Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[Knightro]

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He'll probably end up in Lakeland.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I go into this season seeing not a single new thing that any player brought to their game over the summer. It's disappointing. It doesn't look like anyone did anything new. If anything, it looks like they all regressed. I don't lump JI or Bamba in there because they don't really have a baseline from which to compare, but everyone else, meh.

The worst part I think is that we are bringing back the main 7-8 guys from what feels like a decade of mediocrity. I'm not expecting much from Bamba either way until next year. AG appears to be just as bad, if not worse, Fournier is the exact same if not worse, Vuc, DJ, Simmons, etc. When I think about it, my only hope for having a good season lies on JI's shoulders. He's the only unknown in the group that I feel could change things at this time in the rebuild.

You are 100% spot on. I am only watching Magic games to see the development of Isaac and Bamba. I am hoping they can stay healthy for the whole season or else this team will be unbearable to watch.

[OrlandO]

I go into this season seeing not a single new thing that any player brought to their game over the summer. It's disappointing. It doesn't look like anyone did anything new. If anything, it looks like they all regressed. I don't lump JI or Bamba in there because they don't really have a baseline from which to compare, but everyone else, meh.

The worst part I think is that we are bringing back the main 7-8 guys from what feels like a decade of mediocrity. I'm not expecting much from Bamba either way until next year. AG appears to be just as bad, if not worse, Fournier is the exact same if not worse, Vuc, DJ, Simmons, etc. When I think about it, my only hope for having a good season lies on JI's shoulders. He's the only unknown in the group that I feel could change things at this time in the rebuild.

The only disappointment should be AG if he hasn't improved a lick. He's the highest lotto pick remaining from the rebuild, he's our highest paid player, and he's the one returning "vet" who should still be making noticeable improvement. Hopefully he settles down and his off season work starts showing up in the regular season otherwise we're in for a long year. The rest of the guys are basically finished products... nobody should be surprised by what they can and can't do.

[Knightro]

I go into this season seeing not a single new thing that any player brought to their game over the summer. It's disappointing. It doesn't look like anyone did anything new. If anything, it looks like they all regressed. I don't lump JI or Bamba in there because they don't really have a baseline from which to compare, but everyone else, meh.

The worst part I think is that we are bringing back the main 7-8 guys from what feels like a decade of mediocrity. I'm not expecting much from Bamba either way until next year. AG appears to be just as bad, if not worse, Fournier is the exact same if not worse, Vuc, DJ, Simmons, etc. When I think about it, my only hope for having a good season lies on JI's shoulders. He's the only unknown in the group that I feel could change things at this time in the rebuild.

There are obviously exceptions to every rule, but the vast majority of guys don't really *add* things or make dramatic improvements to their games after their rookie contracts are up and especially not past age 25.

Most of a player's development comes in years 1 thru 5. Once you get past that, you pretty much are what you are.

[pepe1991]

Most players after rookie year become some better versions of themselfs.
Pretty much all superstars break out from day one.

Having players like Oladipo,who break out in 5th or 6th year is exception, not rule. In whole league only him, Giannis and Leonard fit that mold and from different reasons. One didn't have work ethic to break sooner.
Giannis started to play basketball when he was freaking 14 , after 4 years he was in nba.
And Leonard played on contender and they didn't need to rush him or needed bigger production from him.

if you have , let's say 24 years old player, it's pretty unrealistic to expect him to learn over 4 months something new that he did not do before. You have to know that most of nba players started to play basketball at age of 8-10 . So by the time he is 24 he is already playing some sort of basketball for 14 years.

[PrimeThyme]

I go into this season seeing not a single new thing that any player brought to their game over the summer. It's disappointing. It doesn't look like anyone did anything new. If anything, it looks like they all regressed. I don't lump JI or Bamba in there because they don't really have a baseline from which to compare, but everyone else, meh.

The worst part I think is that we are bringing back the main 7-8 guys from what feels like a decade of mediocrity. I'm not expecting much from Bamba either way until next year. AG appears to be just as bad, if not worse, Fournier is the exact same if not worse, Vuc, DJ, Simmons, etc. When I think about it, my only hope for having a good season lies on JI's shoulders. He's the only unknown in the group that I feel could change things at this time in the rebuild.

