Political Roundtable Part XXIII

[stilldropin20]

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Gotta talk about the Clinton Foundation tho

Wait. you guys are over the russians? so soon?

[stilldropin20]

I have been pretty busy at work lately and haven't followed this story all that deeply.

I'm not trying to be provocative here and fully admit that I may be grossly misinformed on the matter. Am I correct in understanding that Jamal Khashoggi is a Saudi-born Saudi citizen with a long history of criticizing the Saudi government? He has been fired from multiple state run newspapers. In 2017, he characterized the Saudi government as "forcing him to shut up" and he later fled the country because he believed his situation was growing "more precarious each day". He ultimately disappeared while on Saudi Arabian soil in a Saudi consulate in Turkey.

Obviously, we as a free society don't condone the silencing and murder of journalists, but authoritarian regimes do this stuff all the time. I'm sure China has killed or imprisoned journalists for speaking out yet we still maintain relations with them and don't interfere in their internal affairs. We look the other way in all kinds of shady stuff that our Middle Eastern "allies" do to their own citizens. What exactly makes this different?

Is it because he now works for the Washington Post? Is that the deal? If you are a dissident journalist in an authoritarian country, all it takes is for you to land a job with a U.S. corporation for a year or so and suddenly you get the full protection of the U.S. government? Effectively, whomever does the hiring at the Washington Post has tremendous influence over our foreign policy. Is this what we want? The Washington Post can suck us into economic sanctions, a trade war, or outright open conflict by hiring the wrong guy?

The nuance behind Khashoggi's relationship with KSA or the US doesn't really matter that much to me when I already don't support the US-KSA relationship as it stands. If KSA is murdering dissidents and doing things that don't align with our values as a nation, we shouldn't be doing business with them, and this goes against the foreign policy establishment of both parties, as you know.

Things aren't black and white, and I'm sure there are plenty of hypocrisies and inconsistencies in any hardline foreign policy position, but I really don't see how the American people benefit from the existing quasi-alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia.

I don't really disagree much with what you just said. I'm totally in favor of re-assessing our relationship with Saudi Arabia in general. I'm just saying I don't see why the Khashoggi story is such a big deal. It seems pretty routine to me.

As far as our relationship with Saudi Arabia, I thought it was pretty well understood that Israel has formed an alliance with the Sunni in opposition to the Shia. And because Israel backs the Sunni, America backs the Sunni. I'd be happy backing out of the Middle East altogether and let them figure it out themselves - particularly now that we are self-sufficient in energy production. But there are a lot of financial interests (military-industrial complex, Israel lobby) that are vested in the status quo.

i am 100% in favor of backing away completely. massive war will ensue and they will all pay massive amounts for our war products...after they beat the hell out of each other and raid each other's castles we can come in and pick winners at the end and to the highest bidder. And I'm talking at least 5 trillion. You want your oil? you want your land? you want your kingdom? and you want the other side's oil and land too?? and you want us to help you with that? Then you must take on $5 trillion of our debt! We the tax payers pay for our military every time we get paid...we must make them pay us back for the use of said military and for our protection!!or we are helping the other side...or maybe we just step in and crush you both at the end?...in the name of "stabilizing the globe and bringing peace to the middle east"...we occupy the whole region for a 100 years and tax the crap out of the oil. maybe we even bring democracy. Maybe not. I dont really care. Either way...we make em pay.

Thats how we could pay down some debt! And Dont laugh nor rule it out. That was the play in both ww1 and ww2. Let the middle eastern elites scatter their money and gold all over the globe and sanction the hell out of it...and then offer to store their wealth in our banking systems in our markets...and charge their azzes a high premium!!! At least 40%.

[stilldropin20]

ACA has a larger issue. It kills any possibility of a young entrepreneur from a poor background taking a chance on a company/idea.

It was relatively low health costs, that allowed you to take that opportunities. The dramatic rise happened before ACA and continued during ACA, but is not caused by ACA.

