Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank

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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#81 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:39 pm

sca wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Mirotic is better, but I don’t think he’s 50+ spots better than Morris is. I’d take Morris over Aminu though, for sure.

Saw some guys at the back end of that top 100 that I think Morris is better than.

Mirotic is light years ahead of Morris. They’re not even close.


“Light-years” is overstating things. He’s moderately better. I’d rather have Mirotic and think he’s clearly better but it doesn’t seem to be a huge advantage. Again, 50+ spots separating the two doesn’t seem right.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#82 » by homecourtloss » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:40 pm

cl2117 wrote:
Jon1798 wrote:Mirotic is better in every single tangible statistical category. That’s what everyone sees. That is a wide margin.

Yes but by no means is it massive gulf between the two in any one area. I've said from the start that Mirotic is the better player, but people in this thread trying to make it out like we are comparing Morris to AD and not Mirotic.


Go to the player comparison board, post this comp and a poll, and see what happens. The gulf is massive.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#83 » by Jon1798 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:50 pm

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:
sca wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Mirotic is better, but I don’t think he’s 50+ spots better than Morris is. I’d take Morris over Aminu though, for sure.

Saw some guys at the back end of that top 100 that I think Morris is better than.

Mirotic is light years ahead of Morris. They’re not even close.


“Light-years” is overstating things. He’s moderately better. I’d rather have Mirotic and think he’s clearly better but it doesn’t seem to be a huge advantage. Again, 50+ spots separating the two doesn’t seem right.


He’s bigger, more versatile defender(IMO), better outside shooter, more efficient scorer, passer, rebounder, rim protector, etc. Morris per of 14.5 vs Mirotic’s 18.7 is the difference between being below average and being well above average. Mirotic is the third best player on one of the better teams in the league. Which his ranking reflects.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#84 » by sca » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:02 pm

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:
sca wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Mirotic is better, but I don’t think he’s 50+ spots better than Morris is. I’d take Morris over Aminu though, for sure.

Saw some guys at the back end of that top 100 that I think Morris is better than.

Mirotic is light years ahead of Morris. They’re not even close.


“Light-years” is overstating things. He’s moderately better. I’d rather have Mirotic and think he’s clearly better but it doesn’t seem to be a huge advantage. Again, 50+ spots separating the two doesn’t seem right.

PER

Career
Morris: 13.1
Mirotic: 16.6

Last year
Morris: 14.5
Mirotic: 18.7

Verdict: Mirotic has always been an above-average player and continues to improve. Morris has never had a season above 15 PER despite being an offensive player.

TS% (USG%)

Career
Morris: .525 (19.7)
Mirotic: .561 (21.7)

Last year
Morris: .541 (23.0)
Mirotic: .577 (23.4)

Verdict: Mirotic, despite having a higher usage than Morris, has always been a more efficient player than him, whose efficiency is/was very mediocre.

WS/48

Career
Morris: .087
Mirotic: .129

Last year
Morris: .108
Mirotic: .128

Verdict: Another impact stat where Mirotic is unquestionably better, and it shows that Morris is just a tad above average (.100).

On / off +/-

Career
Morris: +0.2
Mirotic: +9.5

Last year
Morris: +0.2
Mirotic: +6.0

Verdict: This is where Mirotic's impact dwarfs Morris'. He's always made his teams play better while Morris has been a non-factor. The Pelicans were 28-24 without him last year and 20-10 with him. Even the Bulls were 14-11 with him... Meanwhile the Celtics were 34-20 with Morris and 21-7 without him.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#85 » by bon » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:20 pm

RakimAbdulJabar wrote:
bon wrote:
RakimAbdulJabar wrote:I wouldn't take him ahead of Mirotic, but there are definitely some players he deserved to be ahead of.

I'd take Morris ahead of all the below players from the list

Fournier at 99

Winslow at 96

Fultz at 93

Pope at 92

Brogdon at 90

Roberson at 78

VanVleet at 74

Ball at 62

And if it's the playoffs I'm taking him ahead of Collison too

Why is Doncic at 63 without a single regular season game under his belt

Covington at 49 is a joke

Eric Gordon, Aaron Gordon and Gordon Hayward at 42, 41 and 40 feels like the writer just started going with names that popped into his head one after another.

