mind in 2015 going into 2016, he’d have pulled off a decent little rebuild and that’s with no lotto luck whatsoever.

The Magic right now could have a team that looks like this...

G: Payton
G: Oladipo, Fournier
F: Harris, Hezonja
F: Gordon, Sabonis
C: Vucevic, Dedmon

Plus whoever they would have drafted in the first round in 2017 and 2018. They probably wouldn’t have been bad enough to be in position to get Isaac and Bamba, but perhaps Bam Adebayo and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander?

This really isn’t even that big of a what if either. All these guys, minus Sabonis who was that year’s lotto pick, were all on the team at the same time!

If Skiles never gets hired and starts feuding with all those young guys, maybe Hennigan never loses his friggin mind and breaks up that promising young core.

Every move Hennigan made after the start of the 2015 season was just an absolute disaster.

We traded Elf for Sabonis so couldn't have both. I would rather have had Sabonis anyways!

Payton for Šarić

Both Šarić and Sabonis are better than Payton anyway...

[OrlChamps2030]

What does any of this matter? You are playing the hypothetical game to death assuming Oladipo would be the current version of himself now. We don’t know if that’s true and never will. What makes you think Orlando (at the time) was even an environment capable of fostering his development? Move on.

Saying Oladipo wouldn’t become a star here is completely hypothetical as well.. because we never got the chance to see

And there is more proof that he wouldn’t considering the only data we have of him in either scenario actually exists during his rookie contract here with the team.

You have to take everything into account - situation, maturity, team fit, etc. etc. etc. it’s a conversation about nothing because there are too many variables.

Oladipo literally said it himself in regards to Westbrook’s influence.

I agree there’s too many variables. That’s why I think it’s a cop out to solely credit Westbrook. Maybe the Orlando Tragic are to blame, not Oladipo eating pizza at 3 am on the weekends. I still haven’t been seen a quote where Oladipo solely credits Westbrook. Maybe he just never played with a good basketball player or a hard worker in the pros, Westbrook isn’t the only positive influence in this league. I’ll concede on we don’t know how he pans out on the magic, I agree with that

Let’s stop acting like it’s all on him and just admit we gave up on a talented player too early

[DiplomaticMagic]

Read on Twitter

Wow we got a new addition to our team nobody knows

[darthcheech2000]

I dont belive this for one we second. People say that to justify a terrible trade. He couldve been inspired by Westbrook without having to play on the same team and think his trajectory wouldve come to fruition here in Orlando.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Are you serious?

Oladipo played, practiced, LIVED with Westbrook during his most focused and determined season. You're telling me that playing him twice a season, and watching his game highlights are enough?

C'mon man.

Yeah I agree. No way can a player be influenced by a guy not on his team. You just can’t learn from a guy only playing against him twice a year and watching film.


Oh wait except Oladipo did just that with his mentor D Wade:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/8points9seconds.com/2018/09/25/victor-oladipo-dwyane-wade-indiana-pacers/amp/

That doesn’t fit the agenda though so let’s just act like it didn’t happen and continue to act like it’s impossible for these guys to work together during the off-season.

No agenda,

and C'mon man...

Workouts, during the summer, with a near retired Wade... remember that time Payton worked out with CP3 all summer?

There is a alternate reality out there where we kept Dipo and he became an allstar, it just wasn't ours.

[fendilim]

All we’re talking about what ifs now, no one is celebrating Isaac will be playing tonight??