I mean what did you expect though? Did you expect Vuc, Evan, Augustine, Simmons, Etc to have made any significant improvements to their game? They are what they are at this point. The most we can hope for is for AG to consistently play all NBA type defense and to continue to make a jump offensively (the former is more likely than the latter). Isaac looks more comfortable on the offensive end and Bamba's shot is much improved since college, but both of those guys are just kids and aren't going to affect the win column too much and will likely still be brought along slowly this year.

Thats why the sooner people accept that this teams ceiling is 30 wins I think the easier it will be. We know what these same group of players are (Vuc,DJ,Evan,Ross,Simmons) and it doesn't make for a good basketball team. Thats why so many of us were disappointed we went into the season with the same core veteran group. The bright side is that this should help us in the tank race, but as far as playoffs or being really competitive goes I don't see it happening.

[basketballRob]

Looks like Bamba was our best player in the preseason.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/preseason/team/Orlando-Magic/21/stats

[SOUL]

Watch on YouTube

Mo Bamba on The Shop with LeBron and Oladipo

[Def Swami]

I go into this season seeing not a single new thing that any player brought to their game over the summer. It's disappointing. It doesn't look like anyone did anything new. If anything, it looks like they all regressed. I don't lump JI or Bamba in there because they don't really have a baseline from which to compare, but everyone else, meh.

The worst part I think is that we are bringing back the main 7-8 guys from what feels like a decade of mediocrity. I'm not expecting much from Bamba either way until next year. AG appears to be just as bad, if not worse, Fournier is the exact same if not worse, Vuc, DJ, Simmons, etc. When I think about it, my only hope for having a good season lies on JI's shoulders. He's the only unknown in the group that I feel could change things at this time in the rebuild.

Yep. Completely feel the same way. I'm not sure what makes this different than last season's "evaluation year."

A little disappointed in Gordon, but I'm willing to see him settle out with some time. 5th coach for him in 5 years, he's back to playing SF which didn't work before, and still doesn't really play with a playmaker to make the game easier on him. I expect more from him, but he's still playing with a group that doesn't really mitigate his weaknesses and takes advantages of his strengths.

Gordon is going to be under the most scrutiny of anyone this year given the contract and the log jam of players that occupy the similar space on the floor. The 2.5 months before he's available for trade will be interesting. It'll be hard to evaluate him, or anyone for that matter, given how screwed up this roster is, but it'll naturally occur given the expectations.

Isaac and Bamba are interesting from a potential standpoint. I just want to see Isaac be aggressive on offense. He's a beast on defense. Bamba has a load of talent. I just want him to learn to be a great defender this year and not get hurt.

Bringing everyone else back just seems lazy and futile. I don't see any reason to anticipate a different outcome than last season. I don't know what the objective of this season is supposed to be. Not going to make the playoffs and not trying to be one of the 5 worst teams.

I've said it before; I'd be more excited if they just went full on Hinkie this season. Play the young players a ton of minutes, lose a bunch of games, and give us a real shot at RJ Barrett or Nas Little or Cam Reddish. Teams like the Knicks, Hawks, and Kings are primed for this and I admire them for it.

[VFX]

I go into this season seeing not a single new thing that any player brought to their game over the summer. It's disappointing. It doesn't look like anyone did anything new. If anything, it looks like they all regressed. I don't lump JI or Bamba in there because they don't really have a baseline from which to compare, but everyone else, meh.

The worst part I think is that we are bringing back the main 7-8 guys from what feels like a decade of mediocrity. I'm not expecting much from Bamba either way until next year. AG appears to be just as bad, if not worse, Fournier is the exact same if not worse, Vuc, DJ, Simmons, etc. When I think about it, my only hope for having a good season lies on JI's shoulders. He's the only unknown in the group that I feel could change things at this time in the rebuild.

Bringing everyone else back just seems lazy and futile. I don't see any reason to anticipate a different outcome than last season. I don't know what the objective of this season is supposed to be. Not going to make the playoffs and not trying to be one of the 5 worst teams.

I've said it before; I'd be more excited if they just went full on Hinkie this season. Play the young players a ton of minutes, lose a bunch of games, and give us a real shot at RJ Barrett or Nas Little or Cam Reddish. Teams like the Knicks, Hawks, and Kings are primed for this and I admire them for it.

Absolutely. Those are the only things anyone should really want realistically . The objectives for this season are pretty clear to anyone that can see this roster isn’t well constructed currently.

