Luka Dončić Discussion - Year 2

[Rn5ho]

Well, for the most part he seemed rather invisible today, nothing spectacular. However he did show a little bit of everything while staying out of spotlight - a nice lob pass to Powell, a nice floater, a few more nice passes that were not converted, got past his defender multiple times, including Covington who is a high end defender in NBA, played decent defense with blocks and steals.

He was stopped by Simmons 1 on 1, that was really some nice defending - however Simmons is an elite defender, so imo there's no shame in that. He will learn and adapt.

He didn't handle the ball nearly as much as I'd have liked, hopefully we get to see even more of that in the future, but since there are so many PGs/ballhandlers in the team, that seems less likely..

[XTraderXL]

Well, for the most part he seemed rather invisible today, nothing spectacular. However he did show a little bit of everything while staying out of spotlight - a nice lob pass to Powell, a nice floater, a few more nice passes that were not converted, got past his defender multiple times, including Covington who is a high end defender in NBA, played decent defense with blocks and steals.

He was stopped by Simmons 1 on 1, that was really some nice defending - however Simmons is an elite defender, so imo there's no shame in that. He will learn and adapt.

He didn't handle the ball nearly as much as I'd have liked, hopefully we get to see even more of that in the future, but since there are so many PGs/ballhandlers in the team, that seems less likely..

This is kind of what I expect from his rookie season. He got by his defenders but when they actually played real defense, he did not get by. It only happened a few times, you could see that Simmons was easily able to stay in front of him without any real effort. Luka will need a pick on nearly every play to really create, as I expected.

All in all I expected him to play much better today since there was no Jordan and Barnes but I think this is about what he will average this season.

[Archx]

Well, for the most part he seemed rather invisible today, nothing spectacular. However he did show a little bit of everything while staying out of spotlight - a nice lob pass to Powell, a nice floater, a few more nice passes that were not converted, got past his defender multiple times, including Covington who is a high end defender in NBA, played decent defense with blocks and steals.

He was stopped by Simmons 1 on 1, that was really some nice defending - however Simmons is an elite defender, so imo there's no shame in that. He will learn and adapt.

He didn't handle the ball nearly as much as I'd have liked, hopefully we get to see even more of that in the future, but since there are so many PGs/ballhandlers in the team, that seems less likely..

Hmmm i wouldn't agree that he was invisible. I mean he played in the system. I think Mavs are just trying many different things plus Matthews was trying to be Kobe again when Luka was wide open. All in all if his shot was there, he would have been their nr1 scorer today. So i think that he wasn't really invisible just bad shooting performance. And he played really good defense, which surprised me a lot.

[Promezclan]

Luka is always a sort of in-the-flow player, even as a PG. Whenever I watched Real Madrid play, he never really stood out or dominated, yet he put up good stats and won MVPs and championships. If hes playing off-the-call, he'll really be picking his spots. Even shooting as poorly as he did, could have been a pretty good game if he finished that time he got to the rim and it rolled out, and if a couple more of his good passes had been finished.

[Rn5ho]

By invisible I meant "nothing special"/"didn't stand out" or in other words, his usage % was really low (or seemed that way at least) considering he had the most mins on Mavs team. He was alone a few times, but his teammates just didn't look his way at all, he could have scored some open 3s, but he didn't get a single one that I can think of.

But yes, defense was nice - 3 steals, 2 blocks and mostly very well contested shots.

[Archx]

Luka is always a sort of in-the-flow player, even as a PG. Whenever I watched Real Madrid play, he never really stood out or dominated, yet he put up good stats and won MVPs and championships. If hes playing off-the-call, he'll really be picking his spots. Even shooting as poorly as he did, could have been a pretty good game if he finished that time he got to the rim and it rolled out, and if a couple more of his good passes had been finished.

Yea good observation and i also think that way. He is the type of player that will get you wins and you wouldn't even notice that he did something until you checked his stats.

[XTraderXL]

Luka is always a sort of in-the-flow player, even as a PG. Whenever I watched Real Madrid play, he never really stood out or dominated, yet he put up good stats and won MVPs and championships. If hes playing off-the-call, he'll really be picking his spots. Even shooting as poorly as he did, could have been a pretty good game if he finished that time he got to the rim and it rolled out, and if a couple more of his good passes had been finished.

He stood out plenty in the first half of the season last year. He had a 12-15 games stretch in the EL that has maybe never been seen before. Then he started to fade in late January and really only had 1 or 2 great games since then.