A fixed ACA would separate employment from health care - which should encourage risk taking. One thing is an early start-up can often lower income which would make the subsidies come in to play.

that's one take. a weak take. how about this. Over saturation of immigration and an overzealous working visa system has allowed has made employees fight for jobs. Instead we could decrease immigration and decrease our working visa systems which would decrease the employee talent pool and make employers fight over employees to fill their labor force.

which would make wages rise. and eventually force employers to offer more benefits like healthcare....you know...like basically what happened in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Unions formed. Labor organized and bargained for better wages and better benefits. We could easily get back to that by minimizing immigration and working visas which would force employers to compete with each other over labor instead of the other way around.

I will know the dems are serious about increasing wages the day they decrease immigration...especially illegal immigration which should be a no brainer. This is why being a democrat is counter intuitive if you are poor. Dems are doing nothing for the poor at all. NOTHING!!! They are in fact hurting the poor and making it harder to find gainful employment by over saturating our unskilled labor force with immigrants...especially illegal immigrants. Crack down on illegal immigration and minimize legal working visas and you will see wages sky rocket!! basic laws of supply and demand.

Additionally...not only do globalist dems and even some globalist R's want the cheap labor to pour in but they also make it easy for foreign and global corporations to trade with us. Huge mistake. keep tariffs high! Make foreigner corps pay to trade with us so as to keep foreign goods more expensive.

i said this 2 years ago and i say it again today...if you liberal want to help your neighbor so damn much??? if that is what you want??? then pay more for your gotdamn TV and you effing car!!! Dont give your neighbor "free stuff." Give him or her dignity and self respect of a good paying job by buying american goods!! and force you politicians to limit immigration and tariff goods overseas.

^^^^thats the pathway to sustained real american economic success for all americans!!! limit immigration to keep up with demand. dont over saturate any given labor pool.

[stilldropin20]

Both sides want it both ways. Querid pointed one side, the other side is my body my choice, government should stay out, but they have no problem going to government funded facilities for any issues with their body.

That's a gross misrepresentation. The pro-choice movement is simply that, pro-choice.

The other side is anti-choice, while actively undermining programs that would actually reduce the number of abortions that they purport to care so much about.

Studies have shown time and time again that abortions positively correlate with socioeconomic standing, education level and unintended pregnancies.

It stands to reason that if you actually cared about reducing the rate of "baby killing", letting go of your binary world view to embrace policies that empower and educate people would be far more effective than moral posturing.

Has someone has said pro choice is not pro abortion. It’s giving women agency to make her own decisions about her body. Think about it, we can’t just harvest organs from dead people without their consent despite the fact that this will most definitely save lives and prolonged lives. Think about it, according to a pro lifer a dead person has more autonomy over their body than a living woman.

This is because the pro life movement has been turned into an ideology that’s more about punishing and controlling women. Or else they’d be advocating for family planning, sex education, single payer healthcare, childcare, mat leave etc. The least they could do is drop the pretense.

exactly! even a dead person has rights.....think about that!! If a dead person has rights....So should a 5 month old fetus. A woman has almost complete autonomy over her body...until she is carrying another human body...that human she is carrying must be accounted for....that little human at some point has those same full rights too. just like......even....... a dead person has rights. For me that time frame of becoming "human" is around 18-20 weeks. Nothing will ever change my mind on that...and science will only shorten this time frame.


look, i can do whatever i want with my body right now..."complete autoonomy," right? until what i do to my body infringes upon the rights of my neighbor.

it's so odd to me....that liberals...of all fricking political groups....fight so hard for the "rights of the marginalized" individual but dont care at all about the rights fetus in the womb. A little pwerless baby with no voice...isn't that who the liberals claim to stand for? To speak for? The little guy? The weak? the powerless? I thought that was the whole point of being a liberal??

or is that not what being a liberal is about at all? And in fact perhaps being a liberal is really about being selfish! Not taking responsibility for ones actions! Begging for free stuff!! why work! when the jerks that work can just pay more taxes!! or wait...we can borrow away!! so our grandchildren can pay our billz!! Gotta have that new TV and New Iphone...get me some free health care too on the backs of those that want to work and our grand childrens taxes!! !! Manufacture stuff overseas!! so it will be cheaper!! I just want to "get mine" and get it cheap!!

oh libs. you're so lost.