Porter Jr at 38 is a joke

Beal ahead of Jaylen Brown? No thanks

Lowry ahead of Mitchell and Gobert? No thanks


Fultz and Doncic are your only legitimate gripes here and that's only because they haven't played any meaningful minutes so far.


I’m not going to get into why I think some of those rankings are ridiculous but let’s just look at one of them since you’re a Raptors fan.

Are you telling me you’d take Lowry ahead of Mitchell or Gobert? If those 3 are in a draft based on what we’ve seen to this point in their careers and a GM takes Lowry ahead of either of those guys he should lose his job immediately

For 1 season or long term? I think that matters a lot
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#86 » by RakimAbdulJabar » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:54 pm

bon wrote:
RakimAbdulJabar wrote:
bon wrote:
Fultz and Doncic are your only legitimate gripes here and that's only because they haven't played any meaningful minutes so far.


I’m not going to get into why I think some of those rankings are ridiculous but let’s just look at one of them since you’re a Raptors fan.

Are you telling me you’d take Lowry ahead of Mitchell or Gobert? If those 3 are in a draft based on what we’ve seen to this point in their careers and a GM takes Lowry ahead of either of those guys he should lose his job immediately

For 1 season or long term? I think that matters a lot


My choice would be the same regardless
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#87 » by RakimAbdulJabar » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:59 pm

sca wrote:
RakimAbdulJabar wrote:I wouldn't take him ahead of Mirotic, but there are definitely some players he deserved to be ahead of.

I'd take Morris ahead of all the below players from the list

Fournier at 99

Winslow at 96

Fultz at 93

Pope at 92

Brogdon at 90

Roberson at 78

VanVleet at 74

Ball at 62

And if it's the playoffs I'm taking him ahead of Collison too

Why is Doncic at 63 without a single regular season game under his belt

Covington at 49 is a joke

Eric Gordon, Aaron Gordon and Gordon Hayward at 42, 41 and 40 feels like the writer just started going with names that popped into his head one after another.

Porter Jr at 38 is a joke

Beal ahead of Jaylen Brown? No thanks

Lowry ahead of Mitchell and Gobert? No thanks

No offense but your takes are garbage, man. Beal is vastly superior to Jaylen Brown, who’s nice and probably has all-star potential but not even close to the level Beal is at. He’s never lead a team like Beal has.

You realize that Morris is a one dimensional guy with no above average skill beyond volume scoring, right? At least Fournier is a versatile offensive plyayer with some playmaking skills (not to mention a better scorer than him).

Winslow is debatable, but he’s much easier to fit on a roster due to his versatility defensively.

Fultz is projected to play better than last year. Only time will tell how he’s going to play but it’s not a travesty to include him in this list over Morris.

Pope is a decent starter and was the better player back when they were both at Pistons.

Brogdon is debatable, but I’d still take him over Morris.

Roberson is an amazing defender who raises the floor of his team immediately. There’s no way he’s not a better player than Morris.

VanVleet is twice the player Morris is.

Ball is a very promising all-around player and definitely better than a one trick pony like Morris.


You think my opinion is garbage? That’s funny because I have zero respect for yours considering what you just wrote. Beal has lead a team and Brown isn’t even close to his level? Lol good stuff man, I’m not going to waste my time with the other comments, have a nice day
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#88 » by Soulcatcher33 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:04 pm

Once Hayward gets his legs under him, Morris is probably going to be sitting on the bench and playing about 22mpg. He's clearly not a top 100 player in the league I'd say.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#89 » by RakimAbdulJabar » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:10 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
sca wrote:
RakimAbdulJabar wrote:I wouldn't take him ahead of Mirotic, but there are definitely some players he deserved to be ahead of.

I'd take Morris ahead of all the below players from the list

Fournier at 99
Winslow at 96
Fultz at 93
Pope at 92
Brogdon at 90
Roberson at 78
VanVleet at 74
Ball at 62
And if it's the playoffs I'm taking him ahead of Collison too

Why is Doncic at 63 without a single regular season game under his belt

Covington at 49 is a joke

Eric Gordon, Aaron Gordon and Gordon Hayward at 42, 41 and 40 feels like the writer just started going with names that popped into his head one after another.

Porter Jr at 38 is a joke

Beal ahead of Jaylen Brown? No thanks

Lowry ahead of Mitchell and Gobert? No thanks


No offense but your takes are garbage, man. Beal is vastly superior to Jaylen Brown, who’s nice and probably has all-star potential but not even close to the level Beal is at. He’s never lead a team like Beal has.

