Report: Pat Riley Hung Up On Tom Thibodeau When Wolves Asked For More Assets

[mplsfonz23]

There are a lot of people on this board that have the same problem Thibs has. A disgruntled player on an expiring contract is worth 50 cents on the dollar at best, but they think he is worth a huge haul. There is no universe where you get anywhere close to equal value for him and the longer you wait, the lower his value gets...

We are not talking about any disgruntled player, he's top 15 in the league and should be worth more than Dion freaking out of shape Wiaters. Josh is nice, but the FRP is protected until when?

I think Thibs is doing what best to save his arse. His career depends on this trade, or non trade.
Riley has been giving away picks since he got there, now he wants to keep one? Call his bluff, and let them figure out how to get out of that mess he's made. Good luck. I'll hang up now.

Disgruntled - angry or dissatisfied.

This is the exact sort of denial I am talking about. In what universe is Butler not angry or dissatisfied? He has expressed his dissatisfaction in the form of a trade request (which he has reaffirmed multiple times since) and his appearance at the team practice made it very clear he is angry. Open your eyes, he is the walking definition of a disgruntled player.

Thibs is trying to get the best package he can, sure. His job will be gone if he tries to hold onto Butler and he walks away for nothing. Nevermind the reputation he is earning by being so unreasonable in his expectations. How do you think negotiations will go moving forward if Thibs is looking to acquire someone and needs the other team to be reasonable with him?

Riley has no mess to clean up, he has leverage in the trade and will not give it up. They are not fighting with anyone else for Butler; Houston does not want to give up Gordon and Tucker to get him. It's not like they are in a long line trying to outbid a string of teams for his services. Thibs can hang up the phone and call bluffs if he wants, but he is playing a very dangerous game since it is his team that needs to find a trade for their disgruntled player and not the other way around...

Guess we will see. Denial, I think it's the Miami fans that think this is reasonable. Like I said, you have a cap mess for a couple of years, GL trying to field a competitive team.
I also find if funny that the press had to inform us the Pat hung up the phone. Talk about trying to pressure Thibs.

I am not arguing, but there are several Wolves fans that say keep him if demands aren't met. Geez...a 2021 protected first is asking too much. Get real. Im done.

[basketballwacko2]

Riley built a massive payroll on purpose. So he could acquire multiple stars through trade. Riley deals away every first round pick he can for proven talent. He’s trying to win championships not be the Pacers

Teams like the TWolves should tell Riley to pay up or shut up. There is no need to take his garbage and give him a star player. Waiters is no Victor Oladipo, and richardson is not that good either.

You think they should just let him walk?

I'd rather let the guy sit for the season than let him dictate to me what I do with my team and force a trade where I take some teams terrible contracts and selfish washed up players. The Miami pick is not that valuable in 2019. Waiters is not a good player and I'm not sold on Richardson being anymore than a backup.

IF they could get Tobias Harris Plus some expriring contracts and a #1 from the Clippers they'd be better off than taking a guy like Waiters.

[basketballwacko2]

Richardson and a #1 in 2019 is barely enough to take on the bad contract of Waiters. Added to that is that Richardson and Waiters play the same position. Don't tell me that Richardson is a SF because he's only 6'4'' no way he plays SF at 6'4'' except out of a lack of anyone else to play the spot.

There is no way I'd take that for Butler.

Actually Richardson is a SF and Waiters is an SG.

I'm not playing a guy who is 6'4'' at SF.

[basketballwacko2]

Getting Dwyane Wade who fell to the fifth pick in his draft, and getting LeBron to sign with his buddies will get you championships.

Leave the Pacers out of this.

I agree with your sentiment, but Wade didn't "fall" to the 5th pick that year. The top 4 was a lock on literally every mock draft and apparently with every GM.

Although Wade ended up being the 2nd best player of the 2003 draft, he was by no means the obvious pick for them at the time as you suggest. While I've never liked the Heat, you have to give credit when it's due. That was an excellent pick.

Actually you’re wrong. The order of the top 4 minus Lebron was not set in stone. Darko especially was not guaranteed to go at #2.

The only reason the Raptors took Bosh instead of Wade was because they already had Carter. Bosh and Wade were a toss up depending on the drafting team’s need at the time. If Miami had the 4th pick they would have picked Wade. Whoever got picked at #4 was a guarantee that the other would go at #5. Wade was never projected to go outside the top 5.