[queridiculo]

Well well, so much for the tax giveaway paying for itself right?

Shocking, did not see that coming..

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Tuesday called the ballooning budget deficit “very disturbing” but said large federal spending programs were to blame, dismissing criticism that last year’s GOP tax cuts are saddling the country with more debt.
...
Higher spending and stagnating tax revenue pushed the nation’s debt burden higher, the White House said. Business tax revenue fell sharply in the first nine months of this year because tax rates were cut under last year’s law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/mcconnell-calls-deficit-very-disturbing-blames-federal-spending-dismisses-criticism-of-tax-cut/2018/10/16/

[Wizardspride]

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?s=19

i told you guys entitle reform was next 2 years ago!!! SD20 has kept you informed!!!.

So you're saying Trump will go back on his campaign promise cause that sure isn't what he ran on.

[montestewart]

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?s=19

i told you guys entitle reform was next 2 years ago!!! SD20 has kept you informed!!!.

So you're saying Trump will go back on his campaign promise cause that sure isn't what he ran on.

Trump lies to his cat. He lies about the size of his dumps. In the elevator, he lies about what floor they're on. He lies about what the air smells like. When talking to himself, he lies and pretends to believe it, pretending it's a rally. Even his dreams are lies, which is why he never sleeps. Even his burps are lies.

STD's predictions are the reason I still think he's hands. If the earth was hit by a previously undetected giant ball of green Jello, STD predicted it. A regular Moistradamus he is.

[verbal8]

Thanks Mitch for mobilizing our base and convincing moderates to vote blue.

I wonder if this is calculated to actually make the Republicans do worse in House races, but give them a better chance of holding the Senate.

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?s=19

[verbal8]

i told you guys entitle reform was next 2 years ago!!! SD20 has kept you informed!!!.

So you're saying Trump will go back on his campaign promise cause that sure isn't what he ran on.

Trump lies to his cat.

He lies about having a cat. But he would lie to it, if he did have one.

[verbal8]

ACA has a larger issue. It kills any possibility of a young entrepreneur from a poor background taking a chance on a company/idea.

It was relatively low health costs, that allowed you to take that opportunities. The dramatic rise happened before ACA and continued during ACA, but is not caused by ACA.

A fixed ACA would separate employment from health care - which should encourage risk taking. One thing is an early start-up can often lower income which would make the subsidies come in to play.

that's one take. a weak take.

how is it a weak take?

how about this. Immigration - blah, blah, blah

liberals blah, blah, blah

BTW, I am almost certain immigration and/or outsourcing played a significant role in Induveca's business.

[Induveca]

It was relatively low health costs, that allowed you to take that opportunities. The dramatic rise happened before ACA and continued during ACA, but is not caused by ACA.

A fixed ACA would separate employment from health care - which should encourage risk taking. One thing is an early start-up can often lower income which would make the subsidies come in to play.

that's one take. a weak take.

how is it a weak take?

how about this. Immigration - blah, blah, blah

liberals blah, blah, blah

BTW, I am almost certain immigration and/or outsourcing played a significant role in Induveca's business.

Well at this point I live in Hong Kong so I’ve outsourced myself.

I created hundreds of jobs in DC and NYC when I was younger and 5-6 of those guys have spun off a few of ventures resulting in thousands of jobs in nyc and sf. Considering I was a 20-something entrepreneur who never slept unless it was in my office, I’m content with that period.

Now after that company sold, I 100% outsource work if I have an idea for an new company. I even outsourced myself. I have lived in 6-7 countries over the past decade+. But keep running/selling new companies, and hiring contractors depending on my location.

[Pointgod]

Thanks Mitch for mobilizing our base and convincing moderates to vote blue.