You realize that Morris is a one dimensional guy with no above average skill beyond volume scoring, right? At least Fournier is a versatile offensive plyayer with some playmaking skills (not to mention a better scorer than him).

Winslow is debatable, but he’s much easier to fit on a roster due to his versatility defensively.

Fultz is projected to play better than last year. Only time will tell how he’s going to play but it’s not a travesty to include him in this list over Morris.

Pope is a decent starter and was the better player back when they were both at Pistons.

Brogdon is debatable, but I’d still take him over Morris.

Roberson is an amazing defender who raises the floor of his team immediately. There’s no way he’s not a better player than Morris.

VanVleet is twice the player Morris is.

Ball is a very promising all-around player and definitely better than a one trick pony like Morris.


Good post. The other poster seems to be stuck in 1988 or something. We have statistics that tell us how these players impact the game. Morris has impacted his team negatively or neutrally for years now. As you say, he doesn’t have a SINGLE above average skill even though all together he seems like he should be better.

I’d take ALL of these players over Morris:

Fournier at 99— is a plus offensive player whose defense cancels that out, but at least he’s neutral and csn get hot. Has an above average skill.


Winslow at 96— at least Winslow is a borderline elite defender whi can guard 1-4 who can maybe eventually grow offensively.

Fultz at 93—shooting issues butnhas shown playmaking skills, breakdown with the dribble skills, and defense. By year’s end, I think he’ll go up the list.

Pope at 92—maybe here, but at least Cope is a knockdown shooter on open threes, i.e., one above average skill

Brogdon at 90—Maybe here but has shown signs of being a defender outside of Kidd’s antiquated scheme

Roberson at 78–Is this a joke? Roberson was literally the best perimeter defender in the NBA last year. Yeah, injuries are a concern and his offense, but he makes his team so much better even without any offense. Tske a look at how good the Thunder were last year when he was on court. Literally even the worst GMs would take him over Morris.

VanVleet at 74–is this is a joke? He does everything well and somehow, someway, every time he comes on court, the Raps go on runs. I think he’s underrated at 74. Literally nobody would tske Morris over him.

Ball at 62shooting issues, but he was a plus player via DEFENSE ALONE. He literally had one of the best rookie PG defensive years in NBA history last year. Sees the court, can make plays, switch 1-4 in small ball. He’s a future all star easily with a jump shot.


And if it's the playoffs I'm taking him ahead of Collison too—No, not really.

Why is Doncic at 63 without a single regular season game under his belt—can see the argument here, but Donic will be top 50 or higher after this year. His floor -25% is at least as high as Morris’s ceiling.


Covington at 49 is a joke—top two perimeter defender in the NBA, can knock down threes. It’s a an absolute joke you would take Morris over him. :lol: :lol:

Eric Gordon, Aaron Gordon and Gordon Hayward at 42, 41 and 40 feels like the writer just started going with names that popped into his head one after another.—all are better than Morris by a lot.

Porter Jr at 38 is a joke—again, defense and versatility.

Beal ahead of Jaylen Brown? No thanks—for the future, I agree, but right now, Beal is better.

Lowry ahead of Mitchell and Gobert? No thanks—Mitchell’s future is promising, but Lowry has made more of an impact for four years straight now and actually finally had a very good playoff run.


I’m not going to waste my time replying to all you wrote because I already have experience communicating with you and don’t really care to waste my time

I’ll just say my list regarding Morris ended at Collison, the other players below that had nothing to do with him, they were clearly comments about their overall ranking.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#90 » by homecourtloss » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:15 pm

RakimAbdulJabar wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:
sca wrote:[/b]
No offense but your takes are garbage, man. Beal is vastly superior to Jaylen Brown, who’s nice and probably has all-star potential but not even close to the level Beal is at. He’s never lead a team like Beal has.

You realize that Morris is a one dimensional guy with no above average skill beyond volume scoring, right? At least Fournier is a versatile offensive plyayer with some playmaking skills (not to mention a better scorer than him).

Winslow is debatable, but he’s much easier to fit on a roster due to his versatility defensively.

Fultz is projected to play better than last year. Only time will tell how he’s going to play but it’s not a travesty to include him in this list over Morris.

Pope is a decent starter and was the better player back when they were both at Pistons.