'

Darko! That guy soured me on Euros ever sense. Now Porzingis has helped to restore my faith in foreign players but I'm still scared to take them high.

[Abdul-McFar]

Sports radio has ranted on Timberwolves not trading Butler - but come on- this trade offer is straight up garbage. And now even if Pat Riley wants to offer something more, I doubt Thibs even picks up the phone.

This trade desire isn't just because of differences Butler has with KAT or Wiggins, I believe this has to do with Wolves not being interested in offering Butler a max contract in the future. After this fiasco what team is going to really want to pay that? I don't believe he's going to be able to pull a Leonard and still get a contract he desires.

[mplsfonz23]

Darko! That guy soured me on Euros ever sense. Now Porzingis has helped to restore my faith in foreign players but I'm still scared to take them high.

Porzingis may not get to play this year. Same old soft euro players. The few that are good can't seem to stay healthy.

[Hoopzilla]

We are not talking about any disgruntled player, he's top 15 in the league and should be worth more than Dion freaking out of shape Wiaters. Josh is nice, but the FRP is protected until when?

I think Thibs is doing what best to save his arse. His career depends on this trade, or non trade.
Riley has been giving away picks since he got there, now he wants to keep one? Call his bluff, and let them figure out how to get out of that mess he's made. Good luck. I'll hang up now.

Disgruntled - angry or dissatisfied.

This is the exact sort of denial I am talking about. In what universe is Butler not angry or dissatisfied? He has expressed his dissatisfaction in the form of a trade request (which he has reaffirmed multiple times since) and his appearance at the team practice made it very clear he is angry. Open your eyes, he is the walking definition of a disgruntled player.

Thibs is trying to get the best package he can, sure. His job will be gone if he tries to hold onto Butler and he walks away for nothing. Nevermind the reputation he is earning by being so unreasonable in his expectations. How do you think negotiations will go moving forward if Thibs is looking to acquire someone and needs the other team to be reasonable with him?

Riley has no mess to clean up, he has leverage in the trade and will not give it up. They are not fighting with anyone else for Butler; Houston does not want to give up Gordon and Tucker to get him. It's not like they are in a long line trying to outbid a string of teams for his services. Thibs can hang up the phone and call bluffs if he wants, but he is playing a very dangerous game since it is his team that needs to find a trade for their disgruntled player and not the other way around...

Guess we will see. Denial, I think it's the Miami fans that think this is reasonable. Like I said, you have a cap mess for a couple of years, GL trying to field a competitive team.
I also find if funny that the press had to inform us the Pat hung up the phone. Talk about trying to pressure Thibs.

I am not arguing, but there are several Wolves fans that say keep him if demands aren't met. Geez...a 2021 protected first is asking too much. Get real. Im done.

Denial, is in reference to your ignorance to the real life facts of the situation. That or you have no clue what disgruntled means. Take your pick...

I am not a Heat fan, I could care less if they make a deal or if they have a competitive roster, so quit making assumptions, they just make you look dumb.

I am sure a reporter called the Heat to get an update on the negotiations and they made it known that Riley hung up after Thibs agreed to a deal and then came back asking for more, because that is the most current update. It's not like the Wolves are gonna admit it...

It makes sense that you want to bow out of the conversation. I am real, you live in denial, we have differing opinions on this issue. You don't understand what 50 cents on the dollar is, just like Thibs...

You are dismissed.

[shrink]

There are a lot of people on this board that have the same problem Thibs has. A disgruntled player on an expiring contract is worth 50 cents on the dollar at best, but they think he is worth a huge haul.

But if Riley only offers 25 cents, won’t you be frustrated if someone else offers 50 cents?

Riley tried foisting Dion Waiters bad contract and not taking back Dieng. If the Heat have to wait two more years on their treadmill to nowhere, shouldn’t a little of this anger be not be at Riley for making this his final final offer?

[mplsfonz23]

Disgruntled - angry or dissatisfied.

This is the exact sort of denial I am talking about. In what universe is Butler not angry or dissatisfied? He has expressed his dissatisfaction in the form of a trade request (which he has reaffirmed multiple times since) and his appearance at the team practice made it very clear he is angry. Open your eyes, he is the walking definition of a disgruntled player.

