Official MMA discussion thread: UFC 231 Holloway vs Ortega finally!

[j4remi]

Keerist, those videos are like watching animals at the zoo. Actually, the animals at the zoo are better behaved. Makes want to never attend an MMA match now.

Honestly, the events are a lot of fun, especially some smaller more local ones. Most of these people are taught discipline and keep it under control but you do get beer muscles and tough guys in a crowd that big and watching people scrap. But I've generally had really good experiences. Plus there's crazy good access since the combat sports community is still pretty niche. You can luck out and meet fighters that are out to support teammates or sparring partners.

[j4remi]

Right. It seems to me that, all things being equal, the next logical fights should be Khabib vs. Tony and Conor vs. Nate.

That's where I'm at too, make Conor vs Nate part of opening the 165 lbs division. Dana keeps pushing back on it like it'd be the end of the world but I think it'd actually be beneficial for EVERYONE.
Conor, Nate, Lee, RDA, Poirier, Vick, Cowboy, Chiesa....that's an 8 man tournament with nothing but intriguing match-ups. Limit it to four to speed things up and you get Nate vs Conor; Lee vs RDA...I love both.

Also, I'm not all that hype for Al vs Lee. Al's constant beefs with the UFC and randomly popping in and out for fights means his wins never build into much actual momentum.

[Clyde_Style]

Keerist, those videos are like watching animals at the zoo. Actually, the animals at the zoo are better behaved. Makes want to never attend an MMA match now.

Honestly, the events are a lot of fun, especially some smaller more local ones. Most of these people are taught discipline and keep it under control but you do get beer muscles and tough guys in a crowd that big and watching people scrap. But I've generally had really good experiences. Plus there's crazy good access since the combat sports community is still pretty niche. You can luck out and meet fighters that are out to support teammates or sparring partners.

I once followed the Mets. Even watched most Jets and Giants games. Then I completely stopped cold. It's like my sense of the spirit of the sport just vacates and then it is time to move on. Even boxing I rarely even watch anymore and I was into that sport as a kid and teen when it was in its glory days. And it was the root of my interest in MMA as a combat sport.

The only feeling I've had that could be a lifetime attachment is the Knicks, but I could see a day when I let that go too, because unlike some fans I no longer feel my interest in a sport is forever. I'm still here so obviously I'm still bleeding blue and orange.

Those melees do contaminate my feeling for MMA. It is why I pointed out that Khabib going into the crowd to war was bad. Those melees are the spillover of pent-up aggression I want no part of. I hate mobs and if that is all it took for a UFC event to turn the participants into soccer hooligans I will probably want no part of it. I've seen as bad or worse in the boxing ring so it is nothing new really.

But since the world has turned so tribal on many levels lately with awful results I don't really want to absorb the spirit of any more of that behavior in something I consume as a diversion. And I guess I'm tired of the theatrics of MMA becoming more WWE-like. I really am only interested in the craftsmanship of the sport and I really DGAF about the rest of this increasingly ridiculous circus the UFC is becoming.

[HarthorneWingo]

Right. It seems to me that, all things being equal, the next logical fights should be Khabib vs. Tony and Conor vs. Nate.

That's where I'm at too, make Conor vs Nate part of opening the 165 lbs division. Dana keeps pushing back on it like it'd be the end of the world but I think it'd actually be beneficial for EVERYONE.
Conor, Nate, Lee, RDA, Poirier, Vick, Cowboy, Chiesa....that's an 8 man tournament with nothing but intriguing match-ups. Limit it to four to speed things up and you get Nate vs Conor; Lee vs RDA...I love both.

Also, I'm not all that hype for Al vs Lee. Al's constant beefs with the UFC and randomly popping in and out for fights means his wins never build into much actual momentum.

He last longer than Conor. But I hear ya. Also, Khabib might like 165 better as well though he seems to have conquered his weight cut issues at 155.

[bringbackhoffa]

Khabib threatening the UFC if they release his training partner/"brother".

Given Khabib is no bull when it comes to statements I can see him following through on this. Interesting times ahead.

[j4remi]

Khabib threatening the UFC if they release his training partner/"brother".

Given Khabib is no bull when it comes to statements I can see him following through on this. Interesting times ahead.

The problem is that this dude blogged about it and made it out to be premeditated according to all the translations I've heard. Basically said "I said I'd do it and I did it" which is a terrible look if you're trying to blame the other guy for starting it.

Watch on YouTube

If he didn't brag about it, I think Khabib def gets his way, but since this blog is out I'm a little bit concerned. I really need Khabib vs Ferguson and if he survives that one then Khabib vs a world class wrestler which is Lee right now but may be Gregor Gillespie in the next year or two....Gillespie is NASTY.

