Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[PerkinsFor3]

Glen probably told Jimmy- “I’ll make thibs trade you, but your value needs to increase. We got bad offers. I’m not going to trade you for offers that make the team worse off in the long run. It’s in everyone’s interest for you to play for the time being” Jimmy was probably “Fine. I appreciate your honesty papa Glen. I just want to get paid at the end of the season. I know this went bad for me and you.”

Thibs was in his office. Having survived this storm playing the situation perfectly for his needs. Not having listened to the media or any “hot take”.

Pretty much, although Thibs was not doing any trade discussions with any intent of actual doing a trade

I'm kinda thinking this also, I think he knows Butler will stay if Minnesota offers him the most money next year. I very well doubt he really thought Butler would go this far(and yeah, it's bad what Butler has done sitting out while having a contract he signed).

If Butler is moved, hopefully Minnesota gets a really good player for him, say Portland isn't doing well and finally decide that they need to change up the backcourt and offer a package built around McCollum for a package built around Butler. It would make Portland a very scary team then and give Minnesota a good outside shooting guard to team up with Towns and Wiggins. Not sure Taylor would want to let Butler stay in the division let alone in the same conference. I'm really surprise Charlotte didn't make an offer to team Walker up with Butler.

Dieng+Butler for Meyers Leonard+CJ

[shrink]

I dont think anything could happen that would make Butler happy here besides the team winning at a unrealistically high rate and or maybe them doing the crazy financial gymnastics to give him that super deal he wants. Best case is probably him upping his value so we can get a good trade which is a pretty good likelihood of happening IMO. The market will go up for him unless he looks like crap or gets hurt again which are also possibilities.

We’re all guessing at what’s in Jimmy’s head (maybe our biggest leap on these boards, ever?), but I feel like Jimmy would be happy if he believed he was going to get paid the 5-year deal at the end of the season, and the team gushed over him constantly.

Jimmy has said he feels disrespected and that he doesn’t trust management, which is understandable after the Bulls threatened to screw him over for his last contract. For Jimmy and many NBA players, respect is your paycheck, and it drives him crazy to see Wiggins and Towns sign bigger extensions than he’s playing under. I don’t know what Taylor or Thibs could say to Jimmy to get him to believe that 5-year deal is waiting for him, especially if he clings to that irrational view that the Wolves could renegotiate now without decimating the team.

However, I feel wherever Jimmy ends up, he is not going into free agency and sacrificing the 5-year, $190 .. even if that’s MIN.

[KG_Wolves]

I dont think anything could happen that would make Butler happy here besides the team winning at a unrealistically high rate and or maybe them doing the crazy financial gymnastics to give him that super deal he wants. Best case is probably him upping his value so we can get a good trade which is a pretty good likelihood of happening IMO. The market will go up for him unless he looks like crap or gets hurt again which are also possibilities.

We’re all guessing at what’s in Jimmy’s head (maybe our biggest leap on these boards, ever?), but I feel like Jimmy would be happy if he believed he was going to get paid the 5-year deal at the end of the season, and the team gushed over him constantly.

Jimmy has said he feels disrespected and that he doesn’t trust management, which is understandable after the Bulls threatened to screw him over for his last contract. For Jimmy and many NBA players, respect is your paycheck, and it drives him crazy to see Wiggins and Towns sign bigger extensions than he’s playing under. I don’t know what Taylor or Thibs could say to Jimmy to get him to believe that 5-year deal is waiting for him, especially if he clings to that irrational view that the Wolves could renegotiate now without decimating the team.

However, I feel wherever Jimmy ends up, he is not going into free agency and sacrificing the 5-year, $190 .. even if that’s MIN.

Honestly I don't think he cares about the team kissing up to him, this is all about cash.

Jimmy wants every penny of that 5 year max deal, and only we can offer it. Its that simple.

[breatnach]

Honestly I don't think he cares about the team kissing up to him, this is all about cash.

Jimmy wants every penny of that 5 year max deal, and only we can offer it. Its that simple.

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

[minimus]

Honestly I don't think he cares about the team kissing up to him, this is all about cash.

Jimmy wants every penny of that 5 year max deal, and only we can offer it. Its that simple.

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

First they need to kill Thibs, then they can trade for Butler.

[KG_Wolves]

Honestly I don't think he cares about the team kissing up to him, this is all about cash.

Jimmy wants every penny of that 5 year max deal, and only we can offer it. Its that simple.

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

Right, but Thibs is and was never dealing in good faith, as others around the league have reported.

He has no intention of trading Butler.

[shrink]

Honestly I don't think he cares about the team kissing up to him, this is all about cash.

Jimmy wants every penny of that 5 year max deal, and only we can offer it. Its that simple.