My concern is that I am not seeing any progress for the past 6 months. He is not more skilled now than he was 6 months ago, he is not in better shape than before, his shot is not better, his FT % is not better.... All this shows on the court as well.

About a year ago there was a debate about how much room for improvement he has compared to other prospects in his class. My point back then was that we cant know that and that it has no point in discussing it until he starts to stagnate. I think now its clear that his trajectory slowed down considerably and I am really wondering how close to his ceiling he actually is. And its not just about these two games, I have been somewhat concerned about this since April/May. I just see some tendencies and trends in his game as well as in his body that are very concerning to me. I might be wrong of course...

[batigol18]

I think Monday game will be much more telling regading Doncic game. He always adapted real fast and it is actually really good that he will have a chance to play again in three days against same team that had good chance to reach at least East conference final.

I believe he will have better numbers and overal game than today, although for me he had quite solid first game against real NBA team and majority of his minutes were against best players from Philly. We know, he can play much better.

[arkuo]

He's gonna get his butt handed to him especially on his first year. Have you guys seen Steve Nash play here in 98? He looked horrible. Dont overanalyze every move. Luka just needs to have fun playing basketball with Dennis, Harrison, Deandre and Dirk. Let the others compete for a title. These years are character building years for the young ones. Stats get thrown out the door for now.

Nash averaged 3 points, 2 assists, 1 foul and 1 turnover his rookie season. Had the athleticism of an old white dude and his calling card were his platinum frosted tips. Eventually the same guy would build character, live and grow in the same apartment complex as Dirk, and eventually win back to back league MVPs in PHX. Give him time.

[Archx]

Luka is always a sort of in-the-flow player, even as a PG. Whenever I watched Real Madrid play, he never really stood out or dominated, yet he put up good stats and won MVPs and championships. If hes playing off-the-call, he'll really be picking his spots. Even shooting as poorly as he did, could have been a pretty good game if he finished that time he got to the rim and it rolled out, and if a couple more of his good passes had been finished.

He stood out plenty in the first half of the season last year. He had a 12-15 games stretch in the EL that has maybe never been seen before. Then he started to fade in late January and really only had 1 or 2 great games since then.

My concern is that I am not seeing any progress for the past 6 months. He is not more skilled now than he was 6 months ago, he is not in better shape than before, his shot is not better, his FT % is not better.... All this shows on the court as well.

About a year ago there was a debate about how much room for improvement he has compared to other prospects in his class. My point back then was that we cant know that and that it has no point in discussing it until he starts to stagnate. I think now its clear that his trajectory slowed down considerably and I am really wondering how close to his ceiling he actually is. And its not just about these two games, I have been somewhat concerned about this since April/May. I just see some tendencies and trends in his game as well as in his body that are very concerning to me. I might be wrong of course...

His defense was horrible in Real Madrid, so far he looks like Bruce Bowen out there. Also his playmaking got significantly better since RM days. He is much more confident with the ball and also penetrates a lot more than he did. I am not sure we are watching the same player my friend.
Like you point out in every single topic you write, after he gets in a much better shape, he will get even better, stronger even more confident. How doesn't he have much room for improvement? I mean if he can only get his shot going, he is easy 20ppg type of guy even in his rookie year. That's insanely good. If Rick trusts him with 30mpg or even more and he continues to develop him over the year, he will be scary good in his 2nd year. Like you say, plus gym training... Sky is the limit for Luka at this point.

[mabundo_nagumbe]

Luka is always a sort of in-the-flow player, even as a PG. Whenever I watched Real Madrid play, he never really stood out or dominated, yet he put up good stats and won MVPs and championships. If hes playing off-the-call, he'll really be picking his spots. Even shooting as poorly as he did, could have been a pretty good game if he finished that time he got to the rim and it rolled out, and if a couple more of his good passes had been finished.

He stood out plenty in the first half of the season last year. He had a 12-15 games stretch in the EL that has maybe never been seen before. Then he started to fade in late January and really only had 1 or 2 great games since then.

My concern is that I am not seeing any progress for the past 6 months. He is not more skilled now than he was 6 months ago, he is not in better shape than before, his shot is not better, his FT % is not better.... All this shows on the court as well.