[bringbackhoffa]

Khabib threatening the UFC if they release his training partner/"brother".

Given Khabib is no bull when it comes to statements I can see him following through on this. Interesting times ahead.

The problem is that this dude blogged about it and made it out to be premeditated according to all the translations I've heard. Basically said "I said I'd do it and I did it" which is a terrible look if you're trying to blame the other guy for starting it.

Watch on YouTube

If he didn't brag about it, I think Khabib def gets his way, but since this blog is out I'm a little bit concerned. I really need Khabib vs Ferguson and if he survives that one then Khabib vs a world class wrestler which is Lee right now but may be Gregor Gillespie in the next year or two....Gillespie is NASTY.

i think not only will Khabiib will old steadfast on his threat he will make sure no future UFC events will occur in the Russia, and any of his Eagles MMA fighters will sign with the UFC and the ones currently signed with the UFC will leave at conclusion of there contracts.

also you got to remember Ali abdelaziz is his managers and he represents over 75 mma fighers.

also Connor was bragging about the bus incident numerous times, he even stated at the press conference he would of killed khabib if he had left the bus

[j4remi]

i think not only will Khabiib will old steadfast on his threat he will make sure no future UFC events will occur in the Russia, and any of his Eagles MMA fighters will sign with the UFC and the ones currently signed with the UFC will leave at conclusion of there contracts.

It's funny because the only reasonI think he's just fine because he's been rolling with oligarchs for hella long. Kinda necessary to accomplish all that he has, but at the same time, I just wanna point out that the only reason I buy the threat is because of the shady business going on in the background.

also you got to remember Ali abdelaziz is his managers and he represents over 75 mma fighers.

Ali doesn't want that smoke. Imagine trying to get new fighters with a "boycott UFC" stance when they're the biggest brand in the game by a huge margin. There are other ways to succeed and make money in MMA, but Ali would be doing everyone else he has a disservice to try and play that game. I think he knows better.

also Connor was bragging about the bus incident numerous times, he even stated at the press conference he would of killed khabib if he had left the bus

It's not an even playing field. If Artem threw the dolly, he'd be gone right? Well this dude was the equivalent of Artem, not Khabib.

[j4remi]

I once followed the Mets. Even watched most Jets and Giants games. Then I completely stopped cold. It's like my sense of the spirit of the sport just vacates and then it is time to move on. Even boxing I rarely even watch anymore and I was into that sport as a kid and teen when it was in its glory days. And it was the root of my interest in MMA as a combat sport.

The only feeling I've had that could be a lifetime attachment is the Knicks, but I could see a day when I let that go too, because unlike some fans I no longer feel my interest in a sport is forever. I'm still here so obviously I'm still bleeding blue and orange.

Those melees do contaminate my feeling for MMA. It is why I pointed out that Khabib going into the crowd to war was bad. Those melees are the spillover of pent-up aggression I want no part of. I hate mobs and if that is all it took for a UFC event to turn the participants into soccer hooligans I will probably want no part of it. I've seen as bad or worse in the boxing ring so it is nothing new really.

But since the world has turned so tribal on many levels lately with awful results I don't really want to absorb the spirit of any more of that behavior in something I consume as a diversion. And I guess I'm tired of the theatrics of MMA becoming more WWE-like. I really am only interested in the craftsmanship of the sport and I really DGAF about the rest of this increasingly ridiculous circus the UFC is becoming.

This year has been especially bad, but I really blame the way the UFC has been promoting things this year...just all out disorganized and desperate at a time when they really coulda done more with better planning.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/10/11/17961836/ufc-wwe-mcgregor-khabib-lesnar-jones

This article keys on your thoughts. I'm way bigger a fan of Brian Ortega making sure Dillon Danis got out of a club okay after the fights, than I am the drama after the fight. I like Ben Saunders rolling with a guy that just tapped him out earlier in the night or Neil Magny going to Maia's school after losing to him. There are all these feel good stories that the UFC ain't even bothering with while they prop up the worst behavior. I can't believe how often I've had to explain "yes, Conor was wrong. No that doesn't excuse Khabib's friends for attacking Conor. Everyone can be a--holes all at once."

[Clyde_Style]

I once followed the Mets. Even watched most Jets and Giants games. Then I completely stopped cold. It's like my sense of the spirit of the sport just vacates and then it is time to move on. Even boxing I rarely even watch anymore and I was into that sport as a kid and teen when it was in its glory days. And it was the root of my interest in MMA as a combat sport.