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

Right. Whoever trades for him gets his Bird rights, and can offer him the 5th year, whether they have cap space next season or not.

If MIN doesn’t kiss his ass, then he won’t believe we’ll offer the 5 year max, and he’ll continue to be a pain until he’s traded.

Taylor and Thibs need to pinkie-swear.

[KGdaBom]

Yeah, everything is fine when you listen that statements.

Going-ahead with this situation is just going to postpone the unavoidable fate, wich is Butler and Thibs going out.

The purifying of this franchise need to be done as soon as possible.

Yeah we need to be purified of the guys that got us our only winning season and playoff appearance of the last 14 years. How dare they do that.

[shrink]

Honestly I don't think he cares about the team kissing up to him, this is all about cash.

Jimmy wants every penny of that 5 year max deal, and only we can offer it. Its that simple.

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

Right, but Thibs is and was never dealing in good faith, as others around the league have reported.

He has no intention of trading Butler.

I know it’s being portrayed that way, but I don’t know if that’s true.

The MIA deal fell apart once we saw Waiters medical records. MIA media (MIN leaks nothing) likes to say, “Five yard line,” but deals occasionally fall apart once an expensive player’s medical info is released. Waiters is on a $36 million dollar deal, he has not played a single game of pre-season while he rehabs his ankle, and he’s not expected to be ready for the regular season. On top of this, he has not just gotten out of condition, but he showed up after this summer fat.

There is no reason to believe Waiters is healthy and the medical records could say that he’s never going to get there. With a three year deal with all that money, bad news on Waiters health could certainly have wrecked that deal. In fact, the rumor was that Thibs would still have done the deal with Waiters, if Riley had included another pick.

[KGdaBom]

Honestly I don't think he cares about the team kissing up to him, this is all about cash.

Jimmy wants every penny of that 5 year max deal, and only we can offer it. Its that simple.

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

Right, but Thibs is and was never dealing in good faith, as others around the league have reported.

He has no intention of trading Butler.

Thibs is absolutely dealing in good faith. If he got an offer commensurate with the value of a top ten NBA player he would accept it. I have zero doubt of this in my mind.

[KGdaBom]

Honestly I don't think he cares about the team kissing up to him, this is all about cash.

Jimmy wants every penny of that 5 year max deal, and only we can offer it. Its that simple.

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

Right. Whoever trades for him gets his Bird rights, and can offer him the 5th year, whether they have cap space next season or not.

If MIN doesn’t kiss his ass, then he won’t believe we’ll offer the 5 year max, and he’ll continue to be a pain until he’s traded.

Taylor and Thibs need to pinkie-swear.

Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. If the Wolves give any indication that they will max Butler next year they will be in violation of league rules and susceptible to massive penalties.

[Worm Guts]

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

Right. Whoever trades for him gets his Bird rights, and can offer him the 5th year, whether they have cap space next season or not.

If MIN doesn’t kiss his ass, then he won’t believe we’ll offer the 5 year max, and he’ll continue to be a pain until he’s traded.

Taylor and Thibs need to pinkie-swear.

Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. If the Wolves give any indication that they will max Butler next year they will be in violation of league rules and susceptible to massive penalties.

I've never heard of that being against the rules.

[KGdaBom]

Right. Whoever trades for him gets his Bird rights, and can offer him the 5th year, whether they have cap space next season or not.

If MIN doesn’t kiss his ass, then he won’t believe we’ll offer the 5 year max, and he’ll continue to be a pain until he’s traded.

Taylor and Thibs need to pinkie-swear.

Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. If the Wolves give any indication that they will max Butler next year they will be in violation of league rules and susceptible to massive penalties.

I've never heard of that being against the rules.

It's the same thing we did with Joe Smith except we put that in writing. It was talking about what we would do in a future contract.

I don't know if it's the same thing. We promised Joe when he was still a free agent. And putting it writing is probably the biggest reason we were penalized.

[shrink]

Or anyone who trades for him before the end of the season, right?

Right. Whoever trades for him gets his Bird rights, and can offer him the 5th year, whether they have cap space next season or not.

If MIN doesn’t kiss his ass, then he won’t believe we’ll offer the 5 year max, and he’ll continue to be a pain until he’s traded.

Taylor and Thibs need to pinkie-swear.

Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. If the Wolves give any indication that they will max Butler next year they will be in violation of league rules and susceptible to massive penalties.

I believe they can’t have an under-the-table formal contract. I believe they can say anything they want, since it’s not tampering if you have the player under contract with your own team.

[Klomp]

If Knicks aren't viewing Porzingis as an important enough member of the franchise to sign him to an extension, maybe they'd be willing to include him in a deal for Butler?