I wonder if this is calculated to actually make the Republicans do worse in House races, but give them a better chance of holding the Senate.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Democrats and Independents have every single reason to turn up and vote these **** out of office. Old, young, every race, rich, poor, men women all religions. Somehow Democrats are still behind in key battleground states. It makes no sense unless it’s just simply a numbers issue in red states.

[daoneandonly]

That's a gross misrepresentation. The pro-choice movement is simply that, pro-choice.

The other side is anti-choice, while actively undermining programs that would actually reduce the number of abortions that they purport to care so much about.

Studies have shown time and time again that abortions positively correlate with socioeconomic standing, education level and unintended pregnancies.

It stands to reason that if you actually cared about reducing the rate of "baby killing", letting go of your binary world view to embrace policies that empower and educate people would be far more effective than moral posturing.

Has someone has said pro choice is not pro abortion. It’s giving women agency to make her own decisions about her body. Think about it, we can’t just harvest organs from dead people without their consent despite the fact that this will most definitely save lives and prolonged lives. Think about it, according to a pro lifer a dead person has more autonomy over their body than a living woman.

This is because the pro life movement has been turned into an ideology that’s more about punishing and controlling women. Or else they’d be advocating for family planning, sex education, single payer healthcare, childcare, mat leave etc. The least they could do is drop the pretense.

exactly! even a dead person has rights.....think about that!! If a dead person has rights....So should a 5 month old fetus. A woman has almost complete autonomy over her body...until she is carrying another human body...that human she is carrying must be accounted for....that little human at some point has those same full rights too. just like......even....... a dead person has rights. For me that time frame of becoming "human" is around 18-20 weeks. Nothing will ever change my mind on that...and science will only shorten this time frame.


look, i can do whatever i want with my body right now..."complete autoonomy," right? until what i do to my body infringes upon the rights of my neighbor.

it's so odd to me....that liberals...of all fricking political groups....fight so hard for the "rights of the marginalized" individual but dont care at all about the rights fetus in the womb. A little pwerless baby with no voice...isn't that who the liberals claim to stand for? To speak for? The little guy? The weak? the powerless? I thought that was the whole point of being a liberal??

or is that not what being a liberal is about at all? And in fact perhaps being a liberal is really about being selfish! Not taking responsibility for ones actions! Begging for free stuff!! why work! when the jerks that work can just pay more taxes!! or wait...we can borrow away!! so our grandchildren can pay our billz!! Gotta have that new TV and New Iphone...get me some free health care too on the backs of those that want to work and our grand childrens taxes!! !! Manufacture stuff overseas!! so it will be cheaper!! I just want to "get mine" and get it cheap!!

oh libs. you're so lost.

Animals have more rights than babies, it's quite sad. Funny how one side is so adamant about climate change and how it impacts stuff like polar bears, ready to stone Michael Vick for hsi dog fighting involvement, how pollution affects the little fishies of the world, but a baby is just something that can be discarded without a second thought. I guess when it comes to being accountable and owning up to your responsibilities, that's where the line in the sand is drawn

[daoneandonly]

Thanks Mitch for mobilizing our base and convincing moderates to vote blue.

I wonder if this is calculated to actually make the Republicans do worse in House races, but give them a better chance of holding the Senate.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Democrats and Independents have every single reason to turn up and vote these **** out of office. Old, young, every race, rich, poor, men women all religions. Somehow Democrats are still behind in key battleground states. It makes no sense unless it’s just simply a numbers issue in red states.

Or maybe people who understand reality take anything Rachel maddow and the ultra left leaning MSNBC with a grain of salt

[Pointgod]

Has someone has said pro choice is not pro abortion. It’s giving women agency to make her own decisions about her body. Think about it, we can’t just harvest organs from dead people without their consent despite the fact that this will most definitely save lives and prolonged lives. Think about it, according to a pro lifer a dead person has more autonomy over their body than a living woman.