About a year ago there was a debate about how much room for improvement he has compared to other prospects in his class. My point back then was that we cant know that and that it has no point in discussing it until he starts to stagnate. I think now its clear that his trajectory slowed down considerably and I am really wondering how close to his ceiling he actually is. And its not just about these two games, I have been somewhat concerned about this since April/May. I just see some tendencies and trends in his game as well as in his body that are very concerning to me. I might be wrong of course...

I get your point, and I would agree with it 100% if he would still play in Real Madrid. But he is making a huge transition, can you give him some time to adapt? I couldn't have imagined that he would come to NBA and make really noticable improvements from his last years season.

[thr3ep01nte4]

It only happened a few times, you could see that Simmons was easily able to stay in front of him without any real effort. Luka will need a pick on nearly every play to really create, as I expected.

Simmons clearly tried when he was defending Doncic. It's not like he was just planting there. Steve Nash wasn't really blowing by people that often either.

[DAWill1128]

Kinda reminds me of Gordan Hayward, not the flashy athleticism or impressive isolation work but very effective. Which are really more the strengths of DSJ. One thing I do notice is the guy makes the right plays, he does what your fundamentally taught by good coaches. Doncic is essentially the Spurs way, where guys don't jump off the highlight reel or impress you with the stats. Doncic is never gonna pour it on you like Kobe or dunk it on your head like Vince Carter. The stats and highlights are a bit of a disservice to his impact. But Doncic is gonna help you win and create a high bball IQ culture, no doubt.

Also the body, the guys young. Haywards body looked similar before he went through a complete transformation. McGrady was rail thin. It's still very much a physical development stage along with a higher emphasis at the NBA level.

[XTraderXL]

Luka is always a sort of in-the-flow player, even as a PG. Whenever I watched Real Madrid play, he never really stood out or dominated, yet he put up good stats and won MVPs and championships. If hes playing off-the-call, he'll really be picking his spots. Even shooting as poorly as he did, could have been a pretty good game if he finished that time he got to the rim and it rolled out, and if a couple more of his good passes had been finished.

He stood out plenty in the first half of the season last year. He had a 12-15 games stretch in the EL that has maybe never been seen before. Then he started to fade in late January and really only had 1 or 2 great games since then.

My concern is that I am not seeing any progress for the past 6 months. He is not more skilled now than he was 6 months ago, he is not in better shape than before, his shot is not better, his FT % is not better.... All this shows on the court as well.

About a year ago there was a debate about how much room for improvement he has compared to other prospects in his class. My point back then was that we cant know that and that it has no point in discussing it until he starts to stagnate. I think now its clear that his trajectory slowed down considerably and I am really wondering how close to his ceiling he actually is. And its not just about these two games, I have been somewhat concerned about this since April/May. I just see some tendencies and trends in his game as well as in his body that are very concerning to me. I might be wrong of course...

His defense was horrible in Real Madrid, so far he looks like Bruce Bowen out there. Also his playmaking got significantly better since RM days. He is much more confident with the ball and also penetrates a lot more than he did. I am not sure we are watching the same player my friend.
Like you point out in every single topic you write, after he gets in a much better shape, he will get even better, stronger even more confident. How doesn't he have much room for improvement? I mean if he can only get his shot going, he is easy 20ppg type of guy even in his rookie year. That's insanely good. If Rick trusts him with 30mpg or even more and he continues to develop him over the year, he will be scary good in his 2nd year. Like you say, plus gym training... Sky is the limit for Luka at this point.

I am taking a version of Luka from one year ago over current version every day of the week. He is better now than he was in June, but he is not better than he was last October-January. His defense was better in these two games but thats about the only thing that was improved. Besides, he played against the Ducks and today he played against Saric mostly, who is even slower than Luka. I am certain they will attack him more on Monday and you will not be mentioning his defense then. But I expect him to have a higher usage rate offensively, the question is how effective he will be. T

What I can see so far is nothing that would make me think he will have a great rookie year. I think he will not be even close to ROY, thats more or less reserved for Ayton in my opinion.

[Nikson]

I agree with you all. Except maybe in future prediction. Every game will give us a huge amount of information. Than it comes to his capability to adapt. I saw his game as solid. Bad shooting percentage. But it is just as it is on a daily basis.

My prediction for the next game, optimistic one , on what we saw from him his entire career.

He will play against them second time. He will loosen a little. I can’t remember right now of opponent that stopped him in one game and didn’t get a direct blow in their head just next game after he have a good sleep. Can anyone remember that situation? Help me. This alone will bring a lot better game. Percentage will therefore go up. This alone is a 15 pt game. In that situation, if they try just a little more on defense on him, might mean a roller coaster fo them and a just 3 mistakes bum ther we have a 25 point game. Rebounds, assists... and all that go with that.