The only feeling I've had that could be a lifetime attachment is the Knicks, but I could see a day when I let that go too, because unlike some fans I no longer feel my interest in a sport is forever. I'm still here so obviously I'm still bleeding blue and orange.

Those melees do contaminate my feeling for MMA. It is why I pointed out that Khabib going into the crowd to war was bad. Those melees are the spillover of pent-up aggression I want no part of. I hate mobs and if that is all it took for a UFC event to turn the participants into soccer hooligans I will probably want no part of it. I've seen as bad or worse in the boxing ring so it is nothing new really.

But since the world has turned so tribal on many levels lately with awful results I don't really want to absorb the spirit of any more of that behavior in something I consume as a diversion. And I guess I'm tired of the theatrics of MMA becoming more WWE-like. I really am only interested in the craftsmanship of the sport and I really DGAF about the rest of this increasingly ridiculous circus the UFC is becoming.

This year has been especially bad, but I really blame the way the UFC has been promoting things this year...just all out disorganized and desperate at a time when they really coulda done more with better planning.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/10/11/17961836/ufc-wwe-mcgregor-khabib-lesnar-jones

This article keys on your thoughts. I'm way bigger a fan of Brian Ortega making sure Dillon Danis got out of a club okay after the fights, than I am the drama after the fight. I like Ben Saunders rolling with a guy that just tapped him out earlier in the night or Neil Magny going to Maia's school after losing to him. There are all these feel good stories that the UFC ain't even bothering with while they prop up the worst behavior. I can't believe how often I've had to explain "yes, Conor was wrong. No that doesn't excuse Khabib's friends for attacking Conor. Everyone can be a--holes all at once."

That's pretty much what it feels like at this point. Sure, they run feel good pieces on the good guys, but at this point it does feel like Dana sheds crocodile tears when dollies go flying while in his mind he immediately is seeing cash registers ring.

Boxing, with its multiple associations each conferring belts from their sparring kingdoms, was born out of filth and corruption. The UFC has a chance to change that, but they may be behaving the way Don King would have if he had had a full monopoly on boxing. There are other promotions of course so it wouldn't surprise me if in 5-10 years the UFC is no longer the only standard bearer just like Facebook may lose a billion users to other platforms or activities.

Fans like me are not presently the UFC's target audience. They don't care if I bail. They are catering to the most passionate fans which can include gentlemen like yourself, but on the whole also includes tons of meatheads. You could have in ten years a whole generation of young adult MMA fans who grew up only knowing the hyped up in-your-face version of rivalries who take it to heart as their own rivalries which is how you got soccer hooligans in other parts of the world.

It is not our culture that produces this, but the medium. You put enough people into that incubator long enough and you're going to produce more mobs ready to make havoc at the events. So either the UFC wises up and starts to emphasize the sporting aspects over pre-fight beefs or it will get out of hand in the future that turns whole stadiums in brawling thunderdomes.

[j4remi]

JJ vs Gus 2 is on. I am hype for that fight. One of the best fights I've seen being run back. Gus gave JJ a hell of a time in there, being a Jones fan (albeit hard to as of late) I love seeing him pushed to be his best in the octagon. Should be a hell of a fight. And for the love of GOD please don't do something stupid before Jon

Fam, I don't know how I missed this post but hell yes to all of this. There are a handful of fights that I remember exactly where I was and what I felt watching and Jones vs Gus is one of those. I've watched it a bunch of times with a bunch of people and it's probably the most debatable fight of all my favorites (Condit/Lawler is another razor thin one). I'm ecstatic we get this one again and honestly just glad we get Gus back because dude has been gone longer than Jones with no suspension

[j4remi]

That's pretty much what it feels like at this point. Sure, they run feel good pieces on the good guys, but at this point it does feel like Dana sheds crocodile tears when dollies go flying while in his mind he immediately is seeing cash registers ring.

Boxing, with its multiple associations each conferring belts from their sparring kingdoms, was born out of filth and corruption. The UFC has a chance to change that, but they may be behaving the way Don King would have if he had had a full monopoly on boxing. There are other promotions of course so it wouldn't surprise me if in 5-10 years the UFC is no longer the only standard bearer just like Facebook may lose a billion users to other platforms or activities.

Man, I feel you 100% on this. The UFC wasn't always the king of the mountain, Japan was kinda the center of the MMA universe for a while with PRIDE. PRIDE actually had a WWE aspect that led to success which was giving fighters opportunities to have over the top walk outs. That's it though...and it was great.

Watch on YouTube

Other than that, it was pure competition. Lots of tournaments still at that point, which I think gave more to the competition aspect. Now it's prize fighting and the prize isn't necessarily based on merit any more. Everyone sees it happening, there's just no way to tell if it'll reverse course (PPV sales have been in the tank this year up until Conor and Khabib so that may help).