This is because the pro life movement has been turned into an ideology that’s more about punishing and controlling women. Or else they’d be advocating for family planning, sex education, single payer healthcare, childcare, mat leave etc. The least they could do is drop the pretense.

exactly! even a dead person has rights.....think about that!! If a dead person has rights....So should a 5 month old fetus. A woman has almost complete autonomy over her body...until she is carrying another human body...that human she is carrying must be accounted for....that little human at some point has those same full rights too. just like......even....... a dead person has rights. For me that time frame of becoming "human" is around 18-20 weeks. Nothing will ever change my mind on that...and science will only shorten this time frame.


look, i can do whatever i want with my body right now..."complete autoonomy," right? until what i do to my body infringes upon the rights of my neighbor.

it's so odd to me....that liberals...of all fricking political groups....fight so hard for the "rights of the marginalized" individual but dont care at all about the rights fetus in the womb. A little pwerless baby with no voice...isn't that who the liberals claim to stand for? To speak for? The little guy? The weak? the powerless? I thought that was the whole point of being a liberal??

or is that not what being a liberal is about at all? And in fact perhaps being a liberal is really about being selfish! Not taking responsibility for ones actions! Begging for free stuff!! why work! when the jerks that work can just pay more taxes!! or wait...we can borrow away!! so our grandchildren can pay our billz!! Gotta have that new TV and New Iphone...get me some free health care too on the backs of those that want to work and our grand childrens taxes!! !! Manufacture stuff overseas!! so it will be cheaper!! I just want to "get mine" and get it cheap!!

oh libs. you're so lost.

Animals have more rights than babies, it's quite sad. Funny how one side is so adamant about climate change and how it impacts stuff like polar bears, ready to stone Michael Vick for hsi dog fighting involvement, how pollution affects the little fishies of the world, but a baby is just something that can be discarded without a second thought. I guess when it comes to being accountable and owning up to your responsibilities, that's where the line in the sand is drawn

Animals, dead people and non existent humans have more rights than human women. Nice to know where you stand. Lmao about Republicans talking about personal responsibility.

[Pointgod]

Thanks Mitch for mobilizing our base and convincing moderates to vote blue.

I wonder if this is calculated to actually make the Republicans do worse in House races, but give them a better chance of holding the Senate.

Democrats and Independents have every single reason to turn up and vote these **** out of office. Old, young, every race, rich, poor, men women all religions. Somehow Democrats are still behind in key battleground states. It makes no sense unless it’s just simply a numbers issue in red states.

Or maybe people who understand reality take anything Rachel maddow and the ultra left leaning MSNBC with a grain of salt

Yikes. The detachment from reality that it takes to believe MSNBC is some far left news organization. The reality on the ground and actual polling doesn’t even remotely support the idea that the majority of Americans follow Republican ideology

[daoneandonly]

exactly! even a dead person has rights.....think about that!! If a dead person has rights....So should a 5 month old fetus. A woman has almost complete autonomy over her body...until she is carrying another human body...that human she is carrying must be accounted for....that little human at some point has those same full rights too. just like......even....... a dead person has rights. For me that time frame of becoming "human" is around 18-20 weeks. Nothing will ever change my mind on that...and science will only shorten this time frame.


look, i can do whatever i want with my body right now..."complete autoonomy," right? until what i do to my body infringes upon the rights of my neighbor.

it's so odd to me....that liberals...of all fricking political groups....fight so hard for the "rights of the marginalized" individual but dont care at all about the rights fetus in the womb. A little pwerless baby with no voice...isn't that who the liberals claim to stand for? To speak for? The little guy? The weak? the powerless? I thought that was the whole point of being a liberal??

or is that not what being a liberal is about at all? And in fact perhaps being a liberal is really about being selfish! Not taking responsibility for ones actions! Begging for free stuff!! why work! when the jerks that work can just pay more taxes!! or wait...we can borrow away!! so our grandchildren can pay our billz!! Gotta have that new TV and New Iphone...get me some free health care too on the backs of those that want to work and our grand childrens taxes!! !! Manufacture stuff overseas!! so it will be cheaper!! I just want to "get mine" and get it cheap!!

oh libs. you're so lost.

