Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[IllMagic04]

Hang on. lol.

No one said they dislike Young.

But clearly Young + a first round pick is different than just Young. Right?

So the measure of “like the best” as you put it becomes important. How close was it for them?

What Im saying is you take the player you like the best. A protected future first aint making me take my 2nd fav prospect that high. Would you have traded the 6th pick to lets say the Cavs for their pick and a future top 10 protected pick? I know I wouldnt.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using RealGM mobile app

You’re generalizing and pushing opinion as a one true strategy.

These things must be treated on a case by case basis.

Look at last year for Orlando. We kept our pick and did not make a trade. Clearly Isaac was our #1 guy among those available. But if someone offered DSjr + a 2018 first rounder for Isaac I believe we would be taken it. The margins on their grades are very thin for me. Flip a coin and I’m happy with either. If one includes an extra pick then there you go.

But two names went off the board between JI and DSjr. I would NOT have made that deal for Lauri or Frank.

Point being, this is entirely player specific. You can’t inset arbitrary draft positions. It’s about your grade on the players involved and that changes from one evaluator (GM, scout, coach or fan) to the next.

We have absolutely no idea whatsoever how Atlanta felt about Doncic or Orlando felt about Young or Doncic. We can’t make any conclusions.

No we wouldnt have. Have you seen how long Issacs arms are? That was going to be the pick. But fair point. I still think you gotta call the Grizz and leak it to at least try to break up the trade.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using RealGM mobile app

[MagicFan101]

What Im saying is you take the player you like the best. A protected future first aint making me take my 2nd fav prospect that high. Would you have traded the 6th pick to lets say the Cavs for their pick and a future top 10 protected pick? I know I wouldnt.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using RealGM mobile app

You’re generalizing and pushing opinion as a one true strategy.

These things must be treated on a case by case basis.

Look at last year for Orlando. We kept our pick and did not make a trade. Clearly Isaac was our #1 guy among those available. But if someone offered DSjr + a 2018 first rounder for Isaac I believe we would be taken it. The margins on their grades are very thin for me. Flip a coin and I’m happy with either. If one includes an extra pick then there you go.

But two names went off the board between JI and DSjr. I would NOT have made that deal for Lauri or Frank.

Point being, this is entirely player specific. You can’t inset arbitrary draft positions. It’s about your grade on the players involved and that changes from one evaluator (GM, scout, coach or fan) to the next.

We have absolutely no idea whatsoever how Atlanta felt about Doncic or Orlando felt about Young or Doncic. We can’t make any conclusions.

No we wouldnt have. Have you seen how long Issacs arms are? That was going to be the pick. But fair point. I still think you gotta call the Grizz and leak it to at least try to break up the trade.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using RealGM mobile app

How do you know we didn’t make that call? We very well could have had a deal in place with Memphis should “our guy” be available. We just don’t know.

How do you know Orlando preferred Young over Bamba? In your own words, you don’t want to make a deal for someone you value less. Just because someone else took him higher doesn’t mean Orlando would have.

We just don’t know about names ahead of Bamba.

If you want to criticize or analyze or debate Bamba versus names we passed on then that is fair game. But I believe that story was beaten to death in many other threads.

[OrlChamps2030]

I don’t think anyone wants the best “specialty” shooter in the lottery.

People wanted skilled scorers/shooters. When you have guys that are still struggling to handle the ball at a NBA wing caliber level I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect those same guys to eventually be your go to guy on offense.

Look at Tatum year 1 vs Aaron Gordon year 4


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Again, it’s cute to compare Tatum to Gordon and say we made poor draft choices.

But Tatum was never available when Orlando was on the clock. Without reach late into the draft and picking a surprise passed on by everyone, show me a real candidate who we passed on in recent years who would have changed our fortunes.

Maybe DSjr over Isaac? But both show a lot of promise while still having a lot of question marks. Hard to make that claim already.

Other than that ... it just doesn’t exist.

The only argument you can make is we should have been more aggressive in moving up in the draft but you have to find a willing trade partner. ... or that we should have tanked harder to not need such a deal.

Come on.. you skipped right over my point. I didn’t talk about drafting Tatum over AG. I was saying innate scoring ability cannot be learned other than in rare cases.

Year 1 of Tatum versus Year 4 of AG

Tatum came in looking WAY more skilled than a project offensive player like AG. We’re in year 4 of AG being a professional basketball player and we’re hoping he can eventually beat big men off the dribble..

[IllMagic04]

You’re generalizing and pushing opinion as a one true strategy.

These things must be treated on a case by case basis.

Look at last year for Orlando. We kept our pick and did not make a trade. Clearly Isaac was our #1 guy among those available. But if someone offered DSjr + a 2018 first rounder for Isaac I believe we would be taken it. The margins on their grades are very thin for me. Flip a coin and I’m happy with either. If one includes an extra pick then there you go.

But two names went off the board between JI and DSjr. I would NOT have made that deal for Lauri or Frank.