Thibs is trying to get the best package he can, sure. His job will be gone if he tries to hold onto Butler and he walks away for nothing. Nevermind the reputation he is earning by being so unreasonable in his expectations. How do you think negotiations will go moving forward if Thibs is looking to acquire someone and needs the other team to be reasonable with him?

Riley has no mess to clean up, he has leverage in the trade and will not give it up. They are not fighting with anyone else for Butler; Houston does not want to give up Gordon and Tucker to get him. It's not like they are in a long line trying to outbid a string of teams for his services. Thibs can hang up the phone and call bluffs if he wants, but he is playing a very dangerous game since it is his team that needs to find a trade for their disgruntled player and not the other way around...

Guess we will see. Denial, I think it's the Miami fans that think this is reasonable. Like I said, you have a cap mess for a couple of years, GL trying to field a competitive team.
I also find if funny that the press had to inform us the Pat hung up the phone. Talk about trying to pressure Thibs.

I am not arguing, but there are several Wolves fans that say keep him if demands aren't met. Geez...a 2021 protected first is asking too much. Get real. Im done.

Denial, is in reference to your ignorance to the real life facts of the situation. That or you have no clue what disgruntled means. Take your pick...

I am not a Heat fan, I could care less if they make a deal or if they have a competitive roster, so quit making assumptions, they just make you look dumb.

I am sure a reporter called the Heat to get an update on the negotiations and they made it known that Riley hung up after Thibs agreed to a deal and then came back asking for more, because that is the most current update. It's not like the Wolves are gonna admit it...

It makes sense that you want to bow out of the conversation. I am real, you live in denial, we have differing opinions on this issue. You don't understand what 50 cents on the dollar is, just like Thibs...

You are dismissed.

Feel better tough guy?

Bye bye now.

[basketballwacko2]

Darko! That guy soured me on Euros ever sense. Now Porzingis has helped to restore my faith in foreign players but I'm still scared to take them high.

Porzingis may not get to play this year. Same old soft euro players. The few that are good can't seem to stay healthy.

Yeah we'll see if he's good when he comes back. The ACL should be stronger after the repair. Of course there are guys who re-injure the same ACL like Jabari Parker, but once it's fixed it's normally stronger than before so long as the Dr does it right.

[shrink]

Sports radio has ranted on Timberwolves not trading Butler - but come on- this trade offer is straight up garbage. And now even if Pat Riley wants to offer something more, I doubt Thibs even picks up the phone.

This trade desire isn't just because of differences Butler has with KAT or Wiggins, I believe this has to do with Wolves not being interested in offering Butler a max contract in the future.

I agree with your first paragraph, but the second isn’t correct.

Yes, it’s about money to Jimmy, but Glen Taylor has shown no indication he wouldn’t pay Jimmy the 5 year max at the end of the season. Remember, he’s the billionaire that paid Garnett the biggest contract ever at the time, which was so much money, that the other owners demanded that we put “Max Deal language in the CBA.”

Jimmy is frustrated to see Wiggins and Towns sign extensions that make them higher paid than he is. He turned down the max extension the CBA allows, which was to be expected because if he waits until the end of the season, the max is based on the new TV money and it’s much higher. He wanted the team to renegotiate his deal, right now. Unfortunately, the rules say that can only happen if a team is far enough under the cap to do it, so MIN would need to go from $25 mil over the cap to $30 mil under it. This is impossible at this point, and could have really only occurred if Jimmy had spoken up last year, before the team used their cap space on Jeff Teague and Taj Gibson’s 2-year deals.

[shrink]

Richardson and a #1 in 2019 is barely enough to take on the bad contract of Waiters. Added to that is that Richardson and Waiters play the same position. Don't tell me that Richardson is a SF because he's only 6'4'' no way he plays SF at 6'4'' except out of a lack of anyone else to play the spot.

There is no way I'd take that for Butler.

I agree. Let me put it another way.

The Richardson-Waiters package is locked in at $21 mil this year, $22 mil the next year, and $23.5 mil in 2020-21.

They play the same position, Wiggins is a big minute swingman, and the Wolves used their 1st this year on a SG.

Would the Wolves get $66.5 mil in production from those two players over the next three years?

Even adding a pick in the 20’s doesn’t make that an appealing package. Waiters would rarely see the floor, and his bad contract kills the deal.