Fans like me are not presently the UFC's target audience. They don't care if I bail. They are catering to the most passionate fans which can include gentlemen like yourself, but on the whole also includes tons of meatheads. You could have in ten years a whole generation of young adult MMA fans who grew up only knowing the hyped up in-your-face version of rivalries who take it to heart as their own rivalries which is how you got soccer hooligans in other parts of the world.

Fam they're not even catering to me or the hardcores any more. We don't care about belts but they've shifted to having to have a title fight at every PPV. That's how you get Derrick Lewis beat to hell and Cormier with a legitimate hand injury fighting on 3 weeks notice, just 3 days after the beating Lewis took. I feel like the UFC takes fans like me for granted because they know I'm buying virtually anything they put out. Don't get me wrong, Conor vs Khabib was one everyone dug into, but not because of the drama. That's just another aspect of analysis at this point. We just wanted to see best vs best, style vs style.

I'll say this though, the brawl after that fight ruined what was an otherwise really great PPV. Waterson and Herrig was competitive and fast paced; Reyes had a great performance and OSP never let up; Lewis had the best comeback of the year and a post fight interview for the ages; Ferguson and Pettis may have had the fight of the year; and then Khabib cemented himself as the man to beat in dominant fashion...to a fanatic like me, I'm pissed off that they distracted everybody from that. We had the most eyes the UFC has ever drawn and now all anyone wants to talk about or remembers is the mess afterward.

It is not our culture that produces this, but the medium. You put enough people into that incubator long enough and you're going to produce more mobs ready to make havoc at the events. So either the UFC wises up and starts to emphasize the sporting aspects over pre-fight beefs or it will get out of hand in the future that turns whole stadiums in brawling thunderdomes.

Absolutely! I don't mind Lewis getting a title shot that he's earned (9-1 in his last 10 mostly by KO) but give him time to heal and a full camp. Let Cormier's hand heal. But Lewis gained 500,000 followers on instagram over the weekend, so this gets thrown together. I see a Conor rematch as a distinct possibility in spite of the one sided nature of the first fight and the melee afterward...because they think it'll sell the most ppv's. Even before he won, Khabib said he'd retire if he doesn't get a superfight. Tony Ferguson isn't a superfight...he's just the guy with the longest winning streak in the history of MMA's deepest division. But Nate's campaigning and Conor is talking rematch, so I'm not confident Tony Ferguson gets the shot he deserves; I feel pretty confident Ferguson wins though (I know people think I'm crazy).

[HarthorneWingo]

That's pretty much what it feels like at this point. Sure, they run feel good pieces on the good guys, but at this point it does feel like Dana sheds crocodile tears when dollies go flying while in his mind he immediately is seeing cash registers ring.

Boxing, with its multiple associations each conferring belts from their sparring kingdoms, was born out of filth and corruption. The UFC has a chance to change that, but they may be behaving the way Don King would have if he had had a full monopoly on boxing. There are other promotions of course so it wouldn't surprise me if in 5-10 years the UFC is no longer the only standard bearer just like Facebook may lose a billion users to other platforms or activities.

Man, I feel you 100% on this. The UFC wasn't always the king of the mountain, Japan was kinda the center of the MMA universe for a while with PRIDE. PRIDE actually had a WWE aspect that led to success which was giving fighters opportunities to have over the top walk outs. That's it though...and it was great.


Other than that, it was pure competition. Lots of tournaments still at that point, which I think gave more to the competition aspect. Now it's prize fighting and the prize isn't necessarily based on merit any more. Everyone sees it happening, there's just no way to tell if it'll reverse course (PPV sales have been in the tank this year up until Conor and Khabib so that may help).

Fans like me are not presently the UFC's target audience. They don't care if I bail. They are catering to the most passionate fans which can include gentlemen like yourself, but on the whole also includes tons of meatheads. You could have in ten years a whole generation of young adult MMA fans who grew up only knowing the hyped up in-your-face version of rivalries who take it to heart as their own rivalries which is how you got soccer hooligans in other parts of the world.

Fam they're not even catering to me or the hardcores any more. We don't care about belts but they've shifted to having to have a title fight at every PPV. That's how you get Derrick Lewis beat to hell and Cormier with a legitimate hand injury fighting on 3 weeks notice, just 3 days after the beating Lewis took. I feel like the UFC takes fans like me for granted because they know I'm buying virtually anything they put out. Don't get me wrong, Conor vs Khabib was one everyone dug into, but not because of the drama. That's just another aspect of analysis at this point. We just wanted to see best vs best, style vs style.