Point being, this is entirely player specific. You can’t inset arbitrary draft positions. It’s about your grade on the players involved and that changes from one evaluator (GM, scout, coach or fan) to the next.

We have absolutely no idea whatsoever how Atlanta felt about Doncic or Orlando felt about Young or Doncic. We can’t make any conclusions.

No we wouldnt have. Have you seen how long Issacs arms are? That was going to be the pick. But fair point. I still think you gotta call the Grizz and leak it to at least try to break up the trade.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using RealGM mobile app

How do you know we didn’t make that call? We very well could have had a deal in place with Memphis should “our guy” be available. We just don’t know.

How do you know Orlando preferred Young over Bamba? In your own words, you don’t want to make a deal for someone you value less. Just because someone else took him higher doesn’t mean Orlando would have.

We just don’t know about names ahead of Bamba.

If you want to criticize or analyze or debate Bamba versus names we passed on then that is fair game. But I believe that story was beaten to death in many other threads.

Ita all speculation.. thats the name of the thread. Lol. What Im saying is you call AND leak that you called the second that ATL/DAL trade was leaked. We knew the day before the draft. That could be enough to make ATL back out of the trade. Thats all Im saying. I feel pretty coffident looking at Bambas arms that we valued him over Young. Putting the Young thing aside. Are you happy with our front office so far?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using RealGM mobile app

[AddiFB]

If we finish this season at, just below or just above 30 games, I think it would be fair the league gives us +15 games in handicap to start the 19-20 season. Just mark it with an asterisk or something in the standings, I don't care.

[MagicFan101]

I don’t think anyone wants the best “specialty” shooter in the lottery.

People wanted skilled scorers/shooters. When you have guys that are still struggling to handle the ball at a NBA wing caliber level I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect those same guys to eventually be your go to guy on offense.

Look at Tatum year 1 vs Aaron Gordon year 4


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Again, it’s cute to compare Tatum to Gordon and say we made poor draft choices.

But Tatum was never available when Orlando was on the clock. Without reach late into the draft and picking a surprise passed on by everyone, show me a real candidate who we passed on in recent years who would have changed our fortunes.

Maybe DSjr over Isaac? But both show a lot of promise while still having a lot of question marks. Hard to make that claim already.

Other than that ... it just doesn’t exist.

The only argument you can make is we should have been more aggressive in moving up in the draft but you have to find a willing trade partner. ... or that we should have tanked harder to not need such a deal.

Come on.. you skipped right over my point. I didn’t talk about drafting Tatum over AG. I was saying innate scoring ability cannot be learned other than in rare cases.

Year 1 of Tatum versus Year 4 of AG

Tatum came in looking WAY more skilled than a project offensive player like AG. We’re in year 4 of AG being a professional basketball player and we’re hoping he can eventually beat big men off the dribble..

Yes, and that’s why Tatum was the #3 pick. We haven’t had a top 3 pick since Dipo.

Is it a surprise that players taken higher turned out better than players taken lower?

Everyone agrees you want skilled players when you can find them but you can only go by what is available that given year at that given pick. Look at the names taken after AG. There wasn’t a Tatum available!!

Maybe someone rises up and makes us regrets the Isaac or Bamba pick. The jury is out there. But AG was the right choice that year.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Joins Curry and Embiid on Team UA.

[YosemiteSam]

Something I've been noticing in a lot of the season preview articles and podcasts is that while Bamba was a hot name in the pre-draft process he is merely an afterthought among non-Magic related outlets when they discuss impact rookies. I wonder if that is because he is seen as a "project" and his value is seen as deferred, or because the Orlando Magic "cloak of irrelevancy" has settled over him?

[Knightro]

Something I've been noticing in a lot of the season preview articles and podcasts is that while Bamba was a hot name in the pre-draft process he is merely an afterthought among non-Magic related outlets when they discuss impact rookies. I wonder if that is because he is seen as a "project" and his value is seen as deferred, or because the Orlando Magic "cloak of irrelevancy" has settled over him?

I think it's mainly because he's doesn't appear to be set for as much playing time as Ayton, Doncic and Young.

All three of those guys are going to start and play a TON for their respective teams. Bamba, at best, is only going to see like 20 MPG the first few month of his career unless Vucevic gets injured.

[BadMofoPimp]

I don’t think anyone wants the best “specialty” shooter in the lottery.

People wanted skilled scorers/shooters. When you have guys that are still struggling to handle the ball at a NBA wing caliber level I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect those same guys to eventually be your go to guy on offense.

Look at Tatum year 1 vs Aaron Gordon year 4


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Again, it’s cute to compare Tatum to Gordon and say we made poor draft choices.

But Tatum was never available when Orlando was on the clock. Without reach late into the draft and picking a surprise passed on by everyone, show me a real candidate who we passed on in recent years who would have changed our fortunes.

Maybe DSjr over Isaac? But both show a lot of promise while still having a lot of question marks. Hard to make that claim already.

Other than that ... it just doesn’t exist.