[Hoopzilla]

There are a lot of people on this board that have the same problem Thibs has. A disgruntled player on an expiring contract is worth 50 cents on the dollar at best, but they think he is worth a huge haul.

But if Riley only offers 25 cents, won’t you be frustrated if someone else offers 50 cents?

Riley tried foisting Dion Waiters bad contract and not taking back Dieng. If the Heat have to wait two more years on their treadmill to nowhere, shouldn’t a little of this anger be not be at Riley for making this his final final offer?

Richardson is a young player with some upside and they get a FRP. Waiters was not foisted into the deal, he was added to match salaries, so he's a necessity to the deal. That is what Riley is currently offering. If you want Dieng in the deal, you get another crap contract to balance out the salaries. Since there are little to no other offers out there, where is the incentive for Riley to up the bid? Why would he up upbid himself?

[Hoopzilla]

Guess we will see. Denial, I think it's the Miami fans that think this is reasonable. Like I said, you have a cap mess for a couple of years, GL trying to field a competitive team.
I also find if funny that the press had to inform us the Pat hung up the phone. Talk about trying to pressure Thibs.

I am not arguing, but there are several Wolves fans that say keep him if demands aren't met. Geez...a 2021 protected first is asking too much. Get real. Im done.

Denial, is in reference to your ignorance to the real life facts of the situation. That or you have no clue what disgruntled means. Take your pick...

I am not a Heat fan, I could care less if they make a deal or if they have a competitive roster, so quit making assumptions, they just make you look dumb.

I am sure a reporter called the Heat to get an update on the negotiations and they made it known that Riley hung up after Thibs agreed to a deal and then came back asking for more, because that is the most current update. It's not like the Wolves are gonna admit it...

It makes sense that you want to bow out of the conversation. I am real, you live in denial, we have differing opinions on this issue. You don't understand what 50 cents on the dollar is, just like Thibs...

You are dismissed.

Feel better tough guy?

Bye bye now.

You said you were done and then I dismissed you. Do you not understand what it means when you say you are done?

You really know how to make yourself look stupid. You should have just quit when you only looked dumb, tough guy!

[Killboard]

I mean Pat Riley has no leverage here. You're not really going to land a star for random role players. He built a very low ceiling team.

I don’t think you understand. Butler is leaving Wolves regardless. Richardson and a pick should be enough.

Richardson and a pick doesn't match salary wise.

[madmaxmedia]

There are a lot of people on this board that have the same problem Thibs has. A disgruntled player on an expiring contract is worth 50 cents on the dollar at best, but they think he is worth a huge haul. There is no universe where you get anywhere close to equal value for him and the longer you wait, the lower his value gets...

We are not talking about any disgruntled player, he's top 15 in the league and should be worth more than Dion freaking out of shape Wiaters. Josh is nice, but the FRP is protected until when?

I think Thibs is doing what best to save his arse. His career depends on this trade, or non trade.
Riley has been giving away picks since he got there, now he wants to keep one? Call his bluff, and let them figure out how to get out of that mess he's made. Good luck. I'll hang up now.

Disgruntled - angry or dissatisfied.

This is the exact sort of denial I am talking about. In what universe is Butler not angry or dissatisfied? He has expressed his dissatisfaction in the form of a trade request (which he has reaffirmed multiple times since) and his appearance at the team practice made it very clear he is angry. Open your eyes, he is the walking definition of a disgruntled player.

I don't think he said he wasn't disgruntled, just that he is a top 15 player in the league (who happens to be disgruntled.)

I agree with your points in general though. I guess the issue is not whether he'll be traded at a discount (he will be, or won't be traded at all), but at a discount compare to what? If he's traded at 50 cents on the dollar, how many dollars is his value? I agree he is top 15, but his age and desire for a supermax are problematic factors.

I think teams want him for a one year rental and look-see at possible extension (which is worth a certain value), as opposed to trading for him and instantly committing to a max or supermax (which is worth a different value.) I know a lot of posters here don't want him at a supermax contract for their team, not sure if that matches the sentiments of different front offices. If he was 26 right now, I think the Wolves would get much closer to full value for him because a supermax is then more of a no-brainer.

[Killboard]

There are a lot of people on this board that have the same problem Thibs has. A disgruntled player on an expiring contract is worth 50 cents on the dollar at best, but they think he is worth a huge haul.

