Woj reports that Wiz trade Meeks, cash and future 2nd to Bucks

[daSwami]

$7 million in urinal cup-holder upgrades!!!

[Eli Babak]

He got relatively reasonable value getting out of the Nicholson deal, too.

I understand dumping ~20M in salary with just a first-round pick is kinda good, but on the other hand the team badly needs these bargain contracts and for example 4 years of Jarrett Allen costs only ~10M. Sigh... 2016 was a total disaster but Ernie's going nowhere.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I understand dumping ~20M in salary with just a first-round pick is kinda good, but on the other hand the team badly needs these bargain contracts and for example 4 years of Jarrett Allen costs only ~10M. Sigh... 2016 was a total disaster but Ernie's going nowhere.

Much like with Meeks, dumping Nicholson wasn't actually the problem; it was signing him in the first place. Free agency is where Ernie most routinely trips himself up, and it's extremely frustrating because Ernie intentionally leans more towards free agency and veterans, too. I mean, in dumping Meeks, I'm sure the Wizards could use another Satoransky at some point in the future, too.

[nate33]

Biggest thing is this needs to be a part of a bigger plan to get under tax.

Getting under the tax is all but impossible. We are $6.8M over the tax threshold, plus the cost of a minimum salary vet, so figure $8.3M.

Only 2 teams have the ability to absord that kind of salary without hitting the tax themselves. Sacramento has $11M in raw cap room. And Chicago has Mirotic's $8.9M TPE and also has the luxtax room to absorb that much salary.

I don't see either team absorbing that kind of salary without a big incentive.

FWIW, it looks EG managed to convince one of only 4 teams out there with either cap room or a TPE plus luxtax room big enough to absorb Meeks' salary. (Denver is the fourth team, they have a bunch of TPE's and roughly $6M in luxtax room.)

[pcbothwel]

Biggest thing is this needs to be a part of a bigger plan to get under tax.

Getting under the tax is all but impossible. We are $6.8M over the tax threshold, plus the cost of a minimum salary vet, so figure $8.3M.

Only 2 teams have the ability to absord that kind of salary without hitting the tax themselves. Sacramento has $11M in raw cap room. And Chicago has Mirotic's $8.9M TPE and also has the luxtax room to absorb that much salary.

I don't see either team absorbing that kind of salary without a big incentive.

FWIW, it looks EG managed to convince one of only 4 teams out there with either cap room or a TPE plus luxtax room big enough to absorb Meeks' salary. (Denver is the fourth team, they have a bunch of TPE's and roughly $6M in luxtax room.)

1) Bulls renounced TPE to sign Parker
2) I'm aware that the Kings are the only ones, but no team is going to pay a premium to dump salary unless they are DEEP in the tax or Repeat offenders.

I've mentioned this before because people say "Yeah, but the Kings have 29 other suitors". Not true. Sure, plenty of teams would like to dump salary for free or some future 2nd. But look at all the teams and try to imagine who would actually pay the Kings a 1st for that space?
Looking at the teams in the tax:
GSW: No way they dump salary... they're on another level and striving for GOAT status.
Hou: Under GSW, but again, they only have Knight as a bad contract and not sure they pay the price to move him
OKC: They dont have any picks to trade, and doubt they would trade a 1st to move someone like Abrines
Raps: Traded 1st for Leonard and are making a run this year... Again, doubt it

So its Us, Blazers, and Heat.
I dont see it from the Heat with Riley at the helm. They need an AS caliber player in that roster and quick. They'll save their powder to make a Butler-type move.

PDX is a wild card with Allens death and could easily see them doing it to cut cost. That said, they also appear in line for a rebuild.
I think Utah, OKC, and LAL all passing them in the West. Remember, they were 3rd in the West last year with 49 wins. Denver missed the Playoffs with 47... Esshhh

I think by the deadline they look to trade CJ for filler and picks as part of reboot around Lillard.

TL;DR
- We are really the best match with the Kings and I see a deal there should we be interested.

[nate33]

1) Bulls renounced TPE to sign Parker

I didn't think you had to renounce TPE's to make cap room. Only the MLE and BAE.

The website I'm looking at shows the Bulls with an $8.99M exception for Mirotic. It also shows Parker's salary on the books.

2) I'm aware that the Kings are the only ones, but no team is going to pay a premium to dump salary unless they are DEEP in the tax or Repeat offenders.

I've mentioned this before because people say "Yeah, but the Kings have 29 other suitors". Not true. Sure, plenty of teams would like to dump salary for free or some future 2nd. But look at all the teams and try to imagine who would actually pay the Kings a 1st for that space?
Looking at the teams in the tax:
GSW: No way they dump salary... they're on another level and striving for GOAT status.
Hou: Under GSW, but again, they only have Knight as a bad contract and not sure they pay the price to move him
OKC: They dont have any picks to trade, and doubt they would trade a 1st to move someone like Abrines
Raps: Traded 1st for Leonard and are making a run this year... Again, doubt it

So its Us, Blazers, and Heat.
I dont see it from the Heat with Riley at the helm. They need an AS caliber player in that roster and quick. They'll save their powder to make a Butler-type move.

