Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[Jedzz]

I don't know if he's forced to play if he's medically cleared because I remember Derrick Rose was cleared but didn't play during that one year with the Bulls due to "muscle memory" or something like that.

Jimmy could just be like "Still rehabbing this hand" for the first few weeks of the season until Thibs realizes we need someone to fill the void and we make a deal with Miami or someone else

I forgot about those options. He can always punch a fridge or knuckle pushup his way out of the season if no one believes the obligatory story.

[Alwaysrightguy]

the Tucker Winslow comparisons are pretty even. However PJ has hit his ceiling and JW has only hit his floor. Ive always like JW since watching him in a bluedevil uni. really thought he would be a solid NBA talent. I aint got no trade machine in front of me but if we can get JW and Whiteside for JB, I am all for it. I am not convinced KAT can play D but I know Whiteside can at least do that even tho he is grossly overpaid to do so.

Whiteside
KAT
Winslow
BICH(AKA Wigs)
Teague

lets go

[shangrila]

I was actually wondering that; has Whiteside ever been in the deal? I haven't seen any rumours saying so and I'd imagine they would talk about him since he's still a "name". Any Miami guys heard anything from your local beat guys?

[Jedzz]

Thing I don't get is, why trade away Lavine, Dunn and Markkanen for Butler if they weren't going to extend Butler?

I can understand if the Wolves didn't plan to re-sign Lavine and Dunn. But they gave away a top 10 pick which became Markkanen?

Taylor offered Butler the highest extension he could under the CBA, and Butler turned it down. That was expected, because the max extension is significantly less than the max he could get at the end of the season.

Butler wants his contract renegotiated now, but it would require MIN going from $25 mil over the cap, to $30 mil under. Otherwise, he has to wait until the end of the season to get his max.

And finally, you’re right, Taylor wouldn’t have approved a trade for Butler with LaVine, Dunn and the #7 if he was unwilling to give him the max in two years.

Did attendance increase last year over the previous year?

Higher local TV ratings or greater jersey sales?

Maybe any increase in revenues wasn’t enough to justify having a third $30 million plus player, especially with luxury taxes.

I would have to wager all those things increased just last season. Was it enough? Don't know. But I would assume when Taylor told us he was thinking longterm at the start of all this that he understood how this works. I also think most of these people know you don't making slashing decisions only off the increases from the first winning season in 14 years. Imagine what two or three winning seasons in a row would do for all those things after 13-14 losing seasons. This at a time when Franchise values are going through the roof. One more year of winning back to back and Taylor could be sitting on a golden goose in value. Even with all the negative things going on right now and how poorly they've shown in the preseason, this team is only now worthy to bother talking about so much. No media cared about the Wolves stupid antics each season when they were losers.

He's been getting one hell of a return on what they've spent. I have no doubts in that compared to previous years. Not sure if they can salvage a second season in a row right now though and if they don't the league will quickly go back to ignoring them.

[big3_8_19_21]

Thing I don't get is, why trade away Lavine, Dunn and Markkanen for Butler if they weren't going to extend Butler?

I can understand if the Wolves didn't plan to re-sign Lavine and Dunn. But they gave away a top 10 pick which became Markkanen?

Taylor offered Butler the highest extension he could under the CBA, and Butler turned it down. That was expected, because the max extension is significantly less than the max he could get at the end of the season.

Butler wants his contract renegotiated now, but it would require MIN going from $25 mil over the cap, to $30 mil under. Otherwise, he has to wait until the end of the season to get his max.

And finally, you’re right, Taylor wouldn’t have approved a trade for Butler with LaVine, Dunn and the #7 if he was unwilling to give him the max in two years.

Did attendance increase last year over the previous year?

Higher local TV ratings or greater jersey sales?

Maybe any increase in revenues wasn’t enough to justify having a third $30 million plus player, especially with luxury taxes.

I'm sure all of those revenue streams increased last year. I'm still not sure what you're getting at. To the best of my knowledge there are no reputable reports that say Taylor was unwilling to Butler the 5 year max next summer. They have offered him as much money as they possibly could under the CBA this summer.