But if Riley only offers 25 cents, won’t you be frustrated if someone else offers 50 cents?

Riley tried foisting Dion Waiters bad contract and not taking back Dieng. If the Heat have to wait two more years on their treadmill to nowhere, shouldn’t a little of this anger be not be at Riley for making this his final final offer?

Richardson is a young player with some upside and they get a FRP. Waiters was not foisted into the deal, he was added to match salaries, so he's a necessity to the deal. That is what Riley is currently offering. If you want Dieng in the deal, you get another crap contract to balance out the salaries. Since there are little to no other offers out there, where is the incentive for Riley to up the bid? Why would he up upbid himself?

Waiters is a negative contract, his skillet is redundant and isn't the only player Miami could add to make the trade work.

Riley would bid against himself if he could get Jimmy in FA, but he can't.

[shrink]

There are a lot of people on this board that have the same problem Thibs has. A disgruntled player on an expiring contract is worth 50 cents on the dollar at best, but they think he is worth a huge haul.

But if Riley only offers 25 cents, won’t you be frustrated if someone else offers 50 cents?

Riley tried foisting Dion Waiters bad contract and not taking back Dieng. If the Heat have to wait two more years on their treadmill to nowhere, shouldn’t a little of this anger be not be at Riley for making this his final final offer?

Richardson is a young player with some upside and they get a FRP. Waiters was not foisted into the deal, he was added to match salaries, so he's a necessity to the deal. That is what Riley is currently offering. If you want Dieng in the deal, you get another crap contract to balance out the salaries. Since there are little to no other offers out there, where is the incentive for Riley to up the bid? Why would he up upbid himself?

Waiters three year deal is not a necessity, since the Heat could offer Olynyk. Be honest.

Riley’s incentive is that he wants Butler, and MIN is not going to trade him for that package.

He also has the incentive that other offers can come along as the season progresses and players get injured, and if Riley misses out on Butler because he was only willing to offer a nickel, and refused to offer a dime, the Heat face two years of mediocrity before their cap clears out.

[IAMZOOTED]

Teams like the TWolves should tell Riley to pay up or shut up. There is no need to take his garbage and give him a star player. Waiters is no Victor Oladipo, and richardson is not that good either.

You think they should just let him walk?

I'd rather let the guy sit for the season than let him dictate to me what I do with my team and force a trade where I take some teams terrible contracts and selfish washed up players. The Miami pick is not that valuable in 2019. Waiters is not a good player and I'm not sold on Richardson being anymore than a backup.

IF they could get Tobias Harris Plus some expriring contracts and a #1 from the Clippers they'd be better off than taking a guy like Waiters.

It’s one terrible contract, and it has to be included to make the salaries work. Josh Richardson’s contract is great, he’s underpaid, he’s significantly better than you’re giving him credit for. The other teams that have been mentioned in trade talks are the clippers, who want to build a package around Jerome Robinson and the Rockets, who won’t give up PJ Tucker to get him.

They’re better off with Richardson and the pick than letting Butler walk. Waiters is whatever, the timberwolves don’t need the cap space.. they’re the timberwolves.

[IAMZOOTED]

But if Riley only offers 25 cents, won’t you be frustrated if someone else offers 50 cents?

Riley tried foisting Dion Waiters bad contract and not taking back Dieng. If the Heat have to wait two more years on their treadmill to nowhere, shouldn’t a little of this anger be not be at Riley for making this his final final offer?

Richardson is a young player with some upside and they get a FRP. Waiters was not foisted into the deal, he was added to match salaries, so he's a necessity to the deal. That is what Riley is currently offering. If you want Dieng in the deal, you get another crap contract to balance out the salaries. Since there are little to no other offers out there, where is the incentive for Riley to up the bid? Why would he up upbid himself?

Waiters three year deal is not a necessity, since the Heat could offer Olynyk. Be honest.

Riley’s incentive is that he wants Butler, and MIN is not going to trade him for that package.

He also has the incentive that other offers can come along as the season progresses and players get injured, and if Riley misses out on Butler because he was only willing to offer a nickel, and refused to offer a dime, the Heat face two years of mediocrity before their cap clears out.

You think other teams will start offering more the closer to the deadline? Seems unlikely, right now the heat offer is by far the best offer that has been mentioned