[PennytoShaq]

Some of you all should reread knigtros post that shows the new lottery odds.

Also, admiring Atlanta makes no sense at all. They just had potentially a really weak draft compounded by giving up Doncic.

Point is, the magic can try and actually get something from their vet assets closer to the deadline instead of dumping them away for nothing just to tank and maybe get lottery luck.

Magic are still well positioned to get a top 5 pick in their current situation. They are also clearly going to give bamba and isaac 25 or more minutes a night, so its not like these guys wont play much - which some actually thought would happen.

[BadMofoPimp]

Most players after rookie year become some better versions of themselfs.
Pretty much all superstars break out from day one.

Having players like Oladipo,who break out in 5th or 6th year is exception, not rule. In whole league only him, Giannis and Leonard fit that mold and from different reasons. One didn't have work ethic to break sooner.
Giannis started to play basketball when he was freaking 14 , after 4 years he was in nba.
And Leonard played on contender and they didn't need to rush him or needed bigger production from him.

if you have , let's say 24 years old player, it's pretty unrealistic to expect him to learn over 4 months something new that he did not do before. You have to know that most of nba players started to play basketball at age of 8-10 . So by the time he is 24 he is already playing some sort of basketball for 14 years.

Tell that to Dennis Rodman

[Def Swami]

Some of you all should reread knigtros post that shows the new lottery odds.

Also, admiring Atlanta makes no sense at all. They just had potentially a really weak draft compounded by giving up Doncic.

Point is, the magic can try and actually get something from their vet assets closer to the deadline instead of dumping them away for nothing just to tank and maybe get lottery luck.

Magic are still well positioned to get a top 5 pick in their current situation. They are also clearly going to give bamba and isaac 25 or more minutes a night, so its not like these guys wont play much - which some actually thought would happen.

Hopefully. We'll see at the deadline. In addition to how well Gordon fares and the progress of Isaac and Bamba, what Weltman and Hammond do on the trade front is the most interesting storyline of the season.

[PennytoShaq]

Some of you all should reread knigtros post that shows the new lottery odds.

Also, admiring Atlanta makes no sense at all. They just had potentially a really weak draft compounded by giving up Doncic.

Point is, the magic can try and actually get something from their vet assets closer to the deadline instead of dumping them away for nothing just to tank and maybe get lottery luck.

Magic are still well positioned to get a top 5 pick in their current situation. They are also clearly going to give bamba and isaac 25 or more minutes a night, so its not like these guys wont play much - which some actually thought would happen.

Hopefully. We'll see at the deadline.

Yep. All we can do. I’d love to see no more of the old guard here too, but it’s not easy to get rid of these guys unfortunately. I just don’t think anyone wants Vuc, but I really hope I am wrong. I just remember what we got for Elf, and now I see Mario playing worse than ever, and it just seems like our guys probably have super low value to other teams.

[Magic4champ]

There is nothing wrong with individual players in this team. All players in any nba team has their own strengths and weaknesses. Its a matter of putting the team together and making use of their advantages and skill sets. I think Clifford will play according to our strengths. Of course we are waiting for the development of AG to be our stud player. Clifford will position him where he will be more succesful. He is not like Batum kind of player who can attack with a dribble. He can position his defender using his strenght at the post. No need for him to hoist a lot of 3. He is a power forward in the offense. Isaac will take the long 3s. And be the pf on defense. Ag and Isaac complements moving forward.

[tiderulz]

Most players after rookie year become some better versions of themselfs.
Pretty much all superstars break out from day one.

Having players like Oladipo,who break out in 5th or 6th year is exception, not rule. In whole league only him, Giannis and Leonard fit that mold and from different reasons. One didn't have work ethic to break sooner.
Giannis started to play basketball when he was freaking 14 , after 4 years he was in nba.
And Leonard played on contender and they didn't need to rush him or needed bigger production from him.

if you have , let's say 24 years old player, it's pretty unrealistic to expect him to learn over 4 months something new that he did not do before. You have to know that most of nba players started to play basketball at age of 8-10 . So by the time he is 24 he is already playing some sort of basketball for 14 years.