[Wiltside]

I was actually wondering that; has Whiteside ever been in the deal? I haven't seen any rumours saying so and I'd imagine they would talk about him since he's still a "name". Any Miami guys heard anything from your local beat guys?

Our beat guys were predominantly mentioning a combination of players as those that have been discussed. Whiteside/Dragic/Waiters/Winslow/Olynyk were the major names mentioned. Some of them were quite staunch that Richardson was not included, but who knows. National media seems to think he was. Who knows.

[Dewey]

either way we need Richardson and/or Winslow type guys to fill the void in the starting lineup ... we do not have the personnel to patch it up for even short-term needs.

[KGdaBom]

I don't think Jimmy is still gonna be here when the season starts.

That's two days from now. Not looking likely unless we cave and take complete crap.

[KGdaBom]

Thing I don't get is, why trade away Lavine, Dunn and Markkanen for Butler if they weren't going to extend Butler?

I can understand if the Wolves didn't plan to re-sign Lavine and Dunn. But they gave away a top 10 pick which became Markkanen?

Taylor offered Butler the highest extension he could under the CBA, and Butler turned it down. That was expected, because the max extension is significantly less than the max he could get at the end of the season.

Butler wants his contract renegotiated now, but it would require MIN going from $25 mil over the cap, to $30 mil under. Otherwise, he has to wait until the end of the season to get his max.

And finally, you’re right, Taylor wouldn’t have approved a trade for Butler with LaVine, Dunn and the #7 if he was unwilling to give him the max in two years.

Did attendance increase last year over the previous year?

Higher local TV ratings or greater jersey sales?

Maybe any increase in revenues wasn’t enough to justify having a third $30 million plus player, especially with luxury taxes.

I'm pretty sure attendance did increase.

[KGdaBom]

the Tucker Winslow comparisons are pretty even. However PJ has hit his ceiling and JW has only hit his floor. Ive always like JW since watching him in a bluedevil uni. really thought he would be a solid NBA talent. I aint got no trade machine in front of me but if we can get JW and Whiteside for JB, I am all for it. I am not convinced KAT can play D but I know Whiteside can at least do that even tho he is grossly overpaid to do so.

Whiteside
KAT
Winslow
BICH(AKA Wigs)
Teague

lets go

You're talking about replacing Richardson with Winslow?? No thank you.

[Klomp]

Thing I don't get is, why trade away Lavine, Dunn and Markkanen for Butler if they weren't going to extend Butler?

I can understand if the Wolves didn't plan to re-sign Lavine and Dunn. But they gave away a top 10 pick which became Markkanen?

Taylor offered Butler the highest extension he could under the CBA, and Butler turned it down. That was expected, because the max extension is significantly less than the max he could get at the end of the season.

Butler wants his contract renegotiated now, but it would require MIN going from $25 mil over the cap, to $30 mil under. Otherwise, he has to wait until the end of the season to get his max.

And finally, you’re right, Taylor wouldn’t have approved a trade for Butler with LaVine, Dunn and the #7 if he was unwilling to give him the max in two years.

Did attendance increase last year over the previous year?

Higher local TV ratings or greater jersey sales?

Maybe any increase in revenues wasn’t enough to justify having a third $30 million plus player, especially with luxury taxes.

Average attendance:
Year before Thibs: 14,175 (29/30)
Year before Jimmy: 14,809 (29/30)
Last year with both: 17,056 (21/30)

The team wrapped up the 2017-18 season with a 2.6 average household rating, a 78 percent increase in viewership year-over-year and the highest-rated season since 2011-12.

https://www.foxsports.com/north/story/minnesota-timberwolves-denver-nuggets-ratings-record-041218

[twix2500]

K

the Tucker Winslow comparisons are pretty even. However PJ has hit his ceiling and JW has only hit his floor. Ive always like JW since watching him in a bluedevil uni. really thought he would be a solid NBA talent. I aint got no trade machine in front of me but if we can get JW and Whiteside for JB, I am all for it. I am not convinced KAT can play D but I know Whiteside can at least do that even tho he is grossly overpaid to do so.