Brogdon is debatable, but I’d still take him over Morris.

Roberson is an amazing defender who raises the floor of his team immediately. There’s no way he’s not a better player than Morris.

VanVleet is twice the player Morris is.

Ball is a very promising all-around player and definitely better than a one trick pony like Morris.


Good post. The other poster seems to be stuck in 1988 or something. We have statistics that tell us how these players impact the game. Morris has impacted his team negatively or neutrally for years now. As you say, he doesn’t have a SINGLE above average skill even though all together he seems like he should be better.

I’d take ALL of these players over Morris:

Fournier at 99— is a plus offensive player whose defense cancels that out, but at least he’s neutral and csn get hot. Has an above average skill.


Winslow at 96— at least Winslow is a borderline elite defender whi can guard 1-4 who can maybe eventually grow offensively.

Fultz at 93—shooting issues butnhas shown playmaking skills, breakdown with the dribble skills, and defense. By year’s end, I think he’ll go up the list.

Pope at 92—maybe here, but at least Cope is a knockdown shooter on open threes, i.e., one above average skill

Brogdon at 90—Maybe here but has shown signs of being a defender outside of Kidd’s antiquated scheme

Roberson at 78–Is this a joke? Roberson was literally the best perimeter defender in the NBA last year. Yeah, injuries are a concern and his offense, but he makes his team so much better even without any offense. Tske a look at how good the Thunder were last year when he was on court. Literally even the worst GMs would take him over Morris.

VanVleet at 74–is this is a joke? He does everything well and somehow, someway, every time he comes on court, the Raps go on runs. I think he’s underrated at 74. Literally nobody would tske Morris over him.

Ball at 62shooting issues, but he was a plus player via DEFENSE ALONE. He literally had one of the best rookie PG defensive years in NBA history last year. Sees the court, can make plays, switch 1-4 in small ball. He’s a future all star easily with a jump shot.


And if it's the playoffs I'm taking him ahead of Collison too—No, not really.

Why is Doncic at 63 without a single regular season game under his belt—can see the argument here, but Donic will be top 50 or higher after this year. His floor -25% is at least as high as Morris’s ceiling.


Covington at 49 is a joke—top two perimeter defender in the NBA, can knock down threes. It’s a an absolute joke you would take Morris over him. :lol: :lol:

Eric Gordon, Aaron Gordon and Gordon Hayward at 42, 41 and 40 feels like the writer just started going with names that popped into his head one after another.—all are better than Morris by a lot.

Porter Jr at 38 is a joke—again, defense and versatility.

Beal ahead of Jaylen Brown? No thanks—for the future, I agree, but right now, Beal is better.

Lowry ahead of Mitchell and Gobert? No thanks—Mitchell’s future is promising, but Lowry has made more of an impact for four years straight now and actually finally had a very good playoff run.


I’m not going to waste my time replying to all you wrote because I already have experience communicating with you and don’t really care to waste my time

I’ll just say my list regarding Morris ended at Collison, the other players below that had nothing to do with him, they were clearly comments about their overall ranking.


There was nothing clear about i:

“I'd take Morris ahead of all the below players from the list

Fournier at 99
Winslow at 96
Fultz at 93
Pope at 92
Brogdon at 90
Roberson at 78
VanVleet at 74
Ball at 62
And if it's the playoffs I'm taking him ahead of Collison too

Why is Doncic at 63 without a single regular season game under his belt

Covington at 49 is a joke

Eric Gordon, Aaron Gordon and Gordon Hayward at 42, 41 and 40 feels like the writer just started going with names that popped into his head one after another.

Porter Jr at 38 is a joke

Beal ahead of Jaylen Brown? No thanks

Lowry ahead of Mitchell and Gobert? No thanks”

There’s no real clear indication that you had stopped comparing Morris to the players on the list.

In any case, the players you supposedly DID compare are all better, too.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#91 » by Patsfan1081 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:51 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
cl2117 wrote:
Jon1798 wrote:Mirotic is better in every single tangible statistical category. That’s what everyone sees. That is a wide margin.

Yes but by no means is it massive gulf between the two in any one area. I've said from the start that Mirotic is the better player, but people in this thread trying to make it out like we are comparing Morris to AD and not Mirotic.


Go to the player comparison board, post this comp and a poll, and see what happens. The gulf is massive.