PDX is a wild card with Allens death and could easily see them doing it to cut cost. That said, they also appear in line for a rebuild.
I think Utah, OKC, and LAL all passing them in the West. Remember, they were 3rd in the West last year with 49 wins. Denver missed the Playoffs with 47... Esshhh

I think by the deadline they look to trade CJ for filler and picks as part of reboot around Lillard.

TL;DR
- We are really the best match with the Kings and I see a deal there should we be interested.

It's a bidding war. I think there are enough teams bidding to dump salary that we are not going to like what we have to pay to make it happen.

I think the last realistic move to make is to stretch Jason Smith. His $5.45M salary would drop down to $1.82M, saving $3.63 off our cap. Unfortunately, we'd have to turn around and add a minimum salary vet for $838,000, making the net savings more like 2.8M. But we'd then save the luxtax costs of an additional $7.7M.

Therefore, stretching Smith saves $10.5M this year, but we would be saddled with $1.82M in phantom salary in each of the next two season.

[JAR69]

I think the last realistic move to make is to stretch Jason Smith. His $5.45M salary would drop down to $1.82M, saving $3.63 off our cap. Unfortunately, we'd have to turn around and add a minimum salary vet for $838,000, making the net savings more like 2.8M. But we'd then save the luxtax costs of an additional $7.7M.

Therefore, stretching Smith saves $10.5M this year, but we would be saddled with $1.82M in phantom salary in each of the next two season.

I think if we cut and stretch Smith at this point, we still pay his full salary this year. Coon FAQ #64:

Individually negotiated revisions to the payment schedule are not allowed. For contracts for with more than $250,000 of remaining guaranteed salary, the guaranteed salary for the remaining seasons is "stretched" and paid in equal amounts over a greater time span, as follows:

If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.

If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year.

[JAR69]

I think the last realistic move to make is to stretch Jason Smith. His $5.45M salary would drop down to $1.82M, saving $3.63 off our cap. Unfortunately, we'd have to turn around and add a minimum salary vet for $838,000, making the net savings more like 2.8M. But we'd then save the luxtax costs of an additional $7.7M.

Therefore, stretching Smith saves $10.5M this year, but we would be saddled with $1.82M in phantom salary in each of the next two season.

I think if we cut and stretch Smith at this point, we still pay his full salary this year. Coon FAQ #64:

Individually negotiated revisions to the payment schedule are not allowed. For contracts for with more than $250,000 of remaining guaranteed salary, the guaranteed salary for the remaining seasons is "stretched" and paid in equal amounts over a greater time span, as follows:

If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.

If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year.

Sorry, I cut out the footnote at the end of this section, which adds:

3 Therefore the effective deadline for stretching the salary of a player with one season remaining on his contract is August 31. If the player is waived after this date, his one remaining season will continue to be paid (and charged to the cap) normally.

[pcbothwel]

1) Bulls renounced TPE to sign Parker

I didn't think you had to renounce TPE's to make cap room. Only the MLE and BAE.

The website I'm looking at shows the Bulls with an $8.99M exception for Mirotic. It also shows Parker's salary on the books.

2) I'm aware that the Kings are the only ones, but no team is going to pay a premium to dump salary unless they are DEEP in the tax or Repeat offenders.

I've mentioned this before because people say "Yeah, but the Kings have 29 other suitors". Not true. Sure, plenty of teams would like to dump salary for free or some future 2nd. But look at all the teams and try to imagine who would actually pay the Kings a 1st for that space?
Looking at the teams in the tax:
GSW: No way they dump salary... they're on another level and striving for GOAT status.
Hou: Under GSW, but again, they only have Knight as a bad contract and not sure they pay the price to move him
OKC: They dont have any picks to trade, and doubt they would trade a 1st to move someone like Abrines
Raps: Traded 1st for Leonard and are making a run this year... Again, doubt it

So its Us, Blazers, and Heat.
I dont see it from the Heat with Riley at the helm. They need an AS caliber player in that roster and quick. They'll save their powder to make a Butler-type move.

PDX is a wild card with Allens death and could easily see them doing it to cut cost. That said, they also appear in line for a rebuild.
I think Utah, OKC, and LAL all passing them in the West. Remember, they were 3rd in the West last year with 49 wins. Denver missed the Playoffs with 47... Esshhh

I think by the deadline they look to trade CJ for filler and picks as part of reboot around Lillard.

TL;DR
- We are really the best match with the Kings and I see a deal there should we be interested.

It's a bidding war. I think there are enough teams bidding to dump salary that we are not going to like what we have to pay to make it happen.

I think the last realistic move to make is to stretch Jason Smith. His $5.45M salary would drop down to $1.82M, saving $3.63 off our cap. Unfortunately, we'd have to turn around and add a minimum salary vet for $838,000, making the net savings more like 2.8M. But we'd then save the luxtax costs of an additional $7.7M.

Therefore, stretching Smith saves $10.5M this year, but we would be saddled with $1.82M in phantom salary in each of the next two season.

Nate.
1) Your site is wrong. Bulls do not have any TPE. They recinded them to bring back Lavine and sign Parker.
2) The stretch deadline has passed (9/1), and cannot be used for this years salary.