Pessimistic, I don’t think that way.

[Teffer10]

Watching Luka over these two games he kinda reminds me of Chris Mullin.
He has that craftiness and old style BB savvy like Mullin and Havlicek had with limited athleticism.

[Pointguard01]

I’ve really liked what I’ve seen in the first two games. He’s going to be good.

I also think he’ll have no problem playing SF/PF. An ideal player to put next to him would be another big SF/PF — Tobias Harris would be great.

You can definitely see his conditioning isn’t great and he gets tired quickly. As mentioned, that can and will be improved into years 2 & 3.

No doubt in my mind that he’s going to be a really good player. I still am very curious as to how well he’ll shot the 3.


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[Mirotic12]

I said in my previous posts that next summer and season will be much more telling than this one because he will have more time to work on his weaknesses. Thats why I keep saying its possible he will become a great player eventually. But for right now I can only go by what evidence we have and nobody can deny that at this moment he looks heavy and slow. Luka just has that kind of body type that will need extra work and good nutrition to be in great shape. We can be hopeful that he will get in shape but its all speculation, you simply cant know that. What we know for certain is that he will improve his skills but his body is another matter.

This season he will see what he needs to work on, until now he never played against NBA level competition on a regular basis. In EL there are players who could play in the NBA but those players would be 9th-12th men and Luka will be playing against starters and superstars which is a whole other level.

That's not correct at all that no player in Europe could be a top 8 player in an NBA rotation. In fact, role players and bench warmers from EuroLeague go to be rotation players and starters all the time in the NBA. Even role players and bench warmers from lower level European leagues do the same all the time.

Also, every year there are NBA rotation players / 6th men, and even starters, that go to EuroLeague and other lower level European leagues and fail to make it as players - plenty of times they get cut. There have been a whole bunch of NBA players that went to EuroLeague and were huge busts there.

NBA is better than EuroLeague, but you are underrating the EuroLeague's level by an extreme degree.

[Dundalis]

He stood out plenty in the first half of the season last year. He had a 12-15 games stretch in the EL that has maybe never been seen before. Then he started to fade in late January and really only had 1 or 2 great games since then.

My concern is that I am not seeing any progress for the past 6 months. He is not more skilled now than he was 6 months ago, he is not in better shape than before, his shot is not better, his FT % is not better.... All this shows on the court as well.

About a year ago there was a debate about how much room for improvement he has compared to other prospects in his class. My point back then was that we cant know that and that it has no point in discussing it until he starts to stagnate. I think now its clear that his trajectory slowed down considerably and I am really wondering how close to his ceiling he actually is. And its not just about these two games, I have been somewhat concerned about this since April/May. I just see some tendencies and trends in his game as well as in his body that are very concerning to me. I might be wrong of course...

His defense was horrible in Real Madrid, so far he looks like Bruce Bowen out there. Also his playmaking got significantly better since RM days. He is much more confident with the ball and also penetrates a lot more than he did. I am not sure we are watching the same player my friend.
Like you point out in every single topic you write, after he gets in a much better shape, he will get even better, stronger even more confident. How doesn't he have much room for improvement? I mean if he can only get his shot going, he is easy 20ppg type of guy even in his rookie year. That's insanely good. If Rick trusts him with 30mpg or even more and he continues to develop him over the year, he will be scary good in his 2nd year. Like you say, plus gym training... Sky is the limit for Luka at this point.

I am taking a version of Luka from one year ago over current version every day of the week. He is better now than he was in June, but he is not better than he was last October-January. His defense was better in these two games but thats about the only thing that was improved. Besides, he played against the Ducks and today he played against Saric mostly, who is even slower than Luka. I am certain they will attack him more on Monday and you will not be mentioning his defense then. But I expect him to have a higher usage rate offensively, the question is how effective he will be. T

What I can see so far is nothing that would make me think he will have a great rookie year. I think he will not be even close to ROY, thats more or less reserved for Ayton in my opinion.

Well I'm still talking about his defense, so you're wrong there. In fact I'm talking about it more than his offense, which has been pretty good for a 19 year old. He's been the Mavericks best player easily so far, whether that wins him ROY is up for debate, but unless he gets injured saying he's going to have a bad rookie year is a garbage take.

[bondom34]

https://streamable.com/neh3d