:noway: The poll will prob get three replies, neither one moves the needle much. Even if you want to get into it, what is the skill set that Miotic does much better? Honestly I think his defensive is the biggest disparity.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#92 » by Patsfan1081 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:01 pm

Jon1798 wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:
sca wrote:Mirotic is light years ahead of Morris. They’re not even close.


“Light-years” is overstating things. He’s moderately better. I’d rather have Mirotic and think he’s clearly better but it doesn’t seem to be a huge advantage. Again, 50+ spots separating the two doesn’t seem right.


He’s bigger, more versatile defender(IMO), better outside shooter, more efficient scorer, passer, rebounder, rim protector, etc. Morris per of 14.5 vs Mirotic’s 18.7 is the difference between being below average and being well above average. Mirotic is the third best player on one of the better teams in the league. Which his ranking reflects.


Morris had veteran defensive metrics last season. More versatile? Morris guards three positions, how is Miotic more versatile when he's less athletic and has worse feet? I also believe they have the same exact career three point %, they both are average shooters. Morris also has a better career assist % so I'm not sure about the passing. The Hornets aren't one of the better team she in the league, neirther one are starting caliber players, both should be a second or third guy off the bench of a contendor.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#93 » by Jon1798 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:22 pm

Patsfan1081 wrote:
Jon1798 wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:
“Light-years” is overstating things. He’s moderately better. I’d rather have Mirotic and think he’s clearly better but it doesn’t seem to be a huge advantage. Again, 50+ spots separating the two doesn’t seem right.


He’s bigger, more versatile defender(IMO), better outside shooter, more efficient scorer, passer, rebounder, rim protector, etc. Morris per of 14.5 vs Mirotic’s 18.7 is the difference between being below average and being well above average. Mirotic is the third best player on one of the better teams in the league. Which his ranking reflects.


Morris had veteran defensive metrics last season. More versatile? Morris guards three positions, how is Miotic more versatile when he's less athletic and has worse feet? I also believe they have the same exact career three point %, they both are average shooters. Morris also has a better career assist % so I'm not sure about the passing. The Hornets aren't one of the better team she in the league, neirther one are starting caliber players, both should be a second or third guy off the bench of a contendor.


I don’t want to be dismissive, but when you say Mirotic has worse feet, isn’t starting caliber, and call them the Hornets, I don’t know where to go from here. They will be on TV Wednesday. Check them out, and it should become very apparent. Mirotic is a very very good player.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#94 » by ishoy123 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:20 am

Bump for mirotic performance
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#95 » by TheGOATRises007 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:26 am

I just saw this thread.

Morris is a buffoon :lol:

Pipe down. You aren't good enough to question your ranking in rankings.
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#96 » by Wilber85 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:28 am

Mirotic !!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#97 » by Jon1798 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:30 am

Jon1798 wrote:
Patsfan1081 wrote:
Jon1798 wrote:
He’s bigger, more versatile defender(IMO), better outside shooter, more efficient scorer, passer, rebounder, rim protector, etc. Morris per of 14.5 vs Mirotic’s 18.7 is the difference between being below average and being well above average. Mirotic is the third best player on one of the better teams in the league. Which his ranking reflects.


Morris had veteran defensive metrics last season. More versatile? Morris guards three positions, how is Miotic more versatile when he's less athletic and has worse feet? I also believe they have the same exact career three point %, they both are average shooters. Morris also has a better career assist % so I'm not sure about the passing. The Hornets aren't one of the better team she in the league, neirther one are starting caliber players, both should be a second or third guy off the bench of a contendor.


I don’t want to be dismissive, but when you say Mirotic has worse feet, isn’t starting caliber, and call them the Hornets, I don’t know where to go from here. They will be on TV Wednesday. Check them out, and it should become very apparent. Mirotic is a very very good player.


Hopefully everyone got to see Mirotic a bit today
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#98 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:29 pm

Has Morris ever had a 30/10 game?
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#99 » by Unbiased hater » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:43 pm

TheBonzaiEffect wrote:Has Morris ever had a 30/10 game?


He had some good games last year during season when Irving was injured
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Re: Marcus Morris Questions Al-Farouq Aminu’s and Nikola Mirotic's ESPN Top 100 Rank 

Post#100 » by Masterfully » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:45 pm

Aminu is awful. I am a Blazers fan.

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