Whiteside
KAT
Winslow
BICH(AKA Wigs)
Teague

lets go

17-18 Defensive Ratings
PJ Tucker - 91.1
Justise Winslow - 89.1

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[Sign5]

Heat aren't going to package BOTH Winslow and Richardson, that's for sure.

Winslow is no big deal at all. With his extension he is now another negative contract on Miami. I prefer Richardson/Olynyk FRP for Butler or Richardson/Whiteside for Butler/Dieng no pick needed. Git r dun go Wolves.

Only 2 years 26 mil guaranteed( 3rd year a team option) for a 22 year old that has improved each and still has window to further improve (potentially turning into another bargain like the Richardson deal) is no where near a negative contract. Stop it.

I'm out, this won't lead no where

[vagelis]

You're talking about replacing Richardson with Winslow?? No thank you.

I have not paid much attention to Richardson and Winslow.
From the highlights I would say that maybe Winslow seems a little better to me. Plus he is 22 while Richardson is 25. Winslow is also one inch taller, stronger and he is a clear sf.
What do you think is the difference between them and why you believe Richardson is better? You may have a better opinion about them if you have watch them play some games

Winslow+Adebayo for Butler would be an ok deal for me without including future picks and Dieng.
It is better to get Adebayo than get rid of Dieng's contract. We can try it in the future again to get rid of Dieng's contract

[shrink]

Thing I don't get is, why trade away Lavine, Dunn and Markkanen for Butler if they weren't going to extend Butler?

I can understand if the Wolves didn't plan to re-sign Lavine and Dunn. But they gave away a top 10 pick which became Markkanen?

Taylor offered Butler the highest extension he could under the CBA, and Butler turned it down. That was expected, because the max extension is significantly less than the max he could get at the end of the season.

Butler wants his contract renegotiated now, but it would require MIN going from $25 mil over the cap, to $30 mil under. Otherwise, he has to wait until the end of the season to get his max.

And finally, you’re right, Taylor wouldn’t have approved a trade for Butler with LaVine, Dunn and the #7 if he was unwilling to give him the max in two years.

Did attendance increase last year over the previous year?

Higher local TV ratings or greater jersey sales?

Maybe any increase in revenues wasn’t enough to justify having a third $30 million plus player, especially with luxury taxes.

Attendance increased significantly last year, 607k to 699k, plus they got revenue from the five playoff games.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/197547/nba-home-attendance-of-the-minnesota-timberwolves-since-2006/

[younggunsmn]

I don't get the winslow extension.
Who were they bidding against exactly for a guy who is a negative offensive player and posted an 11.6 PER?
Cap is going to be tight again next summer outside of a handful of teams that are chasing a big fish,
and if they dont get one they are going to be looking to roll that room over to 2020.
Is some other team at worst going to give him an offer sheet for the MLE?
Sure he's only 22, but teams are getting equivalent production for much less money.

Riley has a history of overplaying role players. Waiters, McRoberts, Olynyk, johnson & johnson.

So Riley waits 3 weeks to offer a guy who put up 12/3/3 on a 13.6 PER. And he wanted us to eat (no pun intended) Dion Waiters bad contract AND send them Jimmy Butler? I wouldve hung up on that offer with a few choice expletives.

The only scenario I really see working between our teams is Richardon/Whiteside for Butler/Dieng. And that's only because I think we need to roll the dice on Whiteside to shake things up, because KAT looks the worst I've ever seen him on defense. Constantly lost and out of position.

So my final offer if I were Thibs would be Butler/Dieng for Richardson/Whiteside/lottery protected 2023 pick.
And I'd send them a 2nd if needed since they are so short on draft pick.

[Slim Tubby]

How far off in value is this for each team?