Animals have more rights than babies, it's quite sad. Funny how one side is so adamant about climate change and how it impacts stuff like polar bears, ready to stone Michael Vick for hsi dog fighting involvement, how pollution affects the little fishies of the world, but a baby is just something that can be discarded without a second thought. I guess when it comes to being accountable and owning up to your responsibilities, that's where the line in the sand is drawn

Animals, dead people and non existent humans have more rights than human women. Nice to know where you stand. Lmao about Republicans talking about personal responsibility.

You can keep spewing non existent human all you like, if that's your excuse for supporting decimating a child with a scapal, that's you. I don't subscribe to that theory, the women you are so passionately defending killed their child because they did not want to bear the responsibility of carrying them for 9 moths, probably interferes with their social life too much. But sure, we'll continue to pay for them to go to PP for their health concerns and take a bigger hit on our employer funded health insurance for the Dems to have more affordable coverage through ACA

[verbal8]

Thanks Mitch for mobilizing our base and convincing moderates to vote blue.

I wonder if this is calculated to actually make the Republicans do worse in House races, but give them a better chance of holding the Senate.

Democrats and Independents have every single reason to turn up and vote these **** out of office. Old, young, every race, rich, poor, men women all religions. Somehow Democrats are still behind in key battleground states. It makes no sense unless it’s just simply a numbers issue in red states.

Or maybe people who understand reality take anything Rachel maddow and the ultra left leaning MSNBC with a grain of salt

It is fair to say that Rachel Maddow is left-wing. However that doesn't mean what she says/presents in untrue.

Where her political orientation comes into play is the topics that she chooses. The voter suppression in GA is an issue of great concern to Democrats. She has covered it extensively recently, even the skeptic in me is pretty convinced what she is presenting is factual(and very unfortunate). She may speculate some on motives, but there hasn't been any actions by Brian Kemp that would indicate his motives are anything other than partisan.

This is vastly different than Fox&Friends/Hannity/Ingraham parroting Trump talking points whether they are true or not.

[daoneandonly]

Democrats and Independents have every single reason to turn up and vote these **** out of office. Old, young, every race, rich, poor, men women all religions. Somehow Democrats are still behind in key battleground states. It makes no sense unless it’s just simply a numbers issue in red states.

Or maybe people who understand reality take anything Rachel maddow and the ultra left leaning MSNBC with a grain of salt

It is fair to say that Rachel Maddow is left-wing. However that doesn't mean what she says/presents in untrue.

Where her political orientation comes into play is the topics that she chooses. The voter suppression in GA is an issue of great concern to Democrats. She has covered it extensively recently, even the skeptic in me is pretty convinced what she is presenting is factual(and very unfortunate). She may speculate some on motives, but there hasn't been any actions by Brian Kemp that would indicate his motives are anything other than partisan.

This is vastly different than Fox&Friends/Hannity/Ingraham parroting Trump talking points whether they are true or not.

Would you mind highlighting the points you are aware of regarding the GA voter suppression? A few bullet points would be great as I've heard different things, but only long winded articles I'd rather not spend too much time reading.

[verbal8]

Or maybe people who understand reality take anything Rachel maddow and the ultra left leaning MSNBC with a grain of salt

It is fair to say that Rachel Maddow is left-wing. However that doesn't mean what she says/presents in untrue.

Where her political orientation comes into play is the topics that she chooses. The voter suppression in GA is an issue of great concern to Democrats. She has covered it extensively recently, even the skeptic in me is pretty convinced what she is presenting is factual(and very unfortunate). She may speculate some on motives, but there hasn't been any actions by Brian Kemp that would indicate his motives are anything other than partisan.

This is vastly different than Fox&Friends/Hannity/Ingraham parroting Trump talking points whether they are true or not.

Would you mind highlighting the points you are aware of regarding the GA voter suppression? A few bullet points would be great as I've heard different things, but only long winded articles I'd rather not spend too much time reading.

So you don't know what Maddow is presenting, but you know it is wrong?