Again, you're not showing me any market for the Kings cap space. Show me one team willing to offer a top 25 pick... No team under the tax will do it, Obviously.
I listed the teams over the cap. I stated PDX and us...but thats it

[trast66]

We are the best match for Sac, with Portland and Miami right behind. Though I would not count out Houston somehow being involved with Sac in a deal. But a lot can change before the trade deadline. Sac will get an established player or a protected R1 pick from that space, or just do nothing. With Allen's death probably less likely Portland makes a deal.

Incredible that either Boston or Philly gets that pick. Eventually those two are going to have to shed some salary.

[pcbothwel]

^^^ Doesnt make sense for Houston. Maybe next year or so, but they are making a run this year and probably even more so next year. They need that pick to attached to salary to get another player like Butler. its the same issue as Miami.

[Rafael122]

Biggest thing is this needs to be a part of a bigger plan to get under tax.

Getting under the tax is all but impossible. We are $6.8M over the tax threshold, plus the cost of a minimum salary vet, so figure $8.3M.

Only 2 teams have the ability to absord that kind of salary without hitting the tax themselves. Sacramento has $11M in raw cap room. And Chicago has Mirotic's $8.9M TPE and also has the luxtax room to absorb that much salary.

I don't see either team absorbing that kind of salary without a big incentive.

FWIW, it looks EG managed to convince one of only 4 teams out there with either cap room or a TPE plus luxtax room big enough to absorb Meeks' salary. (Denver is the fourth team, they have a bunch of TPE's and roughly $6M in luxtax room.)

Couldn't we trade Mahinmi and a protected first for Koufos? That puts us under the tax at that point right?

Or in lieu of that, we trade Oubre with Mahinmi. I do think Oubre is trade bait.

[payitforward]

I can't believe anyone thinks this was an ok trade. Takes me back to the Nicholson trade, which so many people thought was terrific as well.

I'm just curious: has anyone here actually ever run a business? We just got the value of 1119 minutes of Jodie Meeks for a cost of $7m plus an unprotected R2 pick.

Praising Ernie for this move is like praising someone for p#ssing in the soup, b/c at least he didn't sh&t in it.

[nate33]

I can't believe anyone thinks this was an ok trade. Takes me back to the Nicholson trade, which so many people thought was terrific as well.

I'm just curious: has anyone here actually ever run a business? We just got the value of 1119 minutes of Jodie Meeks for a cost of $7m plus an unprotected R2 pick.

Praising Ernie for this move is like praising someone for p#ssing in the soup, b/c at least he didn't sh&t in it.

I can't believe you are unable to make the distinction between this trade and the Meeks acquisition. Obviously, viewed holistically as a single transaction, it's a horrible deal.

But sacrificing a 2nd round pick to save $7M is totally understandable. If nothing else, I'm pretty sure we can buy a 2nd round pick in some future draft at a lower price tag than that.

[payitforward]

Well... sure, fair enough.

The problem is the repeated, reactive, short-term actions taken by Ernie. Each one of them incurs a cost later on.

I can't say what the cost of this one will be, but there will be a cost. There always is. & this move itself is our payment for a previous one.

& that is why I objected to calling it a "good move:"

...Hell no, this is not a "good move." A good move is to avoid paying $7m & a R2 pick for 1119 minutes from Jodie Meeks....

& why I asked whether anybody here actually runs a business. Moves of this kind, which can be made to look "good" by selecting a narrow patch from it & focusing on that patch, are a well-known recipe for running a business into the ground.

Now... the NBA, which is socialism for the owners (bet you never thought you'd see me write something like that, huh? ), lowers the costs of this kind of thing. All that happens is that your team is forever capped at mediocre; you don't actually lose $$.

It appears to be impossible to lose money with an NBA team. So, ok, it's not like shooting your own toes off to demonstrate how tough you are (like, for example, tariffs... ).

[Dante80]

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[Ruzious]

I think the last realistic move to make is to stretch Jason Smith. His $5.45M salary would drop down to $1.82M, saving $3.63 off our cap. Unfortunately, we'd have to turn around and add a minimum salary vet for $838,000, making the net savings more like 2.8M. But we'd then save the luxtax costs of an additional $7.7M.

Therefore, stretching Smith saves $10.5M this year, but we would be saddled with $1.82M in phantom salary in each of the next two season.

I think if we cut and stretch Smith at this point, we still pay his full salary this year. Coon FAQ #64:

Individually negotiated revisions to the payment schedule are not allowed. For contracts for with more than $250,000 of remaining guaranteed salary, the guaranteed salary for the remaining seasons is "stretched" and paid in equal amounts over a greater time span, as follows:

If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.

If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year.

Interesting. I was under the impression that there was no stretching permitted after August 31st.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Interesting. I was under the impression that there was no stretching permitted after August 31st.

Really, though, it's all but pointless to do it after that point. You can't stretch an expiring contract after that point and no team gains potential financial flexibility making such a move until the next offseason, so most teams are just going to wait on the decision until it actually changes things for them in the hopes they find a trade that's better than stretching the player in the meantime. If it's ever used, it's going to be extremely rare.