MIN $53M in: Whiteside ($24), Randolph ($12M-Expiring), Richardson ($9M), Winslow ($3M) & McLemore ($5M-Expiring)

MIN $53M out: Butler ($19M), Teague ($19M), Dieng ($1) & 2019 2nd


MIA $43M in: Butler ($19M), Chandler ($14M-Expiring) & Shumpert ($10M-Expiring)

MIA $43M out: Whiteside ($24M), Richardson ($9M), Winslow ($10M) & 2019 1st (Top 20 Protected)


SAC $20M in: Dieng ($15M), Bender ($5M-T.O.), 2019 1st (MIA) & 2019 2nd (MIN)

SAC $27M out: Randolph ($12M), Shumpert ($10M) & McLemore ($5M)


PHO $19M in: Teague ($19M)

PHO $19M out: Chandler ($14M) & Bender ($5M)

What say you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rashodamus]

How far off in value is this for each team?

MIN $53M in: Whiteside ($24), Randolph ($12M-Expiring), Richardson ($9M), Winslow ($3M) & McLemore ($5M-Expiring)

MIN $53M out: Butler ($19M), Teague ($19M), Dieng ($1) & 2019 2nd


MIA $43M in: Butler ($19M), Chandler ($14M-Expiring) & Shumpert ($10M-Expiring)

MIA $43M out: Whiteside ($24M), Richardson ($9M), Winslow ($10M) & 2019 1st (Top 20 Protected)


SAC $20M in: Dieng ($15M), Bender ($5M-T.O.), 2019 1st (MIA) & 2019 2nd (MIN)

SAC $27M out: Randolph ($12M), Shumpert ($10M) & McLemore ($5M)


PHO $19M in: Teague ($19M)

PHO $19M out: Chandler ($14M) & Bender ($5M)

What say you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont care about the other teams so I will just say what I think from the wolves end.

Whitesides performance at his best is worth about his contract I would say. If hes 15/14/3 and changing your defense then I wouldnt consider him overpaid by a lot, but definitely not a deal. When you factor in his position being the same as Towns and his history of questionable character/team mentality I see his contract as overpaid and potentially a killer. Dieng will never be a problem off the court or with chemistry, Whiteside definitely could be. So all factored in I see whiteside as a negative contract.

Richardson doesnt impress me and I see little there than solid role player 5th starter. Hes already on a fair deal (not a steal by any means) and being paid market value. I see little room for improvement so I see him as what he is now, which is a role player on a middling eastern team, not a difference maker. If he was on a rookie deal or 22 I would be more excited, but hes not.

Winslow just signed for 13M per, another guy like Richardson who is paid market value or above already while not showing they will ever be more than a middling role player. I would not be excited about having him at 13M the next few years and would literally rather have Gorgui for his locker room presence and ethic.

Salary dumps - Butler will be gone, im fine with Teague having an increased offensive role in his absence as I think it will make him a better player. He wasnt suited to be the 4th wheel, hes a scorer. Theres also the chance he opts out, something I think would be a lot more likely with Butler gone. First he will get more shots and likely up his stock and be able to cash in on another 3-4 year big 15M+ deal. Second I think hes probably done here after this version of the wolves died and will likely want to look elsewhere. He would also be a guy I could see more easily moved at the deadline for value rather than a dump, which fits with still trying to compete for now.

In the end I am not taking a bunch of trash players and long term deals to rid myself of Gorgui and Teague. The Teague issue is easily resolvable or will resolve itself. If Gorgui was at ~10M nobody would really care, but 16M is an albatross! QUICK, lets get Winslow and Whiteside in here long term for 3X the cost! Again, Gorgui is a pro, a great guy, a locker room leader and friend. Nobody has ever questioned his character, ethic, or demeanor and hes pretty universally liked. Im not dumping him for bad attitudes and equally bad or worse deals while at the same time sending out a "superstar".

I wouldnt entertain anything Miami can offer. They dont have a single player on that roster worthy of being the main piece in such a deal.

[_AIJ_]

Jimmy to play Wednesday


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[KG_Wolves]

Jimmy to play Wednesday


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

YESSSSSSSSS

2nd seed here we come boys