The only argument you can make is we should have been more aggressive in moving up in the draft but you have to find a willing trade partner. ... or that we should have tanked harder to not need such a deal.

Come on.. you skipped right over my point. I didn’t talk about drafting Tatum over AG. I was saying innate scoring ability cannot be learned other than in rare cases.

Year 1 of Tatum versus Year 4 of AG

Tatum came in looking WAY more skilled than a project offensive player like AG. We’re in year 4 of AG being a professional basketball player and we’re hoping he can eventually beat big men off the dribble..

That is probably the reason why AG didn't get a Max contract, but just a starters level contract.

[BadMofoPimp]

Something I've been noticing in a lot of the season preview articles and podcasts is that while Bamba was a hot name in the pre-draft process he is merely an afterthought among non-Magic related outlets when they discuss impact rookies. I wonder if that is because he is seen as a "project" and his value is seen as deferred, or because the Orlando Magic "cloak of irrelevancy" has settled over him?

I think it's mainly because he's doesn't appear to be set for as much playing time as Ayton, Doncic and Young.

All three of those guys are going to start and play a TON for their respective teams. Bamba, at best, is only going to see like 20 MPG the first few month of his career unless Vucevic gets injured.

In addition, Bamba is the most raw of them.

[Optimus_Steel]

Something I've been noticing in a lot of the season preview articles and podcasts is that while Bamba was a hot name in the pre-draft process he is merely an afterthought among non-Magic related outlets when they discuss impact rookies. I wonder if that is because he is seen as a "project" and his value is seen as deferred, or because the Orlando Magic "cloak of irrelevancy" has settled over him?

I think it's mainly because he's doesn't appear to be set for as much playing time as Ayton, Doncic and Young.

All three of those guys are going to start and play a TON for their respective teams. Bamba, at best, is only going to see like 20 MPG the first few month of his career unless Vucevic gets injured.

In addition, Bamba is the most raw of them.

Bamba doesn't have the hype, he wasn't putting up gigantic numbers in college.

[pepe1991]

I'll send UA email to give Mo Bamba shoes name Bo Mamba

[Optimus_Steel]

I'll send UA email to give Mo Bamba shoes name Bo Mamba

He does have a super marketable name.

[drsd]

Something I've been noticing in a lot of the season preview articles and podcasts is that while Bamba was a hot name in the pre-draft process he is merely an afterthought among non-Magic related outlets when they discuss impact rookies. I wonder if that is because he is seen as a "project" and his value is seen as deferred, or because the Orlando Magic "cloak of irrelevancy" has settled over him?

Vučević could average 35+ mpg. Bamba will not see a great deal of court time early in the season, unless there is an injury to Vučević, Gordon or Isaac.

..

[OrlChamps2030]

Something I've been noticing in a lot of the season preview articles and podcasts is that while Bamba was a hot name in the pre-draft process he is merely an afterthought among non-Magic related outlets when they discuss impact rookies. I wonder if that is because he is seen as a "project" and his value is seen as deferred, or because the Orlando Magic "cloak of irrelevancy" has settled over him?

Vučević could average 35+ mpg. Bamba will not see a great deal of court time early in the season, unless there is an injury to Vučević, Gordon or Isaac.

..

Pathetic

[Skin]

I think Bamba was probably #3 on WeHam's board... Possibly #2. All I know is they didn't expect him to be there at 6 and must have jumped for joy like 6 year old little girls when we got him.

I agree with tanking hard, but I think in the last 2 years, we have gotten lucky "enough". WeHam got who they wanted without having to move up to get them.

Our new core building blocks are Isaac and Bamba. Everyone else is window dressing tbh. I think they like Gordon and are interested to see how he meshes, but if it doesn't work really well, I can easily see Gordon being traded. I hope it does work out because I'm such a fan of AG, but I'd be fooling myself if I called him a WeHam guy.

[Skin]

I don’t think anyone wants the best “specialty” shooter in the lottery.

People wanted skilled scorers/shooters. When you have guys that are still struggling to handle the ball at a NBA wing caliber level I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect those same guys to eventually be your go to guy on offense.

Look at Tatum year 1 vs Aaron Gordon year 4


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Ball handling is totally different. I agree... by the time they are lottery prospects, it's too late to drastically improve ball handling. You have to already have a strong foundation and then maybe you can improve it some, but ball handling is basically developed even before high school.

Ball handling is the sexiest thing out there. If a player has an elite handle, I easily overlook other flaws that I think could be improved with practice and development. But if you don't have it... eh... it's the biggest limitation to a player's potential, imo.

Ball handling... not shooting or passing... is what made me a fan of Trae Young. It made me forgive his other flaws...like defense.

[Knightro]

Vučević could average 35+ mpg. Bamba will not see a great deal of court time early in the season, unless there is an injury to Vučević, Gordon or Isaac.

I’m guessing 28-32 MPG for Vuc and 16-20 MPG for Bamba.

Mo is pretty firmly set as the backup C. Don’t see him losing minutes unless he’s just awful.