[minimus]

If Knicks aren't viewing Porzingis as an important enough member of the franchise to sign him to an extension, maybe they'd be willing to include him in a deal for Butler?

MIN: Porzingis, Kanter, Lee
NYK: Butler. Dieng


Twin towers in Twin cities!!!

[KGdaBom]

Right. Whoever trades for him gets his Bird rights, and can offer him the 5th year, whether they have cap space next season or not.

If MIN doesn’t kiss his ass, then he won’t believe we’ll offer the 5 year max, and he’ll continue to be a pain until he’s traded.

Taylor and Thibs need to pinkie-swear.

Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. If the Wolves give any indication that they will max Butler next year they will be in violation of league rules and susceptible to massive penalties.

I believe they can’t have an under-the-table formal contract. I believe they can say anything they want, since it’s not tampering if you have the player under contract with your own team.

However it's discussing a contract that Butler is not eligible for yet and when he is eligible he will be a free agent. Sure seems against the rules to me. We are all speculating so far. Does anybody know this?

[Worm Guts]

Somebody tell me if I'm wrong. If the Wolves give any indication that they will max Butler next year they will be in violation of league rules and susceptible to massive penalties.

I believe they can’t have an under-the-table formal contract. I believe they can say anything they want, since it’s not tampering if you have the player under contract with your own team.

However it's discussing a contract that Butler is not eligible for yet and when he is eligible he will be a free agent. Sure seems against the rules to me. We are all speculating so far. Does anybody know this?

Considering Butler is eligible for an extension, it wouldn’t seem to make sense that they couldn’t discuss the possibility of waiting until the end of the season so he could sign a bigger one. It would almost have to be part of the negotiation.

[KGdaBom]

I believe they can’t have an under-the-table formal contract. I believe they can say anything they want, since it’s not tampering if you have the player under contract with your own team.

However it's discussing a contract that Butler is not eligible for yet and when he is eligible he will be a free agent. Sure seems against the rules to me. We are all speculating so far. Does anybody know this?

Considering Butler is eligible for an extension, it wouldn’t seem to make sense that they couldn’t discuss the possibility of waiting until the end of the season so he could sign a bigger one. It would almost have to be part of the negotiation.

Yes he is eligible for an extension right now and we can talk with him about that extension. You notice how nobody has made a public comment about being willing to extend Butler next year? Not us or any other team. That is why I think it is not legal to do so. Sorry for nitpicking on this, but I would really love a definitive answer rather than speculation.

[Klomp]

Teams and players are not allowed to negotiate terms of a new contract (other than an extension) prior to the July 1 when the player becomes a free agent. Teams are required to notify the league office immediately upon reaching any verbal or written agreement with a player, and all contracts must be filed with the league office within 48 hours of signing. If a team makes an agreement with a player that is not reported to the league, the penalties can be even harsher than those described in question number 29. Such a violation is considered by the league to be among the most serious a team can commit. Again, the league will investigate any allegations of wrongdoing. A violation can result in a fine up to $6 million, forfeiture of draft picks, voiding the player's contract(s) (see question number 112), and/or the suspension for up to one year of any team personnel who were involved. In addition, the player himself can be fined up to $250,000, and prohibited from ever signing with that team.

This is what happened in 2000 with Joe Smith and the Minnesota Timberwolves. Smith left the Philadelphia 76ers in 1999 (following the lockout) to sign with the Timberwolves for their $1.75 million Mid-Level exception. They made an under-the-table agreement that Smith would play under three consecutive one-year contracts at below market value, and the Timberwolves would reward him by using their Bird rights to sign him to a huge contract beginning with the 2001-02 season. Unfortunately, they reduced this agreement to writing, and the written agreement eventually found its way into the league's hands.

It had long been rumored that such under-the-table agreements existed, but this was the first time the league had hard evidence in the form of a signed contract. The league responded by fining the team the maximum (at the time) $3.5 million, taking away their next five draft picks (two were later returned), and voiding Smith's then-current contract. Owner Glen Taylor and GM Kevin McHale also agreed to leaves of absence (in lieu of suspensions, at which time the fifth draft pick was returned). Most interestingly, the league also voided Smith's two previous, already-completed contracts. This essentially stripped the Timberwolves of any Bird rights to Smith, preventing them from re-signing Smith for any salary above the minimum (they had already used their other exceptions). Smith left Minnesota and signed with the Detroit Pistons, but returned to Minnesota in 2001.

Claims that a team violated the "Undisclosed Agreements" rule go before the league's system arbitrator, although the Commissioner has the authority to impose penalties of up to $250,000 without having the case heard by the arbitrator.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q30