I'll say this though, the brawl after that fight ruined what was an otherwise really great PPV. Waterson and Herrig was competitive and fast paced; Reyes had a great performance and OSP never let up; Lewis had the best comeback of the year and a post fight interview for the ages; Ferguson and Pettis may have had the fight of the year; and then Khabib cemented himself as the man to beat in dominant fashion...to a fanatic like me, I'm pissed off that they distracted everybody from that. We had the most eyes the UFC has ever drawn and now all anyone wants to talk about or remembers is the mess afterward.

It is not our culture that produces this, but the medium. You put enough people into that incubator long enough and you're going to produce more mobs ready to make havoc at the events. So either the UFC wises up and starts to emphasize the sporting aspects over pre-fight beefs or it will get out of hand in the future that turns whole stadiums in brawling thunderdomes.

Absolutely! I don't mind Lewis getting a title shot that he's earned (9-1 in his last 10 mostly by KO) but give him time to heal and a full camp. Let Cormier's hand heal. But Lewis gained 500,000 followers on instagram over the weekend, so this gets thrown together. I see a Conor rematch as a distinct possibility in spite of the one sided nature of the first fight and the melee afterward...because they think it'll sell the most ppv's. Even before he won, Khabib said he'd retire if he doesn't get a superfight. Tony Ferguson isn't a superfight...he's just the guy with the longest winning streak in the history of MMA's deepest division. But Nate's campaigning and Conor is talking rematch, so I'm not confident Tony Ferguson gets the shot he deserves; I feel pretty confident Ferguson wins though (I know people think I'm crazy).

This was Dana's fault. He's in bed with Conor and his booze.

[NoStatsGuy]

Khabib threatening the UFC if they release his training partner/"brother".

Given Khabib is no bull when it comes to statements I can see him following through on this. Interesting times ahead.

Rumors had khabib saying to retire from the ufc anyway after smashing "dana's boy" i think schaub said it on one of the many podcasts cant exactly recall which and when, it was 2 or 3 weeks ago when i heared it


Edit

Found it

Watch on YouTube

[j4remi]

Rumors had khabib saying to retire from the ufc anyway after smashing "dana's boy" i think schaub said it on one of the many podcasts cant exactly recall which and when, it was 2 or 3 weeks ago when i heared it


Edit

Found it

Watch on YouTube

From tiramisu weight miss to plotting a way out with a perfect record before he faces the consensus number 2 in the division (El Cucuy), I dock his legacy big points if he manages to avoid that smoke.

[j4remi]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=318&v=6NxF3i-PkTo[/youtube]

*salutes* Most of the time Chael's hot takes annoy me, but this is some REAL talk here.

[HarthorneWingo]

Rumors had khabib saying to retire from the ufc anyway after smashing "dana's boy" i think schaub said it on one of the many podcasts cant exactly recall which and when, it was 2 or 3 weeks ago when i heared it

Edit

Found it

Watch on YouTube

From tiramisu weight miss to plotting a way out with a perfect record before he faces the consensus number 2 in the division (El Cucuy), I dock his legacy big points if he manages to avoid that smoke.

Khabib gonna smesh him too

[j4remi]

Khabib gonna smesh him too

I'll put it this way, Tony has answers for everything that worked for Khabib against Conor and the rest of his upper tier opponents. I had originally picked Khabib over Tony but the Iaquinta and Conor fights, plus looking back at his RDA performance, have me ready to put money on Ferguson.

Side note: I think I'ma throw something on Medium where I post the five guys I think have the best chance to beat Khabib (gotta get clicks while his name's hot). My picks: Ferguson, Ortega, Lee, Woodley and Gillespie (I'm really going out on a limb since it's too soon to call this but they're really similar stylistically).

[j4remi]

Watch on YouTube

My biggest problem with this fight is how much I like both guys. These guys are the types I want repping MMA. "Being a champion is way more than having a belt around your waist"

[HarthorneWingo]

Khabib gonna smesh him too

I'll put it this way, Tony has answers for everything that worked for Khabib against Conor and the rest of his upper tier opponents. I had originally picked Khabib over Tony but the Iaquinta and Conor fights, plus looking back at his RDA performance, have me ready to put money on Ferguson.

Side note: I think I'ma throw something on Medium where I post the five guys I think have the best chance to beat Khabib (gotta get clicks while his name's hot). My picks: Ferguson, Ortega, Lee, Woodley and Gillespie (I'm really going out on a limb since it's too soon to call this but they're really similar stylistically).

Do you really think that if Khabib takes Tony down near the fence that Tony has an answer for that smeshing?