Tell that to Dennis Rodman

and how many Dennis Rodman's are there? as he said, its the exception, not the rule or expectation

[PennytoShaq]

There is nothing wrong with individual players in this team. All players in any nba team has their own strengths and weaknesses. Its a matter of putting the team together and making use of their advantages and skill sets. I think Clifford will play according to our strengths. Of course we are waiting for the development of AG to be our stud player. Clifford will position him where he will be more succesful. He is not like Batum kind of player who can attack with a dribble. He can position his defender using his strenght at the post. No need for him to hoist a lot of 3. He is a power forward in the offense. Isaac will take the long 3s. And be the pf on defense. Ag and Isaac complements moving forward.

I agree with the second part. I do think there are things wrong with many individual players on this team though. Mainly the vets, who about everyone here wants to see moved. Problem is they just dont have the market value.

I like Ag but our stud player is Bamba and then Isaac in my opinion.

[BadMofoPimp]

Most players after rookie year become some better versions of themselfs.
Pretty much all superstars break out from day one.

Having players like Oladipo,who break out in 5th or 6th year is exception, not rule. In whole league only him, Giannis and Leonard fit that mold and from different reasons. One didn't have work ethic to break sooner.
Giannis started to play basketball when he was freaking 14 , after 4 years he was in nba.
And Leonard played on contender and they didn't need to rush him or needed bigger production from him.

if you have , let's say 24 years old player, it's pretty unrealistic to expect him to learn over 4 months something new that he did not do before. You have to know that most of nba players started to play basketball at age of 8-10 . So by the time he is 24 he is already playing some sort of basketball for 14 years.

Tell that to Dennis Rodman

and how many Dennis Rodman's are there? as he said, its the exception, not the rule or expectation

I just proved that it is not unrealistic.

I would even say Chauncey Billups is another. Maybe, Ben Wallace as well. udonis Haslem.

[pepe1991]

Tell that to Dennis Rodman

and how many Dennis Rodman's are there? as he said, its the exception, not the rule or expectation

I just proved that it is not unrealistic.

I would even say Chauncey Billups is another. Maybe, Ben Wallace as well. udonis Haslem.

So 5 guys in league where 500 players play every year, over 20 years is realistic?

When was Haslem good? Guy's career season was 12 points at age 27, guy averaged 11 points in second season.
Wallace per 36 min or per 100 possession was pretty much same player from day one. Great rebounder,blocker and good at steals, had no offense. Even in his apsolute prime he averaged only 7,6 points but got all his value playing defense.

Billups averaged 11 points in rookie, 14 in second season. That's 3 points less than he did in year when they won championship. On same amount of shots. Guy just got more effective.


As i said, people have unrealistic expetations about development of players. It's not mad science job it's just getting players in better shape and putting them in positions where they are best at , on the floor. That's why you have players on same teams, about same age, who work with same coaches, one can have massive improvments other never gets any better. Case and point -Lamb traded for Harden, allegedly high upside guy at times, goes to best youth development in the world at that time, never actually gets better.

Same team that drafted Giannis drafted Thon Maker. Guy 3 years into nba bearly looks like functional player for G league, let alone nba. That's top 10 pick from 3 years ago, third string C today.

[BadMofoPimp]

and how many Dennis Rodman's are there? as he said, its the exception, not the rule or expectation

I just proved that it is not unrealistic.

I would even say Chauncey Billups is another. Maybe, Ben Wallace as well. udonis Haslem.

So 5 guys in league where 500 players play every year, over 20 years is realistic?

When was Haslem good? Guy's career season was 12 points at age 27, guy averaged 11 points in second season.
Wallace per 36 min or per 100 possession was pretty much same player from day one. Great rebounder,blocker and good at steals, had no offense. Even in his apsolute prime he averaged only 7,6 points but got all his value playing defense.

Billups averaged 11 points in rookie, 14 in second season. That's 3 points less than he did in year when they won championship. On same amount of shots. Guy just got more effective.


As i said, people have unrealistic expetations about development of players. It's not mad science job it's just getting players in better shape and putting them in positions where they are best at , on the floor. That's why you have players on same teams, about same age, who work with same coaches, one can have massive improvments other never gets any better. Case and point -Lamb traded for Harden, allegedly high upside guy at times, goes to best youth development in the world at that time, never actually gets better.

Same team that drafted Giannis drafted Thon Maker. Guy 3 years into nba bearly looks like functional player for G league, let alone nba. That's top 10 pick from 3 years ago, third string C today.

I am sure there were way more than 5 players.